delete

[cthulu2016]

Last edited Tue Apr 16, 2013, 04:29 PM - Edit history (2)

deleted: if it is assumed that the Boston devices were powered by homemade black powder the question would not be apropos.

[blm]

1. IIRC, we have the ability to put taggants in material used for explosives

so they can be traced, but, NRA and their GOP puppets fought even that common sense measure.

[slackmaster]

10. I believe you are thinking of a legislative push to put taggants in ammonium nitrate fertilizer

It wasn't jut the GOP against that - Senators representing agricultural interests, e.g. Tom Harkin of Iowa, were opposed because it would have created onerous recordkeeping requirements and added significantly to the cost of common agricultural chemicals.

The NRA opposed putting taggants in cannister smokeless powders used by reloaders because it might have altered the performance characteristics of the powders, which can be critical in precision shooting. Or dangerous.

[Lint Head]

2. The NRA believes the word arms in the 2nd Amendment to also mean bombs.

[JaneyVee]

3. Don't know if they're easy to get, but they seem easy to make.

Of course the one used in Boston seems more advanced than the shoe & underwear bomber.

[Bay Boy]

5. Or because you can...

...get more gun powder (or whatever was used) into a pressure cooker than your underpants.

[cthulu2016]

7. Probably less advanced, but more effective

I think those would-be plane bombers had military explosives. (Which are often harder to set off)

[rdharma]

4. I doubt commercial or military "explosives" were used in the Boston attack ..... nt

[cthulu2016]

6. I would guess commercial explosives were and military explosives were not

But even if these were made from emptying bullet cartridges it just kicks the question over to ammunition.

And even a fertilizer bomb (which these were much smaller than, but extending the example) needs a high explosive trigger.

I suspect that this was not somebody starting with heaps of charcoal, saltpeter and sulfur.

[hack89]

11. Black powder can make a powerful bomb

put in in a pressure vessel makes it even more powerful.

[rdharma]

13. No. It wasn't smokeless reloading powder.

And it wasn't ANFO.

And it wasn't "foreign terrorism".

[ProgressiveProfessor]

20. So what do you think it was? Black powder?

Docs reported the smell of cordite, which is normally associated with modern propellants.

I don't think we know enough to assume a source yet. What has been released could go just about anywhere. I also presume that there is much more known than is being given to the media.

Note to the conspiracy inclined: Which propellant is IMP harmless speculation...and has no bearing on origin of the device and who made it.

[rdharma]

26. Cordite?

I've smelled a lot of military and commercial explosives. But I've never smelled genuine "cordite". Is that stuff still around?

What reports reported the smell of cordite?

The explosive used was one of a low brisance type. That's apparent by the video evidence.

If the reports were of a "fireworks" type smell, ...... I'd suspect black powder.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

30. That was what the ER doc was quoted as saying

To me that means smokeless powder

[backscatter712]

14. You can buy big cans of gunpowder at your friendly neighborhood gun shop

Getting enough black or smokeless powder to fill up a bomb and make a big boom isn't hard.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

19. Black powder and Pryodex are sold in much smaller quantities than smokeless powders

[backscatter712]

22. How much do you need? I googled, and saw it in 1 lb cans.

I don't think you need more than a few pounds of black powder to create an explosion like the one in Boston yesterday. And one of the online shops I saw will sell it to you by the carton - 25 or 50 pounds!

The stuff just isn't hard to come by.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

23. Black powder or smokeless?

IIRC there are some serious DOT and storage rules for black powder

[backscatter712]

24. Googling again - the federal laws kick in at 50 pounds.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/179/1/BLACK-POWDER

More than enough...

[slackmaster]

8. No, commercial explosives are pretty strictly regulated.

There are many requirements for even a farmer to get blasting explosives - Training, a license, an approved storage facility, etc.

[Eleanors38]

9. If the explosive used in Boston was "black powder," as some think, be aware of...

its constitution:

Potassium nitrate (saltpeter) 75%

Charcoal/carbon 15%

Sulfur 10%

This substance is found in fireworks, caps, some antique/antique-replica arms, and a few industrial applications. The constituent ingredients are common, and have been in use for over a millennium, and in firearms & cannons since the 1300s. Unlike the regulations on TNT and stronger modern substances, there is no law or regulation I know of prohibiting the possession of these 3 ingredients; a finished product like fireworks is regulated at the state & local level. While there is no confirmation as to the explosive used in the bombs, witnesses reported smelling "sulfur." Further, the bilious opaque smoke associated with a "low order" explosions, all point to this ancient explosive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder

[ProgressiveProfessor]

12. This does not appear to be commercial explosives at this time

Certainly not military grade either. My current WAG is smokeless powder

[rdharma]

15. Smokeless powder?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

18. Given that it is in a compression vessel, smokeless would work as well as

black powder.

What most reloaders use for metallic cartridges is called smokeless powder. Again, just my WAG and I expect we will find out soon what kind of explosive agent was used shortly.

[slackmaster]

16. Smokeless is expensive and actually doesn't work as well as black powder for that type of device

It burns at a controlled (albeit progressive) rate. Black powder, when confined, accelerates rapidly.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

17. My WAG is based on the amount of smoke and low level of blast

from the first device. Again, my WAG, but I could see it being black powder too.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. Smokeless is much easier to get on large quantities

IIRC (and its been some years now) you could not get black powder in more than 1 pound quantities. I used to get smokeless power in several 8 pound canisters at a time. I went though a fair amount of them while I was competing.

[slackmaster]

25. That is because of bizarre shipping regulations. BP is regarded as a more hazardous explosive.

Retailers that sell it online or by mail-order have limits - You can't buy less than five pounds or more than 50 in a given order, and the hazmat fee is substantial.

[rdharma]

27. Oh, back off!

The "professor" has dug himself a deep hole. Allow him room to run for the high grass!

[slackmaster]

28. My mission is to inform

[rdharma]

29. Riiiiiight!

And you informed me of WHAT?!!!!

[slackmaster]

33. I informed you that my mission is to inform

HTH

[ProgressiveProfessor]

31. As I said, its my WAG based on what is in the media

Not a lot of investment in it one way or the other.

[rdharma]

32. OK, professor......