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The US really has no place lecturing Venezuela on the need for a recount. (Original Post) KansDem Apr 2013 OP
K&R idwiyo Apr 2013 #1
I know, right?! City Lights Apr 2013 #2
No, our elections are thoroughly fixed, already. Egalitarian Thug Apr 2013 #3
LOL! City Lights Apr 2013 #6
So - the polls indicated Maduro should have won by a huge margin? djean111 Apr 2013 #4
Maduro squandered his margin and was declining fast. nt Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2013 #9
Hilarious, isn't it? sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #5
If Venezuela's system is as good as it's reputed to be, what is the mechanism by Flatulo Apr 2013 #7
Well, I believe Ven's system is better than most. Which makes the right wing claims suspect. sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #8
But, but, the USA is in the election fixing business and always has been Coyotl Apr 2013 #10
Capriles Falsifies Evidence in Order to Claim Fraud in Venezuela’s Elections Catherina Apr 2013 #11
Especially Sr. Recount Kerry! You roody Apr 2013 #12
Yes, the US should keep its big, fat, fascist nose out of it magic59 Apr 2013 #13
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Apr 2013 #14
World Giggles At Our Plight UnrepentantLiberal Apr 2013 #15
Great post! byeya Apr 2013 #17
Amazing Kerry can deliver this dreck with a straight face. nt Puglover Apr 2013 #16
Why not? Mnpaul Apr 2013 #18
But...but...we're the world's foremost authoritarian RW banana republic! Zorra Apr 2013 #19
 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
4. So - the polls indicated Maduro should have won by a huge margin?
Wed Apr 17, 2013, 10:03 AM
Apr 2013

But - he won by a slim margin.
To me, this indicates a problem with the polls, in which case, no reason to question a slim margin, the polls don't matter.
But, again - if it was my election, and the polls pointed to a large margin, but I won with just a slender margin, I would be suspicious of the other side.
If the vote watching was as good as I have heard, why a recount?
And, once I heard that a box had fallen off a truck, on the way to being stored - why would I believe one side over the other in a recount?
Looks like almost all countries are fine with the election, just not the United States and the opposition party.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
5. Hilarious, isn't it?
Wed Apr 17, 2013, 10:17 AM
Apr 2013

Venezuela's Right Wing probable stole votes from Madura with our help and they can't believe, like Karl Rove on election night, that the cheating failed.

 

Flatulo

(5,005 posts)
7. If Venezuela's system is as good as it's reputed to be, what is the mechanism by
Wed Apr 17, 2013, 10:37 AM
Apr 2013

which votes can be stolen?

I know that it is always possible to apply intimidation, vote buying, etc. but once the ballot is cast, there is a paper trail of every vote, and then an audit to make sure that the paper and the electronic records match.

I think the polls are just plain waaaay off, just like ours.

That also why I believe that exit polling is a poor indicator of election fraud.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
8. Well, I believe Ven's system is better than most. Which makes the right wing claims suspect.
Wed Apr 17, 2013, 10:42 AM
Apr 2013

And I agree about exit polling. People can lie to a pollster and that may be part of a strategy to create doubt when their candidate loses, if it is planned. Anything can be corrupted if enough money is spent and people are determined enough.

This country however needs to mind its own business, we are in no position to demand anything regarding elections of all things, in fact our interference only makes the claims from the right MORE suspect. When the US does something our own election fraud, maybe someone might listen to us. Until then they are helping the winners, which I am sure is not the intention. Makes ME wonder how much money we put behind the opposition.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
10. But, but, the USA is in the election fixing business and always has been
Wed Apr 17, 2013, 11:28 AM
Apr 2013

Change is just a promise

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
11. Capriles Falsifies Evidence in Order to Claim Fraud in Venezuela’s Elections
Wed Apr 17, 2013, 11:31 AM
Apr 2013

Capriles Falsifies Evidence in Order to Claim Fraud in Venezuela’s Elections

Maracaibo, April 17th, 2013 (Venezuelanalysis.com) – Opposition leader Henrique Capriles has given falsified evidence to support his claims that there was fraud in Venezuela’s presidential elections on Sunday.

At a press conference on Tuesday, the opposition candidate listed several examples that he claimed were evidence of “irregularities” in the electoral process and in the vote count, and presented a series of slides to national and international media.

However, several of the examples given by Capriles as evidence of fraud are clearly false, as can be seen by consulting the results on the National Electoral Council’s (CNE) website.

As one example, Capriles listed three separate voting centers in which he claimed Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro had gotten much higher results than Hugo Chavez had gotten in the previous presidential elections.

Capriles claimed that this was implausible, since overall Maduro did not get as many total votes as Chavez.

“In one voting center in Yaracuy, Maduro got 1000 percent more votes than Chavez did. How can anyone believe that?” he said.

However, the results from last year’s election show that the three voting centers that Capriles gave as examples were cases in which all the votes from that center had not yet been registered in 2012’s results when the election was called for Chavez, leading to an extremely low vote count from those centers for both candidates.

In the Yaracuy voting center, for example, a total of only 9 votes out of 75 were registered in 2012’s elections, 7 for Hugo Chavez and 2 votes for Henrique Capriles.

However, on Sunday all the votes from this center were registered before the election was called, leading to 73 votes for Nicolas Maduro, and only 6 votes for Henrique Capriles.

The same situation can be seen for the examples Capriles gave in Merida (2012 vs. 2013), and Nueva Esparta (2012 vs. 2013), centers at which there was a very low vote count in 2012.

Given the unusually low vote count in these centers in 2012, the votes for both candidates drastically increases when 2013’s results are compared to 2012.

In the Merida voting center, for example, votes for Capriles also increased by nearly 1000 percent, and were also much higher than the number of votes for Chavez from that center in 2012.

Other examples given by Capriles were also fabricated by manipulating the numbers of different vote tallies.

Capriles claimed that in some cases there were more votes than total voters registered at that voting center. However, the only example provided by Capriles is also false.

Capriles said that at a voting center in the state of Trujillo the number of voters for this center was 536, but that a total of 717 votes were tallied. However, CNE's results for this voting center show only 369 votes were tallied, not 717.

Communications Minister Ernesto Villegas explained during a press conference last night that Capriles had erroneously added together the votes from two separate voting tables, but was using the voter rolls from only one of the two tables.

To counter Capriles claims, government officials have pledged to publish online at PSUV's website all of the actual vote tallies from the thousands of voting centers around the country so that the public can see that the official results line up with the individual vote tallies.

Electoral witnesses from the Capriles campaign presumably signed off on all of the vote tallies, as they would have been present at the voting centers at the closing of the polls on Sunday.

The nature of Venezuela’s electoral system makes the kind of fraud alleged by Capriles nearly impossible. Witnesses from both sides are present at every voting center around the country, and a random hot audit of 54 percent of the votes is conducted at all of the centers in the presence of all witnesses immediately after the polls close.

The paper receipts that each voter deposits in a sealed box are counted to assure that they line up with the tally from the voting machines, and all witnesses sign the tallies to certify that they witnessed the audit.

However, Capriles claimed yesterday that his witnesses were forcibly ejected, often at gunpoint, from nearly 300 voting centers around the country on Sunday.

No evidence was provided for this claim, and no independent reports of this happening were registered by any major media outlets on the day of the elections.

Pro-Chavez political commentator Mario Silva responded to the claim last night by questioning how this could have happened without anyone noticing.

“Do you really believe that hundreds of witnesses could be forcibly removed from the voting centers without anyone saying anything? Why haven’t any of those witnesses made a denunciation or talked to the media?” he said.

Capriles has pledged to turn over all of his “evidence” of fraud to the National Electoral Council for review, and pledges to continue to demand a recount, or that the election be annulled.

The government has reported that 7 people have been killed so far in the violence that erupted around the country after Capriles claimed the elections were fraudulent.

Published on Apr 17th 2013 at 9.03am

This work is licensed under a Attribution Non-commercial No Derivatives Creative Commons license


http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/8665

 

magic59

(429 posts)
13. Yes, the US should keep its big, fat, fascist nose out of it
Wed Apr 17, 2013, 11:39 AM
Apr 2013

and watch, learn what a progressive country really should be like.

 

UnrepentantLiberal

(11,700 posts)
15. World Giggles At Our Plight
Wed Apr 17, 2013, 02:06 PM
Apr 2013

By John Nichols
Madison Capital Times
Nov 14, 2000

-snip-

Fidel Castro's Cuba offered to send "democracy educators'' to help south Floridians organize free and fair elections. Rome's La Republica newspaper simply labeled America's muddled Nov. 7 election "a day worthy of a banana republic.''

-snip-

The idea of African democracy corps being dispatched to the United States has become a favorite subject of speculation on the continent.

The respected Mail & Guardian newspaper, which circulates across English-speaking Africa, began an editorial in this week's edition by observing that "the sight of the 'world's greatest democracy' getting its credentials in a knot over who should be pronounced winner in the United States presidential elections should remind us that friendship is a two-way process. It is a shameful reflection on our continent that, in their hour of need, we were not there beside our American brothers and sisters to help and advise where we could, in the same way as they do when our elections come around.''

Displaying a keen eye for the relative weaknesses of the Republican and Democratic contenders, the Mail & Guardian continued, "We should, no doubt, have established a pan-African Society for the Promotion of Democracy in Primitive Parts, which would have established a friendly rapport with the main political leaders -- using sign language in the case of George W. Bush and reminding Al Gore of the perils of perjury on all possible occasions.

"Before the onset of the contest itself, we should have set up seminars in the main rural centers, where the various models of democracy would have been explained, including the detail that it is 'the people' who are meant to rule and not 'the Electoral College.'

More: http://www.commondreams.org/views/111500-103.htm

Mnpaul

(3,655 posts)
18. Why not?
Wed Apr 17, 2013, 02:23 PM
Apr 2013

He said nothing when there was fraud in his own election. David Cobb of the Green Party was the only one fighting to count all the votes.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
19. But...but...we're the world's foremost authoritarian RW banana republic!
Wed Apr 17, 2013, 02:23 PM
Apr 2013

That should at least give us some cred as a foundation for demanding legitimately elected leftist governments be de-elected.

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