General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSince President Obama's reelection, the top rate of income tax on the rich has increased by 4.6%.
The top rate of tax on interest income for the rich has increased by 8.4%.
The top rate of tax on capital gains for the rich has increased by 8.8%.
And much of these increases is dedicated to strengthening Medicare.
So perhaps President Obama is not a *complete* corporatist DINO sell-out.
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)It appears that mostly, they don't.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)that nothing good will come of the rate increases that Obama got on the rich. That the rich just won't pay the increases. Every single one will just not pay. Not just anecdotal bullshit. Facts with links to support them.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)it to happen.
neverforget
(9,436 posts)Sure that's great and all but that doesn't mean that it's okay for the C-CPI to be offered to Republicans.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)and Obama's budget proposal, read this.
Posted by another DUer to whom I give credit and my gratitude.
http://americablog.com/2012/05/pete-petersen-hosts-bill-clinton-paul-ryan-simpson-van-hollen-to-discuss-social-security-compromise
neverforget
(9,436 posts)it's about them, the 1%.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)think is going to buy their stuff and keep them in business and having the fun they somehow seem to have in selling junk to us.
I do not understand this. They are killing the geese that lay the golden eggs. They are supposed to be the smart ones. Don't they realize what they are doing?
Poverty oozes up. Wealth does not trickle down.
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)Bookmarking this for a read tomorrow.
Appreciate your sharing it.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)45% in 2013.
cap gains max = 25% (including the medicare surcharge).
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)a) from ACA, which passed in 2010, or
b) was automatic with the expiration of the Bush tax cuts
However, thanks to Obama
1. the rich still benefit from lower taxes on their first $400,000 in income (saving them about $12,000 a year in permanent tax cuts)
2. the rich pay lower tax rates on dividend income
3. the rich not only pay a lower rate on the estate tax (45% instead of 55%) but they enjoy several million more in exemptions on their estates
Of course, thanks to Congress, Obama was powerless to prevent those three things from happening. In order to stop all those tax cuts for the rich, Obama would have had to do - "nothing".
But the guy who campaigned in 2008 on the slogan "yes we can" was unable, even after his re-election, to do "nothing". Instead, he just had to pass $1.3 trillion in tax cuts for the top 5%.
But sure, why not give Obama credit for his failure to let the Bush tax cuts expire, and his failure to even attempt tax cuts that would benefit the working class. Let's pretend those tax cuts never happened and tell the idiot masses that Obama actually increased taxes on the rich. Most of them will be distracted and amazed at the fiery ball of lies and won't notice the facts behind the curtain.
IfPalinisAnswerWatsQ
(452 posts)Bravo.
Bra fucking vo!
merrily
(45,251 posts)Congress and Obama could have made them expire before that, on the ground of the extreme crisis we faced in January 2009, but they chose not to. So, they expired in accordance with their terms on 12/31/10.
At that point, Bush had no power to cut or raise taxes. He didn't try, either. As of January 1, 2011, though, the Obama tax cuts took effect. They were identical to the Bush tax cuts, but they had nothing to do with Bush.
I think it's useful to label them in a way that does not obscure that.
Marr
(20,317 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)budget was balanced.
And that is utterly no excuse for cutting Social Security, veterans' and other benefits.
Put the tax rate on the rich back to where it was before Bush fought his two wars and gave the rich their huge tax break.
Then we will watch our debt dwindle. And while we are done with it, tax capital gains, money hidden overseas and the incomes and bonuses of people on Wall Street.
Plus, get regulators who will come down hard on the banks and make sure they do not get the economy into any more trouble.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"It is still not as high as it was when Bush came into office and our
budget was balanced.
And that is utterly no excuse for cutting Social Security, veterans' and other benefits.
Put the tax rate on the rich back to where it was before Bush fought his two wars and gave the rich their huge tax break."
...they are higher. They're higher than Clinton's rates.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022660715
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I am suspicious of that article because that is the first time I have heard it said that Obama has achieved rates, passed rates on the rich that are as high as those Clinton had.
What about the capital gains taxes. Has Obama raised those on the rich?
And what about taxing Wall Street bonuses? Obama is not taxing carried interest or those bonuses, is he?
Obama is not closing the loopholes that need to be closed. A number of corporations pay no taxes. I do not know. Does Obama's budget close their loopholes?
If we are imposing taxes as high as they were under Clinton, then we should not be cutting Social Security, veterans' benefits and other programs with the chained CPI. It really should not be necessary.
We need to close bases overseas. We have a lot of bases we really do not need in this digital age.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"The link says that they are at best the same as Clinton's rates."
...it states that the health care tax is not included, which brings the rates higher than during Clinton's.
In fact on income, the top rates are higher than the 1990s.
"What about the capital gains taxes. Has Obama raised those on the rich? "
The OP includes that information.
And there are other proposals.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2664556
merrily
(45,251 posts)"What about the capital gains taxes. Has Obama raised those on the rich? "
The OP includes that information.
Yes, but without any source info.
"The individual mandate could be considered an Obamacare tax"
...for the two percent who decide to opt out, they can consider it a contribution to their own emergency care. If they have health coverage it doesn't apply.
merrily
(45,251 posts)possible.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)it ignores the fact that dividend income is now taxed at only 20% instead of the same as wage income, like it was under Clinton.
Also, it may depend on WHICH Clinton rates you use, considering that Clinton himself signed into law a big tax cut for the rich - in his 2nd term (so obviously he needed to do it so he could be re-elected).
In 2010, Mitt Romney had $4.9 million in dividend income. Instead of being taxed at 39.6%, it will be taxed at 20%, saving him almost a million a year. And those tax cuts are permanent, thanks to ATRA.
And no, in spite of what his supporters will claim, Obama did NOT raise capital gains taxes on the rich.
That did happen, automatically, on Obama's watch, when the Bush tax cuts expire.
But I guess that we should be glad Obama did not cut those rates, like he did with the estate tax rates, and then call it an increase, like he did with estate taxes.
Maybe Obama should get some credit for letting some of the Bush tax cuts expire. So I will give him 15%, which is about the percentage of the Bush tax cuts that expired.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"it ignores the fact that dividend income is now taxed at only 20% instead of the same as wage income, like it was under Clinton."
It's taxed at a higher rate because of the health care tax.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)but NOT a higher rate than 39.6%.
Not even close.
merrily
(45,251 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)
Also, it may depend on WHICH Clinton rates you use, considering that Clinton himself signed into law a big tax cut for the rich - in his 2nd term (so obviously he needed to do it so he could be re-elected).
Did you mean his 1st term? That is when he would have had to do it in order to help his re-election chances. I
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)I was just being sarcastic, because that is always the excuse conservadems use when one of their sell-outs betrays the working class and gives big bonuses to the rich, then they say "but, but, but, he/she needs to be re-elected."
Here's CTJ's analysis of it. A tax hike for the bottom 20% and 46.4% of the benefits going to the richest 5% and 77.9% (!!!) going to the richest 20% http://ctj.org/html/desc97.htm
merrily
(45,251 posts)I use sarcasm in my posts without using the symbol
that is always the excuse conservadems use when one of their sell-outs betrays the working class and gives big bonuses to the rich, then they say "but, but, but, he/she needs to be re-elected.
Yeah, no one who betrays the working class needs to be re-elected
Senator Sanford seems to have no trouble at all getting elected, even though his wiki describes him as Democratic Socialist. Go figure.
I need to pack it in. Although I am not totally sure of the literal meaning of that phrase, I mean that I need to stop posting.
Have a great--what is it when it's almost 3 am? Well, whatever it is, I wish you a great one.
merrily
(45,251 posts)The situation now is very different from 1992, even from 2000.
Additionally, Clinton balanced his budget in part because Reagan had raised taxes several times and Poppy once; and Presidents from Carter to Clinton had been deregulating apace.
The fiscal plus side of all those measure had built and built. And, then, when Clinton "ended welfare as we know it" lo and behold, a modest surplus.
merrily
(45,251 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)In the 50s and 60s,
the top rate was 91%, set by Republican President Dwight Eisenhower who insisted that the RICH pay their share of the National Debt.
The Top Rate was lowered to 70% in the mid-60s by JFK AFTER the War Debt was Paid Off.
The truth is,
today's "New Democrat" Party is fighting to Keep Taxes Historically LOW on the Rich,
especially when weighed against what is necessary to get us back on our feet again.
The Party leadership has done just enough to frame themselves as Taxing the Rich
without causing ANY distress to the very wealthy.
[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]
merrily
(45,251 posts)Iliyah
(25,111 posts)No House nor Senate, just him.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Check the date on the article. No House, no Senate, just him--and his love of DLC policies.
GeorgeGist
(25,311 posts)Why don't you live in the USA?