If Obama were as forceful on Economic Justice issues as he is on Guns, I'd be 100 percent for him

[Armstead]

The forceful advocacy and yesterday's display of righteous indignation and "we won't quit" persistence is a side of President Obama that I would like to see more often on other issues related to Economic Justice.

In my opinion, President Obama could regain the enthusiasm of many disillusioned supporters if he were as justifiably forceful and unambiguous on the liberal/progressive side on other issues -- such as the budget, the need to re-regulate the rich and powerful, restoring the middle class and bringing up the poor, a public health-care system, workers and consumer rights, protection of entitlements, etc.

In addition to his own standing, in a larger sense, I believe that would go a long way towards knocking down the GOP Corporate Machine and building up the base of public support for a liberal populist agenda.

Also, important to note, that although gun control has experienced a setback, Obama is moving the ball forward on that larger goal. And he has been fighting for an actual compromise -- but doing so in a way that reflects the true sense of the word, rather than a surrender.

I hope we see more pof that side of him on other issues.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

1. Agree 100%.

Kicked and Recommended.

[grahamhgreen]

30. +1

[Sheepshank]

2. interesting twist on something that failed in the Senate

Generally so very many on DU jumps all over Obama for not getting something passed.

So the new rule is that he tried harder on this failed bill than on economic issues, proving that he has failed on economic issues? Really? And just how do you know how hard he has or has not been trying...because of what you read in the media?

Fascinating twist on a failed bill. Don't want to lay any blame on Obama for a noble cause, so use it as a bludgeon for other causes. Got it.

[Armstead]

7. You don't get what many of the complaints are about

No one is expecting Obama to work miracles. Washington is such a morass that no one politician or even a movement is going to drain and clean the swamp instantly. It requires a long, slow process.

It also requires compromises and there will always be inevitable defeats and setbacks.

However, the only way that the process can get started and move forward is to have leadership that actively fights for a clear set of goals and principles. And actively challenges and calls out the opponents of positive progress.

My point was that Obama set a clear direction on a set of goals regarding gun control, has forcefully and unambiguously advocated for that, and called on Congress and the rest of the country to move in that direction. While he has been open to negotiation and compromise, he has not deviated or backtracked from those basic goals.

If he applied the same dedication and power to other issues from a progressive position, a lot of us wold give him a lot more credit and leeway, even when specific things don't succeed in the short term.

[Sheepshank]

12. Your wisdom is truly a thing to behold.

You 'get' it all...? And you know exactly what happens in in social vs. economic strategies and policy production. Boy are you smart.

[bvar22]

18. +1 Well delivered. Well deserved.

[Sheepshank]

22. hmmmmmmm.. you deem yourself as the one who "gets it", and I, the asshole doesn't "get it"?

apparently you seem to think your opinion is the one that counts, and when provided with alternative opinions, simply decides that those other opinions don't count and they "don't get it"...got it.

[Armstead]

23. You don't "get it" regarding my perspective just as I don't "get it"regarding yours

Your opinion certainly counts just as much as mine or anyone else's.

Doesn't mean I agree with it or understand why you believe as you do.

My response was not to the content of your opinions, but the snarky, belligerent and dismissive way you express them.

[Sheepshank]

24. You call me an asshole, and also label me as belligerent and snarky.

I'm not sure who is wearing what shoe today.

as for dismissive responses, reading back on your responses to me, not sure what I am given that crown.

whatev.

[Super Iridium]

3. It's easy when 90% of America agrees . . .

Yes, he gets credit for speaking out forcefully for a policy that 90% of Americans agree with, and he's not a completely cowardly, craven, NRA-owned stooge.

But that's not saying too much.

Frankly, I don't see anyone on the national stage with any courage for speaking up on these issues except Elizabeth Warren. I hope she runs in 2016.

[Armstead]

8. Well, she's a been good role model for that so far.

[ProSense]

4. There are

"If Obama were as forceful on Economic Justice issues as he is on Guns, I'd be 100 percent for him"

...some excellent initiatives in the President's budget that should be pushed.

President Obama's agenda will not be advanced by the current Congress.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022694813

[Armstead]

10. I agree that Congress needs a good housecleaning....It's a complex mess in DC

I am simply saying that I would like to see more pushback to the bastids from President Obama to help achieve that.

[1StrongBlackMan]

27. I think ...

There's a difference between the audiences that President Obama is addressing on these issues. In the case of gun control, President Obama can be forceful, especially after Newtown, because the people that he is addressing, the vast majority of the electorate (with the exceptions of the far right and some 2nd amendment democrats) are already on board with the idea of gun control, as an issue to be addressed. His mission, in this regard, is to get and keep that target audience energized until 2014 ... giving us a tool to flip the House.

On the other hand, on social justice (economic justice), the vast majority of the electorate (except those on the Left) are NOT on board with the idea that economic inequities are that much of a problem. In this case, to accomplish his economic agenda, he must flip the House and expand the Senate. To do this, he must (because of gerrymandering) reinforce in the plurality of independent voters and gop voters that poll as seeing the gop as the party, unwilling to compromise, that they are correct ... by showing them doing exactly that, time and again between now and 2014, with the hope that this target audience will either vote Democratic (unlikely), or vote 3rd-party (moderate republican or blue dog democrat), or stay home in 2014.

[grahamhgreen]

31. The majority want much higher taxes on the hoarding class, and an end to the wars and free trade.

[1StrongBlackMan]

32. You do realize that in politics ...

and in the real world, "wants" generally come a step at a time; no matter how mucj the majority wants it.

[LuvNewcastle]

5. K&R

[cthulu2016]

6. Amen!

[geek tragedy]

9. The result was failure. So, while his remarks were gratifying, they really don't change

the political reality in this country, and that is that gun culture is valued more than human life.

[Armstead]

11. Templorary failure -- But seeding the ground for eventual success

That's what matters in the current climate.

[geek tragedy]

14. Sorry, don't see it. Structurally gun nuts are way overrepresented in our political

system and will be for quite some time.

[Armstead]

15. I agree with that

But that's an example of why I am willing to accept setbacks. On most issues there is an entrenched minority -- be it social conservatives or economic elites -- that have been dug in for a long time.

But just as Obama has pushed so that the minority of gun nuts are st least beginning to be overshadowed by a reasonable majority, we need an equal amount of determination and focus on other issues to uproot the other minorities whose power far outweighs their actual size in the overall population.

[hfojvt]

20. I'd rather see him try and fail

than not try and "succeed".

Keeping 85% of the Bush tax cuts and making them permanent is lauded as a "success" because, after all, it passed. Whereas if he had pushed for something actually progressive it never would have passed this Congress, but it would set the stage for 2014. Democrats would be able to say "Republicans voted against a tax cut for the bottom 80%". Now, having made most of the tax cuts permanent, what are Democrats supposed to run on? As the "other party of tax cuts for the rich"?

But the gun issue, unfortunately, is another one of the non-economic issues that convince people in the bottom 80% to vote against Democrats. Instead of fighting hard for the bottom 80% on economic issues, the Democrats only fight hard on social issues and things like guns. Then we try to tell the bottom 80% that we represent them, when the Democratic Party pretty clearly does not.

[uponit7771]

13. I agree, I am still 93% behind him though...other bashers are in the -12% area

[bullwinkle428]

17. Armstead, as I was listening to that very passionate delivery yesterday,

I was thinking how much I would have loved to hear that same emotion while pushing for single payer healthcare, pushing for a crackdown on the banksters, changing our insane trade policies in order to bring back a vibrant and thriving middle class, etc., etc., etc.

I think millions of Americans would have been willing to charge up a fricking hill for him on those issues!

[Armstead]

19. I agree. That passion is what is needed

[treestar]

26. So it does not matter in the least how Congress votes

Just how overpowering you find the President's speech?

What happened to "It's just a speech?" That was the usual reaction to good speeches.

It's so ironic that some people will call the President's supporters starry eyed people with crushes, when in reality, it is the progressives who want someone "forceful" to sweep them off their feet and will be happy with that - whether Congress passes the bill or not!

[Number23]

29. THANK YOU

It's so ironic that some people will call the President's supporters starry eyed people with crushes, when in reality, it is the progressives who want someone "forceful" to sweep them off their feet and will be happy with that - whether Congress passes the bill or not!

I'm just reading this thread with my mouth open. Him being passionate and FAILING is deemed more worthy than him negotiating some or most or any of what's wanted and getting it done. NO DAMN wonder so many here simply adore Dennis Kucinich and his ilk.

This thread explains the disconnect I have with this place better than anything I've seen in a long time.

[bvar22]

21. Well said!

DURec!

[font size=3]A genuine leader is not a searcher for consensus but a molder of consensus.'[/font]
-Rev Martin Luther King Jr.





[font color=firebrick size=3][center]"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone[/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]

[forestpath]

25. I find it a huge disconnect how Obama speaks out on this the same time he

proposes painful cuts in SS, Medicare and heating assistance.

But if he doesn't care about seniors going hungry and cold, or families getting their homes stolen by banks, etc., then to me his speeches about guns ring hollow.

Selective concern is not very reassuring.

[Honeycombe8]

28. Either way, it doesn't seem to matter, does it? The results are the same. nt