Pope Francis approves report bashing US nuns as 'radical feminists'

[geek tragedy]

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world/pope-backs-report-critical-of-us-nuns/story-e6frfkui-1226621146019

POPE Francis has backed a doctrinal report drawn up under his predecessor Benedict XVI that accuses the largest group of nuns in the United States of holding "radical feminist" views, the Vatican says.

The new Pope has "reaffirmed the findings of the assessment and the program of reform" for the Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR), which represents around 45,000 US nuns and is known for its social work, the Vatican said.

...


The report accused LCWR members of "dissent" with Church teachings against homosexuality and said they were pursuing "radical feminist themes".

Men who complain about the threat from 'radical feminists' tend to provide the best evidence regarding the necessity of radical feminism.

[sufrommich]

1. Meet the new boss,same as the old boss.

I love those radical feminist nuns.

[geek tragedy]

3. My wife works with some of these scary

radical feminist nuns on trafficking issues. Liberal, independent women--very scary to the wrong people.

[Cleita]

19. I was practically raised by them. (boarding school)

The order who taught me, even though it was back in the fifties, were very liberal, emancipated women even back then. They got into trouble with the Cardinal of the diocese pretty regularly, yet in the end he had to back down most of the time and give in.

[SidDithers]

2. But he washes people's feet! Their feet!!...nt

Sid

[geek tragedy]

7. He also offers to wash their mouths out with soap

if they use words like "patriarchy" or "civil rights for all."

[BlancheSplanchnik]

25. yep. you want to know how progressive someone really is?

Examine how they treat women.

[CTyankee]

41. Yep, and Francis fails that test.

[hrmjustin]

4. I am so sorry to see that!

[RainDog]

37. He'd already stated that women should not hold political office

Last edited Mon Apr 15, 2013, 04:35 PM - Edit history (1)

before he ever took this job.

EDIT TO ADD - The source of this quote may not be valid. The impetus behind it, however, remains part of church doctrine regarding gendered roles in society as reflected in the church's own institution.

I never expected anything different and it's ludicrous to think this guy will be anything other than what the institution he heads is - a homophobic, women-hating patriarchal vomitorium.

[hrmjustin]

38. He actually said women should not hold office?

Well the luster is coming off him.

[RainDog]

40. Yes. Here's the quote

Last edited Mon Apr 15, 2013, 04:37 PM - Edit history (1)

edit to note this quote, sourced to an Argentinian wire service, may not be correct.

Made before he was ever selected as Pope - and this was quoted here when he took the position.

Francis is on record stating that women are nothing more than the helpers of men, and are themselves unfit for political office. In a speech against Argentina presidential candidate Cristina Kirchner given in 2007, during the electoral campaign, then Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio said:

Women are naturally unfit for political office. Both the natural order and facts show us that the political being par excellence is male; the Scripture shows us that woman has always been the helper of man who thinks and does, but nothing more.

http://www.examiner.com/article/pope-francis-misogyny-homophobia-bigotry

He's a pig.

[hrmjustin]

42. Just horrific!

I really was hoping that he would have been different.

[RainDog]

43. Yes. It is horrific

It's also horrific that women would associate with an institution that views them as lesser human beings.

It's like slaves who supported their own slavery.

[Arugula Latte]

53. Shhh! You'll be called a bigot for pointing that out!

[BrotherIvan]

46. Damn.

I'm rarely speechless, but that quote sort of took my breath away.

[RainDog]

51. 2010 letter - he states gay marriage from Satan

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/cardinal_bergoglio_hits_out_at_same-sex_marriage

He wrote: “In the coming weeks, the Argentine people will face a situation whose outcome can seriously harm the family…At stake is the identity and survival of the family: father, mother and children. At stake are the lives of many children who will be discriminated against in advance, and deprived of their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God. At stake is the total rejection of God’s law engraved in our hearts.”

Cardinal Bergoglio continued: “Let us not be naive: this is not simply a political struggle, but it is an attempt to destroy God’s plan. It is not just a bill (a mere instrument) but a ‘move’ of the father of lies who seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God.”

In both remarks about women and about homosexual rights, he is speaking in a political context.

He was attempting to undermine liberalization in Argentina - in the case of women, he was speaking against a female presidential candidate, to claim it was unnatural for women to hold political (or any of sort of) power.

He's a pig.

[HiPointDem]

50. 'there were media reports' doesn't mean it's true. here's the source linked in the article:

In the Pope’s home country of Argentina, there were media reports that the new Pope, previously the Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, said in 2007 while President Cristina Fernandez was still a candidate, that “women are naturally unfit for political office,” and that “the natural order and facts teach us that man is an excellent politician; Scripture shows us that woman always supports the man who is the thinker and doer, but nothing more than that.”

http://insidecostarica.com/2013/03/14/while-most-of-cr-celebrates-new-pope-one-lawmaker-boycotts-calls-church-misogynist/

[RainDog]

54. He was a political opponent of Kirchner

She called his attitudes "medieval" regarding homosexual marriage. That you can definitely source.

I checked and this quote may not be correct.

So - sure. I'll concede that he may not have made that statement about women. However, his actions at this time say the same thing, and his view of homosexual marriage as upsetting the "natural order" do not give anyone a reason to think he is in any way progressive on issues of sexism or homosexual rights.

The statement claimed it was from an Argentinian news wire.

[HiPointDem]

55. didn't say he didn't say it. saying that 'media reports said' is not a strong proof he said it.

media reports can say lots of things. often they are wrong or actually false.

and i think it's funny how the anti-catholic brigade jumps on any report so they can repeat their 'dead to me' rants, as though the pope wasn't dead to them from jump street just for being pope.

[RainDog]

56. I didn't know there was an anti-catholic brigade

The issue isn't Catholicism.

You hear the same from me regarding the Southern Baptist Church, for instance.

And I have made attempts to note the quote may not be accurately sourced.

I don't think it's funny at all that you find it reasonable to remark about people who dislike homophobic, sexist and racist, in some cases, institutions. This isn't a "dead to me" rant. This is disgust for an institution that thinks it's more important to keep women from positions of power within its own hierarchy than it is to protect children from pedophiles.

That's the evidence we have from this institution as well.

I do think it's entirely reasonable to question whether a quote is accurate or not.

But, again, even if it isn't - the reality is that this is the way the organization is run.

You claim you're on the left - this institution is about as right wing as it gets. But you go right ahead with your claims about people who oppose this and other religious institutions that codify sexism as "god's law."

[HiPointDem]

59. nope, there's an anti-catholic contingent here. not saying you're part of it, just saying it exists.

[Dawson Leery]

5. The RCC will continue to lose enlightened members.

Also, I have no problem with Catholic schools and hospitals closing.

[LuvNewcastle]

6. He did wash some women's feet, so I'm sure he isn't a misogynist.

Maybe he'll come wash my feet to show he isn't a homophobe.

[efhmc]

8. If these women were truly radicals, they would be long gone from that

"church".

[hlthe2b]

9. I think the nuns should break from the Vatican... Given how few priests are left worldwide...

let's see how the Vatican copes with its majority membership (females) leaving as well.

[Cleita]

21. Maybe Catholic women across the board should do this. n/t

[RainDog]

32. I think women should follow the lead of Jimmy Carter

and leave all those religions whose doctrine includes second-class status for women.

[hlthe2b]

34. I'm not going to press my own (non-) beliefs on others...

But, if these Nuns and women members of the Catholic laity have come to the realization that their religion has left them and that dramatically needed change is not in the future "cards" then I see little choice left to them. And, personally, I'd love to see the old corrupt patriarchy within the Vatican left with the remnants of their failures.

[RainDog]

36. I'm stating my opinion

African-Americans had to boycott businesses and institutions that treated them like second class citizens to make any headway - and, of course, racism is still with us, it's just not socially viable outside of small groups.

[joeybee12]

10. If you had any doubts that this new Pope was going to be as big an asshole as the last one...

Those doubts have now been erased.

[geek tragedy]

11. Well, I don't know about that. Benedict was one of the

all-time greats in the Asshole Hall of Fame. Francis will have to earn his way in by doing more than rubber stamping Benedict.

Don't get me wrong--Francis is a homophobic, sexist a-hole, but Benedict was the Michael Jordan of homophobic, sexist, corrupt assholishness.

[joeybee12]

12. Also, Benedict was carrying out John Paul's doings, also...

We forget that because John Paul was so media friendly.

[geek tragedy]

15. Benedict definitely worked off the foundation

built by John Paul II.

[joeybee12]

16. I can't even recall who was before John Paul...I know John Paul I

for a month, but I think is was Paul, because JOon Paul's name came from John and Paul, his two predecessors...I wonder if they were more progressive, if Vatican II and the reforms of the 60's were still going forward.

[geek tragedy]

17. Paul VI. Looked it up.

Pretty much all of them are bad on social issues--as bad as possible.

The difference tends to be whether they place any concern on social justice in terms of economics, or whether they pay it mere lip service. The trendline has been towards lip service.

[Angelonthesidelines]

29. He turned two priests "guilty" of liberation theology

Over to Argentine Fascists who imprisoned and tortured them.
https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/03/14-1
He helped the Fascist purge of unpure to the point of giving babies to appropriate parents.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/03/pope-francis-jorge-bergoglio-argentina-dirty-war.html
But then the Vatican always has supported the fascists since Franco through Argentina.

In the words of Hunter S Thompson
FUCK THE POPE

[leftyladyfrommo]

13. Wow. I hate to hear that.

The nuns in this country should get all the support they need. A lot of them are doing absolutely wonderful things to help the sick and the poor.

I wish they would leave the church behind. Maybe they could just switch over to the Episcopal Church. It's not all that different and they are a whole lot more liberal.

I feel kind of bad about the Catholic Church. I think the faith is beautiful but the church is just awful. I wish there was some way people could keep their faith and just leave the old, archaic male dominated church behind.

Sad.

This new pope kind of gives me the creeps. Just something about him. Not that it matters to anyone else.

[forestpath]

14. Of course he did. He is no different from his predecessor in any real way.

[one_voice]

18. And water is wet...

fire is hot, same ole same ole.

[Initech]

20. I have a cousin who is a nun. I should get her take on this.

[ljm2002]

22. "Men who complain about the threat from 'radical feminists'"...

..."tend to provide the best evidence regarding the necessity of radical feminism."

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes!

Even though this Pope has some characteristics that place him far ahead of the previous Pope in my book, the Catholic Church is a very old-school patriarchal organization promoting a very old-school patriarchal belief system, and I for one say: To Hell with that!

[Stinky The Clown]

23. Good 'ol Frank. He's such a humble man.

Un fucking believable.

Radical feminists, my ass.

New popester, same red shoes.

[BrotherIvan]

24. Where are the people who were screaming any criticism of the Catholic Church

was religion-bashing and some kind of anti-Catholic-racist bigotry? Unfortunately, the article is short on specifics, but it seems the nuns are in hot water because they're not pushing homophobia and anti-science that life begins at conception.

My favorite quote

Mueller thanked the group for its work in "many schools, hospitals, and institutions of support for the poor" in the US, the statement said.

But he also emphasised the need for the group to co-operate with US bishops and said LCWR was legally "under the direction of the Holy See".

So, thanks little ladies for doing all the work, but sit the fuck down and submit to your masters. I too wish they would give these bastards the finger and leave in droves. The church can in no way be defended.

And will anyone now admit the washing of yucky female feet was nothing more than a photo op?

[RainDog]

26. Yes, please

Where are all the women who like this new pope because he's so different?

Where are the women who compared criticism of the church to the KKK?

Where are the women who said it's in their DNA to align with a homophobic institution?

I guess they're silent, as the church tells them to be.

[BrotherIvan]

31. It definitely goes to the heart of the matter and mirrors the questioning

that many Democrats are engaging in on this very board.

It seems that any organization involved in the wielding of power, influence and money is ipso facto corrupt. As a DUer pointed out in the recent Pope Wars, the Church is worth roughly 500 billion (but we'll never know will we?) and if it actually gave a damn about "the poor" (that bone they throw to those who keep the collection plate full) it could end poverty TOMORROW. If the Democrats wanted to save social security, they would fight for raising the cap. Name any issue and the same is true. Those are just promises and flowery rhetoric for the little people, so we will BELIEVE, so we will donate and work to further enrich and consolidate the power of these people who have anything but that on their agenda.

Just as with the presidency, does anyone really believe any more that a liberal, populist reformer could have possibly risen to the highest rank in either of these corrupt institutions? Do you think the very same people who installed Ratzinger would then turn around and elect a true liberal? When it costs nearly a billion dollars to run for the presidency, does anyone think the candidate doesn't have to make deals with the devil? Why are people even surprised? Did you really fall for the marketing?

So the question remains, is reform from within even possible? I ask this in all sincerity as I find it hypocritical to ask people to leave their religious tradition if I'm not willing to leave my long-held affiliations as well. And no, I have not mentioned Republicans because they are so rotten they make themselves sick from the stench.

[RainDog]

35. FDR rose to the occasion in his presidency

He didn't start out with the idea that he was going to strike at the very base of capitalist exploitation until capitalists had so destroyed the nation they fed on, like vultures.

It's possible for a president to do extraordinary things - but we live in a time when fascism continues to gain strength while any concept of social democracy is weakened - by the party that helped to make this nation a little less nasty.

As to the relation between politics and religion - everyone has to live in one nation or another. It's very difficult to emigrate unless you have a job or family elsewhere. So, the analogy isn't one to one.

No one has to be a part of a religious group.

That's a choice.

Everyone has to live under one system of govt. or another.

I've voted for the lesser of two evils all my life. I've never held politicians in any great esteem because I have never been given reason to do so.

I care about issues, not parties. The other viable option in this nation is not an option.

The reason will have such shitty political options is also about the influence of religion in American life. If you can believe the earth is 6000 years old, you can believe it's poor people, not bankers, who are driving this nation into the ground.

[BrotherIvan]

45. Very true.

The reason will have such shitty political options is also about the influence of religion in American life. If you can believe the earth is 6000 years old, you can believe it's poor people, not bankers, who are driving this nation into the ground.

Great point

[RainDog]

47. Women who continue to offer support for the church

Continue to make it seem like a political necessity to cater to the church's homophobic and misogynistic positions.

As political groups, religious institutions hold a lot of power in American life.

The reality is that any woman who associates with such groups is GIVING POWER TO MALES TO OPPRESS everyone.

But it's "bigotry" if you note this reality, according to some here.

[Dawson Leery]

52. Forbid those who work in the field, hold extensive experience

have any say in how things are done.

[TekGryphon]

27. Is this Strike One or Strike Two?

[geek tragedy]

28. Who's the batter? nt

[TekGryphon]

30. Francis, and we're the ref.

[geek tragedy]

33. Well, on male supremacism and homophobia, he

struck out a long time ago.

[trotsky]

58. +1000 n/t

[Zoeisright]

39. But but but ...

I thought he was supposed to be sooooooooo much better than Benedict!!!!

[Arugula Latte]

44. But ... but ... He's so enlightened and all!!

He washed feet!


No, really. Big fucking surprise coming from the corrupt medieval grifting ring known as the Vatican.

[William769]

48. kick & recommended.

[Humanist_Activist]

49. I figured this guy would be just like every other Pope, an asshole who will throw bones to the poor.

And call himself humble!

[Helen Reddy]

57. I got your

radical feminism right here......Pope. Where's Judy Tenuta when we need her?