Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
79 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Having A Fertilizer Plant In A Residential Area Is Insane. Throw In A Nursing Home... (Original Post) KittyWampus Apr 2013 OP
fuck zoning.....freedom! neverforget Apr 2013 #1
Our own terrorists live among us and we criticize foreign nations for locating operating headquaters kelliekat44 Apr 2013 #55
West is a town of 2,000 people. ag_dude Apr 2013 #2
zoning= keeping industrial activities in areas away from houses where people live. On purpose. KittyWampus Apr 2013 #5
No shit. ag_dude Apr 2013 #10
There ARE residential blocks..look here dixiegrrrrl Apr 2013 #48
I live twenty minutes from there. ag_dude Apr 2013 #49
This is an old town Horse with no Name Apr 2013 #3
Nobody sold the fertilizer plant to West as jobs. ag_dude Apr 2013 #6
The town has been there since the late 1800's n/t Horse with no Name Apr 2013 #7
What's your point? ag_dude Apr 2013 #11
Many times. Horse with no Name Apr 2013 #13
Yes. ag_dude Apr 2013 #15
No...not foolish Horse with no Name Apr 2013 #17
Seriously ag_dude Apr 2013 #19
Got alerted on... Agschmid Apr 2013 #25
5-1 to keep.. X_Digger Apr 2013 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author Horse with no Name Apr 2013 #27
Nowhere? ag_dude Apr 2013 #28
Sure you do Horse with no Name Apr 2013 #30
Sure I what? ag_dude Apr 2013 #31
Kind of all beside the point. Basic COMPETENT planning= not putting houses and fertilizer plants KittyWampus Apr 2013 #18
Good point ag_dude Apr 2013 #22
Is this it? Hissyspit Apr 2013 #33
Yes. ag_dude Apr 2013 #34
People are dead and dying Marrah_G Apr 2013 #4
can't we do both ? politics is often the reason these things happen JI7 Apr 2013 #8
581 people killed in TX back in '47 because of fertilizer. It's not as if this wasn't preventable. KittyWampus Apr 2013 #9
No. Fuck that. Arctic Dave Apr 2013 #29
After reading more this morning, I apologize Marrah_G Apr 2013 #61
Exactly what are the politics of a fertilizer factory explosion? former9thward Apr 2013 #71
No, this is the best time to talk politics. n-t Logical Apr 2013 #35
Rail lines are almost always zoned heavy industry. Demo_Chris Apr 2013 #12
Okay, if there's a pre-existing fertilizer plant= no houses in a fairly large perimeter. KittyWampus Apr 2013 #14
I hear that. Demo_Chris Apr 2013 #16
How old are they? joeglow3 Apr 2013 #69
I used to work in grain elevators, and I always noticed the houses that sat close by in these TwilightGardener Apr 2013 #20
Non-Union plant. JaneyVee Apr 2013 #21
Yeah, if it had only been union... dems_rightnow Apr 2013 #36
agreed x1000000000000 jollyreaper2112 Apr 2013 #23
Not unlike airports... ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #24
It's Texas. Arctic Dave Apr 2013 #32
I bet there was some developer in the mix who was pushing property rights Baitball Blogger Apr 2013 #37
It's not even in the city limits. ag_dude Apr 2013 #38
Are you suggesting there was no government body around at the time to review the development Baitball Blogger Apr 2013 #39
Yes, I am. ag_dude Apr 2013 #40
This sounds like something that is exclusive to Texas. Baitball Blogger Apr 2013 #41
As respectfully as possible ag_dude Apr 2013 #42
You made my case. Baitball Blogger Apr 2013 #43
Huuuurrrrrr....Texas sux AMI RIGHT?....deerrrrrrrp ag_dude Apr 2013 #45
I live in Florida. Any ideas from Texas has made our state worse. Baitball Blogger Apr 2013 #46
Thanks ag_dude Apr 2013 #47
Don't take the animosity too hard. randome Apr 2013 #54
Enjoying yourself? (nt) Paladin Apr 2013 #52
I call crock. Jakes Progress Apr 2013 #62
You mean Libertarianism. Baitball Blogger Apr 2013 #72
Slow? Jakes Progress Apr 2013 #73
I made my point. Once someone resorts to insults it's obvious we've come Baitball Blogger Apr 2013 #74
Your point was a lie. Jakes Progress Apr 2013 #75
What DU poster did I name call? Baitball Blogger Apr 2013 #76
Where did you not make shit up? Jakes Progress Apr 2013 #77
I see what you did there. Baitball Blogger Apr 2013 #78
Nope. You didn't. Jakes Progress Apr 2013 #79
Good for bidness. Crunchy Frog Apr 2013 #44
not only a texas thing--small towns everywhere and cities too dembotoz Apr 2013 #50
or buying a house next to one mikegray Apr 2013 #51
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #53
I have a anhydrous filling station across the street Mnpaul Apr 2013 #63
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #64
Rightfully so Mnpaul Apr 2013 #65
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #67
Look around where you live. Jakes Progress Apr 2013 #56
We should be doing heavy pro-active assessments of all of that. randome Apr 2013 #58
Historic aerial photos and maps show that the plant was there decades before the residences. slackmaster Apr 2013 #57
West was a nice little town. ananda Apr 2013 #59
When are you talking about? ag_dude Apr 2013 #60
yup. freedom Texas style librechik Apr 2013 #66
About the only place free of industrial hazards on this scale are suburbs with residential zoning Gormy Cuss Apr 2013 #68
The homes in the neighborhood were built in the 1960's. Lone_Star_Dem Apr 2013 #70
 

kelliekat44

(7,759 posts)
55. Our own terrorists live among us and we criticize foreign nations for locating operating headquaters
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 09:55 AM
Apr 2013

in civilian neighborhoods. We not only locate dangerous and hazardous operations among civilians we also make sure we dump wastes in poor and minority neighborhoods, to say nothing about who pollutes our waterways.

ag_dude

(562 posts)
2. West is a town of 2,000 people.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:25 AM
Apr 2013

It's a narrow town about two miles from one end to the next.

This isn't Simcity. There's no such thing as a "residential area", it's just a rural farm town similar to hundreds of others.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
5. zoning= keeping industrial activities in areas away from houses where people live. On purpose.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:30 AM
Apr 2013

Partly to prevent stuff like this.

ag_dude

(562 posts)
10. No shit.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:33 AM
Apr 2013

That town was built up the way it is long before it got to the point that zoning would have been effective.

ag_dude

(562 posts)
49. I live twenty minutes from there.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 09:21 AM
Apr 2013

You don't have to describe West to me.

I can post pictures of numerous residential neighborhoods where there isn't detailed zoning.

You should probably point out that the city limits stop at about the bottom of that picture on east side of the rail road.

Horse with no Name

(33,956 posts)
3. This is an old town
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:28 AM
Apr 2013

settled by Czech immigrants.

They sell these plants to towns as jobs.

Then. Deregulation.

It is the perfect storm.

ag_dude

(562 posts)
6. Nobody sold the fertilizer plant to West as jobs.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:30 AM
Apr 2013

The fertilizer plant's been there for at least several decades.

ag_dude

(562 posts)
11. What's your point?
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:34 AM
Apr 2013

You don't "sell plants to towns as jobs" in towns like West. You buy the land and build.

Have you ever been to West?

ag_dude

(562 posts)
15. Yes.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:38 AM
Apr 2013

You do know the office of the plant wasn't even in the city limits right? You're talking about the town like it was some intricately managed urban city. There was no bait and switch de-regulation.

How do you make that "sell these plants to small towns for jobs" foolishness if you know just how small West and West Fertilizer are?

ag_dude

(562 posts)
19. Seriously
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:41 AM
Apr 2013

You are talking about something that has nothing to do with West.

But keep the smug ignorant attitude. It suits you well.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
26. 5-1 to keep..
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:48 AM
Apr 2013

At Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:44 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Seriously
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2697811

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Rude and insulting

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:47 AM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: Personal attack.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Umm, no.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Naw not really.

Response to ag_dude (Reply #19)

ag_dude

(562 posts)
28. Nowhere?
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:53 AM
Apr 2013

How about 20 miles from West?

That's how I know things about the actual subject at hand.

I'm not making vague generalizations about a situation I don't know anything about.

And no, you have no right to call somebody an "ass" after you made those absolutely ignorant comments about the situation.

ag_dude

(562 posts)
31. Sure I what?
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:56 AM
Apr 2013

Our farm is east of Hillsboro.

I've met the Uptmore family before.

How many times do you want to show you don't know what you're talking about?

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
18. Kind of all beside the point. Basic COMPETENT planning= not putting houses and fertilizer plants
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:40 AM
Apr 2013

in any kind of proximity.

Texas had 581 people die due to a fertilizer explosion in 1947. It's not as if this was some sort of surprise it could happen.

ag_dude

(562 posts)
22. Good point
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:43 AM
Apr 2013

What's your plan for the hundreds of rural towns with similar situations?

BTW, Texas wasn't a republican state when that fertilizer plant was built.

ag_dude

(562 posts)
34. Yes.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 08:01 AM
Apr 2013

If you look around the rest of the town, the only other 'large' businesses are gas stations/restaraunts/hotels along the interstate and the high school.

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
4. People are dead and dying
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:29 AM
Apr 2013

It's a horrible, tragic accident.

Perhaps we ought to leave politics out of it, especially for now.

JI7

(89,182 posts)
8. can't we do both ? politics is often the reason these things happen
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:31 AM
Apr 2013

when we could have prevented it . just like the gun control issue.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
9. 581 people killed in TX back in '47 because of fertilizer. It's not as if this wasn't preventable.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:33 AM
Apr 2013

Apr 16, 1947:
Fertilizer explosion kills 581 in Texas


A giant explosion occurs during the loading of fertilizer onto the freighter Grandcamp at a pier in Texas City, Texas, on this day in 1947. Nearly 600 people lost their lives and thousands were injured when the ship was literally blown to bits.

 

Arctic Dave

(13,812 posts)
29. No. Fuck that.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:53 AM
Apr 2013

I went to elementary school within two miles from one. I lived within a blast zone from one.

These things shouldn't be next to anything, much less a neighborhood.

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
61. After reading more this morning, I apologize
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 10:54 AM
Apr 2013

And I'm very sorry about your hometown.

I live in Boston and I didn't want all of you to think on top of the tragedy the victims/town were being piled on.

former9thward

(31,805 posts)
71. Exactly what are the politics of a fertilizer factory explosion?
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 01:45 PM
Apr 2013

Last edited Thu Apr 18, 2013, 02:22 PM - Edit history (1)

Which was there first -- the factory or the homes?

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
14. Okay, if there's a pre-existing fertilizer plant= no houses in a fairly large perimeter.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:37 AM
Apr 2013

If there are pre-existing houses= no fertilizer plant

 

joeglow3

(6,228 posts)
69. How old are they?
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 01:35 PM
Apr 2013

We have a couple plants with houses nearby. However, both are well over 50 years old.

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
20. I used to work in grain elevators, and I always noticed the houses that sat close by in these
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:42 AM
Apr 2013

small midwestern towns. Often right across the street. I was nervous enough working by the silos, hoping the dust-removal systems were working and nothing would spark, but at least I didn't have to live there.

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
24. Not unlike airports...
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:46 AM
Apr 2013

and like airports, they were there before most of the residential facilities were built.

 

Arctic Dave

(13,812 posts)
32. It's Texas.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:56 AM
Apr 2013

Drive through the state and you see this everywhere.

Zoning means jack shit to local government.

Baitball Blogger

(46,576 posts)
37. I bet there was some developer in the mix who was pushing property rights
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 08:28 AM
Apr 2013

when that all happened. And a commission that was easily bought.

ag_dude

(562 posts)
38. It's not even in the city limits.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 08:34 AM
Apr 2013

Perhaps you should investigate what you are talking about before making such blind accusations.

I wish you knew more about the situation so you'd know just how silly you look talking about a zoning commission that could have been bought in West when that facility was built.

Baitball Blogger

(46,576 posts)
39. Are you suggesting there was no government body around at the time to review the development
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 08:38 AM
Apr 2013

plans? Because, that would be even worse!

If not a municipality, then a county board. If not a county board, then a state board.

It's not that complicated.

ag_dude

(562 posts)
40. Yes, I am.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 08:42 AM
Apr 2013

It was well over three decades ago. I know it was there and well established in the early 80s. That's not a town with some zoning board to be bought off, stop making unfounded and ignorant accusations.

I think you'd be absolutely floored to find out just how many small rural towns have a fertilizer yard (it wasn't a factory) right next to or in the middle of town.

Baitball Blogger

(46,576 posts)
41. This sounds like something that is exclusive to Texas.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 08:51 AM
Apr 2013

Even Florida, which has the most deplorable local government process that I have ever witnessed, has a County government which takes up ALL the property that a municipality does not annex into their boundaries. We even have odd situations where county property became enclaves within the city limits. This goes back to the seventies and before then.

So, I repeat. It's an issue that may be exclusive to Texas, and any other state who is too boneheaded to run a competent community development office.

ag_dude

(562 posts)
42. As respectfully as possible
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 08:58 AM
Apr 2013

...I'd suggest you stop making assumptions because you are very very wrong. Frankly, there's a certain level of animosity toward Texas on here that's giving people a false sense of confidence in making such wildly incorrect accusations.

Drive through the grain belt and you will see small rural towns built like this in bulk.

It's an extremely common practice.

Baitball Blogger

(46,576 posts)
43. You made my case.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 09:00 AM
Apr 2013

There is a lot about Texas that should stay in Texas. This is one of them. George Bush is the other.

Baitball Blogger

(46,576 posts)
46. I live in Florida. Any ideas from Texas has made our state worse.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 09:06 AM
Apr 2013

And when Jeb Bush was governor, we had a lot of that crap seeping across the border.

ag_dude

(562 posts)
47. Thanks
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 09:08 AM
Apr 2013

It's nice to see somebody actively bathing in their bigotry rather than trying to pretend you are making your argument on rational grounds.

Good day sir.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
54. Don't take the animosity too hard.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 09:45 AM
Apr 2013

Some of us appreciate the perspective of someone who is practically 'on the scene', so to speak.

Jakes Progress

(11,121 posts)
62. I call crock.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:10 PM
Apr 2013

Jeb started the shit. We got stuck with his "education" plan.

Sure Texas has bush and perry. We also had Barbara Jordan and Molly Ivins. Florida has been where Texans retire when they get tired of all that liberalism in Texas.

(See how productive this kind of shit can be?)

Jakes Progress

(11,121 posts)
73. Slow?
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 05:48 PM
Apr 2013

Hey. Neither Texas nor Florida has much to be proud of right now. And you expect some asshole slime to be our thumping their chests whenever tragedy strikes. You just expect it to come from some place that might have some basis for thinking they had it better. But then here you are.

(Still think this is productive?)

Baitball Blogger

(46,576 posts)
74. I made my point. Once someone resorts to insults it's obvious we've come
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 06:15 PM
Apr 2013

to the end of a productive exchange.

Jakes Progress

(11,121 posts)
75. Your point was a lie.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 06:36 PM
Apr 2013

So you came to the end before you began. It is telling that such a name caller wants to start whining about being called names.

(See how productive and purposeful a post as mean-spirited and prejudiced as yours is?)

Jakes Progress

(11,121 posts)
77. Where did you not make shit up?
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 06:49 PM
Apr 2013

You said that Florida would never allow such an idiocy as letting a fertilizer plant be built in a town - near schools and such.

Try this. Google Florida fertilizer plant. Then map the locations. In the five minutes since my last post, I found four maps of fertilizer plants in Florida with houses all around them. Two had schools within a few hundred yards.

How about an apology?

Baitball Blogger

(46,576 posts)
78. I see what you did there.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 08:21 PM
Apr 2013

What DU Member did I name call? The answer is that I didn't call a member out, yet you folded that into your argument as if it was a given. And now you want an apology because I caught you.

Is this the best that GD has to offer?

Jakes Progress

(11,121 posts)
79. Nope. You didn't.
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 11:00 AM
Apr 2013

Unless you are self-identifiying. I called no more names than you did.

Of course you could just be playing stupid games with words. Suppose I said that you lie, that you can't read, that you are unable to discern reality from you ass. See? By your game, I didn't call you a name. Suppose i said that people who post things like you did are bigots and freeper trolls. See? By your game, I didn't call you a name.

Straight up - if you can do that - you called out Texas for allowing a fertilizer plant in the middle of a town. You said that Florida was way too smart to do that. Then you you crawled into the hole of "he picked on me" whining to avoid admitting that you were either just making shit up or that you just don't know what you are talking about.

So your whining isn't the issue for you to apologize for. You owe an apology to DU because, as I showed you, your initial high handed and self preening post was shit.

But GD offers a lot. Neither you or I are among the best. But you could at least admit your stupid post was stupid. I don't see that coming from you given your back-pedaling and side-stepping. Look. You just popped off. A nice little town had a tragedy. You used it as a means of exorcising some of your prejudice. It was the wrong thing to do. It was not the action of your better angels. But your subsequent need to defend that nastiness is only getting you deeper. Address the issue and stop playing games.

dembotoz

(16,740 posts)
50. not only a texas thing--small towns everywhere and cities too
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 09:26 AM
Apr 2013

things built before urban planning
grandfathered in

hindsight is always 20/20
a lot of people bought chevy vegas
a lot of people bought ford pintos
a lot of people bought yugos

seemed like a good idea at the time

Response to mikegray (Reply #51)

Mnpaul

(3,655 posts)
63. I have a anhydrous filling station across the street
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:37 PM
Apr 2013

from where I live. You rarely smell it. Every once in a while a check valve leaks a the fire dept. checks on it. I am not worried about it at all. Accidents like this must be super rare.

Response to Mnpaul (Reply #63)

Response to Mnpaul (Reply #65)

Jakes Progress

(11,121 posts)
56. Look around where you live.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 09:58 AM
Apr 2013

If you think this is unusual, you are naive. Check out aging natural gas lines, cement plants, refineries, railroad lines that carry hazardous material, sewer gas problems, airports. I'm sure I've missed several.

Unless you live like some hermit, deep in a wilderness, you are at risk too.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
58. We should be doing heavy pro-active assessments of all of that.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 10:01 AM
Apr 2013

A great opportunity for a jobs program.

 

slackmaster

(60,567 posts)
57. Historic aerial photos and maps show that the plant was there decades before the residences.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 09:59 AM
Apr 2013

Try http://www.historicaerials.com. The 1971 topo map shows some residential structures within a mile of the plant. The 1957 map does not.

ananda

(28,783 posts)
59. West was a nice little town.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 10:02 AM
Apr 2013

My relatives used to own and run the dry cleaner's there, back in the day.
I visited them several times to play with my cousins and for family get-togethers.
Of course, they're long gone now; and the town has changed. There wasn't any
big fertilizer company back then either.

ag_dude

(562 posts)
60. When are you talking about?
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 10:19 AM
Apr 2013

That fertilizer and grain yard has been around since at least the early 80s.

It's on the edge of town, perhaps you just didn't see it?

librechik

(30,663 posts)
66. yup. freedom Texas style
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:51 PM
Apr 2013

zoning regulations is just commie bullshit, right? Make everything as easy as possible for the rich, and fuck the poor.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
68. About the only place free of industrial hazards on this scale are suburbs with residential zoning
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 01:25 PM
Apr 2013

Such facilities tend to be either in lower income urban areas or in rural communities. Perhaps the suburbs should share the risk.

Lone_Star_Dem

(28,158 posts)
70. The homes in the neighborhood were built in the 1960's.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 01:37 PM
Apr 2013

I checked the CAD property search. The neighborhood that was adjacent to the plant was built back when Texas was blue. For that matter the plant itself was built back in 1958 when Texas was also blue. For the most part the homes were built in the mid 1960's. I really think this is a case of an old, small town that had little to no zoning when it was developed. Over the years the people who lived there began to feel secure since nothing had ever happened to them in all those years. I'm sure they'll never make that mistake again.

The plant may well have not been complying with safety regulations, but that's a different topic than what you're addressing. The plant and the neighborhood which was adjacent to it were both products of back when Republicans didn't rule/ruin Texas. The explosion at the plant may be a trickle down product of lax standards and greedy owners fuzzing the facts to make the most profits. That won't surprise me in the least if it turns out to be true, and that is a product of the current Republican mindset in Texas.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Having A Fertilizer Plant...