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geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
1. Actually, lobbyists are protected as well.
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:00 PM
Apr 2013

"freedom to petition" references them just as much as "freedom of press" references journalists.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
4. I think that meant unpaid citizens. We SHOULD be viewed as lobbyists, but now, unless you are
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:06 PM
Apr 2013

carrying a big suitcase full of money, you can forget about your 'freedom to petition'.

Iow, the Constitution doesn't mention that only those with huge bags of money have the right to petition.

Nice support for Corporate America's messengers though.

Next we'll be hearing claim they have a Constitutional Right to buy Congress and the WH.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
5. Campaign donations and lobbyists are two
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:11 PM
Apr 2013

separate issues.

The constitution protects the good and the bad.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
7. I might quibble
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:21 PM
Apr 2013

I agree that the right to petition for redress is a fundamental right mentioned in the Constitution. (And I often point out, in the original Constitution, not the amended bill of rights). However, it isn't clear that the intention was to petition on behalf of someone else. I'm fairly certain that the bunch of law school graduates that helped write it would have probably seen that as "legal representation". But what it has become is anything but that.

And when you realize that the modern lobbyist actually gets access that general private citizens DON'T get from elected representatives, it really kinda turns that "right" on it's head. They have so many protections from the average citizen actually getting to petition a representative directly (people used to actually show up at the White House expecting to get to speak to the president) that "pay to play" has become virtually the definition. It really makes a mockery of the constitutional right.

Most congress critters have staff that will deal with direct constituent issues. But the chance that the rep will actually HEAR any of that is pretty low.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
8. If one thinks about the act of petitioning the government,
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:22 PM
Apr 2013

someone has to actually do the meeting and pressuring, etc, just as someone has to do the writing and publishing for the press.

The real issue is the "money is free speech" fallacy.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
18. A slight variation though
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 04:42 PM
Apr 2013

The publisher doesn't represent the reader, he works with the authors (journalists). He isn't the gate keeper to information, he is the aggregator.

The lobbyiest/Politician relationship sets up a symbiosis in which the two work with each other, with the specific intent to exclude the citizen. Politicians sell "access", and the lobbyiest works towards acheiving some level of exclusivity of that access.

Publishers don't work to exclude readers, but to include them. Journalists don't work to exclude readers, they work to engage them.

Now grant you, with the commercialization of the press, this may be changing drastically, but they haven't achieved anywhere near the success that the lobbyists have, which is why Rush doesn't really influnce elections much, and the NRA does way more.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
10. The constitution doesn't protect buying/bribing Congress. We are all supposed to have equal access
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:36 PM
Apr 2013

to petition Congress. Clearly we don't. Big Bankers like Jamie Dimon have access to the WH on a pretty regular basis. Progressives petitioning against destroying the environment with the Tar Sands Pipeline otoh are not invited in, they are arrested.

Maybe if they owned some banks they might get an invitation to dinner, like Jamie does??

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
11. Lobbying and campaign donations are separate activities.
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:38 PM
Apr 2013

Campaign donations are governed by the free speech clause, thanks to our lovely supreme court.

Response to Scuba (Original post)

unblock

(51,974 posts)
9. "explicitly", president, representatives and senators are the only actual "professions"
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:22 PM
Apr 2013

in the constitution because those are the only ones for which the constitutution explicitly discussed compensation, which is a key component of "profession".

the press, e.g., is arguably an "activity". it only becomes a "profession" if compensated, and compensation for the press is not discussed in the constitution.

conceivably, "the press" could be strictly a volunteer, part-time activity done by concerned citizens and not a "profession" at all, and this would be perfectly consistent with the constitution. not that that would ever actually come to pass....



if we're going to include activities that are usually compensated, but for which the constitution does not discuss compensation, then military and justices could be added to the list in addition to ones others have mentioned.

also, clergy and lawyer are arguably mentioned (religion, due process), or at least these are as explicit as lobbyist (petition).

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
12. Also, I always felt that it was the duty of journalism to educate the public
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:52 PM
Apr 2013

once they were no longer in school. It's them we should be learning current events from. They have a duty to be thorough in investigating breaking events and ferreting out and reporting the truth and facts to us. Anything else is propaganda, something we were always so critical of the Soviet Union and other one party dictatorships in the past.

1-Old-Man

(2,667 posts)
19. Not exactly true. Members of Congress are protected from arrest when going and coming to work
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 06:32 PM
Apr 2013

and its easy enough for any of them to claim that they work 24 hours a day.

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