It's time to examine where my loyalties lie, you judge, I'll just explain my position.

[Dragonfli]

From my perspective, the party I joined thirty five years ago was a party I believed in and so gave my loyalty, It was the party of The New Deal, The Great Society and at the time I joined also the party of civil liberty and equal rights. I see a party in 2013 that is not that party. The question of my loyalty now becomes murky. I think my loyalty now only belongs to my class.

So many here and in the party leadership are comfortable and this place of comfort has made them cold to the reality that is daily life for a great many people.

They make many assumptions from ivory towers of middle class or wealth with little awareness it would seem of those that are lower middle class (quickly falling into poverty even tho they work harder with multiple McJobs than they did before lower middle class meant poverty).

As to the poor - they seem completely oblivious to them and convince themselves that welfare reform didn't harm anybody, it did and does to this day I assure you, it was not a pragmatic solution to a "welfare queen" problem handled well because a Democrat helped to all but destroy it. It will not be a brave pragmatic solution to "earned benefit queens" as they collude yet again with republicans to begin to shred these last vestiges of the new deal and great society.

They cause the poor to become poorer still while applauding the politicians responsible. Their applause and support are what make them just as responsible as their political idols.

They think this is a game, or a sport with my team and their team, not realizing or caring that the ball that is tossed around in this sport is a child that only gets to eat at school and will soon lose that food, or the ball is an elderly widow or widower that can only afford to take their medicine every other day or maybe will freeze to death in a small flat during a winter they could not pay their gas bill (this happens ALREADY).

There are many other balls tossed around for their sport and amusement, too many to list them all here, some are dead or dying, some are living under a tarp in a vacant lot hoping the cops don't roust them or the suburban teanagers don't decide to slum it and amuse themselves by assaulting them while laughing and taunting the "bum" for cell phone footage. Some of these comfortable people give advice to "the poor that in fact do ok". One of them suggested dumpster diving as a viable and reasonable option.

Too many of them applaud policies and politicians that make all these problems worse, they need to get it through their heads, many are dying and more will die of poverty, this is no game and the poor aren't doing ok, they are doing worse all the time with less help available all the time.

It is not serious, pragmatic, or brave to cause more people to suffer and die in poverty because it is referred to flippantly as "eating peas" or "being adult". It is not pragmatic even when the ones shipping away the jobs or destroying welfare "feel your pain". It never was bravery, but cowardice. It is not balanced when an increasing number of people fall into poverty and die while others become wealthier at an exponential rate.

The punditry, politicians, and comfortable may think it is a fun sport full of serious brave adults that make hard decisions.

Cowards all really, making easy decisions, easy because their decisions don't harm them, but rather the poor they barely acknowledge exist for the profit of the wealthy.

Sometimes they even have the gaul to pat themselves on the back and reassure each other "the poor in fact do ok".

I feel very sincerely about these class and poverty issues, I give my loyalty completely to the forgotten, struggling and increasingly poor working classes that birthed me. You decide if that makes me disloyal to this board or the party that has all but forgotten us for donations and pyrrhic election victories, because I will fight tooth and nail against any one of you or any elected Democrat that is harmful to my class, in other words harmful to most of America.

[MannyGoldstein]

1. K&R! We have fallen far!

But the 99% are stirring now.

[Dragonfli]

12. The 99% are stirring, we may overwhelm the bastards with numbers and take back our party

Our party looks bad on moderate Republicans anyway, the D needs a circle to keep it from falling off their lapel and Republican asses look fat in Democratic pants.

[DJ13]

2. Kick!

[socialindependocrat]

3. And Lyin Ryan gleefully proposes....

Let's take 813B in savings and give it to the wealthy because we all know that
they are the worthy because they keep this country going!

And I continue to ask why anyone in the working class still votes for these idiots?!

[99Forever]

4. If I could do the 'sticky" thing to keep this...

... at the top of every page on this website, I would.

Bravo Dragonfli.

[ChazII]

20. +1 n/t

[sabrina 1]

5. I completely agree with where our loyalties should be. And that the party we joined was the most

representative of those loyalties. We have been side-tracked, I think. Eight years of Bush caused us to lose sight of many things and we adapted an attitude of 'anyone but Bush'.

This was very short-sighted, but understandable considering the circumstances.

Now though, the people are awakening. I think this was an interim period, and our Party lost its way.

Or more accurately, our party was hi-jacked. Many of us refused to notice, I remember being very angry during the Bush years with people who tried to warn us. But now I understand and many more like me also get it.

There is no other party for us, those of us who care about all that you so eloquently laid out in your OP.

So we have to decide. Do we let the infiltrators take over our party, or do we organize and hold on to it by refusing to elect candidates that are chosen for us?

I'm for not letting them steal our party. To try to start another one is almost impossible and besides we have a third party, it is called 'The Third Way' and it has attached itself to OUR party.

My feeling is that we detach this third party from ours, let them join the one they belong to in reality or start THEIR own.

We were here first, I'm not ready to concede our party to any right wing infiltrators.

The good news is we can see now where the problem is within our party. We were sort of blinded by the Bush years.

The first step towards fixing problem is to identify it. And I think we have done that with THEIR help, ironically.

I feel excited about taking this new view of things. It is freeing in a way. Before we were 'waiting' and 'hoping' when what was required was direct action.

This conversation is going on all over the country now. And to me, that is a good thing.

It can start with just one person, then two then three. If we are careful about who we choose to represent us, find people with real courage and leadership skills to run for office, chosen by US not them, and in large numbers, because they WILL destroy those with courage unless they can't. And the way to prevent that is to overwhelm them.

There is a lot of work to be done to take this Party out of the hands of Wall St and its minions planted in the party. But I think it can be done.

[Dragonfli]

10. I can see that people are waking up (except for in the bubblesphere of TV and DC)

Cold water to the face and decisions about whether to pay the gas bill or the rent will do that.
Not to mention those that know they can't juggle it anymore and things are being shut off over it.

There is definitely a stirring, I just hope we can overcome the wealth and party machine that keeps impeding our attempts to change the party via the primaries, they have become exceedingly efficient at pushing money and faux Dems in primaries AGAINST the progressive candidate even when their choice has less chance, not more, of beating the Republican.

We have a difficult task, not enabling Republicans victories while also not falling for the lesser evil gambit anymore.

[Armstead]

88. Actually the Democrats got sidetracked and hijacked in the early 90's

It's been downhill ever since

[sabrina 1]

93. That's true. It definitely did begin then. But we didn't have the internet then so it was less

obvious and after the Reagan/Bush years, and he vicious attacks on Clinton, we spent more time defending him from them, than closely watching what he was doing. But you are right, it did begin in the 'nineties'.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

6. Amen -

I am there with you.

[whathehell]

7. I'm right there with you. K & R.

[etherealtruth]

8. Thank you, Dragonfli

You have expressed what so many of us feel.

[Tom Rinaldo]

9. I'm with you word for word

It's a perversion to the language when shared sacrifice is defined as one man being asked to pass up their third serving of dessert while another must cut back to a single side of toast.

[Dragonfli]

15. The way they use the term shared sacrifice is an insult to our intelligence and innate morality

[ChaoticTrilby]

57. Here, here!

You put it better than I've been able to. Such warped logic we're up against, it's ridiculous.

[truedelphi]

11. Dragonfli - i was thinking along these same lines, but

Way too lazy today to type out my thoughts.

You did a very good job of typing themout for me.

I am thinking - maybe Jefferson is right. (Was right? His ideas are eternal, though the man is dead - so don't know which tense to use.)

Political parties are an abomination. they become way too powerful and then they are able to let themselves get sold off to the highest bidder.

Maybe we should set it up so that there are no more people running for office. Ever.

Just a list of principles, and as a voter, you get to choose. For instance, you look at your ballot in Nov 2014, and it reads:

Universal Single Payer Health Care VS. Insurance for Profit.

Making Marijuana Legal (even for Simple Recreation) vs Continuing Drug Wars. (Currently 52% of all Americans believe this - end the drug wars, legalize the product)

Trimming the fat out of Dept of Homeland Security VS. expanding Homeland Security.
(If you choose to cut them back, it is for the purpose of making it so they no longer have one million dollar MRAP tanks to hand out like door prizes. (Cost of each vehicle - over one million. Right now, some 67 counties in California have 'em! But the tanks are a war territory item that will not really help the communities they go to. And some of the communities getting these items cannot afford to keep libraries open, or have full time teachers for schools!)

Restoring and expanding Social Security - trimming back Congressional pay checks VS curtailing Social Security via the raise of the age to 67 and then the CPI cuts. (Another item that over 60% of Americans would go for - keeping Social Security and making it stronger, not weaker.)

After the election, those policies that get the most votes get put in place, by a legal and secretarial staff that drafts the language and then they are law.

[sabrina 1]

14. I love that idea, voting on the issues, rather than for people.

Last edited Sun Apr 14, 2013, 12:05 AM - Edit history (1)

But who would decide what issues were on the ballot? And we would have to have some administration.

I do believe Jefferson was right about political parties now. They divide the country and it becomes about personalities rather than about the country and what is best for it.

I know he was fascinated with tribal philosophy. What we need are some wise men and women in power. There is very little wisdom in our system. It is all about money and power and old, used up words such as 'pragmatic' etc. are tossed out without those using them even knowing what they mean half the time.

Definitely a two party system has failed considering we have turned into something the ideals of the country never intended us to be. We are not a democracy, we are an Empire and once a country becomes an Empire its interests are very different. The people are no longer a priority except how they can be used to expand the Empire.

[Blanks]

98. Perhaps Gingrich had the idea in the 1990's...

With his 'Contract on America'. Maybe what we need is a platform like Roosevelt's 2nd bill of rights (just as an example).

The politicians who are willing to sign on get grass roots support, the ones who don't can be easily recognized as corporate puppets.

Of course the 'Contract with America' was just a bunch of stuff that, while they voted on it, they just voted: no.

In concept, I don't think it was that bad an idea. A bottom up approach to getting congress to take the people's wishes to heart.

[Dragonfli]

30. I agree truedelphi and I like Sabrina's take on it

The party system has failed and in exactly the way Jefferson predicted.
It should be replaced, but how? Maybe in the long term or faster perhaps if the pitchforks and torches come out once they push a little too far (history shows this result after times of extreme wealth disparity over and over again).

Sabrina reminded me of my own fascination with tribal philosophy. Americans native to my general area include the Iroquois, one part of their philosophies I admire and think should be included in any governance is Seven generation sustainability. It's a concept that will aid in our survival considering current environmental realities. It is also important to consider what we leave behind and would encourage us to protect legacies such as Social Security rather than the looting and burning of such legacies being proposed these days by the ultra wealthy.

[Cleita]

50. Or maybe we should do something similar to parliamentary type systems

without the parliament. We could have multiple parties and each party with a certain amount of members could elect a representative for each. For instance you could have a representative for each million members. Only the top in membership let's say of eleven parties would have elected representatives sent to Washington. Fringe parties with few members wouldn't be acknowledged until they build up their followers to a competitive number. So when they get to Washington they have to form coalitions on legislation. For instance let's say the ERA comes up. So they need to reach out to the parties nearest them in ideology to come up with a vote. I know it seems complicated, but it would give all political ideologies a voice. However, there still would need to be a majority in favor to pass legislation. I made the number of parties eleven to avoid ties. It's just a brain fart right now.

[Stardust]

105. Might I add (with props to Norman Goldman)...

- tax fairly by raising taxes on the top 1% of Americans

- tax corporations fairly by eliminating tax loopholes

- end corporate welfare, such as subsidies to oil companies and agribusiness

- not use tax dollars to help send American jobs out of America

- downsize the empire we have built by closing half the military bases overseas

- cut the Pentagon budget by half

- end foreign occupations

- end the War on Drugs

- lifting the cap on SS tax

[Veilex]

106. Spot on!

K&R

[truedelphi]

113. Those are very good ideas.

Every last one of them. And I am sure there is some poll somewhere that shows the majority of Americans would accept those changes.

It is only our bought and paid for "Leaders" who don't seem aware of the importance of doing these things.

[Stardust]

109. This concept of voting on issues, not canditates, is brilliant. Seriously. Wish I

could live to see it happen!

[carolinayellowdog]

13. this is a moment of reevaluation for any progressive Democrat

or is it democratic Progressive? I've been in the latter category for a long time and Obama and co. may have just pushed millions over the line.

Post a class solidarity pledge along these lines and ask people to sign it. I would.

[Cleita]

16. A little history and something I didn't know until yesterday when I was

watching Oliver Stone's history series on Showtime. Although I was alive during those times, I was a preschool child. I do remember the talk about war and Roosevelt, Winston Churchill and all that and I was familiar with the name of Henry Wallace our Veep at the time. What I didn't know was that Wallace was a liberal Democrat in the style of Paul Wellstone. He made speeches in favor of labor, unions and the poor and poor working class. Now here is the clincher. Even though he had been Roosevelt's Veep during all the tough times, the depression and the war, he fell out of favor with the PTB in the Democratic Party. This is why Harry Truman became Roosevelts Veep for his fourth term. This was in 1944.

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1754.html

My jaw dropped at that. I did not know this. None of my history classes taught this. But apparently this is not new. The DLC style Democrats have been in charge since way back then and if you didn't know how to play politics with them, you find yourself on the outside looking in. It's time for a big Party cleaning IMHO or they are going to lose people like you and we will be left with Republican Lite then.

[WinkyDink]

34. Well, Harry was willing to incinerate civilians. Perhaps HW was not.

[Cleita]

36. Maybe. Shameful history all the way. n/t

[Dragonfli]

37. Good find! I must have learned and forgotten that bit from history.

New Democrats are retro after all and a continuing threat rather than a new one, we are just living in their end game of "give it all to the wealthy" so it is blatant as hell.

We have to fight them and regain control, we have no other choice except perhaps to replace them. Third parties are not actually allowed under our system to compete fairly, but third parties HAVE strangled one of the parties to death in order to take it's place in the past, that may happen with a modern working party.

[Cleita]

38. We need to take this party over. They keep shoving us socialist progressive types

to the margins while they take over. Well, they have the money, but they need our footwork and our numbers in votes. Time to refuse to work for whomever they shove at us. We don't have the money but we have the numbers. Time to start planning for next year. The last prez candidate I canvassed for was John Kerry but my heart wasn't in it. I was a fan of Howard Dean. Surprisingly, most of the people I canvassed were luke warm about Kerry, but kept telling me whom they really wanted was Howard Dean. So that really tells us something there.

Now I personally am happy with my Congressional rep and my senators, but those who aren't need to start working right now to decide who and how they are going to put in Congress in 2015. The same goes for the Presidential race. Let's get someone who is as attractive as Obama but who leans way left. We don't have the money, but we have the numbers and we need to remember that.

[sabrina 1]

42. Very interesting, there's a lot I didn't know about our history either and in many ways I have Bush

to thank for what I have learned over the past decade. Sometimes you learn far more from your adversaries than those you agree with.

But isn't it exciting that we know so much more now than most of us did even ten years ago?

It really is true that knowledge is power. You can almost feel the yearning, across the country, across the world, for meaningful change, for making better use of the planet's resources etc.

More people than ever have learned what the Wealthy, the Oil Cartels etc have been doing to this planet, what Big Corporations have been doing to create so much inequality by using people as slave labor in other countries. Because now they are trying to do it here.

All this knowledge has made people angry, it sparked a Global Movement for the first time.

It took decades, maybe centuries to get to where we are, so it will take time to change things, but I am excited at the growing urgency you feel everywhere, to make some major, major changes in how this planet is utilized.

And the Corps, Wall St feel it to. That is why they cracked down so hard on OWS. They truly fear more than anything else, not being able anymore to, as Hillary put it sadly, 'control the message'. They could people under control so long as they could fool them. That is not the case anymore.

[idwiyo]

17. I beleive you made a right decision, but I am a commie. :)

[socialist_n_TN]

21. Me too, Id.........

Me too.

[idwiyo]

31. TWO commies... Someone will be here shortly to accuse us of planning to take over DU!

[socialist_n_TN]

35. Oh that's already happened........

Where do you think all those posts whining about "Socialist Underground" come from?

Edited to add: BTW, we are growing faster than the Third Way Democrats are though.

[idwiyo]

41. :) :) :)

[Dragonfli]

52. I consider you reds allies, were it not for Communists the "New Deal compromise"

would likely not have happened. Reds have also been an extremely important part of the history of the labor movement. What's not to love?

We need you guys, I may be a mixed economy believer of the Democratic Socialist variety AKA the nearly extinct left wing of the Democratic party, but without Reds there is no one to keep us honest and help prevent our mutual enemy the fascists from coming in and messing up the place destroying everything and most everyone in the process.

(FDR's Bill of Rights I consider a Democratic Socialist fruit, one we need to make law asap)

[socialist_n_TN]

55. Why THANK you Dragon.......

I've actually tried to get people to realize this very thing for years now. If you WANT a "regulated" type of capitalism and a social safety net, you really ought to support the communists among you. The difference can be hashed out later, but until then we're all on the same side. And you're right. If it weren't for the Classic Reds, the New Deal wouldn't have happened.

Edited to add: And when the fascists DO come in (and they will as soon as the threat of revolution becomes credible), we won't make the mistake the Stalinists made in Germany right before Hitler came to power. We WILL fight WITH social democrats AGAINST the fascists.

[idwiyo]

75. There are no differences between us really. Socialism and Communism is not something that can be

forced on people until they are ready to move into it themselves. I see at as an evolution, instead of revolution.

PS. Stalinism was a perversion of everything that socialism should stand for, IMNSHO. Never mind the impossibility of building a socialist society in a country that just managed to move out serfdom.
It's the same as trying to force Democracy on people who have no idea what Democracy is about.
This is why I believe its evolution of one system into another, instead of forceful replacement.

[idwiyo]

72. Mixed economy is just one of the steps towards communism. :)

Last edited Sun Apr 14, 2013, 04:34 AM - Edit history (1)

That's what we need to push for her here in Britain and you guys on your side of the Pond.

[idwiyo]

94. Kick.

[OneGrassRoot]

18. Brava!!!

Huge K&R

[SheilaT]

19. One aspect of this huge disconnect

between voters and their self-interest, is that hardly anyone remembers the Great Depression any more. I don't. I was born nearly a decade after it ended.

But right now I happen to be reading the book "Addie Pray" (which the 1973 movie "Paper Moon" is based on). It was published in 1971, but the events take place squarely in the midst of the Great Depression. The author, Joe David Brown, was born in 1915, so he understandably would have remembered those years quite vividly.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that those years were worse than almost any of us can imagine. There was a grinding poverty and sense of desperation that is almost unimaginable right now. I'm not trying to gloss over how bad things are currently for many people, but we're still a long way from the 1930's. Unfortunately, if the interests of the well-off continue to prevail, we will get there again.

I am beyond outraged that too many Democrats, from Obama on down, seem to have no clue how bad things already are for so many people. The scary thing is, it could get worse. It will get worse if certain things don't change. Things like the obscene spending for war. The lack of universal health care. The threat to Social Security. The outrageous cost of public secondary education. Then there's the removal of jobs, the abandonment of any pretense of a common good. I am hoping that the anger so many of us feel is being communicated to those at the top.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

83. Well, that is interesting, SheilaT

since I've finally gotten around to reading Rick Bragg's All Over But the Shoutin' which moves forward in time a bit, but which chronicles the desperation and soul-depletion of a mom trying to raise 3 boys in Georgia and Alabama. Her entire world was the meanest and most frightening fight for SURVIVAL - keeping those kids fed. Actually, her 4th child died as an infant.

Dragonfli, I'm with you on your well thought-out post. We are headed in a very dangerous direction. We do have the means, but we surely lack the will. Must also say how totally messed up and hypocritical our nation's "Christians" are - they pull out all these Bible verses that they say support all their anti-human beliefs, but never seem to consider "the least among us."

[SheilaT]

85. I've read the Rick Bragg book. It's very good.

Santayana had it absolutely right when he said "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

History is important in ways that people don't fully understand. Knowing what happened is just the first step. You need to think about not only what happened but why it happened, how it happened. Can things be done differently in the future? I don't know about the rest of the world, but in this country history is very badly taught. Sometimes the teachers are the coaches. Sometimes they're just not very good teachers. Most of the time the textbooks are terrible.

Personally, if I were to become a history teacher in high school, I'd teach it as a series of biographies, and approach it as if it were a gossip column, or maybe a reality show. What people did is actually very interesting, it's just not presented that way in history classes.

[Stardust]

108. Personally, I love history but I've become skeptical about who to trust anymore. nt

[bvar22]

22. Proud to STAND with YOU and the Class that birthed me too.

That is WHY I chose the Party of FDR so many years ago.

"In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which [font size=3]a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.[/font]

Among these are:

*The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

*The right of every family to a decent home;

*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

*The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being."---FDR, Economic Bill of Rights

There was a time, in MY living memory, when voting FOR The Democrat was voting FOR the above values.
Sadly, that is no longer true.

The New Democrat Centrist Party had drifted FAR away from those values,
and has taken an active role in dismantling the traditional Democratic Party Cornerstones of The New Deal and The Great Society.
THOSE ideals built the largest, wealthiest, and Most Upwardly Mobil Working Class the World has ever seen.
Abandoning those values is the cause of the 30 year decline.

Thank You for your excellent essay.
It is obviously heartfelt and sincere.
I STAND with you.

Proud DURec.

---bvar22


[font color=firebrick size=3][center]The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH & Powerful
at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR. [/font][/center]

[Dragonfli]

54. The Second bill of rights is an expression of my ideal party values

[WillyT]

23. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[cbrer]

24. I'm with you. Now...

What can be the spark that ignites the revolution we need?

[Dragonfli]

58. I don't know, but I hope it is not 'even more extreme poverty', that spark may involve

bloodshed and inspire things like this:



I hope the spark comes when the 99% movement reaches critical mass, and I sincerely hope it is peaceful.

[randome]

25. Until we rid ourselves of an obstructionist House...

...I don't think you can say all the things you mention are necessarily true. We can move Progressive legislation only with a great deal of difficulty and with only meager results at this point in time.

The time to lose faith in the Democratic party would be when they have the power and THEN fail us.

[sabrina 1]

45. We could move a whole lot more of it if so-called Democrats weren't making Republican proposals

about offshore drilling eg, and SS. Those obstructionists in the Dem party will have to be removed, as the first step towards restoring the values the OP is talking about.

Republicans are not our business, we can easily defeat them on the issues. It is the infiltrators in our own party that are the major problem.

The OP explained that very clearly.

[Dragonfli]

63. Helping to move harmful legislation is not the answer to obstructionism.

All that does is enable bad policy, make it law, and then blame others for the pain it causes. You obviously see this from a different perspective. Fine.

The bipartisan screwing of myself and most others hurts the same and I really don't think it matters how or why someone helps screw me, an olive branch to assholes provides me with zero caloric intake.

[humbled_opinion]

26. Loyalities, disillusionment!

Much of this is the fault of Democratic leadership that instead of fighting to help the struggling middle class somehow bargains away the very foundations and principles that make us different then the greedy republicans.

Yes we have a spending problem, because the priorities on what this government spends money on are totally screwed up... Stop giving corporate welfare, stop giving tax breaks to those that simple don't need them but take them so they can pay less, start forcing those that have to give a little more to help those that don't have, isn't that the true meaning of what this country was founded on? Allowing politicians that simply tow the corporate line is what is wrong in this country and those exist on both sides of the aisle.... So be true to yourself and do what you can to educate the masses. I had grand hopes that President Obama could be that voice but it seems lately he has chosen the easy path and given in to the pressure of the corporate elite, jury still out but we will see.... My hopes for him were centered on his ability to educate those that have been hypnotized by the corporate rightwingers, sadly he is only human

[sabrina 1]

81. Very nice post, thank you! n/t

[zeemike]

27. Can't find anything to disagree with here.

The whole thread is great...and gets to the heart of the matter IMHO.

For the OP and the posts.

[socialist_n_TN]

28. Great position statement Dragon.........

I too, came from a working class background and supported Democrats for almost all of my life. Even when I became aware of class in my late teens, I STILL supported Dems. But NOT JUST BECAUSE THEY HAD A "D" BEHIND THEIR NAMES. I supported them because their POLICIES seemed to support ME and my class. Intellectually, I've known for decades that the Dems were not a "labor" party, but were a bourgeois party. But they, at least for most of my life, supported things that made life for my class easier. That doesn't seem to apply any longer.

Trotsky said about the American working class in the 30s that they were militant and brave. He also said that they have an IDEA that they ARE a separate class of itself. The only thing that was lacking is for that consciousness to lead to becoming a class, not just of itself, but a class FOR itself. Hopefully, more and more are finally making that transition.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. 'Con los pobres de la tierra'. With the poor people of this earth I want to share my fate.

From "Guantanamera".

[djean111]

32. I'm with you.

I was derided here, once, for my "rhetorical skills" - as if rhetorical skills aren't what some people consider presidential, I guess I should have been pleased! - but, all I need to say is I'm with you.

[WinkyDink]

33. I am WITH you, Dragonfli! New Dealer-bred, born in '49; it defines me and my politics.

[whathehell]

44. Well, I'll be damned...

Sounds like me, right down to the year of birth!

[SammyWinstonJack]

39. K&R!

[SleeplessinSoCal]

40. Think back to Obama's reaction during the State of the Union to Citizens United . . .

So much in that decision made for an uphill climb that shouldn't exist.

[Cooley Hurd]

43. You must've slept thru the Clinton years...

[sabrina 1]

48. So you didn't read the OP?

[Cooley Hurd]

51. I did. And he's blaming this President for things FAR milder than Clinton did...

...yet no mention of Clinton?

[Dragonfli]

65. I didn't use his name, but who else "felt my pain" while exporting our jobs via NAFTA?

Or Helped so much to destroy welfare? It never occurred to me I would have to spell out the obvious.

[Cooley Hurd]

67. Everyone has felt the pain since 1994...

[magical thyme]

96. "I feel your pain" is a quote consistently attributed to Clinton

since, well, the beginning of Clinton. That you need it spelled out for you speaks to your lack of reading comprehension, not the poster's failure to include Clinton.

Makes me all the more suspicious of the other Clinton who did, after all, start out as a young republican.

[ancianita]

70. I read that you meant Clinton. Yes, yes he did begin the rightward slide of this party.

That slick sellout.

[sabrina 1]

78. He spoke about the downward slide of the Democratic Party over the past twenty years. I think that

Last edited Sun Apr 14, 2013, 01:55 AM - Edit history (1)

includes the Clintons. I certainly would include them as part of the DLC/Third Way not-quite Republican but close, wing of the party. Nafta, Ending Glass Steagal, Deregulation, Welfare 'reform' that was supposed to be 'fixed' but never was, yes those were part of the Third Way agenda. Which is the Wall St. agenda being that the Third Way was invented and funded by Wall St.

Most of us didn't notice it back then. We were busy defending Clinton from the far right wing lunatics. And while we were doing that, he was was doing things that a democrat should not have been doing. So I agree with you and I have a feeling the OP does too.

There was no large internet presence back then. Had there been I don't think Clinton would have gotten away with as much as he did, at least not without immense pushback from Democrats.

Now we are more informed, more aware and we know more about what they are doing, no longer dependent on the MSM for actual news.

The OP is not blaming any one person or politician. She is blaming those who bought politicians, who implemented policies through those politicians that have been for the most part anti-Democratic, right wing. They had already pretty owned the Republican party. But now they own a significant part of the Democratic Party also. And if we don't wake, it will be difficult to tell the difference.

[Dragonfli]

61. No, I was working while volunteering to help real poor people on the lower west

My view of his crap was not from a suburban comfortable setting, unlike him, we felt the actual pain of his betrayal to the safety net, contrary to the expelled gas that formed words pretending to feel it, it is not my fault you inhaled the methane and bought the con job.

[Cooley Hurd]

66. "you inhaled the methane and bought the con job."

First off, I am sorry for your loss.

Secondly, do NOT assume I am "comfortable". I have felt the pain of watching my family members die because of a lack of care in our present society.

[Dragonfli]

71. I'm sorry, I misinterpreted your post to mean I was wrong to criticise him and so

Last edited Sat Apr 13, 2013, 10:11 PM - Edit history (1)

must have slept through the whole era. Sincere apologies, I will try to explain further.

It doesn't matter to me which Democrat enables or enacts harmful RW policy, I still consider them that do a center right cancer in our party.

They appear to have more in common with Reagan ideologues and Pete Peterson fetishists than they do with me. It is not personal, but it is serious, a great deal of harm and pain has been inflicted on the working class due to the "centrist" Democratic enabling of Republican policies and in some cases policies created by them outright and sold to Republicans. (these "centrists" are actually center right)

I don't hate any specific player, but I outright loath their dishonest infiltrative game,

[carolinayellowdog]

95. any post consisting of "you"+stupid insult

merits an instant addition to the ignore list

[L0oniX]

46. Must K & R

[HarveyDarkey]

47. Well said, my friend

my thoughts almost exactly

[xchrom]

49. Du rec. Nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

53. The Republicans have made a sport out of dumping on the poor

(like the British Tories who literally laughed as they passed legislation that made life more difficult for the poor), and too many Dems have either bought into that attitude or are off in their suburban cocoons blissfully assuming that everything is fine because Obama is in charge.

I think that one thing that was different about the Depression was that mass entertainment wasn't so dumbed down. There was no television, narrative radio requires imagination, movies assumed a certain verbal sophistication, and even children read fairly difficult material. (My mother kept her fourth grade reader for some reason, and it was written on what we would consider a middle school or even high school level.)

Nowadays the mass media, aside from lying to us about politics, tell us that the really important things in life are sports and celebrities and the empty-headed narcissists who populate the "reality" shows.

When was the last time you saw a TV drama deal realistically with poverty or racial issues (as opposed to fairy tales where no one notices anyone else's race) or political corruption or labor issues or disabled rights? In the early 1960s, it was possible to see these kinds of issues explored on TV dramas such as "East Side/West Side," "The Defenders," "Naked City," "Route 66" and some of the medical shows. (Don't say "The West Wing"--What a shallow feel-good program that was in comparison!)

Another enemy of solidarity that was absent during the Depression is suburbanization. Unlike urban neighborhoods or small towns where everyone knows everyone else and there are natural gathering places, the typical car-oriented suburb has no natural gathering places, no venue for sitting down and talking to all kinds of people. (This lack of community is one reason for the success of the megachurches, most of which are in such suburbs.)

If you live in such a place, and your neighbors keep their troubles hidden, and your only view of poverty is from the freeway, you're going to be unconcerned, too.

[cantbeserious]

56. The Highest Of DU Recommendations

eom

[creativebliss]

59. Well Said and I agree...

I am a fellow human and American before I am anything else...

[obxhead]

60. I'm with you 100%

I'm focusing on our needs, not the desires of the party.

[ChaoticTrilby]

62. K&R, I'm with you all the way.

I was naive for a while, believing that the Democrats were the "good side" and the Republicans were the "bad side." I was partially right, but only regarding some social policies, and even then it tends to apply to liberal people rather than the people who get elected. The politicians right about now seem to be on the "rich side," and I cannot stand for that any longer.

Let's keep up the good fight. I can only hope that we'll eventually break through before the wealthy screw us over irreparably with their selfishness. Can't give up hope yet.

[stupidicus]

64. I've never been much of a party guy

despite voting largely dem because they've best reflected my values. That's where my loyalties have and will always lie too, which no doubt explains why the conflicts I've had with members of that party have increased significantly in the last couple of decades.

It's a "people first" thing.

good post

[democrank]

68. Bravo, Dragonfli, bravo!

Profound, compassionate, insightful post. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

My class loyalties are the same today as they were nearly fifty years ago when I joined the Democratic Party. Nearly five decades later, I`m pained at what my party has become. The Paul Wellstones are few and far between. What we have instead are "leaders" who consistently sell out to the highest bidder.That`s why it`s such a big damn deal when someone like Elizabeth Warren wades through the cesspool and makes it to a microphone to stand up for people who are all but invisible to the higher echelon of corporate Democrats. They`re all busy consulting with image-makers and waiting for their drivers while the poor are trying to put together a dinner with the $2.16 in their pocket and a trip to the local 7-11.

While the "leadership" deals are being struck and the golf dates are being arranged, legless vets are sitting...waiting months on end for VA disability decisions. While our "leaders" are pretending with David Gregory on Meet the Press, a homeless family is trudging up and down a sidewalk waiting for a shelter to open for the night. While President Obama is obsessing over his next plan to befriend Republicans, some woman who worked 27 years in a woolen mill is wondering how she can get to her chemo appointments....45 miles away....without a car.

There is such a sickening disconnect between the wealthy leaders in Washington and the poor they have failed so miserably. While our standing in the world drops like a rock, members of Congress just polish up their (newly-mandatory) flag pins and call it good. They don`t even bother to pretend they have empathy, they just have to be sure they fine-tune their slogans.

Labeling simple common decency as some "liberal agenda" is laughable. I`ll tell you one thing...the poor people I know and am surrounded by have suffered terribly under our government`s nearly criminal neglect. We should be ashamed of ourselves and the people we elect. I don`t give a damn what Mika says on Morning Joe. What I do care about is the growing number of people struggling and trapped in poverty. Just think about how you`d feel if you thought your kids would go hungry because you didn`t have money to replace the alternator on the truck you use to get to work. If we truly cared as a nation, we`d demand a change in this empathy deficit and would settle for nothing less. Instead, we`re making excuses for bought-and-paid-for leaders who show up for fund raisers but ignore the Vietnam Vet living under the bridge or the despair at the end of the three-hour line at the unemployment office.

There`s a huge difference between change and lip service.

[sabrina 1]

82. Excellent heartfelt post, thank you for speaking up for the poor. So few do it any more.

[We People]

87. If we could rec posts, this should definitely be one

I hope everyone who read the OP also reads your post.

And the 1% think that they are suffering because they can't find enough ways to evade their fair share of the tax burden fast enough. We all know this, but it's particularly tragic that many leaders calling themselves Democrats have enabled them (at a faster and faster pace recently) to carry out this cruel hoax on those Americans who are really paying the price for it. Every time the post is moved to the right, Washington and the conventional media just adjusts and believes the lines they're being fed by the 1% (and those who have been bought off to support them).

Thank you for all that you took the time to say, and for the reminders of what we're up against & supposed to be about.

[rhett o rick]

91. .

[Dragonfli]

92. I like your post better

We are definitely on the same team

[ancianita]

69. You're fine. I'm with you as a progressive social Democrat. I'm for constantly confronting the DLC-

Wasserman-Schultz types on their bribe/vote ratio calculations when it comes to The People's business; I'm for demanding party financial support of any progressive candidate list in return for progressive vote blocks. We need to support all progressive primarying candidates, spread donation and contact links around to those in the party who want to see a left shift in our lifetime. Our numbers can swing the difference in any national election. Ideally, I want to see a Democratically controlled House, Senate, with Sanders and Warren elected in 2016.

[840high]

73. Bravo. We need more

like you.

[forestpath]

74. K&R I'm with you. Anyone who isn't is not a Democrat.

[annabanana]

76. They only call it "Class Warfare" when we fight back. . . . .n/t

[JDPriestly]

77. K&R. Dragonfli.

[Riley18]

79. Well said! Totally agree with you.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

80. Maybe all of us should thank (or blame) our teachers who taught us to value principles.

[woo me with science]

84. Dragonfli,

thank you for bringing this discussion back to exactly where it needs to be.

[BobbyBoring]

86. Doing the 12:45 AM EST kick! Please keep kicking this

I couldn't have said it better myself. (Lying to myself). I couldn't begin to put in to words our situation that you grasp and elaborate on so clearly!

A tip of the hat to you Dragonfli

[jsr]

89. Politicians who don't give a rat's ass about whether you live or die

don't deserve your support. In fact, they deserve to be defeated.

[We People]

90. Thank you, Dragonfli

There is strength, compassion, and clarity in what you say. I hope there are many more out there like you - probably there are, but they don't have a voice.

[piratefish08]

97. best post I've read all week

thanks

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

99. Best thread in a long time

From the OP to the well thought out responses. IMHO we need to educate ourselves deeper about the current situations we face today. We need to learn from history that our plight today is much like the events that happened at the end on the 1800's and early into the 1900's. Howard Zinn's, "A People's History of the United States" clearly outlines the struggles of those before us. Chapter 11, " Robber Barons and Rebels" bring to view our troubles are not unlike those of the "lower class" then. How did the government handle all the rebelliousness, general,strikes and dissent at that time?
They felt it was a good time for an external threat to jell the people towards nationalism.
Quote from the book- Chapter 12- "The Empire and The People", "Theodore Roosevelt wrote to a friend,in the year 1897: "In strict confidence....I should welcome almost any war, for I think this country needs one."
Could North Korea be the tool here? Will we fall for the idea of war as a cause again? Just thinking, hope in wrong.
Again thanks for the post.

[Egalitarian Thug]

116. Our plight today is the far end of an unbroken chain of actors and events going

back to those days Dr. Zinn wrote of in his books. There has always been a class war in this nation, and it has always been prosecuted by the ruling class.

Another for this excellent post.

[raouldukelives]

100. K&R Great post, as usual! nt

[MannyGoldstein]

101. "Cowards all really, making easy decisions"

Your post is a masterpiece, I am humbled by its truth and power.

It is not serious, pragmatic, or brave to cause more people to suffer and die in poverty because it is referred to flippantly as "eating peas" or "being adult". It is not pragmatic even when the ones shipping away the jobs or destroying welfare "feel your pain". It never was bravery, but cowardice. It is not balanced when an increasing number of people fall into poverty and die while others become wealthier at an exponential rate.

[midnight]

102. Those w/ the luxuries of job, home, health care, vs those who don't reveals how being comfortable

is only for those who serve a political office, have a good paying job, are able to pay health care bills, afford a roof over their head... And that those who are jobless are to blame and their for are not worthy of help and should pull themselves up by their own boot straps....

I read that Margret Thatcher was the Grandmother of the Austerity movement....

[MotherPetrie]

103. K&R

[haikugal]

104. This OP and all the

beautiful expressions of solidarity on this thread have brightened my day! I'm with you completely...we can do this, I know we can. We have to...once the Boomers are gone our children and grands will be at their mercy. I view politicians, the MSM etc. as all of a piece when it comes to feathering their own nests and laying the groundwork for our new slavery and grinding poverty in an authoritarian, fascist system. We have to fight back but I hope everyone knows it will not be bloodless. I remember the 60's all too clearly to think otherwise.

[Lifelong Protester]

107. Giving this a Sunday K & R

You express this well. I am with you.

[G_j]

110. K&R

I have never much suffered from misplaced loyalty. There are individuals I feel various degrees of loyalty to, determined by their actions. Becoming an anti-war activist during Vietnam, I suppose I wized up early.
I am a registered Dem who votes for Dems but I don't sign a contract when I vote. The winners supposedly make a contract with us.




http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misplaced_loyalty

Misplaced loyalty (or mistaken loyalty, misguided loyalty or misplaced trust) is loyalty placed in other persons or organisations where that loyalty is not acknowledged or respected; is betrayed or taken advantage of. It can also mean loyalty to a malignant or misguided cause.

Social psychology provides a partial explanation for the phenomenon in the way "he norm of social commitment directs us to honor our agreements. People usually stick to the deal even though it has changed for the worse".Humanists point out that "an inherits the capacity for loyalty, but not the use to which he shall put it may unselfishly devote himself to what is petty or vile, as he may to what is generous and noble".

[Egalitarian Thug]

111. K&R for the weekend. More and more of us are coming to this understanding every day. n/t

[LWolf]

112. K&R

[DeSwiss]

114. K&R

[Rex]

115. Not my place to judge you.

I respect you and your words, they carry weight.