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Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 06:44 PM Apr 2013

"Frivolous lawsuit" opponent William Koch wins $12 million lawsuit over 24 bottles of wine

Billionaire William Koch wins $12 million in wine dispute

By Bernard Vaughan
NEW YORK | Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:29pm EDT
(Reuters) - A federal jury in New York on Friday awarded $12 million in punitive damages to U.S. billionaire William Koch in his dispute over the alleged misrepresentation of 24 bottles of wine he bought at auction.

Koch, 72, said he may use the proceeds to establish a fund to confront auction fraud and wine fraud.

snip

Koch filed a federal lawsuit in 2007, accusing Greenberg, the San Francisco-based founder of several Internet companies, of fraud and misrepresentation and seeking $320,000, the amount he paid for the 24 bottles.

snip

Koch, whose brother David Koch is a major supporter of conservative political causes, settled a separate lawsuit with the auction house in 2011, details of which were kept private.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/12/us-usa-court-wine-idUSBRE93B11C20130412

In other news the Koch Brothers will continue to use their right-wing think tanks to convince people to support tort reform in order to stop "frivolous lawsuits" against major polluters. They will also start another major campaign against poor people's wasteful spending habits while they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on wine.

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"Frivolous lawsuit" opponent William Koch wins $12 million lawsuit over 24 bottles of wine (Original Post) Bjorn Against Apr 2013 OP
What a silly asshole. Suing over overpriced wine? Cooley Hurd Apr 2013 #1
Tort reform is for thee (peons) not for me. PA Democrat Apr 2013 #3
Yes, the very people who scream for tort reform PA Democrat Apr 2013 #2
"says he may use the proceeds to establish a fund to confront auction fraud" 0rganism Apr 2013 #4
I feel bad for the 1%. There very nature makes them a target for fraud. rhett o rick Apr 2013 #5
Koch drank my pickup truck. GiveMeFreedom Apr 2013 #6
Nicely done! lexw Apr 2013 #40
K&R ....sonofa... ...Equal Justice Under Law..... n/t johnnyreb Apr 2013 #7
Purportedly from Hitler's personal collection or something? moondust Apr 2013 #8
Hold the bottle formercia Apr 2013 #9
off subject, that line reminded me of... louis-t Apr 2013 #22
True story formercia Apr 2013 #26
A thousand times? Then maybe he said it more than he did it. AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #41
I don't get your point formercia Apr 2013 #43
IMO, he was speaking somewhat with nostalgia after Oct 1939 because they were no longer married. AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #44
True, perhaps, but Hollywood is a different dimension. formercia Apr 2013 #45
Meanwhile 47of74 Apr 2013 #10
Oh no, you misunderstood him gollygee Apr 2013 #11
These assholes have no conscious. Initech Apr 2013 #12
He got the best justice money can buy. nt SunSeeker Apr 2013 #13
Justices. I'm sure he's bought more than one. nt valerief Apr 2013 #25
Kick. johnnyreb Apr 2013 #14
do as I say...not as I do ZRT2209 Apr 2013 #15
Wow, punitive damages that high over wine are imo excessive. cstanleytech Apr 2013 #16
punitive to the tune of half a million per bottle.... Theyletmeeatcake2 Apr 2013 #18
For $13,333 per bottle mythology Apr 2013 #17
Tangent: a very interesting article on wine fraud Recursion Apr 2013 #19
K&R. Wish your headline was used by Reuters too. Overseas Apr 2013 #20
Hope he doesn't drown in his 12 bottles of wine? Rosa Luxemburg Apr 2013 #21
Appeal the decision! santamargarita Apr 2013 #23
The wine fraud crisis has reached critical mass in the rarified world of the ruling class. valerief Apr 2013 #24
Let them drink Boones Farm lunasun Apr 2013 #27
Let them drink their own piss! nt valerief Apr 2013 #29
David and Charles Kock are the main "Koch Brothers", not William happyslug Apr 2013 #28
I've always used Bill as a comparison to Ross Perot... rwsanders Apr 2013 #38
This lawsuit was NOT frivolous and Koch was 100% correct badtoworse Apr 2013 #30
I think it's the massive damages asked for that makes it seem insipid brett_jv Apr 2013 #36
Rich People Problems Caeser67 Apr 2013 #31
All in the Family Gestas Apr 2013 #32
She's married to Robert Koch blogslut Apr 2013 #33
are you sure it's a completely different family? i've read it's the same family, though i've not HiPointDem Apr 2013 #35
Welcome to DU Gestas! hrmjustin Apr 2013 #34
You know what would have prevented this fraud? Better regulation. (nt) Nine Apr 2013 #37
I hate this duo. lexw Apr 2013 #39
Great wealth can apparently overcome the punitive-damages guidelines of the Supreme Court AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #42
The $12mil was punitive damages - Koch didn't, legally couldn't, ask for that much. sir pball Apr 2013 #46

PA Democrat

(13,225 posts)
2. Yes, the very people who scream for tort reform
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 06:57 PM
Apr 2013

when they are the defendants have no problem using the courts to protect their own interests.

David and Charles Koch sued the Cato Institute a right wing think tank they founded.

Bill Koch the eldest brother Frederick sold their stakes in the family oil conglomerate back to Charles and David for over $700 million in 1983. Feeling shortchanged, the two spent the next 18 years suing for more.

The Kochs are the face of pure greed.

0rganism

(23,855 posts)
4. "says he may use the proceeds to establish a fund to confront auction fraud"
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 07:01 PM
Apr 2013

Or, maybe he'll just use the proceeds to buy a few more politicians, buy out a radio station or 3, and run "global warming is a myth" ads in primetime. The last thing that vicious asshat needed was more money.

$12 million in damages for WINE FRAUD? give me a goddam break.

GiveMeFreedom

(976 posts)
6. Koch drank my pickup truck.
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 08:23 PM
Apr 2013

$320,000 / 24 bottles = $13,333.33 for one bottle of wine, consumed in about an hour or two. Must be fucking nice to piss in the morning knowing your pissing $13,333.33 worth. My used pick up cost me $13,500. Class warfare is hurting everyone but these assholes. How do we get them? Pitchforks and knives? Peace.

moondust

(19,917 posts)
8. Purportedly from Hitler's personal collection or something?
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 09:31 PM
Apr 2013

Charles Manson? Some other psychopathic inspiration?

louis-t

(23,199 posts)
22. off subject, that line reminded me of...
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 06:55 PM
Apr 2013

a quote from a friend's father who was a friend of Jackie Coogan. "Shake the hand that held the cock that f*cked Betty Grable." I still almost pee myself when I think of it.

formercia

(18,479 posts)
26. True story
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 09:50 PM
Apr 2013

Jackie Coogan was a Glider Pilot in Burma during WWII. A fellow I worked for was one of Merrills Marauders. He met Coogan as he stepped out of his aircraft and Coogan shook his hand and said that exact thing. I bet he said it a thousand times.
That's what gave me the idea for the line.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
41. A thousand times? Then maybe he said it more than he did it.
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 04:28 AM
Apr 2013

Wikipedia shows that they were married on November 20, 1937 and divorced on October 11, 1939.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
44. IMO, he was speaking somewhat with nostalgia after Oct 1939 because they were no longer married.
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:30 AM
Apr 2013

I could be mistaken, but I believe that when people got divorced prior to WW II, it did change a thing or two.

formercia

(18,479 posts)
45. True, perhaps, but Hollywood is a different dimension.
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 11:01 AM
Apr 2013

Perhaps that's why he joined the Army and became a Glider Pilot.

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1508

FLIGHT OFFICER JACKIE COOGAN

Posted 9/18/2009

Jackie Coogan enlisted in the Army on March 4, 1941. When the U.S. entered World War II as a result of the Pearl Harbor attack, Coogan requested transfer to the AAF as a glider pilot because of his civilian flying experience. He was sent to glider school at Lubbock, Texas, and Twentynine Palms, Calif. Upon graduation, he was made a Flight Officer. He then volunteered for hazardous duty with the 1st Air Commando Group being formed by the famous Col. Phil Cochran. In December 1943, the unit was sent to India where, using Waco CG-4A gliders, it airlifted crack British troops under Gen. Orde Wingate during the night aerial invasion of Burma (March 5, 1944), landing them in a small jungle clearing 100 miles behind Japanese lines. Coogan returned to the United States in May 1944 and was discharged in December. 1945.


 

47of74

(18,470 posts)
10. Meanwhile
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 12:31 PM
Apr 2013

There are people who can't get quality representation in courts because they don't make a 1000th the money of this smarmy little bleep stick.

cstanleytech

(26,080 posts)
16. Wow, punitive damages that high over wine are imo excessive.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 10:17 PM
Apr 2013

I could agree with some form of damages though but just not that much.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
17. For $13,333 per bottle
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 10:25 PM
Apr 2013

the wine had better do something well past spectacular. I mean more than just every sexual fantasy, it had better make me smarter, better looking and give me a better personality.

I get that there's a difference in a bottle of wine that costs $5 and one that costs $25, but I can't imagine ever paying more or less $3,333 per glass of anything.

Overseas

(12,121 posts)
20. K&R. Wish your headline was used by Reuters too.
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 11:15 AM
Apr 2013

I think that is a very important point. The conservative groups he funds try to restrict our rights to sue, and cut down on punitive damages for serious bodily harm, while he will create a special fund to sue those who dare dupe the rich via auction fraud.

Quite revolting.

The more I learn about the Koch brothers, the more repulsive they are.

The movie HOT COFFEE filled me in much more about the multi-dimensional campaigns of the past couple of decades to undo individual citizens' rights to sue for damages. Not just the PR component of making some serious lawsuits appear frivolous but also undermining our legal system at the state level across America.

http://www.hotcoffeethemovie.com/Default.asp

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
28. David and Charles Kock are the main "Koch Brothers", not William
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 10:15 AM
Apr 2013

Not that William is a saint (He is the twin brother of David Koch), but he is NOT David or Charles Koch, who are traditionally the "Koch Brothers" as that term is used on DU:

Charles born 1935:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Koch

David born 1940:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_H._Koch

David's twin, William (Who gave $2 million to support Romney in 2012) :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Koch_(businessman)

Frederick, born 1933:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_R._Koch

rwsanders

(2,585 posts)
38. I've always used Bill as a comparison to Ross Perot...
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 10:19 PM
Apr 2013

Perot was running for president the same time Koch was campaigning for the America's Cup. Now remember, that's just a trophy and in a few years you have to give it back. Now if I remember correctly:
Koch put more of his OWN money into winning the America's Cup than Perot did to run for president.
Koch changed the standard strategy and got the best people for each job even if they didn't have sailing experience, which meant football players to grind winches, etc. Perot if I remember correctly had someone who barely knew his own name as VP candidate.
Koch was fully commited and won the trophy. Perot dropped out (although in hindsight I don't doubt people were messing with his family, but it made him look loopy to say so).
Kind of scary, but if Bill Koch had decided to run for Pres. instead of a sailing trophy (although I did enjoy watching it), he might have been president.

 

badtoworse

(5,957 posts)
30. This lawsuit was NOT frivolous and Koch was 100% correct
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:23 PM
Apr 2013

It was about fraud and the fact that it concerned wine is irrelevant.

It's no different than a retailer selling gold plated jewely as solid gold or selling a designer knockoff as the genuine article. If you got ripped off that way, would you just accept it?

brett_jv

(1,245 posts)
36. I think it's the massive damages asked for that makes it seem insipid
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 10:04 PM
Apr 2013

Coming from someone associated with the 'Tort Reform' cause ...

Despite the way the article is written, which makes it sound like he only asked for the $350K back, I highly doubt that's accurate. What jury in the world would just up and decide a rich prick like that is deserving of like a HUGE recompense for 'punitive damages' ... over some wine fraud? Unless he got himself a jury consisting entirely of the top 1 percent ... I don't see it happening.

His lawyer asked for the damages, at the very least.

Gestas

(1 post)
32. All in the Family
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 01:10 PM
Apr 2013

Keep in mind that William Koch is married to G.W. Bush's Sister Dorothy...It's a well keep secret..

blogslut

(37,955 posts)
33. She's married to Robert Koch
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 01:23 PM
Apr 2013

Different family. Although, oddly, Bobby Koch is president of the Wine Institute.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
35. are you sure it's a completely different family? i've read it's the same family, though i've not
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 03:19 PM
Apr 2013

been able to pin down any proof of that.

lexw

(804 posts)
39. I hate this duo.
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 02:46 AM
Apr 2013

Going to court over 24 bottles of wine. Christ.
They are exactly what we need to rid this country of: rich, callous, sociopaths.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
42. Great wealth can apparently overcome the punitive-damages guidelines of the Supreme Court
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 04:43 AM
Apr 2013

which are applicable to ordinary folk.

Koch was only seeking $320,000 in compensatory damages but the jury awarded $12 million in punitive damages. The ratio greatly exceeds the 4:1 ratio which the Supreme Court has indicated as being potentially violative of the Due Process clause. Exceptions, however, are for the rich.

In response to judges and juries which award high punitive damages verdicts, the Supreme Court of the United States has made several decisions which limit awards of punitive damages through the due process of law clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution. In a number of cases, the Court has indicated that a 4:1 ratio between punitive and compensatory damages is high enough to lead to a finding of constitutional impropriety, and that any ratio of 10:1 or higher is almost certainly unconstitutional. However, the Supreme Court carved out a notable exception to this rule of proportionality in the case of TXO Production Corp. v. Alliance Resources Corp., where it affirmed an award of $10 million in punitive damages, despite the compensatory damages being only $19,000, a punitive-to-compensatory ratio of more than 526 to 1. In this case, the Supreme Court affirmed that disproportionate punitive damages were allowed for especially egregious conduct (the trial court in the same case purportedly said "What could be more egregious than the vice president of a company saying, well, testifying and saying that he knew all along that this property belonged to Tug Fork?&quot [20]

In the case of Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants (1994), 79 year old Stella Liebeck spilled McDonald's coffee in her lap which resulted in second and third degree burns on her thighs, buttocks, groin and genitals. The burns were severe enough to require skin grafts. Liebeck attempted to have McDonald's pay her $20,000 medical bills as indemnity for the incident. McDonald's refused, and Liebeck sued. During the case's discovery process, internal documents from McDonald's revealed the company had received hundreds of similar complaints from customers claiming McDonald's coffee caused severe burns. At trial, this led the jury to find McDonald's knew their product was dangerous and injuring their customers, and that the company had done nothing to correct the problem. The jury decided on $200,000 in compensatory damages, but attributed 20 percent of the fault to Liebeck, reducing her compensation to $160,000. The jury also awarded Liebeck $2.7 million in punitive damages, which was at the time two days of McDonald's coffee sales revenue. The judge later reduced the punitive damages to $480,000. The case is often criticized for the very high amount of damages the jury awarded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punitive_damages

sir pball

(4,726 posts)
46. The $12mil was punitive damages - Koch didn't, legally couldn't, ask for that much.
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 11:13 AM
Apr 2013

Plaintiffs can't ask for punitive damages: "Punitive damages, also known as exemplary damages, may be awarded by the trier of fact (a jury or a judge, if a jury trial was waived) in addition to actual damages, which compensate a plaintiff for the losses suffered due to the harm caused by the defendant...Unless otherwise required by statute, the award of punitive damages is left to the discretion of the trier of fact."

Koch was suing for the $320K he paid for the wine - the jury awarded the $500K/bottle punitive damages on their own. Like the McD's coffee case, she asked for her medical expenses and the jury went overboard with the punitive damages. I'm not offering an opinion on "tort reform" either way and certainly not defending Billy boy, just pointing out that it wasn't his doing.

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