Further gun control failed because of the people, not the NRA.

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Last edited Wed Apr 17, 2013, 11:21 PM - Edit history (1)

I know some want to blame the NRA, including Obama himself, for the failure of new gun control law in the Senate, and they did play a big role, but the bottom line is politicians want to win re-election, so they do what will win them the most votes. They cater to the people they represent on big issues because those people hold their fate. A less cynical view would be that politicians truly care about the views of the people they represent and act accordingly.

Either way, a politician is always aware of his/her political livelihood and longevity. They do answer to the people, for one reason or another.

The NRA helped, but it didn't kill new gun control today, the people did. I think there are a number of reasons for that. I'll abstain from expressing those thoughts for the time being, but I did hear a couple of times today that 90% of Americans want stricter background checks.

That didn't sound right, so I googled and found this, dated today:

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Poll: Ebbing public support for gun background checks

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2013/04/17/politics/senate-gun-vote-nears-background-checks-in-peril

Perhaps helping explain Democrats' problems, an AP-GfK poll this month showed that 49 percent of Americans support stricter gun laws. That was down from 58 percent who said so in January -- a month after the December killings of 20 children and six aides at a Newtown, Conn., elementary school propelled gun violence into a national issue.

Just over half the public -- 52 percent -- expressed disapproval in the new survey of how President Barack Obama has handled gun laws. Weeks after the Newtown slayings, Obama made a call for near universal background checks the heart of his gun control plan.
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The fact is Senators, politicians all, are ever-aware and always mindful of their re-election prospects. The NRA has as much power over congress as congress allows it to have. They weren't acting at the behest of the NRA, they were acting, either for self-preservation or out of a sense of duty, based on the will of the people.

But even if every piece of new gun control had passed the Senate today, the House would have killed it. It's hard to change the Constitution, hard to erode the rights protected by it, and that is as it should be.

Added on edit:

If politicians were acting AGAINST the will of the people they represent on such a huge issue, wouldn't they have committed political suicide today? Do you think they would do that for the NRA?

That doesn't make sense to me. Of course they were acting based on their own political survival. Of course they were. And that means representing, pleasing, or appeasing the majority of those who will vote for them next election. This is politics 101.

[elleng]

1. NRA spreads propaganda,

causing elected officials to 'fear' consequences of their votes. Yes, it is We the People who vote, but NRA beats the drum incessantly.

As to 'eroding' rights protected by the Constitution, that WOULDN'T happen with this law; that's just one of NRA's falsely spread bits of propaganda.

[badtoworse]

43. Who doesn't spread propaganda? What sources of information do you really trust?

[Kingofalldems]

2. Looks like a veiled pro NRA thread

Tiresome.

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5. Does it now? I do have as much right to an opinion as you, don't I? n/t

[upaloopa]

10. So you agree the OP was opinion and not fact.

You come on like some know it all but at least now you admit that it is your opinion.

[Skip Intro]

13. The OP was an observation based on logic and sourced fact.

No amount of angry ranting changes it.

[upaloopa]

16. but not truth

That is one of the lamest gun memes posted here since December. Some how we are supposed to believe there is this block of gun owner voters that all the politicians listen to and therefor no new gun legislation will pass.

And another lame gun meme is that everything gunners post is fact.

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17. please elaborate

[upaloopa]

19. I just did

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25. huh? Where?

[upaloopa]

30. I added it to my post on edit.

Look we have had this back and forth since December. I don't think there is a one of us that hasn't read every gun meme there is because they are repeated over and over.
There is no block of gun owner voters that politicians are afraid of. It is the gun manufacturers that the politicians support.

And every gun meme is not fact.

[laundry_queen]

6. Yep. Same ol'situation. n-notworthmyfuckingtime-t.

[Electric Monk]

8. More than tiresome, it's positively disgusting.

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. Triumphalist shithead bangs pots and pan like an asshole

News at 11.

[Cali_Democrat]

14. Par for the course from the OP

One of our resident conservatives right here on DU

[geomon666]

3. Well maybe after the next mass shooting we'll get it done.

And it will happen again, and again, and again, and again until we finally change things in this country.

[upaloopa]

4. No. They are mindful of who funds their campaigns. Today's vote was in support of gun manufacturers

not gun owners. Gun owners are a minority. The majority supported today's legislation.

Today was a shameful day because of the gun lobby. Don't try to blame it on the will of the people. The will of the people was supported by a majority in the Senate. It was the need to get 60 votes that stopped this from becoming law.

[Electric Monk]

9. They were dancing with them what brung em. (so to speak)

[RBInMaine]

7. With all respect, HORSE HOCKEY. "Eroding rights"?? What a load of utter BS.

[MotherPetrie]

11. Fuck the lying NRA. Fuck guns. And fuck the every-gun-is-sacred misinterpretation of the 2nd amend.

[still_one]

12. First of all the legislation was essentially background checks, nothing else. Second, based on that

A majority, 90% are for this legislation

As far as the NRA is concerned this is just about money and power to them

[Skip Intro]

15. Please share a link for that 90% support. Thanks. n/t

[Electric Monk]

26. How's President Obama speaking today at the White House. That good enough for you?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/president-obamas-remarks-on-failure-of-manchin-toomey-background-check-plan-transcript/2013/04/17/0b3666ba-a7a8-11e2-b029-8fb7e977ef71_story.html

A few minutes ago a minority in the United States Senate decided it wasn't worth it. They blocked common-sense gun reforms, even while these families looked on from the Senate gallery. By now it's well- known that 90 percent of the American people support universal background checks that make it harder for a dangerous person to buy a gun. We're talking about convicted felons, people convicted of domestic violence, people with a severe mental illness.

Ninety percent of Americans support that idea. Most Americans think that's already the law. And a few minutes ago, 90 percent of Democrats in the Senate voted for that idea. But it's not going to happen, because 90 percent of Republicans in the Senate just voted against that idea.

A majority of senators voted yes to protecting more of our citizens with smarter background checks. But by this continuing distortion of Senate rules, a minority was able to block it from moving forward. I'm going to speak plainly and honestly about what's happened here, because the American people are trying to figure out, how can something have 90 percent support and yet not happen?

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29. Link to the poll(s) please. n/t

[Electric Monk]

32. It took me only 2 minutes with google to find. Here you go.

http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2013/apr/04/lee-leffingwell/lee-leffingwell-says-polls-show-90-percent-america/

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38. Lol. Frank Luntz Polling. Post 31 answered the question. n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. Usual shit of the usual gun nut assholes

They're all garbage: every last one of them.

[morningfog]

21. NRA apologia/propaganda. It is the NRA and supporters like you that caused the failure.

[bullwinkle428]

22. Maybe not the best day to do an "end zone dance" on this "victory".

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23. Not a victory dance. Just a politcial obvservation

Last edited Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:24 AM - Edit history (1)

on a policital discussion board.

[frazzled]

24. If polls showed consistently that 90% of Americans supported enhanced background checks

Then the 10% of idiots who opposed it (yes, idiots, because there is no logical reason NOT to support it) could not possibly represent the majority in all 46 of the red states that voted against it.

I know red states are mostly miniscule, like Wyoming and Utah. But it's not mathematically possible. Your argument is utterly ridiculous.

I should say, it's bullshit.

[Skip Intro]

28. Two things.

1 - Where are those 90% polls? You're the second person I've asked. When I googled today the first poll that popped up was the one published today that I link to in the OP.

2 - If politicians were acting AGAINST the will of the people they represent on such a huge issue, wouldn't they have committed political suicide? Do you think they would do that for the NRA?

That doesn't make sense to me. Of course they were acting based on their own political survival. Of course they were. And that means representing, pleasing, or appeasing the majority of those who will vote for them next election. This is politics 101.

[frazzled]

31. Deficient argument

People don't vote on one issue, and they know this. Politicians get their money and support from the NRA and the gun manufacturers. They'll be deprived of support and primaried if they don't comply with the powers that brought them to the dance. It's not about the people.

PS: Poll from February (Quinnipiac)

More than 90 percent of U.S. voters supported background checks for all gun buyers, while much smaller majorities were for stricter gun control laws such as bans on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, said a poll released on Thursday.

(snip)

By a margin of 92 percent to 7 percent, voters supported background checks, the Quinnipiac University telephone poll showed. In households with a gun, 91 percent were in favor, while 8 percent were opposed, Quinnipiac said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/07/us-usa-guns-poll-idUSBRE9160LW20130207

Also, Marist Poll from March, which clocks in at 84% support:

84% of Americans favor background checks for private gun sales and sales at gun
shows. 15% oppose the idea, and 2% are unsure. Even 81% of gun owners
nationally support such a measure.

http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/misc/usapolls/us130304/guns/Complete%20March%2013,%202013%20USA%20McClatchy_Marist%20Poll%20Release%20and%20Tables.pdf

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41. Then I am left to conclude several Senators committed

Last edited Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:08 AM - Edit history (2)

political suicide today at the behest of the NRA?

The poll I posted is titled "Ebbing support for background checks." It shows a sharp drop in support for gun control.

I don't believe any Senator voted to end his/her career by voting against the will of the people they represent, and I have to take the latest poll, the one I posted, to be the most accurate.

You're free to disagree, this is a discussion board.

[jeffrey_pdx]

40. Here you go... it's not quite 90% but pretty damn close in this poll.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/04/16/1202305/-Poll-Americans-still-favor-background-checks-assault-weapons-ban-gun-magazine-capacity-limits

At one point I did see polls that had 90 + % in favor of universal background checks, but I believe that number has gone down a little. Mostly due to the lies the NRA and GOP have been spreading.

One other point.... just because a poll says that x% of people don't support how the president is handling something doesn't mean that x% of people agree with the GOP on it. I heard this bad use of logic during the health care debate over and over. They (the media mostly, and especially hate radio) never take into account all the people who don't think that the president's position isn't progressive enough. I didn't approve of President Obama's handling of reforming health care because I wanted single payer, and I know a lot of other people did too.

[Skip Intro]

44. I'm saying politicians act in their own self-interest when

their political survival is on the line.

Which makes more sense:

- several Senators committed political suicide toddy for not backing stronger background checks?

- they voted on this issue to reflect the views of those who will determine their political fate in the next election?

[Llewlladdwr]

27. Gallup says only 4% of Americans consider guns/gun violence to be the top problem facing the nation.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/161813/few-guns-immigration-nation-top-problems.aspx

You have to balance that against the 90% level of support for background checks. Yeah, a lot of people support them, but not very strongly.

[upaloopa]

34. Of course it is not the top priority. People want their basic needs met first.

And in this economy many people do not have their basic needs met. Having said that, when it comes to gun legislation, the majority support background checks.

[Llewlladdwr]

37. But only 4% care enough to base their voting on it.

For 96% of the people there are eight more important issues than guns/gun control.

Any wonder that so many Senators decided not to take a chance on this legislation?

[upaloopa]

45. I don't buy that. The legislation passed a majority vote. It was right wing blocking

it with their 60 vote requirement just like any other thing Obama wants.

Today's vote has nothing to do with gun owners 4% 90% or anything else.

[Historic NY]

36. Until the next pile of bodies or it hits close to home.........

Showing the result in its entire graphic horror might be a way of getting the message through. People were complaining of the bombing victim pictures.......well perhaps its time to go back to the old crime scene graphic photo era.

[hepkat]

33. Gotta become single issue voters for gun safety

But seriously blaming the people is absurd.

[Skip Intro]

35. What poltician votes against the will of the people he/she represents

on such a huge issue?

Political suicide at the behest of the NRA?

Sorry, I don't buy that.

[hepkat]

42. All of them vote against their voters all the time

They make a calculation about how much this matters to the people. They assume the past is an accurate predictor for the present.

And in the past while majorities have always favored some policies. People do not vote on those issues.

Look at industry vs worker votes.

Look at environmental votes.

Only way to change the calculation is to make them pay.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

39. It failed because the system is broken.

46 senators from the most ass-backward corners of the industrialized world voted, yet again, to stifle any legislation that might bring about progress.

[rrneck]

46. Those 90% polls are probably correct.

But after being polled and discussion began in earnest about what universal background checks would involve and a bunch of the people who wanted background checks realize it would require a registry and said, "You want me to do what?" That's probably when support for it swooned.

Of course people that write laws that regulate things for a living probably have a pretty good idea how the people in their districts will feel about the requirements of those regulations.