If one more person calls my hard earned Social Security an Entitlement. ...

[trumad]

I will reach through the internet tubes and choke them until they turn blue.

It's not a God Damn entitlement, I PAID FOR IT!

[Robb]

1. You paid for it, you're entitled to it.

(ducks)

[trumad]

2. me thinks that's not what they mean.

[NightWatcher]

3. Straight out of Orwell, they've taken over the language

And that is not double plus good.

[marybourg]

80. Aided and abetted by DUers apparently, if the OP is not just

pulling our legs.

[whathehell]

26. Agreed. The word now carries negative connotations, unfortunately, thanks to Right Wing World.

and it's hideous, but significant impact on this country.

To many, It now conveys a sort of arrogance, as in "He's thinks he's entitled".

[Cleita]

33. That's right. The new version of the word "entitlement" is that unworthy people

feel entitled to what doesn't belong to them.

[whathehell]

36. Yes, no one, in a RW dominated society, it seems, is "entitled" to anything except the Uber-rich.

Unless we have at least a million in the bank, the rest of shouldn't even retire.

We should just keep working 'til we drop.

[earthside]

11. Exactly.

Of course, it is an entitlement.

An individual is entitled to use anything they have earned, paid for, or contractually bargained for.

You 'earn' two weeks vacation per year, you are entitled to take the days off.

Sometimes I think progressives too easily let the right manipulate the language ... in this case, I would stick to that line: I paid for it, I'm entitled to it. Frankly, that sounds almost conservative to me, why let the anti-Social Security gang twist the truth all up?

[CTyankee]

65. But what they will say is that you really "didn't" pay your way. They will say that today

you are reaping twice as much in benefits as you paid in.

[Common Sense Party]

79. It absolutely IS an entitlement, and there's nothing wrong with saying so.

In fact, we shoul be saying so very loudly and often.

[Newest Reality]

4. You haven't been

checking the Newspeak dictionary:

new•speak ('nü-"spEk, 'nyü-), noun, Usage: often capitalized. : propagandistic language marked by euphemism, circumlocution, and the inversion of customary meanings. Etymology: Newspeak, a language "designed to diminish the range of thought," in the novel 1984 (1949) by George Orwell. Date: 1950

http://www.newspeakdictionary.com/ns-dict.html

Are you not entitled to your entitlements? Or are your entitlements what you are not entitled to? Both? Neither?

They play with the language as they please and to a certain end.

[Dragonfli]

75. Excellent post, you explain exactly what has happened with that label

Both points of view can be said to be correct, it is a description that by definition could be used to accurately describe earned benefits, but in all truth it is a right wing label carefully manipulated and used to deride the program and it's recipients.

It also sounds better when suggesting it should be cut.

[Newest Reality]

86. Thanks

for noting that.

Noam Chomsky has pointed this out in another way:

He said that there are two meanings of a word, (like Democracy). There is the usual, dictionary definition, and there is the "technical" meaning.

Keeping an eye on that makes it stand out more when you see how it is used.

[Joel thakkar]

5. You have PAID FOR IT

but not all those receiving the benefits have paid for it.

[sabrina 1]

12. And that is relevant how?? This country is a 'society'. The goal is to take care of all those who

cannot take care of themselves.

Dependent children, eg, receive benefits from SS but have not yet paid into it. Would you like to remove them from the pool?

Do you agree with insurance? A relatively few people ever benefit from the money they pay in.

Maybe we should abolish all insurance? Let everyone fend for themselves, like Somalia eg?

[Joel thakkar]

31. The problem is your assumptions

I was just saying that as some people doesn't pay for it, it becomes an entitlement to them. I never said that i am against that.


Why do you assume that i don't want dependent children to receive benefits in SS? Why do you assume that i am against insurance?


I am all for more social security benefits to the poor but i am against few spouses of millionaires/billionaires who enjoys lavish life , who never had a job for a single day in their life, outsources all household chores for his/her whole life and over to that has millions for retirement but still receives benefits.

[Oilwellian]

90. No, it is a benefit

Social Security provides benefits to surviving families. NOT entitlements.

[whathehell]

29. Not all those receiving Social Security have "paid for it"?

Since when?

[SammyWinstonJack]

72. So?

[TreasonousBastard]

6. No you didn't...

you paid for your parents' SS. Someone else is paying for yours.

Regardless of trust funds or whatever, it was set up as a pay-as-you-go program and whatever juggling has gone on since was intended to make up for shortfalls when the recipients outnumber the workers.

It's normal that most people who yack on about SS and other programs don't really understand them, but there really are enough other things going on about it to get upset about.

An entitlement is defined as pretty much anything you get that you don't have a fundamental right to. SS is given to us by law, not as a Constitutional right, hence it is an entitlement. SS itself calls it an entitlement when asked.

Flame on...

[whathehell]

32. Yes he did, at least if he's been working since 1982 when Social Security underwent an overhaul

That decreased benefits decreased benefits and significantly increased money going into the fund. This was

done in anticipation of Baby Boomer retirements.

Prior to that, people had been paying for their parents SS. After, those working from the early

eighties onward were paying for their parents Social Security AND their own, so that those of us

working since then have paid double, reinforcing the justification for NOT cutting us now.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Reagan%2C+Moynihan%2C+Greenspan+social+security+1982&sitesearch=

[SammyWinstonJack]

73. Thank you for pointing that out. So many are unaware of that little fact.

[JDPriestly]

71. The word, "entitle" comes from the French entitler

meaning to "give a title to."

The Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology, Oxford University Press (1966). Etymology does not change over time.

When you own something, you have a title to it. When you record your ownership in a property with the government of the county in which you live, you "record your title." When you sell a property that you own, you transfer the "title."

We normally think of an entitlement to land as existing because of a transfer of ownership from one who previously had the title to one who is now the owner and therefore now entitled to claim to own the title to the land.

Entitlements belong to the people who have their title, the people who own them. Same with Social Security.

The people who paid into Social Security are very much entitled to the benefits, their compensation from it. They own the fund and are entitled to their pay.

It's like an insurance policy. You pay the premiums and when a qualifying event occurs the insurer pays you.

Here, you pay your premiums in the form of payroll taxes as you work and when you hit retirement age, you are entitled to your benefits. The money belongs to you. It does not belong to the insurer or the US government when a qualifying event occurs.

Anybody who refers to Medicare and Social Security as "entitlements" implying that people who are receiving benefits from those programs are getting some form of charity or welfare are simply wrong. They do not know what the word "entitlement" means.

[Autumn]

7. The thing is, it's perfectly fine and acceptable to cut entitlements.

Stealing from your retirement savings account doesn't play too well.

[bike man]

8. And are you not entitled to it? Entitle, entitlement, entitled - all related.

http://grammarist.com/usage/methinks/

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=methinks

links for usage of 'methinks' ( as opposed to me thinks)

[avaistheone1]

21. Wrong.

Never mind that the very word "entitlement" is a lie. Social Security and Medicare got that name because workers became "entitled" to those benefits by paying into the system. In recent years, however, the term has become distorted to signify benefits people are entitled to without earning them.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/08/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20130310

[bike man]

56. Not necessarily wrong at all

It is not that hard to find articles that refer to being "entitled" to Medicare/Social Security/et al. Even the Social Security website uses the word.

http://www.seniorcorps.org/medicare/what-is-medicare-entitlement/

<snip> “. . .Medicare is a system of health care that is provided by the government of the United States of America to its citizens who are above the age of 65 years. Medicare entitlement refers to the rights to qualify for a Medicare cover. There are several factors that are considered in determining Medicare entitlement. If you are a worker, you require at least 40 credits to qualify for Medicare entitlement. . .” (Bolding/underline mine, not in the article)

It is true that the author of the LA Times article refers to 'distortion', that does not negate the fact that "entitlements" such as SS/Medicare are given to people who are "entitled" to them, and quite likely some who are not via fraud and/or error.

[randome]

9. It IS an entitlement. Anything you are owed is an entitlement.

You are not entitled, however, until you meet all the eligibility requirements.

The whole concept of 'cutting' entitlements is wrong.

(Please don't choke me.)

[sabrina 1]

14. The word has been used to convey the idea that people are NOT entitled to it, but have an

unwarranted 'sense of entitlement'. But everyone knows that already.

We do not have a 'sense of entitlement.

Are insurance policies ever called 'entitlement' programs?

Is your auto insurance policy called an 'entitlement' program?

[duffyduff]

16. That's a bogus argument and makes people look silly.

The Social Security Act refers to entitlements.

You paid into it, you are legally entitled to it.

"Old age insurance" isn't welfare and isn't means-tested.

[whathehell]

34. True, but you may have noticed how many "bogus arguments" get play now,

thanks to corporate/Right Wing spin.

[sabrina 1]

40. No, it is not a bogus argument. The right wing uses the 'sense of entitlement' framing of the word

to denigrate beneficiaries who earned it. Your argument is bogus. Why do you think that Rush Limbaugh et al always use that framing?

Do you think they are ignorant of the wording? No, they are using it as a 'sense of entitlement' framing and anyone who doesn't know that hasn't been around politics very much.

Alan Simpson took it to the extreme, Obama's choice for Chair of the Deficit Commission, when he called beneficiaries 'greedy old geezers' who had no right to be collecting what they paid into. They had a 'sense of entitlement' they have no right to have.

So stop the nonsense, most of us were not born yesterday.

[whathehell]

59. Thank you...It looks like a lot of people here

don't get nuance.

[sabrina 1]

61. Or don't want to!

[whathehell]

63. Yep, that's also possible,

[randome]

17. I used to work for Social Security.

So I know the difference between 'eligible' and 'entitled'.

But you're right, the word 'entitlement' has been corrupted by Republicans into another scary-sounding word, like 'card-carrying liberal' from the 80's.

Too many corporations think they are 'entitled' to welfare because, well, they filed the papers to be incorporated!

We should all get behind a handful of loopholes to close per year and then we wouldn't need to even TOUCH the entitlements of individuals.

[avaistheone1]

22. Randome that is a distortion used by the right.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/08/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20130310

[randome]

42. The actual definition of 'entitlement' is that you are owed something.

The Right has perverted the word to mean something nefarious.

[MattBaggins]

10. Earned Benefit

[duffyduff]

15. Entitlement = Earned Benefit

You are making a distinction without a difference.

[MattBaggins]

18. Words matter

[randome]

19. This is the difference.

'Earned benefit' means you have met the requirements to receive benefits in the future.
'Entitled' means you have met the requirements AND you have filed to receive your 'earned benefit'.

It's a slight distinction but it's there.

[duffyduff]

13. Take it up with FDR.

The Social Security Act itself refers to SS as an "entitlement."

You do know what an "entitlement" is, don't you? If you paid into something, you are legally entitled to it.

It is not so-called "welfare" which is means-tested. SS "old age insurance" is not means-tested.

Silly semantic games make people look petty.

[lumberjack_jeff]

20. "You paid for it" ergo you are "entitled" to the benefit.

Rocket science 101

[avaistheone1]

27. You don't necessarily pay for welfare

but you are entitled to the benefit.

Social Security you pay for, it is an insurance program, an investment.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/08/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20130310

[OnionPatch]

23. The word "entitlement"

was morphed into a dirty word via the popularity of the saying "He just thinks he's entitled to.....<whatever>", when the person really isn't, the saying usually meaning the person has an unjust sense of privilege. However, the word entitled only means you have something coming to you that you earned or somehow otherwise deserve. It's not really wrong to say you're entitled to your Social Security benefits. You paid for them, so you truly are entitled to receive them.

It's disgusting the way they label things to make them sound bad, though.

[Rex]

24. You paid for the people now in retirement

I agree...if it is an entitlement...then WHY am I paying into it? Sometimes you cannot fix stupid trumad.

[forestpath]

25. K&R

[Gormy Cuss]

28. It's an entitlement.

You're entitled to it by law.

[Hoyt]

30. You are entitled to monthly benefits, except when the SS fund runs out. Then you are screwed.

[whathehell]

38. The SS fund is solvent for at least another 25 years...After that, it pays 75 percent of benefits.

Social Security was actually overhauled in 1982, in anticipation, supposedly, of

the Baby Boomer's retiring. Those of us working since 1982 have actually paid about DOUBLE

of what previous generation did -- hence the odious nature of current talk about "cuts".

http://www.google.com/search?q=Reagan%2C+Moynihan%2C+Greenspan+social+security+1982&sitesearch=

[Hoyt]

39. Assuming actuarial projections are correct, what you gonna do in 25 years with 25% cut?

Truthfully, I think the economy won't live up to the actuarial projections, but we won't know for awhile.

Plus, as we approach that short-fall, when ever it is, other bad stuff will happen.

We have people raising holy heck about a relatively small reduction in COLA -- despite significant improvements in Medicare drug coverage, preventive services, etc.. How do you think these folks are going to react when our government is finally forced to be honest with us? I think the last few weeks are a pretty good indicator.

[whathehell]

43. We have a fair amount of time to think about that, don't you think?

There IS that thing called "raising the cap".

Sorry, but I don't share your seeming enthusiasm for "going all in" twenty five years early,

to cut the benefits to Older Americans AND disabled vets, I might add.

I'm guessing you're not a disabled veterans and are a bit further away

than many here are from collecting Social Security benefits.

In twenty five years, a lot of us may well be dead.

[Hoyt]

46. That's it, let's keep kicking that can down the road. While I support raising the cap, Congress

will not support a 12% tax increase. And lifting the cap does not solve the entire short-fall because only 5% of workers make over the cap and benefits would go up for those paying tax above the cap. We could tax the living crud out of the rich -- which at times I support -- but that could be detrimental to the economy if excessive, and we do have other needs in this country for which any additional taxes could help solve. SS is not the only issue we have to deal with, although some folks seem to think so.

As one eligible for SS, I know that you can't just look at one little aspect to determine how seniors stand. Obama has pushed through improvements in the Medicare drug coverage, more "free" preventive services, etc., that are worth far more to seniors than the minor COLA adjustment that would occur in the unlikely event his proposal is enacted.

Why are you against money for jobs, education, etc., in his budget proposal so that youngsters -- who will be paying our benefits -- have a better chance? Unfortunately, with today's Congress, Obama's gotta do something different to get the GOP to budge. While we should be railing against the GOP, folks -- even those right here -- are bashing/weakening Obama for something a lot don't even understand.

But, yeah, let's just wait until 2030 and hope to hell Rand Paul and Paul Ryan types aren't the ones in a position to determine how we solve that 25% short-fall. You'll wish that Chained-CPI had been enacted years prior.

[whathehell]

57. If all you've got are RW talking points, I'd suggest you ask Mom & Dad to give up their benefits

'cause you and Obama are sure as HELL not getting mine!

"Why are you against money for jobs, education, etc., in his budget proposal so that youngsters -- who will be paying our benefits -- have a better chance"

Say WHAT?...First of all, it looks like you need to READ my post, since I've already EXPLAINED

how and why we boomers are paying, or already HAVE paid for both our benefits AND our parents benefits.


After that, you'll need to show me where I said I'm "against" money for jobs, education, etc".


Tell you what, honey, why don't you just jump on the Obama Love Boat, since it seems you'd

support ANYTHING he'd ask for, especially if it's not coming out of your pocket?

Don't like Social Security? As I said, go lecture YOUR family on it.

[Hoyt]

64. I might be on what you call the "Obama Love Boat." Enjoy your ride on the "Obama Hate Boat."

Jobs, education, etc., are all part of his proposal, but some folks can't see that.

I too paid in to SS, but I also know economic conditions and politics change.

If our economy does not recover -- and I think it will be a long time coming, especially if we don't get some jobs legislation passed soon -- we are all going to have to sacrifice, even if we take every penny from the wealthy.

[whathehell]

67. LOL!

Try again, honey...I probably donated MORE money to his campaign than you make in a week.

[madville]

82. They have moved the date up to 2033

So 20 years. Of course the next big crisis will be when the SSDI trust fund is exhausted by 2016. Under the law SSA can pull from the regular OASI trust fund so it does not have to reduce SSDI benefits at that time.

If SSDI starts drawing from the OASI trust fund to cover it's obligations they actually project all trust funds will be exhausted by around 2027, so 14 more years of solvency. It's all in the SSA 2012 annual report.

[whathehell]

88. Whatever...

I'm still not about to "cave" to the Republican wet dream.

[madville]

89. Ignore math and reality if you want

Things are going to get ugly the next few election cycles

[whathehell]

91. Ignore the "reality" that most here aren't interested in apologizing for this president again.

Things are already getting "ugly" here, I can see.

[B2G]

35. That's what I tried to point out when this place went nuts over Ayn Rand

But no one seemed to care then.

[santamargarita]

37. That's the fascist media and GOP branding.

[Lucky Luciano]

41. If you paid for it then you are entitled to it.

[grahamhgreen]

44. Insurance.

[AtheistCrusader]

45. That's not what it MEANS.

Stop letting the fucking republicans turn it into a pejorative.

It is an 'Entitlement' because it is fixed in law. Congress has to pass a law to alter the deal. It MUST be paid, per law. THAT is the context in which it is an entitlement. It is not a government program that can be adjusted or canceled on a whim.

[Jim Lane]

51. I half agree with you.

The part I agree with is that an "entitlement" is fixed in law. As you say, "Congress has to pass a law to alter the deal." By contrast, Boeing has no entitlement to get a new contract next year to build fighter planes or some such. We all know they will, because Congress will pass a military budget, but if no such action were taken then Boeing wouldn't get the money. With Social Security, if Congress does nothing, the payments continue year to year.

Here's the part I disagree with. Some people upthread are saying "You paid into it, you earned it, you have a legal right to it." You seem to echo that by writing, "It is not a government program that can be adjusted or canceled on a whim." Unfortunately, it can be. Congress could adjust it on a whim.

The holder of a Treasury note has a right to be paid and could sue the government, and win, if it passed a law nullifying all outstanding Treasury notes. The difference is that, if Congress passed a law cutting all Social Security benefits by 50%, or even eliminating the program entirely, no one would have a cause of action to get those benefits reinstated. It would just be tough luck on seniors.

The OP is reacting to the RW distortion of the term "entitlement". Objectively, it's an odd distortion, because it actually suggests greater legal obstacles to cutting Social Security than actually exist. That makes me think that we should jujitsu them. With some of their framing, like "death tax", we do best to ignore it. This one, though, I think we should use and try to put our own spin on. We have to counter this connotation of a false sense of entitlement by moochers who don't want to work and just want everything handed to them. We benefit from the alternative connotation -- you paid for it, you earned it, you're entitled to it, and any cut is the equivalent of theft.

In the technical way the term is used in budgeting, however, both connotations are wrong.

[indepat]

47. You're damn right: we all should be able to agree that we're

entitled to our full earned benefits.

[RebelOne]

48. I worked and paid into SS for over 50 years,

so I am ENTITLED to that money, and I am collecting it now. So reach through the internet tubes and choke me. It is an ENTITLEMENT.

[cthulu2016]

49. You could learn what words mean... but nah, the choking thing is better

[trumad]

50. oh to be as smart as you...

One can dream.

[Jamastiene]

52. K&R

[dionysus]

53. might want to look up entitlement in the dictionary...

[madrchsod]

54. agree....it`s mine and a lot other folks who paid into the system

the only people who are against medicare and social security are those who won`t be entitled because they never earned an income.

[whathehell]

58. What you said!

[RKP5637]

55. K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! n/t

[rdharma]

60. Ask them what "FICA" stands for. nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

62. Republicans aren't talking about Social Security when they say "entitlement"...

It's a dog whistle to their racist base. They're talking about that type of welfare nobody dares mention that's only for black people and is the #1 thing poor rural whites are paying for in their taxes.

[Warren Stupidity]

66. If one more person allows the right to redefine the meaning of words

I will reach out over the interludes and hand them a standard dictionary.

[trumad]

69. better post than mine.

[Dragonfli]

76. This post is better than both, and you are not wrong, you're both right.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2666275

[Progressive dog]

68. Mine's an entitlement and please stay calm, you don't want to get stuck.

It is, because I earned it and am entitled to it.

[GeorgeGist]

70. What part of entitle ...

ment do you not phucking understand?

[Nye Bevan]

74. Remember when "Obamacare" used to be a slur, before we claimed that term?

Let's do the same thing with "entitlement". After paying SS taxes for many years, I feel pretty damned entitled.

[Purveyor]

77. Bloodsucker...how dare you!

and godspeed. I'm with you on this.

[CBHagman]

78. Absolutely.

A friend of mine often uses the term social insurance, mostly because there are too many people ignorant of what Social Security really is.

But I hate the term entitlement. It puts a nasty anti-worker spin on things. What is up with this country when so many people regard survival, via some form of pension and affordable health care, as either a nice-to-have but not vital or, worse yet, something to begrudge their fellow citizens?

[Art_from_Ark]

81. Webster's New World Dictionary defines "entitlement" as follows:

"2. something to which a person is entitled, specifically, any of various benefits provided to qualifying persons under certain government programs, as Medicare."

An entitlement is not a hand-out.

[darkangel218]

83. "Poltergeist" style?

[Recursion]

84. It's a benefit set by formula

That's what "entitlement" means. You are legally entitled to it. Why does DU keep tripping over this?

[hobbit709]

85. Even here some do.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022670514

[Yo_Mama]

87. It's an entitlement - look it up in the dictionary

In English, "entitled" means that you have a right to it. For instance, when you buy a house, you get a title which is proof in court that the house belongs to you. To have a title to property means that you are "entitled" to something.

In the context of the Federal budget, "entitlement" programs are programs that cannot be legally cut under current law.

Of course, according to the SC no SS beneficiary actually does have title to their SS benefits - Congress can at any time change the program. But for now, you are entitled to those benefits under current law.

Here's the dictionary, my friend:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/entitled

[Ganja Ninja]

92. Definition of ENTITLEMENT

1 a : the state or condition of being entitled : right
b : a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract
2: a government program providing benefits to members of a specified group; also : funds supporting or distributed by such a program
3: belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/entitlement

An "entitlement" is exactly what it is because you paid for it.