Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 02:32 PM Apr 2013

"MY 12 year old is pregnant. FOR REAL."...

This is a subthread that needs some DU love. The subthread was started late last night and is continuing into today. You may not know about it because the OP is from February so posting to the thread no longer kicks it to the top of GD.

The poster is new to DU and I believe sincerely could use some advice. I gave it a shot but I don't have the answers for her.

Her name is MichelleB and she is new to DU. Welcome MichelleB! I truly hope that reposting your first post in GD gets you some answers. (She can't post her own OP yet... I'll post a link to this new thread in the other subthread.)

Link to original thread where I found her post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2658955

MichelleB (3 posts)
37. MY 12 year old is pregnant. FOR REAL.

This is gunna sound truly crazy but my daughter who is twelve is pregnant. I am so not happy about it. And I'm trying to find out what my rights are. I live in the state of Vermont, and seem to have no rights. I have begge and pleaded for her to abort. I've showed her all the medical risks and labor videos. And still all I get is, nothing. She seems to think shed be a murderer. But to carry on is murder to her self. She won't listen to reason or anything else. Now, because she's so young, I'm responsibile to make sure she's going to appointments and all else. But I have no say weather she keeps it or not?? She's only in the 7th grade. Not even in high school. Never even changed a diaper. And no, I'm not a parent that lets there children go gallavanting at all hours and acting like little hood rats. Simply put, she lied to me about where she was going and who she was going with. Long story short we find ourself in this situation. A f'ed up crappy one at that. She's only 7 weeks and her hands and feet are already so swollen it hurts for her o walk. If anyone has any legal information to help me with, PLEASE do so. Or any moms in this situation PLEASE HELP. I'm dying on the inside!!


Rhiannon12866 (53,826 posts)
38. I am so sorry for your dilemma, MichelleB!

Since this discussion was from February, you might get a better response if you posted in one of these groups. Welcome to DU and hope that you get both support and some answers here.


Parenting (Group)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1160

Pro-Choice (Group)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1152

Vermont (Group)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1080


MichelleB (3 posts)
39. Thanks!!

thanks!! Unfortunately I haven't responded to enough links to start my own? Kinda odd. Anyway, in this situation, due to the whole patient privacy acts, I never had to be informed that she was pregnant. Yet because she went to planned parenthood, because I had scheduled the appointment, they contacted DCF and I know have them watching to make sure I make her go to all the appointments. Yet I don't have to be informed of them?? And when at the appointment, she had no idea WHAT a spectulm was or what it did. She was all for aborting until the boyfriend had something to say about it. He'd leave her. She was a murderer and everything else he could fill her head with. Doctors told her about her risks but she doesn't acknowledge. Yet, she didn't even know what the term bowel movement was!! Not that u would really expect a twelve year old too!! Yet.. Once again.. I get no say. I don't understand how that works. But god forbid she's not making the appointments!! I'm held responsible!! Not to mention, I'm not in a good spot financially yet who will end up paying for it?? She can't. She is t even old enough to get welfare. So what to do??


Rhiannon12866 (53,826 posts)
40. Perhaps you need to talk to an attorney?

Since she is a young child and you are responsible for her, wouldn't you be her medical proxy? If would also help if you had a sympathetic doctor or someone at Planned Parenthood who's experienced in counseling who could speak to her.

The dangers are obvious, but what about the rest of her life? Teenagers have trouble looking ahead and seeing the big picture, only live in the now, so I can't imagine how it is with a 12-year-old child. She's certainly not old enough to live on her own, get a job, and legally she needs to be in school.

Do you know the boyfriend's parents? A touchy subject, especially if he's just as young, but they have to be having the same feelings that you are, if they know. I'd find a responsible counselor, someone she sees as impartial who might be able to explain the facts to her who she might listen to.

You really do have a dilemma and there has to be some help out there. And someone on DU might be able to steer you in the right direction... You can start your own thread after 10 replies.


MichelleB (3 posts)
41. So frustrating.

Yes. As a minor, I am her proxy but when it comes to this, the abortion law is her body her choice. And if she was even 15, though I wouldn't want that either, I wouldn't try to push abortion on her. But she's not even old enough to know what the term bowel movement is yet!! She's not responsible or mature enough to make that choice. She doesn't know what it's like to be pregnant. She hasn't even had a babysitting job yet!! Never mind that she's only had her period a year and just started blooming. She doesn't even where a coat with out an argument!! What does that say?? I've talked to family court and I'm told there really isn't much I can do. The boyfriends parents want her to keep it!! That'd crazy!! He's 15. She's not. An yet nothing I can do. I think in this situation it should be my choice and not hers. As she just doesn't kno what's best for herself yet!!


Rhiannon12866 (53,826 posts)
42. Well, I happen to agree with you. She's way too young to make such decisions.

And this is her life you're talking about. She has no idea at such a young age. Perhaps you could talk to someone at Planned Parenthood or to a counselor to advise her. Certainly no one her own age can possibly have a clue. She's just a child, so can't be expected to understand, and it makes no sense that the boyfriend's parents can't realize that. We're not even talking about a teenager here. Since you are her medical proxy, and her parent and guardian, that should count for a lot. I'd still consult a lawyer and/or an experienced counselor, since it's not just a difference of opinion, but a child who needs help to make a decision that's in her own interest, which she's just not capable of at such a young age. I am so sorry that you're faced with this...


TeeYiYi (4,506 posts)
43. Michelle, I just want to say...

...that I am so sorry for your situation. A very enlightening and thought provoking post. Btw, welcome to DU.

You've got me thinking about something that I never imagined might be an issue. As I sit here, not in your position, I tell myself that if I were in your situation I would have taken my daughter to the doctor or PP and had them give her the morning after pill. That shows you how ignorant I am on such things.

My next step would be the abortion but I'm sitting her stunned to find out that you have no say in this matter. That you can't, as the mother of a 12 year old daughter, authorize her to receive an abortion.

Maybe you could take her to some kind of counseling to try to help her choose the abortion on her own.

I not some crazy pro abortion advocate that pushes abortion on everyone. I just think that if there was ever a case for early pregnancy termination, this would be it.

Having a baby is not a decision that should be taken lightly, and should in the real world, be given plenty of forethought and planning. Decisions that your daughter is not mature enough to make or emotionally capable of making at her age. She is still a child!

My opinion, possibly not a popular opinion, is that accidental pregnancy in a 12 year old girl, for whatever reason, should be treated as an illness/accident and treated accordingly. Your child gets pneumonia, you give them penicillin. Broken arm, you have the break set with a cast. Pregnancy...you terminate the pregnancy.

Ok, I've gone on long enough. I'm just so surprised that you don't have more legal say in your situation.

I wish you the best.

TYY


In_The_Wind (40,523 posts)
44. Welcome to DU, MichelleB.

How is your primary care physician handling your daughter's current medical problems brought on by this pregnancy? She needs counseling with a social worker.



TYY
330 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
"MY 12 year old is pregnant. FOR REAL."... (Original Post) TeeYiYi Apr 2013 OP
Can't force anyone, even a minor, to have an abortion lolly Apr 2013 #1
That is such a surprise to me... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #4
People are in control of their own bodies. Age is not an impediment to self-determination in that MADem Apr 2013 #106
He's 15. ..nt TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #109
If he even exists. MADem Apr 2013 #115
Her story is real... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #122
It's not hard to fire up a FB page--it's pretty easy, in fact. MADem Apr 2013 #125
Wow... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #131
.... MEEE too!! MichelleB Apr 2013 #140
My dog has a facebook page several yrs old. Just because someone has a facebook page does not mean uppityperson Apr 2013 #153
Well... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #157
It could be her but I am not convinced it isn't trolling, looking for anti-choice stuff to uppityperson Apr 2013 #159
Just a cursory look at her facebook page... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #162
I did not ask for it. She said "Check out my Facebook!!" I replied "What facebook?" Quit saying I uppityperson Apr 2013 #169
Umad bro?... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #173
what "involvement"? Asking for clarification of a post? Oh dearie me. How DARE I do something uppityperson Apr 2013 #174
You asked. She posted. TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #183
You aren't sure why I'm being "so defensive". Gotcha. uppityperson Apr 2013 #184
It happens a lot, which is why people are skeptical octothorpe Apr 2013 #205
People have been faking facebook pages since 2009.... MADem Apr 2013 #289
I suspect something is going on. TexasTowelie Apr 2013 #303
The anti-gay snark she posted in this thread is something else. MADem Apr 2013 #305
This is quite true. However, at 12 years old, an early abortion is safer PDJane Apr 2013 #53
No, she can't. But they can limit contact with the boyfriend pnwmom Apr 2013 #61
Limit contact by sending him to jail for raping a 12 year old. nt MADem Apr 2013 #107
I wonder how old he is? n/t pnwmom Apr 2013 #128
According to the OP, 15. white_wolf Apr 2013 #130
Assuming the guy in question is only 15 and it was truly consensual then it wouldn't be rape. white_wolf Apr 2013 #129
The laws are different in each state. Ms. Toad Apr 2013 #138
Apparently, if the victim is 12, it IS rape. Keep reading the thread. A crime was committed. MADem Apr 2013 #292
He's 15. He wouldn't get sent to Jail. cali Apr 2013 #176
Depends on the state laws jeff47 Apr 2013 #180
I live in Vermont. I don't know if he could be charged. I do know that if charged cali Apr 2013 #182
According to what I looked up, he can be charged with sexual assault kdmorris Apr 2013 #215
Charge him with assault and battery. nt MADem Apr 2013 #288
very, very unlikely to happen in this situation where he too is under the age cali Apr 2013 #297
Hee hee!!! MADem Apr 2013 #299
its a trap! ret5hd Apr 2013 #2
Yup. REP Apr 2013 #3
What kind of trap? TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #5
The kind where we liberals root for a 12-year-old to be forced to have an abortion against her will REP Apr 2013 #10
Oh. TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #14
I don't have kids, either; but I do have a black belt in pro-choice :-) REP Apr 2013 #47
I know you're right and I agree with you... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #57
Social worker MichelleB Apr 2013 #73
You're in a tough situation... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #75
If she's no longer allowed to see the boyfriend Mariana Apr 2013 #79
Why has the 3 yr older boy not been reported for statutory rape? uppityperson Apr 2013 #88
In the state of Vermont MichelleB Apr 2013 #95
That does not appear to be true kdmorris Apr 2013 #154
Things cops never told me.... MichelleB Apr 2013 #164
and the doctor you took her to didn't report it to the cops? arely staircase Apr 2013 #233
No. MichelleB Apr 2013 #252
Doctors in Vermont are mandated reporters. Here is the info. They have to. Within 24 hrs. Period. uppityperson Apr 2013 #261
I'm smelling a very large rat, here--it was a wee mouse before. Now it's a honking water rat! MADem Apr 2013 #290
If you are responsible for your Daughter, Turbineguy Apr 2013 #145
you're contradicting yourself. You're claiming that your daughter has only cali Apr 2013 #147
On the news, in social media, perhaps in a hijacked "Health" class or 2. TheMadMonk Apr 2013 #257
not in Vermont will you find a highjacked health class. No way. not in public school. cali Apr 2013 #264
May well be a bullshit story. But that is not the nit I'm picking. TheMadMonk Apr 2013 #274
"How does a twelve year old who has only heard of abortion referred to as murder, make it??" Arugula Latte Apr 2013 #282
A doctor should be involved in every pregnancy, period REP Apr 2013 #190
I'm so with you on this one.... FarPoint Apr 2013 #229
:) Horse with no Name Apr 2013 #327
Exactly. My bullshit detector is pinned. Warpy Apr 2013 #33
Yes, I was thinking that too lolly Apr 2013 #40
I noticed that too gollygee Apr 2013 #68
Then what was wrong with me? Fawke Em Apr 2013 #72
Should be NO SWELLING MichelleB Apr 2013 #135
Happened to my sister... onpatrol98 Apr 2013 #255
Knew it was a fake post at "gallevanting" alphafemale Apr 2013 #143
my fraud detector is going off riverbendviewgal Apr 2013 #150
I have a feeling you might be correct. TexasTowelie Apr 2013 #302
Sounds like something an O'Keefe flavored RWinger would pose. DirkGently Apr 2013 #199
You nailed it. It STINKS of O'Keefe type shit. cali Apr 2013 #268
Makes me wonder why it is still here Hekate Apr 2013 #322
It's funny how they feel they have to add something to make it more awful treestar Apr 2013 #269
Yes. Something's off here. Squinch Apr 2013 #43
That's what I thought Hekate Apr 2013 #96
I was wondering that myself. Why DU of all places? white_wolf Apr 2013 #132
And coming to an ARCHIVED thread to breach the topic, to boot....! MADem Apr 2013 #291
This situation only makes me want to really watch who my granddaughter and wonder who she southernyankeebelle Apr 2013 #6
Is this where we all say "Cool story, bro!" Quantess Apr 2013 #7
Possibly. TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #8
Yeah, I hate to say this since the story could be true, but I think we are being trolled. white_wolf Apr 2013 #134
She's no troll. Her story is true... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #136
Fair enough. I'll admit I'm biased in this because... white_wolf Apr 2013 #137
Thank you white Wolfe MichelleB Apr 2013 #141
This sucks. But women own their own bodies. bravenak Apr 2013 #9
A 12-year old girl is not a woman. Sheldon Cooper Apr 2013 #52
Tell that to her ovaries. bravenak Apr 2013 #56
She still owns her body Warpy Apr 2013 #65
Frankly, this sounds like -- Hell Hath No Fury Apr 2013 #11
Wtf??? Control-Z Apr 2013 #13
Don't think it was meant that way lolly Apr 2013 #44
Exactly my point. Hell Hath No Fury Apr 2013 #46
I guess it did. Control-Z Apr 2013 #51
I caught one once Hekate Apr 2013 #98
Post removed Post removed Apr 2013 #12
Those 3 posts were in the middle of the night. TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #15
I'm not holding my breath dlwickham Apr 2013 #41
You won't need to... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #77
So let the 12 year old have the baby. It's really not that big of a deal. cbdo2007 Apr 2013 #16
Wow. Just. Wow. IdaBriggs Apr 2013 #18
Shocking, isn't it? Control-Z Apr 2013 #20
I am wondering if it was made under the assumption it is a "troll" post. IdaBriggs Apr 2013 #22
This entire thread is Control-Z Apr 2013 #36
Not sure what the shock is all about.... cbdo2007 Apr 2013 #25
The mother stated that the girl lied to her about where / who IdaBriggs Apr 2013 #27
OMG!! Thank you!! MichelleB Apr 2013 #84
You do have a say. And you should get a lawyer. And you should be there in the exam room. Hekate Apr 2013 #100
She has no say here. We have a son who was 16 and we were not allowed to see his test results even NotThisTime Apr 2013 #142
You're inferring a lot there Floyd_Gondolli Apr 2013 #28
Wow. Those are some very interesting assumptions. n/t gollygee Apr 2013 #69
Not sure if serious slackmaster Apr 2013 #54
Mother cannot do anything leftynyc Apr 2013 #17
This is not for real dem in texas Apr 2013 #19
Good lord, you read my mind. Great summary of what I find off about this. uppityperson Apr 2013 #26
yep. popped in to say the same thing. RudynJack Apr 2013 #70
This is a shitty place to get medical/preganancy/legal advice, anyway.... MADem Apr 2013 #112
Really?? MichelleB Apr 2013 #126
I know a lot about Vermont. I've lived here for 35 years. In the Kingdom. cali Apr 2013 #148
Tell that to DCF MichelleB Apr 2013 #167
Are you calling cali a liar? I agree, "You CAN'T tell where a person is from by the way they text.. uppityperson Apr 2013 #171
I don't have any doubt that this poster is NOT from Vermont. cali Apr 2013 #179
I agree with you.. Tender to the Bone Apr 2013 #213
Post removed Post removed Apr 2013 #251
Hello? Did you read my post? I've lived here for fucking decades. In the Kingdom. Odd as hell cali Apr 2013 #177
Yeaaa and im in Winooski!! MichelleB Apr 2013 #249
Sneakers. IF You're from Winooski. You should know exactly what I'm referring to cali Apr 2013 #267
So pro-choice means anti-parent??? ret5hd Apr 2013 #239
WTF are you on about with that "PRO GAY" remark? You're definitely in the wrong place. MADem Apr 2013 #304
My scam radar is also going off. FarPoint Apr 2013 #227
Umm... "She was all for aborting until the boyfriend had something to say about it. He'd leave her." Avalux Apr 2013 #21
Funny how the mom is automatically to blame, isn't it? IdaBriggs Apr 2013 #24
because this is clearly trolling bullshit. for pete's sake, Ida. cali Apr 2013 #67
Jury results kiva Apr 2013 #156
thanks.. Voice for Peace Apr 2013 #228
Hmmm... one_voice Apr 2013 #23
+1000 bunnies Apr 2013 #32
right on every point arely staircase Apr 2013 #226
I stopped reading at "hood rats." Brickbat Apr 2013 #29
++++ marions ghost Apr 2013 #34
Yep. Dead give-away. (n/t) WorseBeforeBetter Apr 2013 #82
So many "'hoods" in Vermont, doncha know..... MADem Apr 2013 #118
it reads like some brietbart wannabe (or actual brietbart staffers) mimicking arely staircase Apr 2013 #234
Sounds a little too much like the plot to "Up to the Lake" but I'll offer advice. Peregrine Took Apr 2013 #30
I don't buy it for one nanosecond. It's a ghastly anti-choicer trollkin. cali Apr 2013 #31
as i said upthread arely staircase Apr 2013 #235
i dont buy it for one second. La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2013 #35
+1 - My thoughts exactly LeftInTX Apr 2013 #58
++1 ropi Apr 2013 #62
I'm calling anti-choice troll BS. Oh, and how old is the BF? He's probably older and kestrel91316 Apr 2013 #37
She says he's 15... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #48
My thoughts too Mz Pip Apr 2013 #49
If you feel the need to post ohheckyeah Apr 2013 #38
Her post was a response... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #66
Her body, her choice. 10 years old or 70, no matter what. LittleBlue Apr 2013 #39
This. Is. A. Troll. Lock the thread. mn9driver Apr 2013 #42
Thanks for this input. Brickbat Apr 2013 #45
Time to stick a scissors obliviously Apr 2013 #64
yes...agreed ropi Apr 2013 #71
eek Voice for Peace Apr 2013 #76
I call bullshit MotherPetrie Apr 2013 #50
I agree with the "it's a trap" assessments. PeaceNikki Apr 2013 #55
This smells trollie. If not, Shrike47 Apr 2013 #59
Which might well be the goal of the father's family. TheMadMonk Apr 2013 #263
Strip her room. Take away all the fun in her life. Xithras Apr 2013 #60
i think this story is fake, but assuming it's true, if she wants to have the baby that's what you JI7 Apr 2013 #63
I think it's fake, too, but if it's true, she should sue the parents of the boy for monetary MADem Apr 2013 #121
You're being unfair... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #123
No I'm not. MADem Apr 2013 #124
Did you even look at the OP she responded to?... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #127
Gee, maybe an IP comparison wouldn't be amiss. MADem Apr 2013 #294
Google: Compliacation of pregnant 12 year olds... MichelleB Apr 2013 #133
actually, there are "hoods" in Vermont cali Apr 2013 #149
Not much though....and it's what, a forty mile bike ride to "dangerous" Montpelier from Winooski? MADem Apr 2013 #293
lol. no kidding cali Apr 2013 #296
Burlington, Essex, Winooski, South Burlington all have "hoods" in them and I've met plenty of them NotThisTime Apr 2013 #298
Anyone can shoot anyone, or rob a store, anywhere--you don't need a "hood" to make that happen. nt MADem Apr 2013 #300
The hoods are supplying the hoods in Burlington NotThisTime Apr 2013 #311
Well, it is a little white for my crowd, but I've been up to the Northeast Kingdom a time or twenty. MADem Apr 2013 #313
wait a minute: You actually think that only gang members hold up stores or shoot people? cali Apr 2013 #318
Please share them!! MichelleB Apr 2013 #139
Try googling your state attorney general and legal aid for starters. MADem Apr 2013 #301
Excellent post, MADem Hekate Apr 2013 #325
Thank you. I hope the mechanisms that keep DU reasonably pulled together are aware of this MADem Apr 2013 #326
Her body, her choice. eom tarheelsunc Apr 2013 #74
Adoption can be beautiful SouthCarolina Apr 2013 #78
Welcome to DU, SouthCarolina... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #86
Welcome to DU SouthCarolina! hrmjustin Apr 2013 #104
Why are we discussing this? lumberjack_jeff Apr 2013 #80
Did you miss post #73... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #83
No it shouldn't and yes I am!! MichelleB Apr 2013 #85
What facebook? uppityperson Apr 2013 #89
This message was self-deleted by its author MichelleB Apr 2013 #90
This message was self-deleted by its author TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #92
Please do not post all this personal info, self delete please. uppityperson Apr 2013 #93
Don't let rude posters get to you, MichelleB... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #91
Hey Michelle...some DUers are overly suspicious. dkf Apr 2013 #114
Sounds like something that lives under a bridge. Apophis Apr 2013 #81
If he is 15 and she is 12, it is statutory rape and should be reported to police. uppityperson Apr 2013 #87
Not in the state of Vermont MichelleB Apr 2013 #94
Too young for accountability? You must account for your daughter. Put the baby up for adoption. SugarShack Apr 2013 #97
Adoption MichelleB Apr 2013 #105
You mentioned the boyfriend's parents want her to keep the baby... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #108
Hahahaha!! MichelleB Apr 2013 #119
so she and the boyfreind are "together"? you permit this, or can't stop it? arely staircase Apr 2013 #232
Allow me to explain... MichelleB Apr 2013 #253
I'd start with Doc McStuffins snooper2 Apr 2013 #247
What an absurd post. Parental rights do hold sway, here. MADem Apr 2013 #315
Theoretically though, Mr. X Apr 2013 #99
Good Advice!! MichelleB Apr 2013 #101
About college... Mr. X Apr 2013 #111
Feeling horribile MichelleB Apr 2013 #113
Sad isn't it? Mr. X Apr 2013 #117
For her own good MichelleB Apr 2013 #120
Get yourself one of those compurterized baby dolls and have her start notadmblnd Apr 2013 #165
Talked about that with a social worker MichelleB Apr 2013 #168
A teacher or counciler at her middle school should be able to borrow one from the HS notadmblnd Apr 2013 #172
I'm glad you came back Control-Z Apr 2013 #102
Thanks!! MichelleB Apr 2013 #103
Good luck, Michelle LittleBlue Apr 2013 #110
Thank you!! MichelleB Apr 2013 #116
She's 12 wickerwoman Apr 2013 #185
Thank you, well said. nt uppityperson Apr 2013 #188
Please see my other post above - that doesn't appear to be true kdmorris Apr 2013 #155
Are you saying... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #158
"Anyone, regardless of age, commits sexual assault in Vermont when he has sexual intercourse with a" uppityperson Apr 2013 #160
Well that's not exactly true... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #161
Wouldn't that make both of them guilty of sexual assault? CokeMachine Apr 2013 #241
It appears to be saying that kdmorris Apr 2013 #163
Thanks kdmorris... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #170
If she's 12 and has never changed a diaper in her life, wickerwoman Apr 2013 #144
Even watching "16 & Pregnant" YarnAddict Apr 2013 #146
Start sending the bills to the boyfriends parents today cap Apr 2013 #151
Good post. Thank you. ..nt TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #152
A pregnant child of that age is evidence of rape, even if she had tblue37 Apr 2013 #166
persuaded the maybe real, maybe not boyfriend of what? cali Apr 2013 #175
From the OP, he is apparently the one who persuaded the girl not to have an tblue37 Apr 2013 #194
OK, let's be clear: It's up to the girl-whether she was persuaded or not cali Apr 2013 #208
Apparently it's not too late for that... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #181
At what age do you think someone should be able to chose? Pro-choice at what age? uppityperson Apr 2013 #186
so you're all for parents forcing a child to bear a child? cali Apr 2013 #187
I think she is for forced abortions, not forcing to bear a child. uppityperson Apr 2013 #189
If by "forced abortions"... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #193
At what age do you think someone should be allowed to chose? When should pro-choice kick in. uppityperson Apr 2013 #197
From my post... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #191
that is wrong. As wrong as a parent who forces a child to bear a baby. cali Apr 2013 #192
I didn't say... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #196
"I would absolutely insist that my 12 year old child terminate this pregnancy" uppityperson Apr 2013 #198
I would also insist... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #200
Pro-forced abortion. Thank you for clarifying. The OP got what they were looking for. uppityperson Apr 2013 #202
From post #196... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #203
2 things. hahahahahahaha. Secondly, "As my daughter", you are your daughter. Got it. uppityperson Apr 2013 #204
do we have proof this was a setup? I'm convinced it was but I'd like some evidence cali Apr 2013 #207
No proof but I am convinced also. And my "friend" uppityperson Apr 2013 #209
What are you? The grammar police?... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #210
You do not have a daughter? Oh. Kay. That makes your being for forced abortion clearer. Goodbye. uppityperson Apr 2013 #211
"Forced abortions." Whatever, uppityperson... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #212
You mean when you falsely accused me of it. Not mad but it all is coming together now. uppityperson Apr 2013 #214
Yep. You're mad. TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #216
You agree with forced abortions and take pride in making someone mad. Huh. uppityperson Apr 2013 #217
Ok, uppityperson, get ready for it... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #242
I find your continued endorsement of this OTIO rather curious. MADem Apr 2013 #307
Exactly Aerows Apr 2013 #309
The entire story is BS Aerows Apr 2013 #224
can the mods please check into this ZRT2209 Apr 2013 #178
Agreed. nt. Euphoria Apr 2013 #195
It's horseshit Aerows Apr 2013 #220
the DU jury screwed up ZRT2209 Apr 2013 #236
you are going on my ignore list - enough of this ZRT2209 Apr 2013 #201
I would tell the girl that the boyfriend will leave her Ilsa Apr 2013 #206
Oh, he'll leave her... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #324
There are ways Aerows Apr 2013 #218
I hope you're wrong, Aerows.... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #245
Here's the first reason you need to buy a clue. Aerows Apr 2013 #270
Why do you think... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #277
It has been pointed out repeatedly Aerows Apr 2013 #281
i smell bullshit. if it is true, shame on her (the mom) arely staircase Apr 2013 #219
I smell horseshit. Some shit anyway. lonestarnot Apr 2013 #231
People sign up on DU all the time... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #248
Anyone in the market for a used bridge? Ruby the Liberal Apr 2013 #221
No kidding! n/t Aerows Apr 2013 #223
does it come with a tenant under it? cali Apr 2013 #230
!!! Ruby the Liberal Apr 2013 #238
You too, Ruby?... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #246
I'd hate to have a mother broadcasting these details with thousands on an internet forum. I do hope uppityperson Apr 2013 #258
So far, I don't think that's happened. TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #259
Do you realize this thread is being discussed on conservative sites? nt uppityperson Apr 2013 #260
No,... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #262
Gee, wonder how rabid conservatives might have found such a thread? MADem Apr 2013 #295
Knock me over with a feather Aerows Apr 2013 #308
If it is real... a la izquierda Apr 2013 #265
A 12 year old Aerows Apr 2013 #272
Case in point a la izquierda Apr 2013 #273
It wasn't just the original story Ruby the Liberal Apr 2013 #266
If she has a pregnant 12 year old Aerows Apr 2013 #271
I'm not convinced that a 15 year old would be prosecuted in a case cali Apr 2013 #286
I don't buy it Aerows Apr 2013 #287
The link that you provided... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #317
No, but I have cheap waterbottom property 200 miles due west of San Francisco Zorra Apr 2013 #275
Could you relocate it to Manhattan? Ruby the Liberal Apr 2013 #276
Best I can do is a beautiful view property southeast of Manhattan Beach. Zorra Apr 2013 #283
good lord MFM008 Apr 2013 #222
Please! Aerows Apr 2013 #225
NOPE, I wonder why this poster thinks they can DiverDave Apr 2013 #237
Post removed Post removed Apr 2013 #240
tell michelle to get the fuck off DU and go call the police SmileyRose Apr 2013 #243
+ 1000..really, your 12 year old is pg and you're seeking advice from a bunch of internet strangers? likesmountains 52 Apr 2013 #254
Of the nearly 300 responses, I think this one makes the most sense - if the story bike man Apr 2013 #279
Adoption may be the only option for the child Generic Other Apr 2013 #244
Oh... LegalScholar Apr 2013 #250
Welcome to DU, LegalScholar... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #256
Congratulations youve made this BS th top search on google and bing Drew Richards Apr 2013 #278
+1000 cali Apr 2013 #284
It is so obvious Aerows Apr 2013 #285
the admins used to be much quicker on the trigger on the old DU... Blue_Tires Apr 2013 #320
I used to be a mod under DU2 Aerows Apr 2013 #321
MichelleB, this isn't the right place to seek advice fried eggs Apr 2013 #280
I'm beginning to think Aerows Apr 2013 #306
LOL good one for historical and current news reference Drew Richards Apr 2013 #310
OK I have one more thing to say about this TeeYiYi and take it to heart... Drew Richards Apr 2013 #312
Well, that puts the "googled it" theory to rest.... nt MADem Apr 2013 #314
thanks again. yet another clue that this is baiting bullshit. cali Apr 2013 #316
You and your anti-gay friend owe me a new bullshit meter, Jamastiene Apr 2013 #319
I'll admit... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #323
Update? New.Rules.NJ Oct 2013 #328
Welcome to DU... TeeYiYi Oct 2013 #329
Welcome to DU gopiscrap Oct 2013 #330

lolly

(3,248 posts)
1. Can't force anyone, even a minor, to have an abortion
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 02:41 PM
Apr 2013

I believe that's what Planned Parenthood would say, as well.

And as terrible as it sounds to think of a 12 yo having a baby, I agree with that.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
4. That is such a surprise to me...
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 02:49 PM
Apr 2013

I don't know why I'm so surprised, but I am.

I agree that it's probably best to protect the rights of a 12 year old. It just seems that a parent should have more say about a child's welfare until they reach a certain age...maybe 16 or something.

Hopefully she can get the girl counseling so that the child can make a more informed decision about her future.

TYY

MADem

(135,425 posts)
106. People are in control of their own bodies. Age is not an impediment to self-determination in that
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:10 AM
Apr 2013

regard.

That said, the male that impregnated her is a rapist, and if he's not very close in age to her, he could be sent up the river for a long, long, time.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
125. It's not hard to fire up a FB page--it's pretty easy, in fact.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:55 AM
Apr 2013

I have a nephew who does that sort of thing for sport--his dog has a FB page.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
131. Wow...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:10 AM
Apr 2013

...You must think I'm pretty fucking stupid.

You'll have to tell me how your brilliant nephew fires up phony fb pages and fakes timelines and photo albums going back to 2009. I'd be curious to hear all about that...

TYY

uppityperson

(115,674 posts)
153. My dog has a facebook page several yrs old. Just because someone has a facebook page does not mean
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 12:13 PM
Apr 2013

they are really the person they say they are.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
157. Well...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 12:26 PM
Apr 2013

....uppityperson, since you're the once who asked her for her facebook page and she was kind enough to supply you with that plus a couple of email addys,...what did you surmise?

Is that facebook page just an elaborate ruse that 'someone' was diabolical enough to set up 4 years ago to ultimately dupe a bunch of unsuspecting DUers?

TYY

uppityperson

(115,674 posts)
159. It could be her but I am not convinced it isn't trolling, looking for anti-choice stuff to
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 12:36 PM
Apr 2013

post elsewhere. Posting something like this on an unknown forum, supplying such personal information really makes me wonder how real this is as it seems off. IF this is real, I wonder how said daughter would feel about dear old mom sharing all this with a bunch of strangers, including who she is. Posting that means whoever read that or has access to way back machine (pulling up stuff posted on the internet and later deleted) can now track said daughter down and harass her. Yay for caring moms.

She is not getting "force your daughter" anti-choice stuff, or "12 yr olds should be able to do anything they want" stuff, so the trolling isn't supplying much of either which is good. But the whole thing is really off.

As far as facebook pages and email addresses, I asked "what facebook page?" after she said check it out as she seemed to indicate she'd already shared it.

MY point in this subthread is that it is easy to make email addresses and facebook pages. That is what I am saying. And it is easy to claim anything on the internets.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
162. Just a cursory look at her facebook page...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 12:54 PM
Apr 2013

...will tell you that she is what she says and that what she is saying about her daughter is the truth.

She never divulged that information until you asked for it.

TYY

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
173. Umad bro?...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:39 PM
Apr 2013

...lol... Just kidding! I'm not trying to make you mad.

She was responding to LumberjackJeff's rude post when she said, "Check out my facebook!" Then you replied to her post to him with, "What facebook?" So she replied to you with her facebook link and a couple of email addys.

Whether intentional or not, it was your question that got her to post personal links.

It doesn't really matter. It's over. I was just surprised that you jumped on the 'anyone can put up a fake, every dog has one, facebook page' bandwagon after your involvement in exposing her actual personal fb page.

TYY

uppityperson

(115,674 posts)
174. what "involvement"? Asking for clarification of a post? Oh dearie me. How DARE I do something
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:42 PM
Apr 2013

so awful as to ask what she meant? Oh me oh my, what "involvement" I had.

You are something. Continuing to accuse me of something I didn't do and say "it doesn't matter". Something indeed.

octothorpe

(962 posts)
205. It happens a lot, which is why people are skeptical
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:53 PM
Apr 2013

Here is a site that talks about a few of them. http://www.warriorelihoax.com/

The story that the site was originally about was crazy. I used to have a social networking site and that person was on there. I never thought anything of it, other than how weird it was that they had a billion kids. Anyway, they fooled a lot people.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
289. People have been faking facebook pages since 2009....
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 04:37 PM
Apr 2013

There's this show the kids watch, on the MTV channel. It's called "Catfish." Based on a movie.

Why are you thinking that you're the first?

TexasTowelie

(111,278 posts)
303. I suspect something is going on.
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 06:13 PM
Apr 2013

Check out this post from the other night:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12566852

I suspect that someone might be getting their chuckles reading the responses.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
305. The anti-gay snark she posted in this thread is something else.
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 06:50 PM
Apr 2013

How dare Howard Dean's daughter be....PRO GAY! http://betterment.democraticunderground.com/10022661346#post126

I almost choked on a potato chip when I read that! It's like "Where the hell do you think you are, Free Republic?"

The trick of hiding the bigoted piece of shit well down in the message so that it might be missed is one that clever trolls use.

Definitely a skilled fisherman--but not a master fisherman. A talented amateur, I'd say!

PDJane

(10,103 posts)
53. This is quite true. However, at 12 years old, an early abortion is safer
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 05:33 PM
Apr 2013

Than attempting to have a live birth. This is not a wise thing.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
61. No, she can't. But they can limit contact with the boyfriend
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 06:16 PM
Apr 2013

who got her pregnant and is so opposed to abortion.

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
130. According to the OP, 15.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:09 AM
Apr 2013

But I'll admit, I'm having trouble believing this story myself. It just seems very strange, but I suppose it's possible.

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
129. Assuming the guy in question is only 15 and it was truly consensual then it wouldn't be rape.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:08 AM
Apr 2013

As far as I know a minor can't be charged with statutory rape. Based on simply what I read in the OP it sounds like they both consented willingly so there was no crime committed. A act of extremely poor judgement isn't a crime. Once again everything I've said in this post is based on what the OP wrote being accurate. At least as far as I know. I'm no lawyer so maybe I'm wrong, but I'd assume a minor can't be charged with statutory rape.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
138. The laws are different in each state.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 04:13 AM
Apr 2013

Often they are based on the age of the minor and the difference in ages of the two.

As a minor, he might not be charged with statutory rape in adult court - but he might prosecuted in juvenile court and be found delinquent by reason of statutory rape).

MADem

(135,425 posts)
292. Apparently, if the victim is 12, it IS rape. Keep reading the thread. A crime was committed.
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 04:53 PM
Apr 2013

And then, of course, there's the crime of incredibility, perpetuated against posters of DU via this unbelievable tale of woe, full of 12 year old pregnant rape victims, underaged rapists, and Mandated Reporter MDs who decide that mandated reporting is optional. Yes, indeed....and did you know that I'm an astronaut? Really! I am!

That whiff in the air tells me one of two things--it's past time to slurry the fields.....or....!

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
180. Depends on the state laws
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:50 PM
Apr 2013

A lot of the exceptions for 'close in age' for statutory rape still require a minimum age. In the states I'm familiar with, it's 15 and 16 - meaning he could be charged if he lived in those states.

I don't know what Vermont's law says.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
182. I live in Vermont. I don't know if he could be charged. I do know that if charged
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:53 PM
Apr 2013

he'd be tried in juvenile court and he wouldn't go to jail.

kdmorris

(5,649 posts)
215. According to what I looked up, he can be charged with sexual assault
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 04:35 PM
Apr 2013

BUT - I don't live in Vermont, so I don't know if it's actually enforced. 15 is the age of consent and then, only if the older partner is 18 years old or less. If I'm reading the statute right, a 12 year old is unable to provide consent to sexual intercourse no matter what the age of the other partner.

But, yes, I would expect him to go through the juvenile courts, not be charged as an adult.

http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/08/sr/statelaws/summary.shtml

This site still has the age of consent at 16, but it appears it was changed in 2006. They tried to lower it to 13 in 2009, but it was shot down. Still, even if it had passed, a 12 year old isn't able to consent.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
297. very, very unlikely to happen in this situation where he too is under the age
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 05:20 PM
Apr 2013

of consent- well as under the age of consent as a figment of the imagination can be. Having been a Victim Advocate working out of the SA office as well as a GAL, I'm pretty sure that this is not the route that any SA in the state would take.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
299. Hee hee!!!
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 05:31 PM
Apr 2013

Surely, though, a teen who attacks a child ends up in juvie hall or the equivalent, even if the charge isn't 'rape?' And supposedly--and damned if I know--he now can (according to what is being shopped here) 'consent' with someone underaged...but then according to another poster, she's too young to consent at all. IOW, he can fool around with a seventeen year old, and consent to it, but she's too young to consent at all...? If that's the case, there must be consequences that accrue to the one capable of consent.

The figment aspect, though, as you wisely point out, is likely controlling in this circumstance!

That said, this thread needs music!

REP

(21,691 posts)
10. The kind where we liberals root for a 12-year-old to be forced to have an abortion against her will
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 03:17 PM
Apr 2013

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
14. Oh.
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 03:53 PM
Apr 2013

Thanks for the perspective. Oddly, your answer helped ME more than anything. I don't have kids so I've never been faced with this particular conundrum.

Your response made me realize that if I replaced 'forced abortion' with 'forced circumcision', 'forced sterilization' or 'forced gender reassignment at birth'...there would be no question as to which side I would come down on.

So, really, the answer is in education of the child so that she can make informed decisions about her own body.

Thanks REP. I really needed to hear that.

TYY

REP

(21,691 posts)
47. I don't have kids, either; but I do have a black belt in pro-choice :-)
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 05:21 PM
Apr 2013

I've been arguing reproductive rights for over 25 years - I've gotten good at recognizing the famous violinist on an island with a shark story

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
57. I know you're right and I agree with you...
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 05:59 PM
Apr 2013

...I just wonder where you draw the line regarding "your body, your choice" with a 12-year-old child who happens to be your own daughter. For example, if my child had a morbid fear of dentists, I wouldn't say, "your teeth, your choice." I'd see that she received dental care even if it required IV sedation.

I just wonder if a 12-year-old should really be allowed to make life altering decisions without the advice of a counselor or social worker.

TYY

MichelleB

(80 posts)
73. Social worker
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 11:22 PM
Apr 2013

My daughter has met with a social worker who informed her of the options available to her. And also agreed that abortion is best in this situation. But once again it's her choice. No one but her can make it. How does a twelve year old who has only heard of abortion referred to as murder, make it?? Even with the doctors pointing out all the high risks, her only response is I probably won't die. And she's no longer allowed to see the boyfriend. That's for sure. Everytime she gets close to agreeing with me the boyfriend figures out something to say to talk her out of it. If she was just a few years older this isn't what I'd try to push on her. But she's not.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
75. You're in a tough situation...
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 11:32 PM
Apr 2013

...and it looks like you're doing everything in your power to help your daughter.

It sounds like the social worker is on your side. Keep her in the loop and maybe your daughter will come around.

How is the boyfriend getting access to her? In school?...

Anyway, best of luck.

TYY

Mariana

(14,847 posts)
79. If she's no longer allowed to see the boyfriend
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 12:26 AM
Apr 2013

how is it that he's continuing to talk her out of it?

kdmorris

(5,649 posts)
154. That does not appear to be true
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 12:13 PM
Apr 2013

"In Vermont, a person commits aggravated sexual assault if he is at least age 18 and has sexual intercourse with a person under age 10. This crime is punishable by up to life imprisonment.

Anyone, regardless of age, commits sexual assault in Vermont when he has sexual intercourse with a person, other than his spouse, under age 16. The penalty for this crime is up to 20 years’ imprisonment. "

The ONLY time that the age matters is when the victim is older than 16. If she is 16 and engages in intercourse with a man 21 years of age or older, it is statutory rape. Otherwise, it is not.

It appears that you need to do a little more research. Unless your daughter has married him, he is guilty of sexual assault.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/jud/rpt/2003-r-0149.htm

http://www.timesargus.com/article/RH/20090221/NEWS04/902210337/0/NEWS02

MichelleB

(80 posts)
164. Things cops never told me....
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 01:57 PM
Apr 2013

Thank you for this information!! Ill have to check into this Monday. When I talked to the pd I was told I couldn't do anything due to both being minors.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
252. No.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 11:04 PM
Apr 2013

When I brought her to her appointment last week and she met with the ob and we all sat down with a social worker. They never called the cops not did DCF. I informed them of who dad was and how old he is. I also informed Winooski PD a well as Milton PD who said that as far as rape charges were concerned, nothing could be done. However, as far as mom -his- is concerned I can get her for harboring a run away minor. They asked her if she was persuaded into sex and she said no. She wanted to. It was supposedly her first time. They told me I could call CUSI (chittenden unit for special investigations) if I wanted but they weren't sure anything could be done... Should they stay together until he's 16, I can nail him then.. But a of now no charges can be pressed.

uppityperson

(115,674 posts)
261. Doctors in Vermont are mandated reporters. Here is the info. They have to. Within 24 hrs. Period.
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 12:23 AM
Apr 2013
http://www.littleleague.org/learn/programs/childprotection/ReportingChildAbuse/ReportingChildAbuseVermont.htm
http://dcf.vermont.gov/fsd/reporting_child_abuse/mandated_reporters
Mandated Reporters of Child Abuse/Neglect
If you work in one of the professions listed below, you are a mandated reporter. This means that once you suspect a child may have been abused or neglected, you are required by law to report your suspicions to Family Services—within 24 hours.
Chiropractor, dentist, emergency medical personnel, licensed practical nurse, medical examiner, mental health professional, osteopath, pharmacist, physician, physician’s assistant, psychologist, registered nurse, surgeon, or any other health care provider;
Hospital administrator, intern, or resident physician in any hospital in the state;
School guidance counselor, librarian, principal, superintendent, teacher, or any other individual regularly employed by a school district, or contracted and paid by a school district to provide student services for five or more hours a week during the school year;
Child care worker, police officer, probation officer, social worker, or member of the clergy;
Residential and non-residential camp administrator, counselor, or owner; and
Employee, contractor, or grantee of the Agency of Human Services who has contact with clients.
As a mandated reporter, you alone are legally responsible for making sure a report is made within 24 hours.


http://www.leg.state.vt.us/statutes/fullsection.cfm?Title=33&Chapter=049&Section=04912
4912. Definitions

As used in this subchapter:

(1) "Child" means an individual under the age of majority.

(2) An "abused or neglected child" means a child whose physical health, psychological growth and development or welfare is harmed or is at substantial risk of harm by the acts or omissions of his or her parent or other person responsible for the child's welfare. An "abused or neglected child" also means a child who is sexually abused or at substantial risk of sexual abuse by any person.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
290. I'm smelling a very large rat, here--it was a wee mouse before. Now it's a honking water rat!
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 04:42 PM
Apr 2013

What doctor would risk their credentials by not mandatorily reporting?

Turbineguy

(37,206 posts)
145. If you are responsible for your Daughter,
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 06:21 AM
Apr 2013

the boyfriend's parents are responsible for him. Send them half the bills at the very least.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
147. you're contradicting yourself. You're claiming that your daughter has only
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 07:51 AM
Apr 2013

heard of abortion as murder in the same breath that you claim the social worker told her it was the best option. Did the social worker referred to abortion as murder? Have you? Have the people at planned parenthood?

 

TheMadMonk

(6,187 posts)
257. On the news, in social media, perhaps in a hijacked "Health" class or 2.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 11:50 PM
Apr 2013

Clearly from her boyfriend. FFS, how is the entire anti-abortion argument characterised? MURDER!!!111!11!

I think you are perfectly aware that MichelleB meant in her daughter's life prior to it suddenly becoming personally applicable to her.

Your argument and the way you're presenting it, is straight out of the "Discredit the Victim" playbook.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
264. not in Vermont will you find a highjacked health class. No way. not in public school.
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 06:59 AM
Apr 2013

You clearly don't know Vermont anymore than the faux mother does. this is a bullshit story.

 

TheMadMonk

(6,187 posts)
274. May well be a bullshit story. But that is not the nit I'm picking.
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 11:38 AM
Apr 2013

It's your dishonest debating tactics. Silly semantic games are not OK if a Republican/Teabagger/Creationist play them, and they're bloody well not OK here either.



 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
282. "How does a twelve year old who has only heard of abortion referred to as murder, make it??"
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 01:58 PM
Apr 2013

Gee, I wonder where "she" heard it called "murder" ...

This thread is b.s.

REP

(21,691 posts)
190. A doctor should be involved in every pregnancy, period
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:07 PM
Apr 2013

When a pre-teen is pregnant, one would hope th OB-GYN involved has the patient's best interest in mind (as most do), and is brutally honest about the risks of pregnancy, labor and delivery at the age, perhaps even letting her see an educational film of a delivery (part of my sex-ed class when I was about that age).

Every pregnant woman (or girl) deserves and needs quality medical care during a pregnancy, whether or not she decides to carry to term. Every pregnancy has some degree of risk; that risk varies with the individual, and only a doctor can give the care and information appropriate to that individual.

As to where the line is: there is no line. My opinion is another matter, but when it comes down to it, even a 12-year-old has the right to make this choice.

Warpy

(110,900 posts)
33. Exactly. My bullshit detector is pinned.
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:39 PM
Apr 2013

It was the line about the swollen hands and feet. Toxemia doesn't present until far later in a pregnancy, no matter how young the girl is.

In any case, juvenile pregnancy isn't a death sentence if she's got access to medical care. There are a host of complications that will plague her all her life if she has them, but it won't kill her.

The whole thing is ridiculously overstated. Don't be sucked in.

lolly

(3,248 posts)
40. Yes, I was thinking that too
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:55 PM
Apr 2013

If they can get members of a liberal site to post a pile of messages saying that this 12 year old should be forced to have an abortion, then they can throw that all over the web and say we just want to "kill babies."

I think the anti-choicers all believe that Planned Parenthood's mission is to abort as many fetuses as possible, so it wouldn't occur to them that PP really IS pro-choice, and that they would support the right of the patient to choose at any age. They would want to make sure she has accurate medical information, including risks involved, but no, their official policy would be to avoid coercing her in either direction.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
72. Then what was wrong with me?
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 06:51 PM
Apr 2013

I began swelling at 6 weeks.

And, I didn't have toxemia. I'm just prone to hormonal swelling and I'm not a very tall person (most 12 year olds are taller than me). I swell a lot on my period, too. So much that I have a completely different wardrobe for that time of the month because I can't fit into my regular clothes.

I pretty much stayed swollen from six weeks on... couldn't wear my wedding ring by eight weeks.

I'm not saying the post isn't odd, but people do and can swell early. I did.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
135. Should be NO SWELLING
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:28 AM
Apr 2013

Hence, one of the many risks she's up against. I never stated that it was toxemia.. Or or those of us who know the proper term pre eclampsia, as she IS too early for that. The concern is poloyhydraminos or polyohydrous. To anyone who has had any of these conditions that are known to be life threatening they start as early as 6weeks.

onpatrol98

(1,989 posts)
255. Happened to my sister...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 11:37 PM
Apr 2013

She got pregnant @ 13. Worst days of our life. The swelling was horrible. Her feet and hands did swell. She still walked to school every day, but it was tough. She was an honor roll student, but was not allowed to join the honors club because she was pregnant. The father of the child was 16. It was the first time in our lives that we had to deal with social services. That was horrible, as well. The access in our case was that she was a latchkey child. Had a boatload of free time. And, no adult supervision after school. But, the truth of the matter is...when they're motivated, they're motivated. You can watch them like hawks, and still be surprised.

She did end up having the child. He'll be starting college shortly. He's a great kid. But, boy...that was tough for her to go through that young. Extended family members were not supportive. Some church members were, some were not. I don't know what to tell you. I wish the best for you and your family. I hope your child receives the best care and support possible.

 

alphafemale

(18,497 posts)
143. Knew it was a fake post at "gallevanting"
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 05:30 AM
Apr 2013

Who the fuck still says gallevanting?" Let alone type it? No one. Except maybe someone trying to seem like rednecks they've seen on TV.

riverbendviewgal

(4,251 posts)
150. my fraud detector is going off
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 08:15 AM
Apr 2013

I am retired now but my last job was in fraud detection. I get an immense instinct this is not ringing true. Gee, the mom is MichelleB!!!!! Planned Parenthood!!!! Vermont!!!!! abortion for 15 year old!!!! I have not read all the comments, yet get a gut feeling on this.

I caught the queen of Fraud Twice, years apart. Facebook has many fake IDs, I would not hold it as the ultimate truth recorder. My father in law had this little saying "The paper never refuses ink".

TexasTowelie

(111,278 posts)
302. I have a feeling you might be correct.
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 06:12 PM
Apr 2013

Check out this post from the other night:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12566852

I suspect that someone might be getting their chuckles reading the responses.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
199. Sounds like something an O'Keefe flavored RWinger would pose.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:32 PM
Apr 2013

... fully expecting a threadful of libs to advocate forced abortion on a child or something. And they didn't get it the first time 'round.

Hekate

(90,188 posts)
322. Makes me wonder why it is still here
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:18 PM
Apr 2013

I tried alerting on the thread days ago, but that was a no-go. Wonder if anyone else has tried.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
269. It's funny how they feel they have to add something to make it more awful
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 08:19 AM
Apr 2013

And that is the thing that reveals them.

Hekate

(90,188 posts)
96. That's what I thought
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 01:25 AM
Apr 2013

There is something about the prose that does not ring true. I find myself wanting to deconstruct the sentences, spelling, train of thought, motives.

Most of all, motive for coming here to DU to broach this topic. I don't get it. Of all places, DU. And we are being asked to provide medical and legal advice.

A pregnant 12 year old is at a very high risk for maternal and infant mortality. We know that. Anyone with any brains knows that. A 15 y.o. boy who seduces a 12 y.o. girl is skating on very thin ice legally himself -- he may be a minor, but she is not a teenager, she is a child in 6th grade. What's with that?

The story just does not smell right, and my warning sensors are going full blast. I think someone is trying to draw out DUers into saying things that can very easily be taken out of context and used against us.

Hekate

PS: I have seen a pregnant 12 year old, about 8 months along, and it is rather horrifying. She scarcely came up to her mother's shoulder. So I know it happens, but I was 21 when I saw that child and all I could think of was incest and molestation.

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
132. I was wondering that myself. Why DU of all places?
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:15 AM
Apr 2013

I would think she would go to a doctor for medical advice and call an attorney for legal advice. I'm sure she can find both of those as easy as she found an internet discussion board.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
291. And coming to an ARCHIVED thread to breach the topic, to boot....!
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 04:45 PM
Apr 2013

Damn the bad luck, they don't "bounce to the top" anymore--ruins a lot of fun!

 

southernyankeebelle

(11,304 posts)
6. This situation only makes me want to really watch who my granddaughter and wonder who she
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 02:57 PM
Apr 2013

is hanging around with. You know when I was a teen visiting my relatives in Italy I use to have to go with my cousin and her fiancee where ever they went. They were never allowed to be alone until they got married. That use to drive me crazy. Then I was never allowed to spend the night at my girlfriends house. Once I hit 14 I begged my dad to let me spend the night at a friends house who was having a birthday party. Well my dad called the parents talked to them and asked how many girls were going to be there and were there any boys coming. When he got a satisfied answer he drove me over and went to the door with me and talked with the parents again. In the morning he came and picked me up. I know my dad a strict on us but he was a loving dad and always worried about us. Now looking back I don't think it was a bad idea. He always we take us to the movies and the other parents would pick us up and bring us home. Maybe especially with our girls we need to tighten that rope a little better. My dad would say it's not that I don't trust you but it's what the guy is going to do I don't trust. He'd say a guy can't come on pregnant. I couldn't argue with that. We parents try our hardest and still kids fall through the cracks. You will get through this because you have no other choice. God be with you and your daughter.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
8. Possibly.
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 03:13 PM
Apr 2013

Hopefully I wasn't just a low flying mallard on this particular story. Time will tell.

If the originator of the story never makes an appearance, I'll delete and lock the thread. I think we should give her a chance to show up and reply. Personally, I believed her. (Obviously. ) I hope I wasn't wrong. I sent her DUmail so I guess we'll see. Her posts last night were between midnight and 3 am this morning so I suspect she'll be back later tonight.

TYY

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
134. Yeah, I hate to say this since the story could be true, but I think we are being trolled.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:19 AM
Apr 2013

If this was a long time DUer who posted this I'd be more inclined to believe it. But the poster in question has 17 posts and is asking for medical/legal advice on a political discussion board.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
136. She's no troll. Her story is true...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:42 AM
Apr 2013

...and we all had 17 posts once upon a time. Give her a chance, white_wolf.

TYY

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
137. Fair enough. I'll admit I'm biased in this because...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:53 AM
Apr 2013

this is a totally messed up situation and at least if we are being trolled then no one is actually being hurt. If the story's true then several people's lives have gotten a lot harder.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
141. Thank you white Wolfe
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 04:56 AM
Apr 2013

I only wish I was being hypothetical. But I'm not. My story is true. And I'm not some neglectful, involved parent. I was lied to. That's the gods honest answer. And I am definitely pro-choice. But she's only 12. She doesn't even "choose" to wear a coat in the snow. How can she choose this??

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
9. This sucks. But women own their own bodies.
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 03:13 PM
Apr 2013

That's why it's pro choice. As parents we like to think we are in control, but we don't own our children. We raise them.
As far as the financials are concerned, you may be able to file child support. His parents may be responsible. So contact csed in yr state.
Btw, she can get welfare and food stamps, not to mention Medicaid as soon as she provides a pregnancy verification from a doctor. A friend of mine got pregnant in 8 th grade that is how I know. Since she is so young a social worker will work with her to make sure she takes parenting,etc.

Warpy

(110,900 posts)
65. She still owns her body
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 06:26 PM
Apr 2013

Pregnancy is risky at any age. However, it's not a death sentence and a 12 year old can't be forced to continue or abort a pregnancy.

Sorry about that, but that's how it is and that's a good thing.

 

Hell Hath No Fury

(16,327 posts)
11. Frankly, this sounds like --
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 03:20 PM
Apr 2013

a white person trying to sound like a "black person" in an attempt to stir some racial stereotyping/shit. Happens here with Trolls all the time. Just my opinion.

Control-Z

(15,681 posts)
13. Wtf???
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 03:37 PM
Apr 2013

Sounds like a "black person"????? How? What does a black person sound like? What a stupid thing to say.

lolly

(3,248 posts)
44. Don't think it was meant that way
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 05:00 PM
Apr 2013

In fact, I think you're on the same page as the post you're replying to.

IOW, the story sounds like it's someone making a lame, stereotypical attempt here.

Hekate

(90,188 posts)
98. I caught one once
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 01:35 AM
Apr 2013

Just happened to notice the difference in "voice" between one of the subgroups and General Discussion. It's a little hard to explain, but in that instance the writer was actually claiming to be black in one group and not mentioning it in another, and the "voice" shifted when she claimed to be black. It was very odd. And I was right.

I don't know what's with this current poster who washed ashore here. We'll see.

Response to TeeYiYi (Original post)

cbdo2007

(9,213 posts)
16. So let the 12 year old have the baby. It's really not that big of a deal.
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:01 PM
Apr 2013

Maybe a baby will help fulfill her life in some way so just let her do what she wants. 150 years ago 12 year olds had babies and they turned out just fine. A 12 year old having a baby is hardly the worst thing I can imagine. Sounds like the 12 year old and her mom don't have a very close relationship anyways, so maybe this will help bring them together and encourage the mom to supervise her kid more and actually be a mom to her.

Good luck and have fun. Babies are really cute and wonderful!!

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
18. Wow. Just. Wow.
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:06 PM
Apr 2013

"maybe this will help bring them together and encourage the mom to supervise her kid more and actually be a mom to her" = One of the suckiest things I have *ever* read on DU.

Wow.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
22. I am wondering if it was made under the assumption it is a "troll" post.
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:15 PM
Apr 2013

In which case the cruelty / flippancy might be an attempt at dark humor?

I feel like I need to take a shower after having read it, tho. ICK!

Control-Z

(15,681 posts)
36. This entire thread is
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:43 PM
Apr 2013

making me uncomfortable. I feel like maybe we should show a little more compassion. Perhaps give MichelleB the benefit of the doubt? I don't know if her story is real. I do know I'm not afraid of getting trapped because of something I might say. I'm kind of waiting to see if she comes back, though, before I say anything.

It doesn't feel right that she is being attacked when she isn't here to defend herself. If she really came here looking for help I doubt she'll stay after what's been said.

cbdo2007

(9,213 posts)
25. Not sure what the shock is all about....
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:22 PM
Apr 2013

myself and my siblings would never have had the chance to have sex, or even be alone with people of the opposite sex when we were 12, so it's safe to assume the mom isn't that involved in the kids life. Now she wants to be involved all of a sudden to force her girl to have an abortion against her will?? I'm just as opposed to people forcing someone to have a baby as I am them forcing someone to have an abortion. Have the baby....or have the abortion....it's really not that big of a deal either way in the long run but either you support choice or you don't.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
27. The mother stated that the girl lied to her about where / who
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:31 PM
Apr 2013

she was going to be with, which unfortunately, is plausible when dealing with this age group, so it doesn't sound like the mother was enabling the behavior, but rather was oblivious to the fact her daughter had made a decision to become sexually active before the mother thought it was an issue that had to be discussed in depth/detail. (Twelve years old - I have nieces/nephews in that age range, and I probably wouldn't have assumed their parents needed to talk to them about such things until they were in junior high school, so the entire posting has been a bit of a wake-up call to me - urk!)

I am pro-choice. I still find the situation to be terrible, and frankly was just appalled by your flippant cruelty / automatic assumption of uncaring / bad motherhood.

For this family (assuming it isn't a fake post, which I don't think it is - I personally believe the mother was probably googling looking for anybody who had been in this type of nightmare before), it kind of *is* a big deal, with repercussions that will be felt for decades to come regardless of the decisions that are made.

I just feel bad for them.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
84. OMG!! Thank you!!
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 12:41 AM
Apr 2013

Thank you for your sympathy!! And you nailed it DIRECTLY on the nose!! It just seems I'm helpless!! And I have googled and searched because I'm sure I'm not the only one who's ever been in this situation. But man does it feel lonely. We get the bad parenting remarks A LOT. But it wasn't the case. She's always or so I assumed, been honest with me. And besides this has proven to be a really smart and responsible child. But child none the less. I just don't kno what direction to turn. I'm watching all this go on and hear big words that even scare me like polyohydrous and poloyhydraminos. What is that?? And all I kno is that it can be life threatening. And I have no say as to what goes on.

Hekate

(90,188 posts)
100. You do have a say. And you should get a lawyer. And you should be there in the exam room.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 01:48 AM
Apr 2013

And you should tell the doc to slow down and explain. He is talking to a non-medical-professional adult and a child.

You are in a terrible situation and need an advocate for yourself, but we cannot give you either medical or legal advice. Please, please contact people who can. Planned Parenthood has counselors for you. They are not an abortion mill. They will educate you and your daughter about your separate needs. Social Services will have to provide someone who can advise you how to obtain the means of support for two children (your daughter and her baby) -- medical, food, and so on.

You have already found sympathetic ears here, and have seen some arguments start. Now you have to get away from the keyboard and begin to think rationally about who can give you genuine help in real life.

Best of luck,

Hekate

NotThisTime

(3,657 posts)
142. She has no say here. We have a son who was 16 and we were not allowed to see his test results even
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 04:57 AM
Apr 2013

though we had to pay for them. We had to be responsible for him even as he was doing drugs (less so now we think). If a child is 12 or over you have absolutely no say here. Pay up and shut up, that's what we've gotten and that's what we did for a long 2 years before he turned 18. I in no way would be surprised by this story after what we went through. It was a very lonely time for us with very little help, actually no help.

 

slackmaster

(60,567 posts)
54. Not sure if serious
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 05:36 PM
Apr 2013

It's a HUGE deal and a major responsibility. I have never met a 12-year-old who had the maturity to handle having a baby.

Of course there is also the issue of who is going to PAY for the child's food, diapers, medical care, etc. That will in all likelihood end up being at least partly the taxpayers.

Somewhere out there is a sperm donor who probably won't be held accountable for that, or for the probable felony he committed when he impregnated the child.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
17. Mother cannot do anything
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:04 PM
Apr 2013

She cannot force her daughter to get an abortion and she'll be lucky if the state doesn't force her to financially support the grandchild.

dem in texas

(2,672 posts)
19. This is not for real
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:11 PM
Apr 2013

This is some anti-abortion person who is out fishing liberal sites to get some comments by liberals on being for abortion to use to further her anti-abortion agenda. I don't know if this is true, but I would be glad to place a bet on it. The story is too pat, notice the bad grammar and mis-spelled works and she hits all the hot buttons in her narrative.

uppityperson

(115,674 posts)
26. Good lord, you read my mind. Great summary of what I find off about this.
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:27 PM
Apr 2013

Trolling for "force her to have an abortion" or alternatively, "let her have a baby and be a drain on society" are the ways it can go.

Hot buttons and mispellings abound. Thanks, nice to know I'm not the only one seeing that.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
112. This is a shitty place to get medical/preganancy/legal advice, anyway....
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:25 AM
Apr 2013

It's just not a logical site for advice, and to post in an archived thread is curious in the extreme.

That said, I think you might have a point about the origins of the comments.

People in VT are very well educated, generally speaking, even those who just finished high school, and the grammar patterns are not "New England" at all--so that kind of sticks out, too.

Governor Dean spent a lot of time and energy on the educational system, after all, equalizing it across the state.



MichelleB

(80 posts)
126. Really??
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:03 AM
Apr 2013

I am most certainly from Vermont, and not only THAT, I DO have some college credits behind me. I also work with autistic children with varying degrees on the spectrum. So don't criticize my education or intelligence based on how I type. And if you know SOO much about Vermont, you would know that deans son was arrested on drug charges and his daughter is pro gay. As is this state. What this state ISN'T is pro parent.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
148. I know a lot about Vermont. I've lived here for 35 years. In the Kingdom.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 07:58 AM
Apr 2013

And I worked in social services for many years and as a GAL.

I'm having trouble with your story, why you chose to post it here when you don't have any history or relationships here, and no you don't sound like you're from Vermont to me. granted that is a leap. Call it gut. Or whatever. And Vermont is strongly pro-Parent. It's utter bullshit to claim it is not.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
167. Tell that to DCF
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:04 PM
Apr 2013

Vermont is highly pro choice. And your Sooo wrong when u say it's pro parent. Try living here. Which I really don't think u have. You CAN'T tell where a person is from by the way they text or post. And to assume you can tells me just how judgementative you REALLY are. Unless YOU have a pregnant 12 year old or had one you can't know what I'm going through and what desperate measures you would go to to find information.

uppityperson

(115,674 posts)
171. Are you calling cali a liar? I agree, "You CAN'T tell where a person is from by the way they text..
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:26 PM
Apr 2013

"You CAN'T tell where a person is from by the way they text or post."

And now you call cali, an established DUer a liar. Whew.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
179. I don't have any doubt that this poster is NOT from Vermont.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:50 PM
Apr 2013

and is what so many of us think she is. First of all, I can't imagine that there's a single Vermonter who doesn't know what the Kingdom is, and secondly, this insistence that Vermont isn't pro-parent is wingnut rhetoric. Vermont is known across the country for its pro-parent policies from pregnancy on.

 
213. I agree with you..
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 04:13 PM
Apr 2013

Having lived in another state almost all of my life, and I even know what the Kingdom is.

Only because I read here in DU, a big Dean fan, and have a college best friend who is from Rutland, Vermont.

Response to uppityperson (Reply #171)

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
177. Hello? Did you read my post? I've lived here for fucking decades. In the Kingdom. Odd as hell
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:47 PM
Apr 2013

that you don't know what the Kingdom is. ALL vermonters do. All of us who actually do live here. And I worked for years in social services in Vermont with DCF as well as being a parent here myself and being a GAL.

You are full of it.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
249. Yeaaa and im in Winooski!!
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 10:52 PM
Apr 2013

I don't care if you claim to be a Vermonter or not. Anyone who has dealt with DCF or anything of that nature know that parents don't have rights. As a matter of fact, I'm working with a DCF worker now. I refuse to argue the validity of my story with you. As you from the kingdom probably don't even know where Winooski is!!

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
267. Sneakers. IF You're from Winooski. You should know exactly what I'm referring to
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 08:01 AM
Apr 2013

Such bullshit about DCF and parents not having rights. YOU are the one who knows jack about this state. And frankly, if you are what you claim to be, it's sick shit that you're here posting about this on DU when you don't know a single soul here. There are plenty of VT resources, right through DCF. You are full of.....

MADem

(135,425 posts)
304. WTF are you on about with that "PRO GAY" remark? You're definitely in the wrong place.
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 06:41 PM
Apr 2013

You certainly have improved in your diction, grammar and spelling from your remarks in the OP. The "For reals/gunna/'weather'" is gone, and now, we're down to "accusations" that Howard Dean's daughter is...gasp....PRO GAY!!! That comment DOES speak to your level of education and not in a good way.

Oh, the HORROR! I'd ask you what's wrong with being "pro gay" (FWIW, I am "pro gay" and so is everyone else on this message board) but you can't answer me as you've managed to have a post hidden in this thread already for sticking your foot in it. I think your bigotry is calling you --- we're an EQUALITY crowd here, so if you don't like "pro gay" people you have taken a wrong turn.

And plenty of people on this board are "pro-drug" in that they approve legalization of marijuana. I happen to be amongst that group, too.

And being "pro-gay" and "pro-legalization" doesn't make one "anti-parent." That illogical leap you made just doesn't fly.

You're being caught out by your misstatements in this thread. This post is one of the more egregious, frankly.

Avalux

(35,015 posts)
21. Umm... "She was all for aborting until the boyfriend had something to say about it. He'd leave her."
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:14 PM
Apr 2013

Sorry, but I've raised three daughters. Why in the hell does her 12 year old have a boyfriend who is still in the picture? He'd leave her?

Why doesn't her daughter know what a bowel movement is at 12 years old? She should, and she should also know all about pregnancy and stds if she has a boyfriend and she's menstruating. It's mom's fault she hasn't taught her daughter; but what can I expect when mom can't even spell?

I would allow no further contact with the boyfriend or his family. I would find a counselor for my daughter, and work with that person to figure out what's best for my child. Oh - and get her tested for STDs.

That's if this is real, which I don't think it is.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
24. Funny how the mom is automatically to blame, isn't it?
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:21 PM
Apr 2013

Because she didn't raise her daughter better, or know she had a boyfriend, or have a better talk with a twelve-year old about pregnancy and STDs, or was aware that her daughter was lying to her, or that her daughter was sexually active?

We believe it is the mother's duty to protect her child from all of these things - including ignorance - and now there is a child with a child on the way (if it isn't a scam story - personally, I think the mother did google during a moment of desperation and found the old thread, and reality is that these things do sometimes happen).

This is a "no-win" scenario for this family; the repercussions will be felt for decades to come regardless of what happens next.

My sympathies to them all.

kiva

(4,373 posts)
156. Jury results
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 12:20 PM
Apr 2013

Automated Message
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message
At Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:55 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

because this is clearly trolling bullshit. for pete's sake, Ida.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2662938

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Unfounded accusation

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Apr 13, 2013, 04:04 PM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I'm gonna leave this one alone because it isn't directed toward Ida Briggs, and the 3-post member who originated the story may indeed be a troll.

Let it stay.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Sorry, I tend to agree with Cali on this one. It looks to me like somebody posted a story trying to tempt DUers to agree that a mother should be able to force her daughter to have an abortion. I'd nuke the whole thread as inappropriate before I would hide this post. Does a thread like this fill the purpose of GD?
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: When I read this the first time (before I ever got jury duty on anything in this post), I pretty much took it for trolling bullshit, too. Classic "watch the liberals force this girl to have an abortion" meme. While others may disagree, this is the opinion of many of us - that it's just a trap to get us to agree to a forced abortion (anti-choice advocates often say that we aren't just for choice - we are for forcing women to have abortions).

The story has too many holes for me to believe that this woman's daughter is 12 years old and sincerely pregnant. The father of the baby is allowed to see her until someone mentions that the father would never get near their 12 year old daughter.. uh, huh.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

one_voice

(20,043 posts)
23. Hmmm...
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:17 PM
Apr 2013

Um, not sure I buy this. All the points were hit: abortion, murder, planned parenthood. Evil liberals encouraging a mother to find a way to force her innocent 12 year to murder her child.

I don't know...I could be wrong...but...

In a very old thread no less. How did they know it was there? It was GD thread from Feb that's pretty far back.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
226. right on every point
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 05:41 PM
Apr 2013

someone is trolling to get a democratic message board to support a forced abortion. brietbart type bullshit.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
118. So many "'hoods" in Vermont, doncha know.....
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:33 AM
Apr 2013

Mooo! Moooo~!

"Who you mooing at (insert vulgar swear here)?"


The cows carry switchblades!

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
234. it reads like some brietbart wannabe (or actual brietbart staffers) mimicking
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 06:38 PM
Apr 2013

what they imagine black people, or just poor people, write like.

yes

Peregrine Took

(7,408 posts)
30. Sounds a little too much like the plot to "Up to the Lake" but I'll offer advice.
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:33 PM
Apr 2013

Baby goes up for adoption. That's it. My friend did it at 15 and everything turned out fine for her and her daughter.

No one has to encourage or push a "forced abortion." She can home school for a year or go stay with relatives. There are very serious consequences to her actions and she needs to learn that.

This way she can't turn around and blame her mother for the rest of her life.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
235. as i said upthread
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 06:45 PM
Apr 2013

it reads like a brietbarter trying to imitate what they imagine a black or poor person writes like in order to bait some DU posters posting something resembling support for a forced abortion.

it is disgusting and obvious.

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
35. i dont buy it for one second.
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:43 PM
Apr 2013

if you had a major life crises like this, would you take it to a political board, where you have never posted before?

it makes no sense

 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
37. I'm calling anti-choice troll BS. Oh, and how old is the BF? He's probably older and
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:50 PM
Apr 2013

needs to be prosecuted for raping a minor.

Mz Pip

(27,403 posts)
49. My thoughts too
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 05:27 PM
Apr 2013

How old is this guy? The girl is 12?

Back when I worked for a pregnant and parenting teen program the average age of the fathers was 28. A lo of these young girls got pregnant by "family friends" or even worse, boyfriends of the mothers.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
66. Her post was a response...
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 06:28 PM
Apr 2013

...to this OP:


Pregnant 12 year old threatens suit to carry to term despite parents wishes

I made that up, but I'd like to know y'alls opinions on it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022400807


TYY
 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
39. Her body, her choice. 10 years old or 70, no matter what.
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:54 PM
Apr 2013

Having a baby will not be the end of her life, it will (unfortunately) be the premature end of her childhood.

The alternative is China, where women are strapped down and their babies are forcibly aborted.

mn9driver

(4,412 posts)
42. This. Is. A. Troll. Lock the thread.
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:56 PM
Apr 2013

The summary of how Vermont law works in minor abortion cases is misleadingly written and skillfully slanted to "create" this fictional issue. This is a Troll, Troll, Troll.

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
45. Thanks for this input.
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 05:04 PM
Apr 2013

I was trying to find info about what the law would say, and I wondered if this was a situation that would just happen to fall into some ambiguity.

ropi

(976 posts)
71. yes...agreed
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 06:45 PM
Apr 2013
http://lobby.la.psu.edu/_107th/094_Right_to_Know/Organizational_Statements/CRLP/CRLP_and_no_parental_involvement_laws.htm

The Law in Vermont Pertaining to Minors’ Access to Abortion
There is no forced parental involvement law for minors seeking abortions in Vermont. A minor who wishes to obtain an abortion may do so without any legal requirement that she involve her parents or that she seek a court order exempting her from forced parental involvement requirements.

...There is more at the link.

Shrike47

(6,913 posts)
59. This smells trollie. If not,
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 06:13 PM
Apr 2013

She needs to obtain the services of an attorney and obtain Juvenile Court involvement. It sounds like she's trying to coerce her daughter into an abortion. Inappropriate. Daughter needs her own attorney which she will have appointed for her in Juvenile Court. Child Welfare should be able to help her get Juvenile Court involvement if she can't afford an attorney to get things going.

If this whole thing is true, the father and his family might be a better resource for the ultimate baby.

And if she doesn't know what a bowel movement is yet, I bet the family's got another phrase for it. In fact, I bet I know what that phrase is.

 

TheMadMonk

(6,187 posts)
263. Which might well be the goal of the father's family.
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 12:34 AM
Apr 2013

Do/did they like kids? Do/did they want more? Were they able to have more?

I don't know on BM. Some families can find these subjects so embarassing, that they litterally tune it out. they know a safe euphenism: "tinkle", "fluff", "doo-doo". One has to wonder how many times paediatricians have rolled their eyes and looked to a parent for the right word necessary to extract the appropriate information from a patient. And not all 12 yo's are allowed to watch House.

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
60. Strip her room. Take away all the fun in her life.
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 06:14 PM
Apr 2013

Point out to her that her childhood is now over. If she wants to be a parent, then she needs to act like an adult. No partying, no hanging out with friends when the baby needs to be taken care of, etc. Tell her she'll also need to contact a lawyer about nailing the baby-daddy for child support, because you plan on charging money to babysit regularly. It's her kid, not yours.

Also, pull her out of school. Right now. Put her on a home study program so that she can watch her own kid when it comes.

Your daughter needs to understand the seriousness of the situation and the fact that she is about to permanently change the course of her life, and adopt responsibilities that most of her peers won't have to deal with for at least another decade. Most importantly, you need to drive home to her that, at the end of the day, SHE is responsible for her children...not YOU.

If you can drive that home, she may reconsider keeping the pregnancy, or may at least put it up for adoption after birth. I personally know of several young women who initially planned on keeping their babies, but who ultimately gave them up (some aborted, some adopted) once they realized that they were ending their life, and that they'd be spending the next several years wiping crap off of baby asses while their friends were all out partying and having fun and going to prom.

A child needs an adult as a parent. Give her a crash course in the reality of adulthood.

JI7

(89,172 posts)
63. i think this story is fake, but assuming it's true, if she wants to have the baby that's what you
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 06:25 PM
Apr 2013

need to let her do and support her. you can kick her out when she is 18 .

MADem

(135,425 posts)
121. I think it's fake, too, but if it's true, she should sue the parents of the boy for monetary
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:39 AM
Apr 2013

damages--her life has been impacted by being forced to be a grandmother to a child she will have to support.

Ask the DA to charge the 15 year old boy with "assault" if they can't get him on a statutory rape charge.

There's lots that could be done in this situation, and there are lots of websites that are far better equipped to provide advice than "archived" threads at DU.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
123. You're being unfair...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:48 AM
Apr 2013

...She had no way of knowing it was an archived thread. I replied to that thread too, before realizing that it must be archived because it didn't show up at the top of GD.

TYY

MADem

(135,425 posts)
124. No I'm not.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:52 AM
Apr 2013

It's hard as hell to FIND an archived thread--I was looking for one today, I know my way around the site, and still couldn't find it.

There are no "hoods" in VT, except the ones that the farmers wear when it's snowing and the wind is blowing really bad on the way out to the barn. Unless this person is a transplant from another part of the country, those speech patterns don't fly.

I am suspicious of this entire tale for the reasons stated by others. It just smells "off" to me.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
127. Did you even look at the OP she responded to?...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:04 AM
Apr 2013

...It's all about a pregnant 12 year old suing her parents. And, as it turns out, it's totally made up by one of our long time DUers.

I'm sure the thread was found through google. She was probably googling situations similar to her own and ran across it, signed up and posted to it.

Her story is real. You can choose to believe me when I tell you that I've verified her story, or you can continue with the ridiculous snark about farmers and cows. But seriously, it's just reflecting badly on you at this point.

TYY

MADem

(135,425 posts)
294. Gee, maybe an IP comparison wouldn't be amiss.
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 05:03 PM
Apr 2013

I think any "for real" story that includes false information about what constitutes rape in a state, along with mandated reporters who conveniently refuse to report (risking their medical license...for what?), is suspect. In the extreme.

YMMV. I think your "verification" strategies need a bit of work.

I was born at night, but not last night. This thread wins DU's shit stirring prize of the week.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
133. Google: Compliacation of pregnant 12 year olds...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:18 AM
Apr 2013

It will take you though a bunch of threads.. Articles and everything else. Then refine your search to pregnant 12 year old. The thread will come up as 12 year old threatens to carry through pregnancy against parents will. ~it will bring you to this sight. And you can't respond until you build an account. That is how I ended up here. I never knew this forum even existed until then. So I built an account only to find out the original thread was a hypothetical one. In desperation, I posted. I can't be the only parent out there with a sneaky 12 year old girl. Anyway, I refuse to keep trying to prove my self to people so if you believe me then HELP with any suggestions worth trying. If not please keep your "troll" comments to your self. As I don't even know WHAT a troll is. And because I speak fluent "IM" doesn't make me an under educated fool. Thank you.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
293. Not much though....and it's what, a forty mile bike ride to "dangerous" Montpelier from Winooski?
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 04:59 PM
Apr 2013

I gotta say, I find this story just beyond belief. The mandated reporter doctor that "refused" to report was the icing on the cake for me. Damn those Doctor Dean liberals!!! Harrrumppphhh!!!

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
296. lol. no kidding
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 05:17 PM
Apr 2013

this story is so ridiculous and I really resent the fuck out of both the phony ass mom and the person who posted the op.

NotThisTime

(3,657 posts)
298. Burlington, Essex, Winooski, South Burlington all have "hoods" in them and I've met plenty of them
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 05:28 PM
Apr 2013

Hell, explain the shootings in SB and store robberies if there are no "hoods" around.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
300. Anyone can shoot anyone, or rob a store, anywhere--you don't need a "hood" to make that happen. nt
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 05:45 PM
Apr 2013

NotThisTime

(3,657 posts)
311. The hoods are supplying the hoods in Burlington
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 08:13 PM
Apr 2013
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20130307/NEWS02/303070036/UVM-police-Megabus-riders-brought-70-000-worth-of-drugs-to-Burlington-campus

Several times a week, just one example. You haven't hung around the bus or train stations in Essex too much have you? Or is VT too lilly white for you to imagine some of the teens and general population have totally gone off the rails into criminal activity usually a result of their drug addictions? Or that groups of teens or young people have colluded with each other to achieve whatever goal they have set? Usually criminal activity for drugs (wait I think I might have mentioned that once).... cause there's no meth or heroin problems here.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
313. Well, it is a little white for my crowd, but I've been up to the Northeast Kingdom a time or twenty.
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 08:27 PM
Apr 2013

And I started going up there many, many decades ago, when it was way whiter than it is today, back when I was a college kid.

Apparently, though, reading this thread, I know more as a visitor than at least one resident.

That said, if a 12 year old child--not a "teen"-- is hanging around the train and bus stations anywhere, for any reason, I'd say that parental supervision is the first issue to be addressed here.




 

cali

(114,904 posts)
318. wait a minute: You actually think that only gang members hold up stores or shoot people?
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 09:17 AM
Apr 2013

How extraordinary.

And Vermont's gang "problem" is miniscule.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
139. Please share them!!
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 04:40 AM
Apr 2013

I honestly don't know what to do but if you know of any websites I might find useful, PLEASE send them to me!!

MADem

(135,425 posts)
301. Try googling your state attorney general and legal aid for starters.
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 05:58 PM
Apr 2013

You're going to want to report that Mandated Reporter Doctor who didn't do his duty. That is a criminal offense and he'll lose his license and be fined at a minimum, maybe even worse. As soon as you do that and the story breaks that the doc's license is revoked, post the link to the news article here--we'll all be interested in seeing it and that is the sort of story that will get wide coverage throughout the region.

Then, since your daughter, per others here more knowledgeable in the law, is too young to offer consent, unlike her teen partner, you're going to need a lawyer because surely the AG is going to want to do something with this case. No one would "let it go" if the fifteen year old violated a five year old, who is also too young to offer consent, so they shouldn't "let it go" just because the child is a bit older. Actions have consequences. You also might want to sue the kid's parents for contributing to Teen Dad's delinquency, particularly if this supposed teen was screwing the supposed pre-teen in his supposed home.

Then, you might want to start networking with other grannies-to-be, because, making the assumption that this story is "for real" and not a load of made-up tripe, you will be a granny toute suite.

Hekate

(90,188 posts)
325. Excellent post, MADem
Wed Apr 17, 2013, 11:26 PM
Apr 2013

The OP and other contributions and claims from the supposed grandma-to-be are so far-fetched as to be an insult to the intelligence.

I am sorry that at least one DUer is so invested in the tale of woe that s/he can't see through it, but sometimes we do get carried away by our hearts.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
326. Thank you. I hope the mechanisms that keep DU reasonably pulled together are aware of this
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 01:21 AM
Apr 2013

mess of a thread. It is an insult to our collective intelligence!

SouthCarolina

(5 posts)
78. Adoption can be beautiful
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 12:22 AM
Apr 2013

It will mean a difficult time for you and your daughter. You will be facing issues much sooner and with more difficulty than you ever planned.

Adoption can make a bad situation wonderful for the baby and for the adoptive parents, while you and your daughter will have the difficulties and the loss, but you will always know you did the very best you could do.

Take care. All my thoughts and prayers are with both of you.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
80. Why are we discussing this?
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 12:27 AM
Apr 2013

It's none of our business, and MichelleB isn't even participating in this thread.

This thread should be locked.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
83. Did you miss post #73...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 12:30 AM
Apr 2013

Seriously? That's your helpful reply to this thread? Thanks so much for the input.

TYY

MichelleB

(80 posts)
85. No it shouldn't and yes I am!!
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 12:49 AM
Apr 2013

I've posted several responses to this!! And can some one PLEASE tell me what the hell a troll is?? Check out my Facebook!!

Response to uppityperson (Reply #89)

Response to MichelleB (Reply #90)

uppityperson

(115,674 posts)
93. Please do not post all this personal info, self delete please.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 01:05 AM
Apr 2013

It is against the rules to post this as well as not very smart because anyone can plat anyone on the internets qnd if you are teulu concerned for a child, it is best to talk directly to someone, lawyer, police for statutory rape, child abuse people, not anonymous people on a forum.

 

dkf

(37,305 posts)
114. Hey Michelle...some DUers are overly suspicious.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:26 AM
Apr 2013

Please don't take offense.

Wow what a dilemma you have. I don't think you have any choices anyway as this is your daughter's decision.

This happened to a high school friend's 13 year old niece and the grandmother of the baby landed up basically raising the child til her mother grew up. They were raised more like sisters than mother/daughter. I have a feeling that if she chooses to keep the baby this is what will happen because you recognize that 12 year olds aren't yet equipped to make good decisions.




uppityperson

(115,674 posts)
87. If he is 15 and she is 12, it is statutory rape and should be reported to police.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 12:55 AM
Apr 2013

Assuming anything written is real, it is statutory rape.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
94. Not in the state of Vermont
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 01:09 AM
Apr 2013

Because they're BOTH under the age of concent he can't be charged. I've talked to cops and courts and DCF. The list goes on.

 

SugarShack

(1,635 posts)
97. Too young for accountability? You must account for your daughter. Put the baby up for adoption.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 01:34 AM
Apr 2013

Of course she has no intentions of caring for this baby. You are on the wrong track when you say she has never changed a diaper. Has she ever BOUGHT a diaper? You cannot be forced to raise someone elses child, especially if you have no control of it being born. You can order your daughter, if she wants to give birth, and clear her guilt, tell her it will be put up for adoption. Period. End of story. Or, she can be the parent and raise the child. She cannot make you. You enable her from her on out if you cave in. Help her through the pregancy. Start getting her involved in the adoption process. Tell her she can request letters from parents who want her child, and she can pick them. They do this you know. She can do what a twelve year old can do in her situation. So can you. The baby is not your child. It's your grandchild. Tough decisions. But I agree, her life will never be what it can be. So step up. Start the adoption process and tell her how this will be handled. Adoption. Period.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
105. Adoption
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:03 AM
Apr 2013

We have an appointment with an options counselor coming up. And my only hope is that she does pick adoption if she chooses not to abort. But once again, I can't force her. I don't have a say in that either. However, I can choose for her to live in a young mothers home but they won't even take her yet because she is only 12. They'll give her parenting classes but that's all. Soo once again, I feel like a fish out of water.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
108. You mentioned the boyfriend's parents want her to keep the baby...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:13 AM
Apr 2013

...Are they suggesting that their son marry your daughter?

TYY

MichelleB

(80 posts)
119. Hahahaha!!
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:35 AM
Apr 2013

Nope. It's crazy what they're proposing!! They said they'd raise the baby til the kids were old enough to do so there self.... U kno as well as I do that it won't be that easy. You don't raise a kid for 6 years then give it away. And honestly, they're not going to b together that long. She'll put on weight and all other stuff and he'll go find another girl forgetting she even exsists.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
232. so she and the boyfreind are "together"? you permit this, or can't stop it?
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 06:29 PM
Apr 2013

yet you think you could make her have an abortion if only the law would allow? the boyfriend hasn't been arrested, though he broke VT law? you know (and even take into consideration) what his parents think, but don't know the law in your state governing this?

it isn't working.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
253. Allow me to explain...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 11:21 PM
Apr 2013

When She had the positive pregnancy test I forbade her to leave the house. No boyfriend. No friends.. Cell phones. Anything else. Being a working mother, she's left with a caretaker until I'm done. Which is usually anywhere between 10:30-11:30 pm. She took advantage of my step sis and asked to go out side. She allowed it. Checked on her in. 20 mins and again 20 mins later. Both times in the drive way. 15 mins later she went to check in her and she was gone. Ended up at boyfriends house..-2 towns away. So I had her escorted back by the pd. the pd said that if his mother picked her up at all that weekend that she would be arrested for kidnapping. She's not allowed -by me- to see or talk to the boyfriend. HOW EVER she has Internet access at school. And friends. With phones. And so, because I can't be with her at school, that's how she talks to him.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
315. What an absurd post. Parental rights do hold sway, here.
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 09:02 PM
Apr 2013

If this imaginary father is not to be prosecuted, as the OP insists, he then has "parental rights."

Screws your adoption paradigm all to hell, that. And a parent, no matter how young, can be forced to put her child up for adoption by a parent. The state could take the child into care, and terminate parental rights should there be irrevocable cause, but that's a last resort, not a first. Granny doesn't get to be the Decider.

 

Mr. X

(72 posts)
99. Theoretically though,
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 01:43 AM
Apr 2013

He could still be charged since it's a gray area of the law.

The age exception applies for those over 19 with children over 15. This case, neither of them would fall under the exception.

It's something that could be perused, should you be able to find a lawyer interested enough in it.

She's going to have the baby - As of now, anyway - but has she put any thought into what she will do with it?

If she plans to keep it, cut everything non-essential off. No more cellphone, internet, computer, expensive clothes, whatever. No more going out with friends, no more extracurricular activities, no nothing. Since she doesn't have a job to pay for the child, either you or the father (Or possiably his parents) will be paying for it. And since she will have a child, she doesn't have the time for all these other activities - She'd have a baby to look after.

In fact, use the above to scare her. Tell her what life is going to be like, for her, since you will now have to support her child. Tell her what her new obligations will be. Tell her to get used to not having anything expensive, not having the newest fashions, not having time for anything that she considers fun.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
101. Good Advice!!
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 01:50 AM
Apr 2013

I already started with the "you're not hanging with your buddies". And the first night she ended up taking off on the babysitter and ended up at his house!! I didn't let it go over either. I had the cops on her in two hours. She didn't like me much then. I simply explained, I have two kids and can't take off when ever I wanna. Nor can you. :/ took her cell and all her freedoms. If I hadn't trusted her in the first place, we wouldn't be here trying to figure out what to do. She says "don't blame your self. I lied." So I think she gets it but as a parent we blame ourselves for all. I just dk other then what u said, how else to slap her with reality. She'll be just barely over 13 when she births. What about when she's 15?? An all her friends are partying an having fun?? Or college?? Or anything??

 

Mr. X

(72 posts)
111. About college...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:18 AM
Apr 2013

A lot of teen moms don't go to collage because they lack the time or grades. Even then, time is usually a reason for them lacking the grades. A baby takes time- a lot of it. They simply don't have the time for collage, or the time to study enough to get the grades to go to collage.

Ironically though, her age would actually work to her favor. I might have my years off, but I'm assuming she's in the 7th right now? Well, anyway, she's going to miss a lot of school during the last months of her pregenancy and the recovery period. That would most likely result in her having to repeat a grade. When she gets to 11th and 12th, the years that are most important for those wanting to go to collage, the child isn't going to need a whole lot of care - It's going to be in daycare/school most of the time, giving her time to focus on school.

Still though - At her age a birth could easily prove fatal for her, the baby, or both. While girls her age can get pregenant, their bodies still aren't mature enough to allow for successful births. This isn't as severe a problem for 16 yearolds, but at her age it is a big concern.

Although, she's just now going through puberty - Her body is flooded with hormones. A pregnancy floods the body with even more. Because of this, it's likely that she will have a miscarriage.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
113. Feeling horribile
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:25 AM
Apr 2013

I feel like a horribile mother but I'm kinda hoping that happens. Then no one has to chose. It will be gods choice. And well leave that part to him. There's no way I can even imagine her in labor or birthing. I myself had two c-sections. And I kno the risks because I had to complicated pregnancies. That alone leaves her at higher risk. Not to mention age!! Her age and her development!! Her hips aren't even formed!! She's just blooming!!

 

Mr. X

(72 posts)
117. Sad isn't it?
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:30 AM
Apr 2013

That as morbid as it sounds, minus her changing her mind about a abortion, a miscarriage would be the best thing that could happen.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
120. For her own good
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:38 AM
Apr 2013

It is. An it's for the best. Yet I feel Soo bad thinking about it but I'm thinking about everything else involved too. Like HER life. She can have another baby when he's older and ready but I can't make another her.

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
165. Get yourself one of those compurterized baby dolls and have her start
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 01:58 PM
Apr 2013

by taking care of it now. Most high schools have them now. It will have to be fed, changed and clothed. It will cry in the middle of the night for no reason. Give her a taste of reality before the real baby comes. I'd give her two weeks the max before she makes a sense-able decision.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
168. Talked about that with a social worker
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:07 PM
Apr 2013

I talked about that with a social worker who's going to look into it. Because my child isn't in high school yet, it makes it a bit harder to get ahold of. But where there's a will then there's a way!!

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
172. A teacher or counciler at her middle school should be able to borrow one from the HS
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:34 PM
Apr 2013

for a couple of weeks. I know my nephew had to carry one around for a couple of weeks when he was in school. He's in his 20's now and still no kids.

But it is sad that for some reason these young girls these days don't feel loved and go looking for it in all the wrong places. When they become pregnant, they think that they will finally have someone to love them unconditionally. Unfortunately it starts out that way and suddenly the kids are going through the same thing their mothers did with them. It's just a vicious cycle that can go on for generations. I've seen it in my own family. All three of one of my sister's daughters quit school and became pregnant. Her youngest was just 3 months short of graduating then miscarried which (I hate to admit) I think is the best thing that could have happened. Her second oldest has one who just turned 3. If I hadn't been there for her, I really think she would have murdered him when he was an infant. I walked in on her one day and I'm not sure what she was doing, but I could have sworn she had a pillow over his face. My sister's oldest who I thought would never have kids because she was stuck taking care of her sisters when they were little (mom and dad liked to drink and party too much to pay proper attentions to their kids) is now on her 5th child. She loves having babies. I have to respect her though because she bought a run down house, rehab-ed it and is raising her boys with their father.

So- you can't tell her what to do. She has to make her own choice in regards to having a baby, but you can give her a big dose of what she's in for if she decides to keep it. And by all means- do what others have suggested here, go after the father and his family financially.

Control-Z

(15,681 posts)
102. I'm glad you came back
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 01:51 AM
Apr 2013

and would like to ask a few questions and maybe suggest a few things. But I'm going to bed now (so I can be up at 4 in the morning).

I hope you're willing to come back during the day again tomorrow when I'm awake and can converse.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
103. Thanks!!
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 01:53 AM
Apr 2013

Ill do my best to come back in the earlier hours but my day is already filled with work. And by the time I'm finished its close to 11:30pm. But I finish my first job around 2ish and will try to stop in then. glad to meet you!

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
110. Good luck, Michelle
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:17 AM
Apr 2013

Last edited Sat Apr 13, 2013, 05:02 AM - Edit history (1)

Even if the "worst" happens and your daughter chooses to have the baby and keep it, you will have a beautiful grandchild. May not have been the path you wanted, though, so you have my sympathy.

Hope everything goes well with the adoption counselor.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
116. Thank you!!
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:30 AM
Apr 2013

Thanks!! And it's not an adoption counselor per say. It's an options counselor. -not really sure what that is cuz this is all new to me too- but I hope for the best. I just kno how this is going to turn out. And maybe well be blessed with luck an all will work out. And I don't think I'd freak as much if she was older.. But she's 12!!

wickerwoman

(5,662 posts)
185. She's 12
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:00 PM
Apr 2013

but the fact is she's facing a decision that has the potential for long term psychological trauma no matter what she chooses. The likelihood and severity of that trauma becomes much greater in situations where she feels like she has no control or that someone else is pressuring her or making the choice for her.

She may not be mature enough to make "the best" choice but she is the one who has to live with it for the rest of her life. And the truth is there is no "best" choice here but the strong probability is that your daughter will survive and cope and grow no matter what she chooses.

I'm sure it's frustrating to have to sit back and watch your child make choices you don't agree with, but that's part of the parenting deal too. The truth is that many 12 years in the Third World and historically have been able to have children. It's higher risk, but it's not a death sentence or even likely to cause serious injury. It's scary to go into the doctor and hear all these complicated scary sounding medical terms floating around, but the odds aren't that likely.

What is far more likely is that if you pressure your daughter, it becomes your choice, not hers and she can turn around a blame you when grieving over the loss either or her child or her childhood.

kdmorris

(5,649 posts)
155. Please see my other post above - that doesn't appear to be true
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 12:16 PM
Apr 2013

"In Vermont, a person commits aggravated sexual assault if he is at least age 18 and has sexual intercourse with a person under age 10. This crime is punishable by up to life imprisonment.

Anyone, regardless of age, commits sexual assault in Vermont when he has sexual intercourse with a person, other than his spouse, under age 16. The penalty for this crime is up to 20 years’ imprisonment. "

The ONLY time that the age matters is when the victim is older than 16. If she is 16 and engages in intercourse with a man 21 years of age or older, it is statutory rape. Otherwise, it is not.

It appears that you need to do a little more research. Unless your daughter has married him, he is guilty of sexual assault.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/jud/rpt/2003-r-0149.htm

http://www.timesargus.com/article/RH/20090221/NEWS04/902210337/0/NEWS02

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
158. Are you saying...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 12:32 PM
Apr 2013

...that the law says a 15 year old boy having sex with a 12 year old girl is considered sexual assault in Vermont?

I just want to make sure because if this is accurate, then she may have some legal recourse after all.

TYY

uppityperson

(115,674 posts)
160. "Anyone, regardless of age, commits sexual assault in Vermont when he has sexual intercourse with a"
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 12:38 PM
Apr 2013

"Anyone, regardless of age, commits sexual assault in Vermont when he has sexual intercourse with a person, other than his spouse, under age 16. The penalty for this crime is up to 20 years’ imprisonment."

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
161. Well that's not exactly true...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 12:47 PM
Apr 2013

...according to this:

Vermont in 2006 changed its statutory rape laws to protect the so-called "Romeo and Juliet" encounters between consenting teens. Previously, Vermont had set the blanket age of consent at 16, which put a 17-year-old boy at risk of prosecution for having sex with his 15-year-old girlfriend. The 2006 revision allowed teenagers as young as 15 to consent to sex, provided the partner was within three years of their age.

http://www.timesargus.com/article/RH/20090221/NEWS04/902210337/0/NEWS02


That said, it does look like a 12 year old child is not capable of consenting to sex in Vermont so this could conceivably be considered as a statutory rape case. If she pursued this with the boy's parents, they might change their tune.

TYY
 

CokeMachine

(1,018 posts)
241. Wouldn't that make both of them guilty of sexual assault?
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 07:29 PM
Apr 2013

They are both under 16 so couldn't the boys parents have her charged with sexual assault if she tries to get the boy charged? As usual I'm probably missing something.

Take Care

kdmorris

(5,649 posts)
163. It appears to be saying that
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 01:33 PM
Apr 2013

Last edited Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:19 PM - Edit history (1)

I don't live in Vermont, but the statute, as I looked it up, says that, regardless of age, unless you are married, you cannot sleep with anyone younger than 15 in that state. They tried to change the law to lower the age to 13 in 2009, but that was shot down.

As far as I can tell (and I'm no lawyer), a 12 year old is unable to give consent in Vermont regardless of the age of the person she slept with, so yes, it looks like that is sexual assault.

(In Florida, where I live, a girl can consent at age 14, but only if the partner is not greater than 18 years of age. Anyone sleeping with a 13 year old here would be guilty of statutory rape, regardless of his age).

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
170. Thanks kdmorris...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:26 PM
Apr 2013

...That's how I read the link you provided.

It looks like MichelleB doesn't completely understand Vermont law. Hopefully she'll read this subthread. It would seem she has legal recourse after all.

I would let the boy's parents know what their options are, and from where I'm sitting...those options appear to be rapidly dwindling.

Thanks again, kdmorris.

TYY

wickerwoman

(5,662 posts)
144. If she's 12 and has never changed a diaper in her life,
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 05:31 AM
Apr 2013

maybe it's time for that to change. Can you arrange for her to spend a few hours looking after a toddler with only peripheral adult supervision? Any cousins to babysit or could she volunteer at a day care or a shelter for a few days?

Or just sit her down for a marathon session of Supernanny. Or do a trial run for a while with a doll she has to watch, change, feed and work to support.

You keep saying she doesn't know this and she doesn't know that, but at 12 she should be able to understand what having a baby would mean in terms of work, "gross stuff", loss of free time, frustration of dealing with a screaming, irrational child, etc. When my aunt was 12 she was raising her five younger siblings basically on her own. As a result of the experience, she was nearly 43 before she chose to have one kid of her own.

 

YarnAddict

(1,850 posts)
146. Even watching "16 & Pregnant"
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 07:46 AM
Apr 2013

I have watched that show a few times. The girls' stories are different, but the outcomes are remarkably similar: a boyfriend who doesn't want to be a parent, and isn't much interested in taking responsibility; money problems; school problems; watching the friends carry on with their lives, doing things a teenaged mom can no longer do; AND having to care for a baby--never easy, even under the best of circumstances.

I HATE what that show became--the girls seemed to become entitled little celebrities, but the concept was good.

cap

(7,170 posts)
151. Start sending the bills to the boyfriends parents today
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 09:06 AM
Apr 2013

Get an attorney to write up a document stating that they are legally bound to supporting both your child and the baby and that you are not responsible for the bills. Include all contingencies for a high risk pregnancy. Include paying the bills for your child and the baby should she become crippled for the rest of both of their lives. If you want to have fun, include loss of life time earnings. Make sure the parents know they are on the hook for the rest of their lives for the consequences. It is not just six years that they are on the hook. That baby has a high risk of being developmentally disabled. Let them pay for all the consequences for the rest of the baby's life.

Include stuff like babysitting, schlepping to doctors appointments, and whatever is needed to keep your child in school. Include all time Commitments.

An 18 year old boy working at Starbucks part time is not going to be able to pay for an apartment, food, clothes for a woman with a child. Explain that he needs a guarantor. Especially for a life time commitment to a disabled woman and or a disabled baby. Ask for full disclosure of assets. I would not be surprised If they back way off once they understand that they are on the hook permanently. Her boyfriend wouldnt be so full of "your murdering your baby" once the parents realize that their house and their retirement is on the line. Oh, if they have any thoughts about taking care of their own parents. Well, sorry grandma, but you will just have to wait.

For now, tell the parents that you want their son to be doing lawn work on Saturdays and Sundays to pay for the medical bills. Their son has to know the realities immediately. Every dime he makes goes to that child.

Explain that if the baby does not get proper care, both parents will have to give it up to the state authorities. Women get extraordinarily depressed when they give up their children. Not take some Zoloft depressed. But get electroshock and get institutionalize depressed.

Also, is there any peer coaching where some young mothers can tell your child the facts of life and that abortion at age 12 is not a bad decision. She is going to be quite lonely. At age 16, there are some young mothers out there. At age 12, not so much.
.

tblue37

(64,979 posts)
166. A pregnant child of that age is evidence of rape, even if she had
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:04 PM
Apr 2013

sex "willingly," because she isn't old enough to give consent! If it were my daughter (it would not have been, I assure you!),I would have "persuaded" the uncooperative boyfriend by having him arrested and charged with statutory rape.

tblue37

(64,979 posts)
194. From the OP, he is apparently the one who persuaded the girl not to have an
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:24 PM
Apr 2013

abortion when in fact she was at first onboard with the idea. He should not want the girl to carry the evidence of having been sexually molested at age 12!

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
208. OK, let's be clear: It's up to the girl-whether she was persuaded or not
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 04:02 PM
Apr 2013

Of course, I'm convinced this is all bullshit. the person telling this story just doesn't seem very familiar with Vermont.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
181. Apparently it's not too late for that...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:52 PM
Apr 2013

...and I hope she talks to an attorney.

Either that, or scare the boy's parents into getting them on board with talking to the kids about terminating the pregnancy and not continuing to exacerbate the situation with their "keep the baby" bullshit. Their darling boy is not going to have much of a future with a sex offender record under his belt.

And yes, I think this pregnancy should be terminated. Since it's not my call, they can look into adoption, but to suggest that a 12 year old child should have and raise a baby with a 15 year old rapist boyfriend is ludicrous.

Either way, it appears that in Vermont, MichelleB's got the law on her side.

TYY

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
187. so you're all for parents forcing a child to bear a child?
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:02 PM
Apr 2013

Look, it's simple. Choice means choice. Yes, there are greater risks to a 12 year old having an abortion than bearing a child, but this cannot be negotiable.

Furthermore, having lived in this state for four decades and worked for 15 years in social services here, I don't buy this person's story and her characterization of Vermont as not being pro-parent is garbage.

and knowing the state and the courts as well as I do- I'm a paralegal,l was Victim Advocate out of the SA office and served for many years as a GAL, I doubt that the boyfriend would be charged.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
193. If by "forced abortions"...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:23 PM
Apr 2013

...you mean using knock-out-drops...not quite.

But yes, I would absolutely insist that my 12 year old child terminate this pregnancy. I would also make her go to the dentist. That's just how I roll.

TYY

uppityperson

(115,674 posts)
197. At what age do you think someone should be allowed to chose? When should pro-choice kick in.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:27 PM
Apr 2013

thank you for being so clear you are anti-choice, or rather pro-forced abortion. It helps when someone is that clear.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
191. From my post...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:10 PM
Apr 2013

..."And yes, I think this pregnancy should be terminated."

If she were my child, we'd have already been to the gynecologist for a D&C, an std panel and some birth control pills.

TYY

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
192. that is wrong. As wrong as a parent who forces a child to bear a baby.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:18 PM
Apr 2013

Furthermore, the vast majority of gynecologists don't do abortions. If you think you could just waltz into a gynecologist's office with your 12 year old pregnant daughter and ask for a D&C, you're under a misapprehension. And if you walked into PP or any other clinic, it's unlikely that they'd perform an abortion against the girl's wishes.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
196. I didn't say...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:26 PM
Apr 2013

...against her wishes.

In my perfect mother/daughter relationship scenario, she and I would see eye to eye.

TYY

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
200. I would also insist...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:36 PM
Apr 2013

...that she stay in school. Do her homework. Make goals for the future. Go to the dentist. Go to the doctor for checkups. Have good personal hygiene. Get the HPV vaccination at 11. Start seeing a gynecologist and using birth control when she became of age...

TYY

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
203. From post #196...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:46 PM
Apr 2013

..."In my perfect mother/daughter relationship scenario, she and I would see eye to eye. "

As my daughter, we would agree together to terminate the pregnancy. We would also agree that she must brush her teeth and plan to go to college. Part of a mother/daughter relationship. Key on relationship.

TYY

uppityperson

(115,674 posts)
204. 2 things. hahahahahahaha. Secondly, "As my daughter", you are your daughter. Got it.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:50 PM
Apr 2013

There is no separation between you and your daughter as you are your daughter, your daughter is you. Hence nothing would be forced since she is you and you are her and you are the same person. Oh. Kay.

The first part, people do not always see eye to eye. Especially parents and kids. And since they don't, you are fine with forcing her to brush her teeth and get an abortion. Because, after all, those are comparable.

Yup, she got what she wanted on this thread. Congratulations for giving it to her. And yes, this thread and your replies are being quoted on other websites to show how awful we libruls are. Congratulations again.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
210. What are you? The grammar police?...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 04:06 PM
Apr 2013

Since she is MY daughter, she and I would see eye to eye. Part of the mother/daughter relationship.

When I was 12, I depended on my mother to guide me. Help me to make decisions and help me when I got myself into trouble; and I did get myself into all kinds of trouble. My parents were always there to bail me out. They still are. I would do the same for my daughter if I had one.

If I had somehow ended up mysteriously pregnant at 12 and my parents had recommended terminating the pregnancy, there is no doubt that I would have followed their advice. I don't think abortion was an option when I was 12 but it is now, and in this case, I would use it.

TYY

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
212. "Forced abortions." Whatever, uppityperson...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 04:12 PM
Apr 2013

...Guess you really WERE mad when I called you on requesting personal information.

TYY

uppityperson

(115,674 posts)
214. You mean when you falsely accused me of it. Not mad but it all is coming together now.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 04:15 PM
Apr 2013

Asking to clarify what someone says is "requesting personal information" for you. You don't have a daughter but envision a perfect world where she'd agree to being you and going along with everything you want so it's ok for someone else to force their pregnant daughter into getting an abortion.

You are very clear.

uppityperson

(115,674 posts)
217. You agree with forced abortions and take pride in making someone mad. Huh.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 05:01 PM
Apr 2013

And I am in no way your "bro".

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
242. Ok, uppityperson, get ready for it...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 07:55 PM
Apr 2013

I am truly sorry that I pushed your buttons earlier, the way that I did. I should have stopped when you asked me to. I don't know what got into me but I am sincerely sorry that I upset you as much as it appears that I did.

I hope that you can forgive me. I really was a pain. I shouldn't have pushed you so far. Again, I'm sorry.

TYY

MADem

(135,425 posts)
307. I find your continued endorsement of this OTIO rather curious.
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 06:54 PM
Apr 2013

You're ignoring all the evidence people are bringing to this thread. The story doesn't hold up, the "voice" of this person has changed from trailer-park to community college in terms of spelling and grammar over the course of the conversations, and the anti-gay/kid smoked pot accusation against our dear friend Howard Dean just stinks on dry ice.


Anyone who makes shitty remarks about EQUALITY doesn't belong here at DU--and that's in the TOS.

I think you may want to revisit your anxious defense of your new friend.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
309. Exactly
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 07:23 PM
Apr 2013

This stunk to high heaven as a story to begin with, but now it is just getting ridiculous.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
224. The entire story is BS
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 05:26 PM
Apr 2013

I don't know what is being extorted - money or political influence or something else, but it is bullshit all of the way around. How do you propose she go to the hospital to deliver? A 12 or 13 year old going to deliver a child is going to trigger an investigation (with good reason) of rape.

The bullshit is so knee-deep in this story, and the suspension of disbelief necessary to even START to believe it are so steep, it's a wonder anyone got taken in by it to start with.

I think I need to hone my story telling abilities and discuss how my cat got impregnated by an alien, and how I need funds to fight the legal battle to regain custody of her from the government that took her in an attempt to cover up the existence of aliens. Or I could discuss how an egg in my refrigerator hatched, and now I have to take care of the chick that hatched - please send money so I can build a chicken coop.

Good grief.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
220. It's horseshit
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 05:14 PM
Apr 2013

"Mods", "Admins" nor anybody like that "need to look into this". It's unmitigated horseshit for a number of reasons, starting with the fact that validating her pregnancy with a doctor would automatically trigger an investigation. If she even went to school, it could be reported there.

Beyond that, Facebook would have a legal reason to authenticate this, and even BEYOND that, there are ways to determine such allegations.

It's horseshit. I don't know if it is a ploy for money, a political ploy, or both, but I do know it's a hoax.

Ilsa

(61,675 posts)
206. I would tell the girl that the boyfriend will leave her
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 03:58 PM
Apr 2013

because her figure is going to be changed before and after the pregnancy, and a 15 year old boy isn't mature enough to love a postpartum body.

That should help end this desire to please that rapist asshole.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
324. Oh, he'll leave her...
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:51 PM
Apr 2013

...right before he turns 16. If he hasn't already. He can't legally have sex with her once he turns 16. I'm sure he's well aware of that.

TYY

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
218. There are ways
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 05:05 PM
Apr 2013

that both related and unrelated to government agencies can access the information to find out if a facebook page is accurate or not, as well as if a construct of a person is true or not. The fact that neither have acted, including the organization of Facebook should clue you in on the veracity of everything connected to this story.

If you haven't seen it, heard it, and experienced it in person, I hate to tell you this - but you are being taken in by a scam to extort funds and political gain from those who wish to be helpful.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
245. I hope you're wrong, Aerows....
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 09:20 PM
Apr 2013

I absolutely believe that this woman, MichelleB, has a 12 year old daughter that's pregnant by a 15 year old boy. I believe that she ended up at DU while searching for answers on the internet regarding her 12 yo pregnant daughter. Probably through google. I think that she's looking for anyone to chime in and give her suggestions or a sympathetic shoulder.

If this turns out to be as you say, a scam to extort funds and political gain, then I guess I can single-handedly claim and own the title of "Most Gullible Person on the Internets."

I haven't seen where she's attempted to exploit political gain or tried to extort funds of any kind here at DU. Her fb page is no different than any other fb page... It has friends and family posts, pictures, work and school discussions, etc. Completely normal. It's your typical 'mother of two' facebook page; including gps which places this family in Vermont.

Feel free to IM me if you think I need to buy a clue.

TYY

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
270. Here's the first reason you need to buy a clue.
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 10:20 AM
Apr 2013

Just how do you think she's going to deliver a child without being seen by a doctor? Do you think she is going to school? Apparently, this "issue" has been going on long enough that no doubt the girl is beginning to show.

By LAW, school officials of EVERY type are required to report the pregnancy of a child under 14. By LAW, doctors, nurses and medical workers are required by LAW to report the pregnancy of a child under 14. Who the father is makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE, because this is a clear case of child molestation - because she's 12. An investigation would automatically be triggered to determine who the father is so that that person can be charged with rape of a minor child.

Unless this girl has never seen a physician and isn't going to school (which is another issue, altogether), this is blatantly unable to occur. Secondly, I find it incredibly hard to believe that no one has contacted CPS, because if this was a reality, that would be the very FIRST thing I would do because any mother that would stand by when her 12 year old girl got pregnant and didn't seek to press charges isn't fit to be one.

You are being played.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
277. Why do you think...
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 12:14 PM
Apr 2013

...she hasn't been seen by a doctor? The child has been seen by doctors, social workers, councilors, Vermont courts, Planned Parenthood, DCF, two police departments. It's as though you haven't read anything she's written in this thread.

I doubt the school is involved yet since she's only 7 weeks along but maybe they are. Regardless, DCF is already involved and if you've ever been involved with DCF, it can be an unpleasant and frustrating experience.

The girl goes to school every day. The mother works swing shift so she doesn't get home until 10:30 or 11 at night. She has someone watch the kids while she works. That's how the daughter managed to escape to her boyfriend's house two towns over. The daughter received a police escort home and the cops told the mother that she might be able to press kidnapping charges against the boy's mother if she was involved in driving her daughter to see the boyfriend.

There were several helpful posts in this thread that encouraged MichelleB to contact an attorney on Monday. That's her plan at this point; to follow up on possible charges against the boy.

Unfortunately, the bullies at DU finally got her locked out of this thread so I doubt she'll be back.

I hate the way new people are treated here at DU. It's shameful. This girl came here looking for help and got a big helping of bullshit instead.

TYY





 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
281. It has been pointed out repeatedly
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 01:57 PM
Apr 2013

A pregnant 12 year old is the victim of rape in all 50 states.

I don't buy this story for a minute. That girl would not be in that home for more than ten minutes after this was reported. Someone has an agenda here, it's as plain as day.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
219. i smell bullshit. if it is true, shame on her (the mom)
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 05:06 PM
Apr 2013

for putting her daughter's situation out to the world like that.

if it is not true, shame on the troll for trolling.

I am leaning to the latter.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
248. People sign up on DU all the time...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 10:09 PM
Apr 2013

...to find like minded people. Why else would DU have so many different interest groups to subscribe to? I belong to a few of them myself... Bicycling, Buddhism, LGBT, Feminism....to name a few.

I think it was completely normal for her to look on the internet for a forum where she might find answers and a sympathetic ear. In a forum setting, discussing her daughter would be part of that.

I came to DU looking for someone to empathize with me about 9/11, Bush Junior and the looming Iraq war. In times of trouble, we all seek the solace of strangers.

I don't believe she's a troll. Just a frustrated young mother with a heavy heart.

re: shame on her for putting her daughter's situation out to the world like that.


TYY

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
246. You too, Ruby?...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 09:50 PM
Apr 2013

What if it IS real? A real person with two young children, one of whom might be pregnant at the tender age of 12?

What if this person, MichelleB, really is who she says she is; a frustrated young mother looking for some answers on the internet. A mother in need of advice...or looking for empathy, and found herself here at DU?...

...and because she is new to DU, she is being treated as a pariah. Treated as a no good worthless, lying 'low post count' troll.' So, rather than treat her with compassion and empathy/sympathy, Duers have chosen to break out the pitchforks and torches... All because she's new to DU. Blood in the water.

We were all new to DU once upon a time but boy howdy, have things changed around here. Man, I'd hate to be new at DU in this day and age.

TYY

uppityperson

(115,674 posts)
258. I'd hate to have a mother broadcasting these details with thousands on an internet forum. I do hope
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 11:54 PM
Apr 2013

those trolling DU did not pick up on her information and use it to contact or harass her daughter.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
259. So far, I don't think that's happened.
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 12:06 AM
Apr 2013
re: "pick up on her information"


Luckily, her info was deleted pretty quickly. It's also private without a friends add.

It was a momentary mistake on her part. No harm, no foul...so far. I think they'll be fine.

TYY

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
262. No,...
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 12:31 AM
Apr 2013

...but it doesn't surprise me. They've got nothing else going on in their lonely, pathetic lives so they try to spark their lifeless, vacuous souls by attempting to live vicariously through the legitimate life discussions at DU.

TYY

MADem

(135,425 posts)
295. Gee, wonder how rabid conservatives might have found such a thread?
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 05:08 PM
Apr 2013

Who could have pointed the conservatives to little old DU, to this little old thread? It's a mystery!!!



 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
308. Knock me over with a feather
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 07:21 PM
Apr 2013

I'm shocked.

This story has had so many glaring faults from the get-go that I'm shocked anyone got drawn into it, but I guess people believe anything.

a la izquierda

(11,784 posts)
265. If it is real...
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 07:46 AM
Apr 2013

And that's an IF...
Then it's quite honestly none of my damn business, just like any other instance of choice. And I would question the sanity of any mother trolling the intertubes for information on what to do with their 12 year old pregnant kid.
Call a lawyer
Call a doctor.
How friggin' complicated is that?

Meh.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
272. A 12 year old
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 10:30 AM
Apr 2013

would be considered rape of a minor child. The law is much harsher with 13 and under. This isn't statutory rape. If this were true, CPS would be involved, as any physician or school official would be required by law to report it.

That's why this is bunk.

Ruby the Liberal

(26,216 posts)
266. It wasn't just the original story
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 07:50 AM
Apr 2013

it was the responses in followup. Sorry, T - not buying that this is legit. Don't care how new someone is, the story just doesn't square.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
271. If she has a pregnant 12 year old
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 10:27 AM
Apr 2013

and isn't screaming to high heaven for charges to be filed and a thorough investigation of who the father is, she isn't fit to be a mother. Child Protective Services would be all over this like white on rice if it was actually true.

If she went to school or to a doctor, both entities would be required by law to report it because this is rape of a minor child - this isn't statutory rape by any means. 13 and under are in a completely different class of rape - one that carries extremely harsh penalties.

It has nothing to do with whether or not she's new to DU - it's that the story is ridiculous. There is some angle here, whether it's to play on people's sympathies for money or for political reasons, or hell, just to troll, but as Ruby says, if you believe this, I have a bridge in slightly used condition to sell you - I've got it priced cheap.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
286. I'm not convinced that a 15 year old would be prosecuted in a case
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 02:18 PM
Apr 2013

where the facts are the same as those which Michelle purports to be true.


http://www.age-of-consent.info/close-in-age

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
287. I don't buy it
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 02:49 PM
Apr 2013

It's too politically charged, and this is a political message board when it comes down to it. Who puts their life on display like this except to get attention?

A 12 year old can't give consent. Period. It's illegal in all 50 states.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
317. The link that you provided...
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 09:05 AM
Apr 2013

...leads to the most important and helpful information in this entire thread. It explains why the boyfriend hasn't been arrested yet. Maybe he can be charged once he turns 16 if he's still seeing the girl.

Vermont Close-In-Age Exemption

Vermont has a close-in-age exemption, also known as a "Romeo and Juliet law", to the legal age of consent. This provision allows partners who are close in age, or both under the Vermont age of consent, to engage in consensual sex without fear of prosecution under Vermont age of consent regulations.

http://www.age-of-consent.info/states/Vermont


Thanks for the link, cali.

TYY

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
275. No, but I have cheap waterbottom property 200 miles due west of San Francisco
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 11:51 AM
Apr 2013

for sale.

Maybe we could sell the bridge and property together as a cut price package deal?

You can contact my office at Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe, LLC., if you are interested.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
283. Best I can do is a beautiful view property southeast of Manhattan Beach.
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 01:58 PM
Apr 2013

Last edited Sun Apr 14, 2013, 03:01 PM - Edit history (1)

Does that work for you?

Contact my attorneys at Goyers, Lunz, and Munny, LLC, in Manhattan, ask to speak with Danny Leo, and we'll see if we can swing a deal.

BTW, it may interest you to know that I am a self made woman ~ I started out with nothing, and made a fortune selling it. My only regret is that I did not go into politics.

DiverDave

(4,874 posts)
237. NOPE, I wonder why this poster thinks they can
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 07:07 PM
Apr 2013

do this, oh wait, THEY ARE!
Seriously gullible people here.

Where are the news stories?
Where is the national enquirer?
If this person REALLY had a 12 year old preggers we would have heard about how much MONEY they want


BS

Response to TeeYiYi (Original post)

SmileyRose

(4,854 posts)
243. tell michelle to get the fuck off DU and go call the police
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 08:13 PM
Apr 2013

her kid is 12. that is rape in any state.

this "for reals" story stinks to high heaven.

 

bike man

(620 posts)
279. Of the nearly 300 responses, I think this one makes the most sense - if the story
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 01:42 PM
Apr 2013

is in fact "for reals".

Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
244. Adoption may be the only option for the child
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 08:54 PM
Apr 2013

She is not prepared to bring up a child on her own. The grandmother is not responsible for raising the grandchild. I suspect the state will step in and remove the child if the mother is unable to provide for its care, and the grandmother is not prepared to do so. The daughter may end up in the foster system herself. The boy's family may even be given custody. That means child support payments when she is 18. I don't see a good outcome for this 12 year old. But it is her choice.

All the things she doesn't know, she will learn fast. Too late to change that.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
256. Welcome to DU, LegalScholar...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 11:47 PM
Apr 2013

...Maybe you could weigh in on the legal ramifications of being the mother of a 12 year old daughter, impregnated by a 15 year old 'boyfriend' in the state of Vermont.

TYY

Drew Richards

(1,558 posts)
278. Congratulations youve made this BS th top search on google and bing
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 01:40 PM
Apr 2013

It is being used as talking points on conservitards sites everywhere... I now wonder if you are a long term paid agitator.

Point in fact this post is a construct of conservative talking points and pro-birth anti-life rhetoric that even a child of 12 could see through.

Totally disgusting...

Oh and if you didn't know that there is no such thing as consentual sex at 12...that it is always classified as rape in all 50 states then i have no use for you or your opinions.


Rev. Drew Richards

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
320. the admins used to be much quicker on the trigger on the old DU...
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:06 PM
Apr 2013

some certain people have been going out of their way to exploit the extra leeway...

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
321. I used to be a mod under DU2
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:09 PM
Apr 2013

It's neither here nor there. I'm so stunned over the Boston Marathon, I'm really unable to comment further.

fried eggs

(910 posts)
280. MichelleB, this isn't the right place to seek advice
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 01:52 PM
Apr 2013

on a matter like this. I don't know which one is, but you might get a lot more help on www.babycenter.com forums or a place with a high concentration of moms who have experienced similar situations. As it stands, you're pretty much screwed. As pro-choicers, we believe women and girls should not be forced to give birth, but they also should not be forced to terminate. The conflict comes in because your daughter is still kind of in your womb, so to speak. She is not old enough to take care of herself, and you're legally responsible for her wellbeing. It's a tricky yet interesting situation that never occured to me until after reading this OP. Even if you convinced her to abort, she might go through life holding a resentment towards you that can never be repaired. Look up the serenity prayer. It may help you to cope. You did your best and now it's time to let fate run it's course.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
306. I'm beginning to think
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 06:50 PM
Apr 2013

that carving a backward B in her cheek would be less obvious than this one.

Drew Richards

(1,558 posts)
312. OK I have one more thing to say about this TeeYiYi and take it to heart...
Sun Apr 14, 2013, 08:23 PM
Apr 2013

From what she claims and you claim she FOUND this old link from a February archived DU Post from google...

Well I just did a google search and guess what...I had to DRILL down 6 pages of returns before even finding that archived post from DU...

There were plenty of other articles and BLOG discussions of REAL life issues with dealing with a pregnant 12 year old...

If you look at the archived post from February, from the first sentence, it has nothing to do with the reality of a pregnancy but is a talking point topic for discussion over the Texas teen.

FIRST: For her to have found that post she would have to have put in PREGNANT 12 year old teen "THREATENS" for it to even come close to the top page in google...

Second: After seeing the first sentence was just a rhetorical question and not a real discussion of an existing condition why would she register and post in the middle of the archived discussion?

Thirdly: I went and took the time to check out all the other blogs and post that came before on the first 6 pages of google returns for PREGNANT 12 YEAR OLD and NO WHERE....

N O W H E R E...but here has she posted this sob story.

Clean off your bullshit meter its defective.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
319. You and your anti-gay friend owe me a new bullshit meter,
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 04:15 PM
Apr 2013

preferably a digital one to replace my old analog one. This BS story pegged the needle so hard on my BS meter, it broke clear off this time.

Why would you stick up for this person who gasps that Howard Dean's children might be "pro gay?"

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
323. I'll admit...
Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:47 PM
Apr 2013

...it was a weird comment, but people who are being cornered by a torch and pitchfork wielding mob can lash out in strange ways. I gave her a pass because this thread was never about gay. It's about a 12 year old girl, her daughter, who is pregnant by a 15 year old raging horndog. As far as I can tell, it's been going on for almost a year. It's really sickening.

The kid makes me sick to my stomach. He looks older than 16 to me, but he's not. I've seen his fb page and those of his parents. If you want to be offended, you ought to take a gander at those. I wish there was some way that I could help MichelleB but there's nothing I can do. Especially since Vermont has the Romeo/Juliet clause that allows kids under the age of 16 to fuck other kids unfettered. The only way she can file charges, as far as I can see, is if the kid is still fucking her daughter after he turns 16...

Anyway, it's a sad and creepy deal. I truly wish the best for MichelleB. She's got a long road ahead.

Oh, and I doubt that she's anti-gay. Some of her fb friends have the marriage equality avatar.

TYY





New.Rules.NJ

(1 post)
328. Update?
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 03:51 PM
Oct 2013

So, today Dr. Phil (yeah guilty pleasure) had a family on that mirrors this to a T. Only difference was the home state was WA.

Just find it strange.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
329. Welcome to DU...
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 05:50 PM
Oct 2013

Wow, this thread is so old it's got cobwebs on it. I truly never expected to see it again.

As far as an update, the daughter ended up with an abortion and a 3/yr. birth control implant in her arm. (Best thing that could have happened in this situation.) Unfortunately, last I heard she was still dating the older boy. Ah well, such is life. I wish the family well.

I don't watch tv so I didn't see the show you're referring to but I do know for a fact that this family lives in Vermont.

TYY

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»"MY 12 year old is pregna...