What purpose is served in criminalizing drug use?

[Stinky The Clown]

I am not talking about serious dealing or importing. I am talking about using and maybe selling small amounts to keep up with the cost of using.

I see no purpose at all to charging drug users and drug addicts as felons, or even misdemeanors, for that matter.

I am not condoning heroin use or any of the new addictives, but I am perfectly good with excluding it from the criminal system and putting where it belongs, in the medical system.

What good does it do for a person to be given a felony conviction and then told to get their shit together and live a good live. How do you get your shit together when you can't get a job other than restaurant server?

The threat, and ultimately the fact, of criminal penalties have shown themselves to have virtually zero downward mitigative effect on drug use. In fact, drug use is up and up by big numbers. It is epidemic in big cities, suburban neighborhoods, and rural towns. No one is immune, and no place, no law, no lecture, no leader, no penalty has been able to slow it down.

Its beyond time to decriminalize all recreational drugs, bite the bullet and treat addicts, and stop giving life sentences of poverty and societal shunning to people who get hooked.










And before anyone goes there . . . fuck Rand Paul.

[RKP5637]

1. Absolutely nothing ... and as evidenced by how well it's worked. ... but the US is good at creating

more problems than it solves. ... and throwing in moralizing.

[Avalux]

2. Purpose? Confining/controlling minorities and the poor.

Those in power don't give a shit if people kill themselves with drugs. Keeping them illegal is a way to control the populace. Just like the cruel idea to drug test those who need public assistance.

Control.

[awoke_in_2003]

28. And don't forgot...

for-profit prisons

[socialist_n_TN]

52. Yep. And I will add ........

there's always an economic reason. Some of the illegal drugs, most notably marijuana, is WAY too easy to acquire without having a go-between in the capitalist sector to make profit off of it. Also, hemp production would create a huge pressure on profits in several established industries. Ergo, something cheap and easy with a low rate of profit MUST BE CONTROLLED AND ELIMINATED IF POSSIBLE. Otherwise it threatens the capitalist system.

[niyad]

3. money and jobs, including the private prison system. not to mention, disenfranchising a large

number of people.

[mick063]

14. Nothing of consequence happens in this country unless profit is involved

From pot prohibition, profitable ventures have arose.

How many urine samples are tested daily? I'm sure the association of Piss Testers will lobby hard to keep things the way they are.

Privatized prisons? Can't keep them full on the taxpayers dime unless we incarcerate those guilty of victimless crime.

Bonus funds for your local police department? They confiscate vast amounts of property as wells as bundles of cash. A means for pot prohibition to "self fund." All by legislative design.

Where does the money go? To evil gangsters that perpetuate their operations with cold blooded ruthlessness. Do they want it legal? Of course not.


There are various profiteers that will vigorously fight pot legalization and I'm sure I have not scratched the surface of mentioning those that have a vested interest.

[OriginalGeek]

5. How would privatized prisons survive

without drug user money?


Won't someone pleeeeeeease think of the corporate prison owners?

[retired rooster]

29. I'll think of them for you...

...I think they should be pistol whipped and stripped of the fortunes they have accumulated. Private prison corporations should dissolved and prisoners returned to state custody.

[elleng]

6. No socially advantageous purpose imo, Stinky.

[Newest Reality]

7. Read the

Emperor Wears No Clothes, for starters.

From industry to racism, making drugs illicit has been useful across-the-board.

There are and have been a list of jackpots for it. Currently, there is so much money invested in enforcement, (along with profitable, private prisons) that the momentum carries on and we pay for it.

I read the book years ago, and knowing is very frustrating since we have not made enough strides out of this manipulation. At least more people are not in the "corruption of youth", Reefer Madness propaganda mode these days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor_Wears_No_Clothes

[Newest Reality]

8. Ahhh ... the book is online!

http://www.jackherer.com/thebook/

[retired rooster]

30. And an excellent book it is...

...I highly recommend it as required reading.

[LadyHawkAZ]

9. I'm $ure there'$ $ome pre$$ing rea$on

for $aving $ociety from thi$ $courge. Any idea$?

[mokawanis]

10. Almsot every politician knows the drug war is a disaster

It's just that most of them are too cowardly to say so.

[rrneck]

11. I'm for decriminialization and treating addiction as a public health issue. nt

[riderinthestorm]

25. [phone]. nt

[Kurska]

12. Private prison slave labour of course

Oh and to give cops something to bust minorities over.

[randome]

13. You could ask the same of any law that criminalizes personal behavior.

Why motorcycle helmets? Why seat belt laws? Why have traffic signals?

All punitive laws are designed to instill a fear of consequences in everybody across the board. You can't have police officers making decisions about whether someone is selling or just toking. That leads too easily to bribery. That's why such decisions are up to a judge or jury to decide.

[HereSince1628]

16. Seat belts are to save insurance payouts...traffic signals are to save insurance payouts

many states DON'T require motorcycle helmets, because a dead motorcyclist is cheaper than one which is seriously injured.

Of course the justification is that without those laws people would have more expensive insurance policies.

[randome]

17. Without these laws, we would have a lot more dead people, too.

[HereSince1628]

22. The dead are cheap, their hospital bills not so much.

It's all "business decisions" though, no hard feelings in that.

[Curmudgeoness]

24. No traffic signals???

I was with you up to that. I cannot imagine driving (or walking) to the store if it was just a free-for-all on the roads. Some rules really are necessary.

[Dragonfli]

41. bad analogies, in the case of drug criminalization, It is a punitive law against

either relatively harmless recreation choices, or in the case of harmful addictive drugs an illness (addiction is a disease and those that suffer from it are victims).

Why criminalize a sickness or a harmless choice, this is nothing at all like the examples you give and instilling fear with punitive laws for a choice or a disease is frankly a little sick if not just stupid.

[Bluenorthwest]

51. By that logic, anyone drinking liquor should be arrested because they might own a still

How can the officer decide if they are just sipping or are really manufacturers of illegal and potentially poison 'moonshine'? Shouldn't a judge decide that? To avoid bribery?

[Egalitarian Thug]

15. Two primary purposes. One, to marginalized and ostracize a competitive industry

and to create the appearance of "otherness" in the persons who patronized it. Two, to exert and foster acceptance of a centralized authority that didn't exist prior to the anti-drug and alcohol movement.

You have to consider the times and attitudes that prevailed in those times. There were, and still are, many other reasons for creating this authority over people's lives, but these are the two primaries.

[Cleita]

18. There is an opinion shared by some that it bolsters the private prison industry.

I've seen some documentaries about it on Free Speech TV. It seems to create a revolving door of repeat offenders that keep the prisons full.

[randome]

20. Aren't private prisons a relatively new phenomenon, though?

[Cleita]

21. Not that new. Also, we were on our way to decriminalizing when this new

business kicked in and we seem to be going back to criminalizing again.

[Egalitarian Thug]

49. Yes, but there has been an easy money trail to follow all along the way.

In the beginning there were several Big Players in the textile industry. Hearst was heavily invested in timber and wood pulp, there was a small but connected chemical company called DuPont that was sniffing for government contracts for its new product called nylon, the pharmaceuticals were trying to find a way around the patent laws regarding naturally occurring compounds, Washington DC, as usual, was mired in a shitstorm of scandal and looking for something to distract the press from the standard vote-selling, business as usual. The 18th was a new phenomenon, as well as a spectacular failure, and there were more than a few egos at stake in its general acceptance.

Add in the oil and petrochemical industries, plus the easily exploitable racism that virtually defined America at that time, and a pointless drug war becomes a politician's wet dream.

[LegalScholar]

19. Here's some spooky info on corrupt Illinois prosecutors

http://countyleaks.blogspot.com/

[Curmudgeoness]

23. I have thought of this for years....

more years than I will discuss here. I cannot imagine why our society has not evolved beyond criminalization of people who use drugs.

I go further, and have come to the conclusion that we should just legalize all drugs in the same way that alcohol is legal, take the profit out of it for the gang bangers and drug lords, and tax it.

[Bennyboy]

26. Simple illustration right here...

[bluedigger]

27. Transfer of wealth from the underclass, support of the Prison Industrial Complex...

But really, you had me at "Fuck Rand Paul".

[spanone]

31. feeding the privatized prison system...crime pays seriously

[Mr.Bill]

32. More profits for the liquor industry.

And more taxes collected from liquor sales.

[KamaAina]

33. Fulfilling the occupancy provisions in the contracts with the private prisons.

I do truly wish I were joking, or referencing The Onion. But alas, no.

[ReRe]

34. I've always wondered the same thing, Stinky...

... and the only thing I can think of is they want to take your joy away from you. A harmless thing that don't hurt nobody. A small little thing at the end of a long day or week that will bring you peace and take you away from this fucking cruel GD world they have fucked up on everyone. They want everyone to be miserable until the day they die. That's all I can figure, Stinky...

[woo me with science]

35. Letters to shareholders from private prison executives:

Last edited Sun Apr 14, 2013, 01:35 AM - Edit history (2)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022665091
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/11/cca-prison-industry_n_3061115.html


Any changes with respect to drugs and controlled substances or illegal immigration could affect the number of persons arrested, convicted, and sentenced, thereby potentially reducing demand for correctional facilities to house them.
– CCA 2009 and 2010 Annual Reports

We believe the issue of border enforcement will be a priority over the next several years, supported by both political parties as evidenced by increased funding on a year-over-year basis to the two agencies primarily responsible for dealing with border enforcement, ICE and the U.S. Marshals Service. We further believe that the private sector will play a major role in assisting these agencies deal with this mandate.
– CCA 2005 Annual Report


We believe we have been successful in increasing the number of residents in our care and continue to pursue a number of initiatives intended to further increase our occupancy and revenue.
– CCA 2010 Annual Report

[jsr]

36. Yep. The private prison industry demands it.

[ohheckyeah]

40. The link takes me to a page that says:

You are not the author of this post.


Could you give me a link to that info? Interesting.

[woo me with science]

45. Oops, sorry.

I accidentally linked to the edit page.

I fixed the link now, and also added the direct link to the HuffPost article.

Thanks for the heads up.

[ohheckyeah]

46. Thank you.

I stumbled on it and read it and I'm sickened. I would love for some courageous reported to ask the President why it is we have such a high incarceration rate......either the American people are worse than people in other countries or our system is to blame. I'd love to hear what he would say.

[woo me with science]

47. I have that fantasy all the time.

I want the Constitutional Scholar to try to explain this fucking surveillance state and Kill Lists and indefinite detention. And the brutal attacks on Occupy. And the drone murders. And pushing to cut Social Security when it adds not a cent to the deficit and it's opposed by Americans across party lines.

They are well-protected from accountability.

Did you see the post about the reporting on Obama's meeting this week with the corporate oligarchs? I had to laugh, or I would cry. Apparently sending an email to the President and then printing the reply that gets sent back passes for covering the story now.

[ohheckyeah]

48. I read part of the story

and was so discouraged and dejected, quit reading.

My husband really only votes because I ask him to, but his basic philosophy is all politicians are self-serving and basically don't give a shit about us and nothing he will ever say or do will change that. I'm leaning more toward that attitude every day.

[GiveMeFreedom]

37. Yes, you are correct Stinky The Clown

What good does it do for a person to be given a felony conviction and then told to get their shit together and live a good live. How do you get your shit together when you can't get a job other than restaurant server?

The threat, and ultimately the fact, of criminal penalties have shown themselves to have virtually zero downward mitigative effect on drug use. In fact, drug use is up and up by big numbers. It is epidemic in big cities, suburban neighborhoods, and rural towns. No one is immune, and no place, no law, no lecture, no leader, no penalty has been able to slow it down.

I do not quite know what causes this to happen, but as poor as I am getting, I can take a wild ass guess, money? I bet money has something to do with it? Huh? Am I right? Sarcasm at its worst.

Absolutely correct and harder to change, than I have time left to live. Keep up the "righteous fight" Stinky The Clown. Peace.

[Initech]

38. Profit for those that own the prisons. Nothing else.

And yes fuck Ayn Rand Paul.

[green for victory]

39. only some drug use is criminalized

usually the natural substances.

That protects patentholders and pharma, who sell drugs by the containerload to other countries, sometimes after bribing the officials of those countries. Some really hardcore "drugs" are advertised on tv and prescribed to children. Soldiers are routinely pumped full of really dangerous "drugs"all the time (used to be prohibited).

Some people wonder why this is, even after hearing (or not) that there is a revolving door between the FDA and Washington, District of Criminals.

It isn't all that complicated, really. You can't patent a plant (yet- see MONSANTO, who has operatives deeply ensconced in the bowels of government.)

Nothing will change until the people demand it. No "leader" is going to ride out of the sky on a white horse and save the people.

And for those that say the Drug War was and is a failure, ask yourself how you could manage to turn a nations citizens on themselves, get them to give up their right to self treatment, shred the Bill of Rights, and enrich the biggest drug makers on the planet all at the same time, while confiscating billions of dollars to pay for it all.

The "Drug War" has been one of the most successful big government programs ever unleashed on a population.

[Paul E Ester]

42. Money - Banks

[Nevernose]

43. It's not private prisons

It's private prisons, plus:
Prison guards
Probation officers, juvenile and adult, local state & federal
Parole officers, juvenile and adult, local state & federal
Judges, local state and federal
Court employees, local state and federal
Police officers
DEA and the FBI
Army, marines, and Coast Guard
Prosecutors
Defense attorneys
The defense contractors making shit for local police departments
(On edit: look at the picture above and add banks to the list)

When you add it up, here might actually be more money on the side of the anti-drug forces than all the cartels together.

[HiPointDem]

44. Lots of reasons.

1. As others have noticed, suppression, surveillance, repression of minorities & the poor (two formations likely to cause trouble, plus treating them like shit & criminalizing them provides 'the threat of a bad example' to middle class actors who might attempt to make common cause with them for economic justice a la MLK).

2. Military build-up, networked militarized towns, cities, regions.

3. Keynesian pump-priming directed at favored regions and actors.

4. An excuse to conduct militarized operations in other countries and a budget to do it with.

5. A pretense of 'fighting' the drug epidemic destroying communities & families (though various government & corporate actors have been proven to be dope pushers themselves).

6. As others have noted, rentier $$ to private prisons....

7. An excuse for general surveillance, surveillance both of drug activity qua drug activity and of the violence it brings with it.

8. Illegal drugs = criminality = violence, bad neighborhoods, fear = middle-class support for repression and police.

[Apophis]

50. It keeps people in prison, which funds the prison-industrial complex.

Bill Maher was talking about this very subject on Friday's show. He was saying some high ranking prison official (in Ohio?) was making money on every person in his prison.

It's disgusting.