Howard Dean (Tweet): I May Have to Become an Independent

[ChangeUp106]

Dean just tweeted:

Howard Dean ?@GovHowardDean 24m

If this is true I may have to become an independant. http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-04-10/obamas-budget-rescues-the-pentagon

The liberal backlash continues

[quinnox]

1. Seriously?? wow, if this isn't a joke tweet then

this is a huge wake-up call to Obama and the Democratic party. Or, it should be.

[ChangeUp106]

2. No Joke

Here's the direct link to the tweet: https://twitter.com/GovHowardDean/status/323602323425353728

[ProSense]

4. Dean supports the sequestration.

That is what he is upset about.

I don't think there are too many people who want to keep it.

[dsc]

12. and under Obama we get the domestic spending sequester

and hardly any defense cuts. Dean did support the sequester for one reason and one reason only, he felt, quite obviously completely accurately, that the sequester was the only way we would get cuts in defense spending. This is nothing short of outrageous.

[ProSense]

14. The sequestration

"Dean did support the sequester for one reason and one reason only, he felt, quite obviously completely accurately, that the sequester was the only way we would get cuts in defense spending. This is nothing short of outrageous."

...sucks.

Way to go, America. Meals on Wheels funding cut by sequestration. Seniors fearful.
http://election.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2628227

[dsc]

16. yeah and Obama isn't going to restore that

instead he is going to restore 80% of the defense cuts. You can put lipstick on this pig until the cows come home and give birth to aliens and the pig will still be a pig.

[msongs]

29. oh come on you know obama stood his ground and vetoed the sequester lololol nt

[ProSense]

41. Here:

"You can put lipstick on this pig until the cows come home and give birth to aliens and the pig will still be a pig."

...no cliches needed: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022674502

[cui bono]

122. Just give up already.

There's no defense for Obama's budget and many, many other things he has or has not done. Geez. Take the blinders off already.

[Volaris]

37. My understanding was that Dean only supported the sequestration,

as the only LIKELY way to get the Pentagon budget reduced regarding the current Congress. "Support", to my mind, would be stretching what he said.

[ProSense]

39. Yes,

"My understanding was that Dean only supported the sequestration, as the only LIKELY way to get the Pentagon budget reduced regarding the current Congress. "Support", to my mind, would be stretching what he said."

...he thinks it's the best way to cut defense, but he also doesn't think the impact of the other cuts are going to be as bad as economists are predicting.

What’s your prediction about the sequester’s impact on the economy and the middle class?
I think it’ll be fine. There will be some hardships for some individuals, there’s no question about that, but I think that most of the economists’ predictions are going to be wrong.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022628227#post80

[cui bono]

123. That is HARDLY a defense of the sequestration.

Talk about a stretch. :rollseyes:

With Dems like you we don't need Republicans.

[99Forever]

71. I pretty sure Dr Dean doesn't ...

... need to you to speak for him. Now run along, you've got mucho spin doctoring to do.

[bahrbearian]

72. Thats ,too funny.

[Marr]

90. Deceitful.

Put this in context. Obama proposed SS cuts while increasing defense spending.

[ProSense]

91. Here

"Put this in context. Obama proposed SS cuts while increasing defense spending."

...context: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2674625

Throwing out the word "deceitful" is simply a pathetic red herring.

[Marr]

94. I don't think you know what "red herring" means.

It's a distraction-- a bit of information, prevented as logical and relevant without actually being so, to lead people away from the issue at hand. It would be like, let's just say-- hypothetically, of course-- if there was a discussion of some budget measure, and I repeatedly posted tons of links to arguments that didn't even address the subject under discussion, much less back up my point.

Then I could be said to be using a red herring.

[ProSense]

95. You mean

"I don't think you know what "red herring" means. It's a distraction-- a bit of information to lead people away from the issue at hand."

...like throwing out the word "deceitful"?

[Marr]

97. No, that would just be a description.

You were trying to frame the argument as "Dean wants sequestration", which isn't true. He said the military cuts that come with sequestration weren't actually so bad. Other things are, but those particular cuts weren't. And those cuts were something Obama tried to quickly and quietly dispose of, while offering Social Security cuts.

His point was very clear. Your framing was intentionally deceptive, ie, deceitful.

[ProSense]

100. No,

You were trying to frame the argument as "Dean wants sequestration", which isn't true. He said the military cuts that come with sequestration weren't actually so bad. Other things are, but those particular cuts weren't. And those cuts were something Obama tried to quickly and quietly dispose of, while offering Social Security cuts.

...that's not what he said. He thinks it's the best way to cut defense, but he also doesn't think the impact of the other cuts are not going to be as bad as economists are predicting.

What’s your prediction about the sequester’s impact on the economy and the middle class?
I think it’ll be fine. There will be some hardships for some individuals, there’s no question about that, but I think that most of the economists’ predictions are going to be wrong.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022628227#post80

Saying he thinks "it'll be fine" is not acknowledging the devastating effects.

[Marr]

101. That doesn't mean he wants sequestration, for god's sake.

It means that, of the apparent options on the table, sequestration isn't so very bad. That is not the same thing as saying it's great. He's saying it's not this terrible, frightening, end of the world event which we must bargain away the store to avoid.

If you stop and consider the fact the supposedly Democratic president made a particular point of reversing the military cuts in sequestration (one of the positive aspects), while actually offering to cut SS, I have to say I understand his position.

[ProSense]

103. "It means that, of the apparent options on the table, sequestration isn't so very bad."

"That is not the same thing as saying it's great. He's saying it's not this terrible, frightening, end of the world event which we must bargain away the store to avoid."

...who said anything about it being "great"? Dean prefers it to the alternative, as you stated. Not everyone agrees.

Way to go, America. Meals on Wheels funding cut by sequestration. Seniors fearful.
http://election.democraticunderground.com/10022628227

Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequester.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022676970

[cui bono]

128. You're not making any points that you think you are.

Never thought of using ignore before but jesus fucking christ... the parroting of bs is too much.

[cui bono]

127. Again, that is NOT saying he supports it.

JFC... some people just never want to deal with the truth, too busy practicing idolatry.

[cui bono]

126. +1,000,000,000

[cui bono]

124. +1,000,000,000

[ProSense]

3. If he does, he

can run against Hillary in 2016.

From the link in the comment, it appears he's upset about the sequestration cuts being replaced, primarily the defense cuts.

https://twitter.com/GovHowardDean/status/323602323425353728

[Capn Sunshine]

10. Last I checked, Howard was good at spelling

Either this is a fake account or some loose cannon over at the DFA offices has access. Howard in all probability did not write this; he may have dictated it however. I think it's meant to be a tweak but not to be taken seriously.

[ChangeUp106]

13. Not a Fake Account

Can't speak to the rest of your post, but that account is verified by Twitter

[whathehell]

78. I would love to see that...

If he did, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat.

[Gore1FL]

35. It's a bad investment to continue a largely unnecessary industry.

Let's put the sequester aside for a moment. It has been over 20 years since the collapse of the Soviet Union. It is preposterous to spend as much as we do. If the only purpose of spending the money was to keep jobs, then let's spend it on an investment that actually provides returns. This includes, but is not limited to, science research, infrastructure, education, and medical care.

Now let's bring the sequester back into the argument. The entire sequester is stupid. If you have a choice to save a bloated military or children and elderly, picking the military is pretty fucked up.

[bunnies]

6. "the new budget eliminates nearly all of the cuts that sequestration imposes on the Pentagon"

makes me sick.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

8. You posted first. I'm removing mine.

[Glitterati]

11. Here's the sickening part - AT THE EXPENSE OF SENIORS!!!!!!!!!!

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Barack Obama saves the Pentagon budget by slashing Social Security and Medicare!

I really didn't think it could get any worse, but it just did by a factor of 100.

[RedCappedBandit]

125. This is nothing short of infuriating.

[LittleBlue]

9. Sickening. Military welfare saved while robbing SS retirees

Embarrassing when our former party boss threatens to leave the party.

[dotymed]

56. I think Dr. Dean made a step in the right direction.

Obviously, the dlc has been co-opted by the same PTB (money) that controls the rnc. If Dean would become an independent, that would send out a great message that we cannot afford to put party first if we want to change America in a fair and progressive way.
Our best and most consistent Senator for the people is an independent (Bernie Sanders), with Dr. Dean switching to that party, his message is "people first." As it should be.
If he decided to run as POTUS (with Sanders on the ticket I hope), he has the fund-raising and credibility to wake many Democrats up and this may be our last chance to get the govt. we want and deserve.
Dr. Dean would not joke about something this serious. IMO, he has stated the obvious. Both "viable" parties are owned by the same "people" and real change is impossible using the same paradigm. This may be our last chance. Obama has guaranteed that it will be a long time before another(?) democrat can be elected as POTUS. Independents may well become the actual FDR Democratic party. I hope so. We definitely need one...

edited for spelling

[zeeland]

118. Dr. Dean never bluffs. We should

never have allowed the Media to sabotage his campaign by ridiculing
what was a few seconds of unbridled enthusiasm. I think about what
a different world it would be had Dr. Dean been our candidate. That
Obama has never utilized Dr. Dean and his experience is a tragedy.

[jsr]

15. The BusinessWeek piece is a must read

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

17. The MIC's Appetite is Insatiable, and their Budget is Sacrosanct, Apparently

But not our's.

[hfojvt]

18. I hate it when people talk stupid

"I may have to shoot myself in the foot"
"I may have to slam my hand in a car door"
"I may have to become an independent"

Three really dumb statements.

Granted, as the other Dean said, the Democratic Party is controlled by "Rubin and his allies" http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022085948

but if you cannot defeat them WITHIN the Democratic Party, then you are not going to defeat them as an inDUHpendent.

Unless independents run in one of the many, many state legislative races that only have one party on the ticket (or heck, even the US Senate (WTF??) in South Dakota in 2010 only had one candidate. Unless they do that, the only thing they accomplish is - they help the Republicans win.

Thus, about as useful a move as slamming your hand in a car door.

[ChangeUp106]

19. .

In Dean's case I don't think he's running for anything. I think it's more symbolic.

[robinlynne]

85. Dean should have been in Obamas's first cabinet without a doubt! Dean's 50 state strategy is why

Obama was able to become president. Obama kicked him aside, together with the liberal policies Dean stands for. and I stand for.

[Blue_Tires]

117. ^^^^^^truth

I wanted Dean for Chief of Staff...I knew deep down things were starting on the wrong foot when we got Rahm fuckin' Emmanuel (I know, I know Rahm played a big role in the '08 election win, and had the potential to make things *very* ugly for Obama if he didn't get what he wanted, while Dean would be a good soldier and keep silent after getting slighted...)

[dotymed]

59. IMO, your "reasoning"

is why the dlc has been so easily co-opted.
"If you don't vote dlc (no matter how shitty the candidate), you are voting for a "spoiler."
People before party.
The people must support the candidate that will fix the status quo, if they are FDR Democrats (which the dlc isn't), I do not care if the call themselves the aardvark party...

[hfojvt]

87. okay then explain your own "reasoning"

show me how you have some pure progressive in the Virginia senate race. It was won by the DLCer Timothy Kaine, by 52.5% to 47.5% for George Allen. Show me how Ralph Nader can run as an independent and NOT allow Allen to win.

First I will agree with you. I would rather have Senator Ralph Nader than Senator Timothy Kaine.

My point is that if Nader cannot beat Kaine in the Democratic Primary, then there is no possible way he is gonna win a 3 person race. But if he gets 5.1% of the vote, say hello to Senator George Allen. And if you thought Kaine was bad, Allen is gonna be a lot worse.

The sad thing would be the Democratic Primary voters who say to themselves "I like Nader better than Kaine, but Kaine is more electable so I am voting for him in the primary."

And the other bad part is that only about 20% of Democrats (or less) will vote in the primary. In my county, for example, 1,866 people voted in my primary (and 1,540 of them voted for me). I lost the primary (district wide) by 1,919 votes. But in my own county 9,000 people voted for the Democrat in 2006 and 11,000 voted for the Democrat in 2008. If more than 21% of them had gone to the polls, with another 3,000 primary voters in my own county, I coulda won the primary.

But the people who vote for the "electable" candidate may have a point. Because a Nader-type might not be able to get 52.5% in a general election. Especially in a place like Virginia (or Montana, or North Dakota, or Kansas, or Indiana, etc., etc., etc.)

What sorta burns me up is when "electability" is decided not by issues, but by money. In the primary I was in, one political writer said that one of the other candidates was "the logical choice". Why? Not because of where he stood on the issues, but because he was the best fundraiser. It was sorta taken for granted, I guess, that all three of us were just generic Democrats on the issues.

In fact, my main opponent, the one who won the primary, when she spoke after me would start "I agree with what he said". And I am sure she did, but she did not spread the same message after I was defeated. But, as the primary showed, it is hard to spread ANY message without the money to do so.

[RILib]

98. not within the party

Stay within the party and you get DINOs like Hillary and Obama. I'm done with the stay within the party thing.

[hfojvt]

104. and go outside the party

and you get President George W. Bush and Senator George Allen and Speaker of the House John Boehner and Senate Majority leader Trent Lott.

Are you looking forward to that?

I am rather sickened by the idea of President Hillary Clinton, but it is much better idea than President Jeb Bush or President Marco Rubio.

[RILib]

106. The lesser or two evils policy has

always produced an evil.

[hfojvt]

108. and the greater of two evils policy

has always produced a greater evil

[merrily]

109. No one has a greater of two evils policy.

[hfojvt]

113. sure they do

this policy

not voting - 1%
pure candidate (if you can find one) - 4%
Democrat - 47%
Republican - 48%

I call that a greater of two evils policy, because anyone who is not a complete moron would know that voting for the pure candidate is gonna help elect the Republican EVERY time.

Either Mr,/Ms. pure candidate can win the Democratic primary, or they are not a viable candidate.

And I don't want to hear any "boo hoo hoo, the Democratic machine kept the pure candidate from winning the primary" because if the pure candidate can't beat the Democratic machine, then how the hell are they gonna beat the Republican machine?

[merrily]

114. I know why you called it a greater of two evils policy.

But, your calling voting one's conscience a greater of two evils policy does not make it so.

And I don't want to hear any "boo hoo hoo, the Democratic machine kept the pure candidate from winning the primary" because if the pure candidate can't beat the Democratic machine, then how the hell are they gonna beat the Republican machine?

Ask Bernie Sanders. He beat both the Democrats and the Republicans put together, literally.

Peace.

[wilsonbooks]

20. Will this finally wake people up to the sell out of our party

or will all the apologists just find another reason that this is a good thing? Cosmic chess and brilliant strategy by our glorious leader.

[Doctor_J]

21. Obama may save him the trouble

I can't see Obama continuing to call himself a Dem much longer. He has nothing in common with real Dems. He will change to (R) and we can pick up the pieces.

[merrily]

115. sounds great, but

I see my problem with Obama as being related to his DLC/New Democrat/Third Way/No Labels thinking and policies.

Most Democrats in Congress today are of that same mindset.

If an incumbent isn't running again, the DCCC and the DSCC choose new candidates for Congress.

On the Presidential level, the DLC clones make up by far the Super Delegates who stand ready to "correct" a liberal primary vote, should that unlikely event occur.

[neverforget]

22. A -$900 million dollar difference between FY 2013 and FY 2014 budgets.

Big whoop. FY 2014 Defense budget request is $526.6 billion down from $527.5 billion this year.

http://comptroller.defense.gov/defbudget/fy2014/FY2014_Budget_Request_Overview_Book.pdf

[Cleita]

23. Good he can join Bernie Sanders. If enough lefties do that

maybe it would be the start of a real Social Democratic Party.

[rhett o rick]

24. We cant give up the Democratic Party. We must take it back from the Conservatives. It's our party.

Dont let them drive us out. Dont support the DCCC or any other Democratic organization. Donate directly to progressive candidates or thru progressive organizations like moveon, PCCC, DFA, and PDA. Kick the Blue Dogs, The Third Way and old DLC'ers out of our party.

[Cleita]

28. I've only been donating to the candidates for the last three elections.

I actually return the DCCC and other Dem organizations solicitations with a note as to why I'm not donating to them. But with my decreasing SS, and it's been decreasing because COLA has been much higher than my paltry COLA increase, I can't afford even to send the paltry $5 to $10 I used to. With chained CPI there will never be any more donations.

[rhett o rick]

30. I have been doing the same. nm

[Volaris]

40. Why can't we give it up?

The R's have driven (see: Purged) most of the socially moderate Corportists OUT of their party and into ours, if we "leave" we let the Dems become the Party of Wall Street, the R's become COMPLETELY the party of American Lunacy, and any true Liberal party could make a good argurment for the votes of the other 60%...

Not that it would be easy without publicly-funded elections, but SOMETHING has to be done so that the will (and NEEDS) of the majority of American's are actually REPRESENTED in our Government.

[rhett o rick]

45. Our Democratic Party has a huge infrasturcture that belongs to us.

The value is priceless. We need to reclaim it and kick the Blue Dog's sorry asses out.

[merrily]

111. The deck is stacked before the primaries start.

You and I are the most valuable part of the party's infrastructure.

[rhett o rick]

112. The Democratic Party owns millions of dollars of resources that would be relinquished by abandoning

the party. Stay and fight. The anti-progressives/conservatives in the party want us to leave.

[littlewolf]

60. ding ding ding we have a winner !!!! nt

[Shankapotomus]

25. He's just following the script

Last edited Sun Apr 14, 2013, 11:24 PM - Edit history (1)

... a decoy in on the President's ruse. Draw the Republican's in for the slaughter. I'm not worried.

[rhett o rick]

31. Just how long is he going to "draw the Republican's in for the slaughter."????????? He has been

president for 5 years. Let's tell our seniors that it's cool, they may have to eat cat food, but Pres Obama has a plan.

You are not worried because for some, rationalization is the key to happiness. Enjoy it while you can.

[awoke_in_2003]

33. Some need to do more passing...

and less puffing.

[Shankapotomus]

36. FSM, it's cetainly not cool

I should have hit the sarcasm button. Sorry.

[rhett o rick]

58. No, it's me. I am sarcasm blocked. nm

[JHB]

55. If you think that's taking a long time...

...you should see the size of our pile of dry powder.

Protected for decades from the slightest dampness.

[humbled_opinion]

26. If true I seriously don't blame him +++++ n/t

[cantbeserious]

27. Obama's Gifts To Republicans Keep Piling Up

eom

[Newest Reality]

32. We are beyond the idea of a new deal now,

we are at the place of recognizing and demanding and Ultimate Deal.

If we keep playing the games we are presented with, we will only get the way that the Status Quo have utilized in order to get us to give up more of what we have in exchange for more of what they want from us in a way that makes us believe and think we are gaining from that deal.

If you look at what is going on and how many people are in poverty, falling into it, or who are losing their middle-class status tot he winners in the game of capitalism then the time has come to get into a new game that is empowering and will decide, definitively to utilize, one and for all, the vast amount of wealth and technology we have amassed for the benefit of everyone and no longer, in any way shape or form, without exception, for just a few.

The wealthy are either going to pay for the new world that is possible and accept that as their responsibility, or we may all go down together in a massive fireball that will, in the end, amount to nothing but a natural destruction based on ignorance how how things are. We do have so much at stake that all the rhetoric and manipulation really grows weak and vacuous in respect to the real and concrete aspects of life as it is.

[zentrum]

34. I'm so mad at Obama over this...

...that I may go with Dean into the wilderness.

[libodem]

38. Whoa!

What?

[Fearless]

42. If he sticks with America I stick with him.

[blkmusclmachine]

43. Not much left of the DEM Party, after WJC & BHO.

Man the lifeboats!!!

[progressoid]

44. I became an independent during the Clinton/DLC/centrist/triangulation crap.

Came back to the Dem party after B* began his reign of errors. But it looks like we're back to the same old centrist crap again.

[Deep13]

49. me after the health care reform fiasco. nt

[KoKo]

69. "Reign of Errors".... Love It!

[Demobrat]

119. I became an independent

on election day 2000, right after writing in Dean for President. And never looked back. I will NEVER be taken for granted by the Democrats again.

[Oilwellian]

46. You know it's bad out there when Dean says something like that

People are pissed and the WH is SHOCKED at that fact. LOL

[Arctic Dave]

47. WT everlovin F

Disgusting beyond words.

[Deep13]

48. Welcome to the real Democrats, Howard.

We meet in the ally and have saved you a seat.

[Taverner]

50. Fuck the empire

Kill it or it will kill us

[ForgoTheConsequence]

51. Chill out guys.

Howards in on the whole thing. Its just another dimension to Obama's chess game (i think we're in the thousands now) everything will work out, wait and see.

And if it doesn't work out I'll just say you're a Ron Paul supporting poser who never really liked Obama in the first place.

[sabrina 1]

52. Lol, you got that chess game down. My head gets dizzy from the constantly changing

talking points we get.

So what I do is look at a politician's actions, that is all I need to know.

When their words and actions constantly conflict, no matter how many 'reasons' someone gives me, I go with my instincts. Something is wrong here. We don't know what his core beliefs are, are they his words or his actions?

When someone actually has core principles, there is no doubt what they are, period.

I don't much care anymore. The damage is done and cannot be undone.

Dean sounds angry. He's not the only one.

Maybe this will be some historical shift of parties if people like him actually do leave. Or maybe we will just fight harder to turn this party around and end the DLC influence that has so destroyed it.

[BrotherIvan]

53. "When someone actually has core principles, there is no doubt what they are, period."

That's a great quote. Perfect to cut through the chess garbage. I've never seen so many pretzel twists!

[Marr]

89. I believe in His plan.

lol

[durablend]

110. Howard Dean is obviously

A RACIST!!! NO OTHER EXPLANATION!!!

[octoberlib]

54. Another Dean tweet

Howard Dean ?@GovHowardDean
If Business Week is correct it means the Prez proposed cutting SS to get a deal to increase Defense spending. No real Democrat will do it

https://twitter.com/GovHowardDean

[Tom Rinaldo]

62. Howard Dean was behind the 50 State strategy that helped Dems win Congress...

Howard Dean realized very early on the potential of grass roots based internet funding for national political races, and he was on the forefront of energizing a new young generation of Democratic activist voters well before Barack Obama ever stepped into the spotlight at the 2004 DNC.

I think Howard Dean proved to be a damn good chess player for a little known Governor of one of our smallest states. I trust his read.

[ananda]

57. A Bernie Sanders Independent (Socialist) ..

.. yes.

[dotymed]

61. I am actually giddy with the possibilities that could open up

to real, FDR Democrats if Dr. Dean follows through.
This has the possibility to wake people up and get them (us) to work together for our progressive principles. Maybe we CAN make the needed changes in a "bloodless coup."
I am with you all the way Dr. Dean. We can join Bernie in his tent and put people before profits.
I hope that all progressives follow this move. What a great way to start my first day as a grandpa. Maybe there is hope for my precious new granddaughters future.

This is the first positive post that I have been able to write for quite awhile.

[Bucky]

63. Ridiculous. Congress and the President don't determine what a Democrat is.

The Democrats, all of us, do. If the name "Democrat" means anything, it means we don't just follow the leader, but we argue among ourselves for what is right or wrong. Inevitably, no one is going to win every fight. I can understand the frustration in this case, but I refuse to cut and run just because we lost one fight, which by the way isn't even lost yet. In a democracy, you don't create change over night. The greatest changes in American history have been made gradually. Tossing all that over because of one or two lost arguments isn't being principled; it's being piquish.

[TreasonousBastard]

65. Excellent point, and btw...

if we really wanted to go back to our "roots" we'd mostly be segregationist yellow dogs or urban machine hacks. This vision of Democrats as enlightened angels gently skipping into a beautiful future is hilarious to anyone who lived in, say, Chicago during Daley's tenure. Or Mississippi in the 60s.

Politics is dirty, filthy business and if we're going to stick a toe in we had better plan to wallow in the muck and mire.

[Bluenorthwest]

66. Can you list the great gradual changes you have in mind as examples?

Please list some and tell us why it was preferable for those changes to be gradual as opposed to swift, what was gained by delay, who gained it, and did the delay harm anyone, if so in what way.
You need to establish specifics and then explain why 'gradual' was the best choice in those specific cases or you are not really saying anything at all.

[Bucky]

88. Women's suffrage, women's rights, various civil rights movements, labor empowerment

In each of these areas there were a series of partial and insufficient progress made in the halls of Congress or among the state governments before the hallmark achievements that we make big anniversaries out of. Fights had to be won within party caucuses first before they could be won in Congress. Before women got the vote in 1920, they were allowed to vote in certain elections (like school boards) in many states where they couldn't vote for Congress. The Equal Pay Act was passed in the early 1960s, but it was only the first in many laws it took to move women toward economic equity in the workplace--a process that is still ongoing and far from complete, but an area in which very real and tangible progress cannot be denied. Civil rights for minorities is the classic example of progress by gradualism, going from emancipation to anti-lynching laws to desegregation to right-to-vote laws to affirmative action to whatever the next struggle will be... hopefully ending discrimination in financial services industry. Labor movement's menue of 8 hour days, minimum wages, safe working conditions, right to organize, right to strike, etc also came in fits and starts, seeing times of progress and times of regress, but overall it's gotten better.

Am I saying "anything at all" yet?

[stlsaxman]

64. Lead on, Dr. Dean....

[Myrina]

67. As much as I am tempted to do the same,

We really need Gov. Dean, Rep. Grayson, Senator Sanders and others to TAKE BACK THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY from the corporate 1%er shills that runs it now.


If they lead, many of us will follow.

[Dawgs]

68. Join the club. Been there for two+ years. n/t

[n2doc]

70. If Obama keeps this up he is going to be the most isolated man in DC

The Repubs will NEVER agree to anything he wants, unless at the point of crisis, and then even only the smallest concessions possible.

I'll bet the budget that comes out of congress will keep all the military pork, keep all the cuts to most programs, and leave SS/medicare alone. With no new revenues, increase in min wage, or preschool funding.

[ProSense]

73. Well,

"The Repubs will NEVER agree to anything he wants, unless at the point of crisis, and then even only the smallest concessions possible.I'll bet the budget that comes out of congress will keep all the military pork, keep all the cuts to most programs, and leave SS/medicare alone. With no new revenues, increase in min wage, or preschool funding."

...that's a possibility. After all, it appears the push is to ignore the best of the budget because of a single shitty proposal. It's not like people can reject that proposal and at the same time push the good things in the budget, right?

In Obama’s Budget, Poverty Initiatives Face an Uphill Battle
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022674502

President's budget: Maintains Strong Support for Worker Protection.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022673679

President's budget: Excellent proposals that Congress should support.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022670043

[Chan790]

121. We get it...you've made your position clear.

Given a choice between supporting triangulating Democratic failure and being a principled Democrat...you've chosen the former.

I've chosen principles. More to the point, me and mine don't need or want you and yours.

[woo me with science]

74. K&R

[Beacool]

75. I already am.

Come join us, Howard.

[DrDan]

76. I guess he doesn't understand chess

[fredamae]

77. I Just Called DFA

The tweet is real and HD is serious.

I expressed My concerns, observations of just How many Dems are Pissed and disgusted.
I spoke with a very kind young man and assured him that I would be watching this org to see where it goes from here...to make sure this wasn't another "Dem facade" to draw in folks like myself....

[ProSense]

79. So

"I Just Called DFA The tweet is real and HD is serious."

...he's abandoning the effort to elect Democrats?

Howard Dean: Purple to Blue
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022593272

[fredamae]

80. No- No One has suggested

that either. It means exactly what it says-which does not translate into abondoning progressive Dem candidates or Anyone else that is progressive.

Many are finding the Dem Party, in and of itself, no longer reflects their values---Many who still call themselves Dems, do. I support them individually as many others do as well.

[ProSense]

81. Howard Dean is not going to become an Independent.

People took a sarcastic post as gospel.

He stressed starting at the grassroots level, and indicated the project would be in place for several years and would be part of DFA's strategy to elect a Democrat to the White House in 2016.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014435536

Who do you think that "Democrat" will be?

[fredamae]

83. I have no "Chrystal Ball"

Do you?
More to the point--Who do you want the Dem to be? Will you settle for what we are offered...as many have done in the past?

[ProSense]

84. No,

"I have no 'Chrystal Ball' Do you? More to the point--Who do you want the Dem to be? Will you settle for what we are offered...as many have done in the past?"

...I don't. So I guess we'll have to wait and see. As for the 2016 Democratic candidate, it's not going to be Dean if he's an independent. It would be great if Elizabeth Warren ran.

[fredamae]

86. I admit it crossed my

mind about another Dean run--However I agree with you...
Warren would be great--but I can't see it coming to fruition because she Is so progressive-unless there is a Huge change in the electorate as a whole---again-I have no crystal ball--I don't remember a time when things were so politically tumultuous for Both party's---I think this is worse than it was in the '60's.
It's going to bring change certainly--but what that change will look like is anyone's guess, I think at this time...

[ChangeUp106]

82. That Was Before Obama's Budget

Before Obama finally got through to some of you that he's not a Democrat

[Autumn]

92. If you lead, more will follow.

rec

[gussmith]

93. Real?

Surely this is not from Howard Dean.. Surely he could spell independent.

[alcibiades_mystery]

99. ROFL

One would hope.

[Peregrine Took]

96. I would follow Howard Dean into a new "Independent Democratic Party" in a nanosecond.

The only "Democrats" we seem to be able to get elected anymore are rethug-lites/DLC'rs like Obama and Clinton who run to the left when they need us to fire up their flagging campaigns and then betray us as soon as they get elected. Never again!

I will never get sucked in by a phony, silver tongued DINO with their lies and promises.

....Long time *real* Democrat seeks new party!

[DFW]

102. I just talked to Howard about this half an hour ago.

He is dead serious about how he feels, but don't read more into this than what he said.

The conditionals rule (for now). If that changes, he will let everyone know in no uncertain terms.

[QC]

105. Howard Dean never really loved him!!!

[IDemo]

107. Howard just defeated Independents, we should be celebrating!

In going with the meme du jour.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

116. Uh-oh, Spandan/Deaniac83 is in a tizzy.

I got your emo right here:

http://www.thepeoplesview.net/2013/04/a-deaniac-no-more.html

Somehow, I think Dr. Dean will survive.

[michigandem58]

120. Hyperbole

hy·per·bo·le
[hahy-pur-buh-lee]

noun Rhetoric .
1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.

2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”