Some people really, really need to get a life:

[hedgehog]

SALMON, Idaho -- A transgender woman whose use of a women's restroom in an Idaho grocery store reportedly upset other customers has been cited for trespassing and banned from the store for a year, police said on Friday.

A Rosauers supermarket in Lewiston asked police to charge 25-year-old Ally Robledo, who was born male but identifies as female, with the misdemeanor trespass charge on Monday, Lewiston Police Captain Roger Lanier said.

"The store security officer said he had been dealing with a problem over a couple days with the person going into the women's restroom and urinating while standing up," Lanier said.

He added that the store had reported that Robledo's use of the restroom made other female customers "very uncomfortable."

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/13/17733363-transgender-woman-banned-from-idaho-grocery-store-over-restroom-use?lite


Every women's rest room I've ever been in has stalls with doors around the toilets. Who the hell goes into the bathroom and checks under the doors to see if the other person is peeing sitting down or standing up? Who the hell cares? If anything, I think Ms. Robledo is the one with the right to complain of invasion of privacy!

One can only conclude that in Lewiston, Idaho, (population 32,000), the lack of entertainment is so dire that going to the grocery store to take a pee is a major event in some people's day!

[Buzz Clik]

1. You can tell instantly if someone is standing or sitting while taking a leak:

1) The sound in distinctive.
2) You probably can see his head above the stall
3) Peeing while standing puts you closer to the stall door, and the feet will be instantly visible to those out of the stall.

It seems to me that Robledo was looking for a problem and found it. How hard would it be to simply drop the drawers, turn around, and sit? Wouldn't the effort be worth the lack of hassle? (I need some education on this, but if he identifies with being a woman, wouldn't that include sitting to pee? I really don't know.)

[Cooley Hurd]

2. Looking for a problem?

They're self-identified as a female. They look (with their clothes on) like a female. They act as a female. They are a female, despite their junk.

Why did he stand? Perhaps the toilet seat, like most in public places, was utterly disgusting.

[Buzz Clik]

6. For days in a row?

You could be right. I really don't know, but women deal with this every time they use a public toilet.

[Cooley Hurd]

8. I sit when I pee when I'm home...

...and I'm a dude (it is SOO less-messier). HOWEVER, I stand in public toilets that lack a urinal. Everytime.

[Buzz Clik]

14. So, you know -- the sound is distinct, right? Sitting vs standing?

[Cooley Hurd]

24. Sounds do not make me homophobic.

[Buzz Clik]

27. That wasn't my question, but don't worry about it.

[Brickbat]

4. The people who are looking for a problem are those who listen carefully to other people peeing.

[Buzz Clik]

11. Let me get the other half's opinion on this.

She is a gay rights advocate of the first order, but she is also pretty aware of how women would react. And, best of all, she is more than happy to tell me when I'm full of crap.

[Posteritatis]

15. There is no other half, just bigots freaking out over nothing. (nt)

[Buzz Clik]

19. That's pretty misguided, and your comment is misplaced.

[enlightenment]

26. So, Buzz . . .

based on your comments thus far, it begins to look like you have an issue with transgender people using public toilets.

Does your gay-rights supporter spouse get freaked out when a trans-woman uses the women's toilet in a public place? Do you get freaked out when a trans-man uses the men's toilet?

You seem to be dancing around how you feel about this issue with a lot of talk about how pee sounds different depending on the height it drops before it hits the bowl.

It is neither misguided nor misplaced to suggest that people who are get freaked out at the idea of a trans-person being in "their" toilet are behaving like bigots. They are.

[Buzz Clik]

30. I was waiting for that. It was inevitable.

I do not have an issue with transgender people at all. Period.

You're getting all worked up looking for a big fight. Find another partner.

[enlightenment]

32. Okay.

Question answered.

[Buzz Clik]

22. Ok. Here's the bottom line from the woman of the house:

1) She doubts she would be paying enough attention to know who is doing what next to her.
2) If she discovered it was a guy standing and peeing next to her, she wouldn't care.
3) After living with so many males all her life, she no longer feels a need for privacy while peeing. (She seldom closes the door).
4) She also went on to say that the reaction to who uses the restroom is a very personal thing and may or may not reflect one's opinion about gay rights or whatever. If somebody tends to close the bathroom door and lock it while peeing at home, then that person will care a lot about who is peeing beside her. If you pee with the door open, you probably won't care at all.

So, there you go.

[enlightenment]

5. As noted,

women are capable of peeing standing up.

And what is it that men do in toilets, that you "can tell instantly" by sight and sound (really? sound?) if someone is peeing seated or standing?

Why do you care enough to know that?

[Buzz Clik]

12. What an odd question.

I don't "care" enough to know, I simply observe. Having constantly lived with women -- usually more than one -- it's good to know who is in the can. A guy won't care if I charge in to get my razor; a woman would. It takes about 10 seconds to train your ear.

[enlightenment]

20. Hey,

You're the one who brought up the "odd" topic of knowing whether or not someone is standing. Don't blame me if I follow up with the obvious question of why you would care enough to figure out that very precise list of "clues". That's deflecting from your statements.

As for living with women - usually more than one - wouldn't it follow that if the door is shut, someone is using the facilities? I've always found that knocking works, rather than "charging in", but your mileage obviously varies.

[Buzz Clik]

23. I didn't bring it up! It's inherent in the OP!

I simply am stating that figuring out if the person peeing is standing or sitting is trivial.

[enlightenment]

29. If I could put the

rolling eyes smilie in the reply title, I would.



Sheesh.

[MH1]

54. Just curious, does that explain

why sometimes the seats in the women's lav are so freakin' messy? I don't think we have that many transgender folk at our office, and I don't really care, but it amazes me to see the mess that some people will leave on the seat. Always wondered what was going on. (And yes, they have seat covers there, and it doesn't take a whole lot of time, effort, or intellect to wad up some tp and wipe the seat down before putting the cover on it, and sitting like a normal gal; or wiping it off when you're done if you make a mess. But apparently someone just doesn't want to be bothered, and prefers leaving grossness for the next person. I doubt that it's a transgender person and I don't really care. It's a slob whatever their parts are.)

[enlightenment]

57. Couldn't tell you why -

it is true that public toilets are often scary places.

I suspect that if a woman is leery of sitting down, she's also more inclined to not want to leave a mess for the next person, since she has a heightened sense of cleanliness to start - but that's a guess. I can't speak to the apparently growing number of women who squat on the toilet seat (I say growing because I'm seeing more and more dirty footprints). Then there are the cell phone users (why anyone would want to advertise they are on the toilet is beyond me, but there are many who do) - I doubt they spend much time cleaning up after themselves, since they are involved in a conversation; hard enough to reconfigure clothing while holding a phone to your ear, I suppose.

It would be nice if people were more courteous; who cares what method they use - or what equipment they have - as long as they don't leave a mess for the next person to navigate. That includes sinks, too.

[niyad]

7. if you can see the head of the person in any stall I have ever seen--that person is probably

playing for some basketball team, since most of the stalls I have seen are at least 7 ft. peeing while standing puts you close to the stall door? really??

if I see the feet pointing the other direction, which I would only notice if I were bending down to get something from my purse, I would assume that individual was putting down the seat guard. honestly, some people really need a life.

[Buzz Clik]

17. Maybe the build the women's stalls really tall for some reason.

I've held conversations eye-to-eye over stalls in a men's room.

Tell you what -- I'll take pictures in the men's room. When urinals are occupied, guys use the open stalls. You can tell instantly if the guy is up or down in the stall. Instantly, without bending over.

[HappyMe]

25. Stall doors in ladies rooms

do tend to be pretty tall.

Some have a coat hook on them. They made the doors taller, put the coat hook towards the middle of the door. Women were reaching over the top of the door and snatching purses.

[Life Long Dem]

9. Missing the toilet bowl as men do, would be another sign.

And then you have the toilet seat left up condition. Not that restrooms have residential style toilets, but do have seats. That's why I always close the seat with the seat cover. If I have to make sure the seat is down before leaving, I just close the whole thing. This way instead of not sitting on the bowl, women sit on the cover by mistake. Don't walk into the bathroom without looking at the toilet. Men always look - I don't wonder why. Why should I be the only one who needs to be concerned about the seat cover? Looks better too with the cover down. Yes, I've been blamed before for leaving the toilet seat up.

[Buzz Clik]

18. You may have hit on the real problem:

The women were annoyed because he peed all over the floor, left the toilet seat up, and didn't replace the roll of paper.

[Life Long Dem]

21. Too many women fell in the toilet bowl

Even though I don't believe someone wouldn't look at the toilet in a "restroom" before sitting. I do believe for women needing to put the seat down is a sign.

[hedgehog]

34. According to modern etiquette, any person should be referred to as how they self-identify -

in this case, she should be called a she!

I'm up on these things only because my gay daughter is fighting for transgender rights!

[Buzz Clik]

38. Sorry.

I can be a bit of a knuckledragger at times. "She." Got it.

[hedgehog]

39. Like I said, the only reason I know is my activist daughter!

[Buns_of_Fire]

36. Or worse still, put it on overhand instead of underhand. Or vice versa.

Or worst of all, used up the last of the roll and didn't tell anyone that there were no spare rolls left in the bathroom. That's a hangin' offense in these parts, pardner.

[snooper2]

41. public women restrooms are nastier than their male counterparts..

Studies have been done on this---

+ Years of cleaning them I learned. First job at McDonalds in Fenton MO we always flipped to see who got the mens and who got the womans LOL...

[snooper2]

40. I like to sit down and pee, I'm lazy though LOL

Is this a pee thread?

[Buzz Clik]

43. This is a pee subthread.

If I wake in the middle of the night with a peeing need, I always opt for sitting. Peeing in the dark with a cloudy brain is a formula for disaster.

[snooper2]

45. Plus my daughter is three, so standing there swinging around isnt a good idea..

A few weeks back one of her little friends Chase was peeing in the bathroom during a little party, she came to me, I want to pee standing up LOL..

No honey...

[liberalhistorian]

46. So what? Who the hell

goes looking and listening in restrooms for how someone else is using the toilet? And why the hell should anyone else care? The last thing I give a shit about (pun intended) when I'm in a public restroom is how others I don't even know are relieving themselves of nature's call, and I don't even care if I DO know them. Unless they're beating their child in the stall, I not only could not care less, it's none of my goddamned businesss.

The only ones looking for a problem are those who care so much about how others they don't even know are peeing in a public restroom. They need to look for a damned life instead.

[Buzz Clik]

52. This thread clearly has no relevance to you at all.

But, just as clearly, there are women who care.

[liberalhistorian]

55. Then they need to get a life and focus

on far more important things than how someone in a public restroom is using a toilet.

[Buzz Clik]

56. On the other hand, we have separated our bathrooms according to gender.

Do you feel that the lines have been so blurred that we need to abandon the practice of Men's and Women's restrooms?

[CalFresh]

50. Good call.

Sitting down to take a pee in a public restroom would be the first thing he would do if he wanted to be seen as a woman.

[idwiyo]

58. It's SHE. She is a woman. I am a woman too, and I NEVER sit down in a public restroom.

I use Wiz. Does it mean I want to be seen as a man or should I use male restrooms in case some bigot might get all hot and bothered about it?

[dsc]

51. I know you are taking a lot of crap for this

but you are quite right on the sound. Unless the stander is a child the sound will be very different since it falls from a much higher height.

[enlightenment]

3. A lot of women pee standing up

in public toilets. Sometimes those seats are entirely too scary to contemplate getting intimate with them.

I agree with you; Ms Robledo should ask some very public and very hard questions as to HOW the store knew she was standing. Do they really peek under the doors? And what does "over a couple of days" mean? Was she going into the toilet every day? I doubt it; this story just screams of another concerted effort to discriminate.

[99Forever]

10. Must be one hell of a contagous ...

... nose problem in SALMON, Idaho. Remind me not to stop there to piss or anything else.

All bigots are assholes.

[niyad]

13. apart from all the other issues, is that the only supermarket in town? does being barred from it

mean ms. robledo has to go out of town to shop?

the solution is unisex bathrooms. heck, even this benighted state has them.

years ago, the attendants at some of the casino restrooms told me that some women squatted on the seats, so to look carefully. had never heard that before, but learned to check the seats!!

observation from carroll "toddy" todd in "victor, victoria", "there is no law that says a man cannot pee sitting down."

[HappyMe]

16. Good grief!

These people have nothing better to do?

Bigoted asshats, mind your own business.

[GoneOffShore]

28. The good folks of Lewiston would have a real problem in Europe.

I've seen female restroom attendants/cleaners working in the gents toilet while guys are standing at the urinal. My wife has seen male attendants/cleaners in the women's while people were in the stalls.

No big whoop.

[hedgehog]

31. This thread is going to drive me crazy all day -

My Irish immigrant grandfather had a little instruction ditty for teaching males how to pee quietly- my mother used to tell it to my brothers -

It started out with "water on water....."

but danged if I can recall the rest!

[RudynJack]

35. Is it...

water on water is everyone can hear
water on porcelain is soft to the ear

[hedgehog]

37. That's it!

DU always delivers!

[niyad]

33. unisex restrooms are the only answer. quite frankly, I don't care who is in the next stall, unless

we are talking "wide stance" craig", who was there before me, or who will be there after me. some people seriously need to get their own lives.

[sufrommich]

42. Frankly, I would imagine it's much more dangerous

for a trans woman to walk into a men's bathroom than a women's bathroom.We're I a trans woman,I would take my chances on offending a few ignorant women than I would risking assault in a men's bathroom. Trans women should be allowed in women's bathrooms,they are women.

[gollygee]

48. That's always been my feeling too

I've seen trans women in the women's room and always felt they were in the right place. I can't imagine expecting them to go to the men's room. Where would a trans woman best fit in as far as bathrooms go? It seems the answer is pretty clearly the women's room, regardless of the sitting/standing issue. The stalls close. No one has to worry about sitting or standing.

[brewens]

44. Who goes to a large store like that and uses the bathroom four days

in a row? It sounds like someone intentionally trying to push the issue with Rosauers. Maybe this person was giving others using that bathroom a good reason to feel "very uncomfortable"? It might just be a little freaky to go out of your way, wanting to be in that bathroom at that store and they realized that.

Even if you were on foot in that area and needed a bathroom, there are several businesses around that would be more convenient. I live in Lewiston. Within a block there are two gas station/convenience stores and a restaurant/bowling alley.

[Cleita]

49. They were probably camping upstream, once of the few places where developed

campgrounds are few. Having camped there, I have seen people with a small porta potties drape tarps around an area for privacy. Mostly, though they go into the woods to relieve themselves. Probably that person wasn't comfortable with using the nearest bush for a loo and the store was an alternative. You should explore your own state more. This area is very wild yet you can drive into Ketchum within an hour and have all the French dining and Gucci experience you want.

[Cleita]

47. Ever been in Salmon? They are pretty backwards there. They were one of the last

cities in the USA to get landline service for their telephones, I believe around the eighties. They literally live in the nineteenth century. I've been there several times because it was one of my late husband's fishing places up stream that is. Up until then they dialed the operator. I'm surprised that a transgendered person wasn't beaten up every day even before the bathroom incident unless she was just a tourist passing through.

[Zorra]

53. Transsexuals who have had Gender Reassignment Surgery are able to get the gender marker on their

birth certificates changed to their real gender, which generally enables them to use their gender appropriate bathroom without any legal problems. Transsexuals who have not had GRS generally cannot get the gender marker on their birth certificates changed to their real gender.

This appears to me to often lead to a problem of inequity of legal rights due to economic circumstances.

What I mean here is, transsexuals who can afford GRS generally have the legal right everywhere to use their gender appropriate restroom, while transitioned transsexuals who may desire GRS, but who are not wealthy enough to be able to afford GRS, are frequently denied the same legal rights as post-GRS transsexuals.

One solution to this inequity would be for the US to adopt a system of universal public health care, and make transition/GRS costs available to anyone who feels these processes are necessary to their health and well being.

I use the older term transsexual here because it is a more specific term than transgender. The spectrum of the term transgender is very broad, while transsexual is relatively narrow, more specific to the transgender person who desires to make full transition and GRS to allow them to feel more comfortable in living socially as a member of the gender to which they were actually born, but which is not readily apparent to others.

The restroom issue is a widespread legal nightmare for transgenders in many states at this time; I have two TG girlfriends who recently had legal issues obstruct their basic right to use their gender appropriate restroom.

[jmowreader]

59. I will agree with your conclusion

There are exactly two forms of entertainment in Lewiston: going to one or more of the 150 churches they have, or doing meth.