General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI used to really like James Bond movies.
When I was a boy, I LOVED going to James Bond movies. When "Goldfinger", "Thunderball" and "You Only Live Twice" came out I couldn't wait to go to see them in the theater. As a young pre-teen boy I loved the fights, shooting and, of course, the girls in bikinis.
Recently, however, as I've watched some of these movies, the perspective of a young boy has evolved into that ofa near58 year old husband and father, most especially in the treatment of women.
What was considered to be simply a man taking charge in the 60s, is what I consider to be rape today. Since I'm not a republican and since I am a very pro woman feminist man, I am not pro-rape. I'll leave that to the paul ryans, todd akins and little ricky santorums of the world. I prefer to respect women as I was raised to do.
Will I watch James Bond movies in the future? Yes.
Has my view of them changed forever? Yes.
I am so glad that the whole notion of the "Mad Men" era that all a man had to do to have sex with virtually any woman was to decide to do so is (hopefully) a thin of the past? Hell yes! I remember my bastard of a father living with that mentality well into the 80s and over the course of 2 marriages! Yuck!
Do I notice attractive women in bikinis at the beach or tight jeans at the stores? Yes.
Have I ever even considered being unfaithful to my wife? HELL NO!
Thanks for letting me rant.
PEACE!
shenmue
(38,503 posts)I like what you said. I guess it's just part of the character. He goes all over the world, so he doesn't have time for a girlfriend or wife. Except that one time where he got married, and then they killed her. Oh jeez...
Well, anyway, thanks.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)He was also married (though for only the purpose of his mission) in "You Only Live Twice".
Thank you
PEACE!
patrice
(47,992 posts)(and usually quite angry) martyr to "purchasing" a meal ticket, as gold-plated as possible of course.
I think that may be ending now.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)...going for the MRS degree.
I am very happy being married to a better and smarter woman than I am a person.
PEACE!
patrice
(47,992 posts)and strong, but most of all, if you really do WANT it to.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)I think that too many people don't realize that love is a CHOICE. I'm sure that both my wife and I COULD have been unfaithful more than once in the nearly 15 years that we've been married. It's not worth the pain and the distrust that results.
I also happen to be married to the most beautiful and wonderful woman on the face of the Earth (with the ladies of DU in a several thousand way tie just behind her)!
PEACE!
patrice
(47,992 posts)I really like what you are saying, because I remember early on not being able to buy into the idea that love is parceled out and packaged up in various sized allotments to this and that person, but not to that other person. It wasn't just because I was <20 years old in the '60s, when we talked about and some people experimented with "free love"; it's more that whatever the details are, love itself has to be one thing, one phenomenon.
You either know what it is or you don't, but you manifest it with each person in full measure appropriate to who that person is, not the IDEA/abstraction of the person, but who concretely the physical manifestation is and, because, one of those relationships is one in which I made a special promise that is different from my human responsibilities to others, that particular aspect of the other relationships is not like that one, though those other relationships are in all other wise unique to the specific person who chooses to share that with me.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)Many people think that love can be parceled out and that you can only give so much to anyone before you run out.
After nearly 15 years married and almost 16 together, I love my wife more every day...my "rotten kid", too!
PEACE!
msongs
(67,199 posts)MarianJack
(10,237 posts)...with fancy gadgets and a slew of "yeah, right" moments.
PEACE!
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)All he had was a radio transmitter and a Bio-metric locked pistol, a "Smart" gun.
In the movie Skyfall, James Bond is supplied a modified Walther PPK by Q, which has a biometric palmprint scanner on the pistol grip, which reads Bond's fingerprints and only allows him to use the gun. This concept originated in Licence to Kill, where Q provides Bond a bulkier rifle (disguised as a camera) with the same technology. In both movies, the feature comes to save Bond's life as an enemy henchman attempts to use his gun on him, only to be locked out by the biometric scanner.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)...thanks.
PEACE!
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)dogknob
(2,431 posts)THUNDERBALL
He always runs while others walk;
He acts while other men just talk.
He looks at this world and wants it all
So he strikes like Thunderball
He knows the meaning of success;
His needs are more so he gives less.
They call him the winner who takes all
And he strikes like Thunderball
Any woman he wants, he'll get;
He will break any heart without regret
His days of asking are all gone;
His fight goes on, and on, and on.
But he thinks that the fight is worth it all;
So he strikes like Thunderball
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)We're lucky. Our rep is Chellie Pingree!
PEACE!
wryter2000
(46,016 posts)I enjoyed the movies, too, although there was always something that gave me an icky feeling about them. It wasn't until the latest round of feminism came around in the 70's that I realized what was making me uncomfortable. I was never fooled by Playboy and hated it from the minute I opened my first copy. Too bad, because the fiction was excellent back then.
I'm a woman, if you couldn't tell.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)Thanx! Yes, the stories (and many of the cartoons, especially Gehan Wilson) were very good back then.
At the time I was in my mid to late teens, so I enjoyed other parts of the magazine, too. Not now!
PEACE!
napkinz
(17,199 posts)Great show.
But watch those episodes today and you notice something similar to what you're talking about regarding Bond's treatment of women.
The Fonz ... throughout the entire series, he's always snapping his fingers and women come running to him. The idea that a man just snaps his fingers and any woman comes running like a dog to its master. And all the times Fonz tried to teach Richie how to "make it with women." In one episode, he told Richie you just have to grab a girl and kiss her. And in the parking lot of Arnold's, Richie did just that ... grabbed some girl walking out of Arnolds, and forcibly kissed her. And Fonz then gave him the thumbs up.
I still love Happy Days. And the Fonz was a great character. But you look back at how the show depicted his treatment of women and you have to feel a bit uneasy, to say the least.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)...giving the guys lessons in how to remove bras.
In fairness, he also saved Joanie from some real turds in one episode that I vaguely remember.
PEACE!
exboyfil
(17,857 posts)I do agree with you that it was offensive as is Bond's approach to women. Of course the bad boys always did better in High School than the nerdy kids.
Neither one of my daughters would tolerate such behavior thank goodness.
napkinz
(17,199 posts)In a couple of episodes he fought racism. (One, he stood up to those who wouldn't attend Richie's party because an African American was invited. In another episode, Fonz and Al protested at a lunch counter that wouldn't serve African-Americans.)
Fonz actually came to befriend the nerds (Richie, Potsie, and Ralph) and fought against his old gang -- the Falcons -- who were still behaving like hooligans, looking to rumble.
He pushed Chachi to stay in school.
In many ways, he was cool BUT caring.
Just when it came to women ... he had this "attitude" ... as I said, snap your fingers and have them come running. He had a "filing cabinet" of women (think binders full of women, a la Romney) and pictures of all "his women" on his wall. And when he advised the guys on the show how to "pick up chicks" ... it just seemed, well, neanderthal.
Johonny
(20,685 posts)The movies tone down the bitter hatred of women Flemming's books had.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)It's too bad that Flemming's books disrespected women so badly.
PEACE!
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)MarianJack
(10,237 posts)...so, since I'm not a teabagger, I can't really discuss those films. Thank you, however.
PEACE!
Floyd_Gondolli
(1,277 posts)This should be interesting....
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)Since I know nothing about Austin Powers movies other than that they starred Mike Myers, I don't feel comfortable talking about them.
PEACE!
Floyd_Gondolli
(1,277 posts)Thanks for the clarification. I was trying to think of what connection there could be and had been drawing a blank.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)PEACE!
DerekG
(2,935 posts)They're fairly dark, escapist confections, centering around an antihero who battles monsters. Bond's contempt for women is part and parcel of his character, and should not be watered down.
Take away the connotations to "The bitch is dead," and you've stripped the gentleman killer of his intrigue.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)...I never considered the way that SEAN Connery was presented as an antihero.
I haven't yet seen any of the Craig films, so I can't really comment other than to say that he's young and has blonde hair. Thank you, though.
PEACE!
DerekG
(2,935 posts)The dark implications of the character are laid bare, and your perception of the Connery of Dr. No and From Russia With Love will be forever altered.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)I'll se if it's streaming on Netflix. A few months ago, my (then) 12 year old son went to "Skyfall" for his first date. They loved it but I also think that they may have been very excited about being on each of their first DATES!
PEACE!
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Sort of a barometer. I love Bond movies, and you can see an evolution in cultural and social mores through him.
The current Bond is rather startling in that regard.
Personally, IMO I actually like him the best, he's a thoughtful Bond, when you get past the bravado, especially in this last movie.
The scene where he weeps over the dying M is striking.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)I haven't seen any Daniel Craig Bonds yet. I'm sorry to see that M dies because I think that the great Judi Denshe (spelling?) is wonderful in the part.
PEACE!
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)quality and is in a sense Bond's conscience.
Sorry about the spoiler
But she is in all the Craig movies thru Skyfall. Plus Ralph Finnes is introduced as the new M and we even meet Miss MoneyPenny for the first time.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)I'm sure that Finnes will do a very good job, too.
PEACE!
lunatica
(53,410 posts)I find it interesting to watch them with the perspective of time having passed and how differently we thought then and now. Something obviously good happened in the intervening years to make such a difference. As a feminist I like to think I actually had some small part in making our societal views different, and, I hope better.
I think in the coming years we'll have the same reaction to our societal treatment of gays. We will actually be very uncomfortable when we watch movies where treatment of gays shows us how demeaning it was (is).
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)He wants to play the first openly gay James Bondish character. The thing about him is thaas a straight guy, I can appreciate that he is a very sexy man.
PEACE!
lunatica
(53,410 posts)MarianJack
(10,237 posts)...Roger Moore level of suave.
PEACE!
Lint Head
(15,064 posts)represent an unrealistic attitude. Todays James Bond, Daniel Craig, is ruled over by a strong woman.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)In Goldfinger, Bond definitely forces himself on Honor Blackman (Pussy Galore)!
PEACE!
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Or maybe I just have a thing for Daniel Craig, but he is extremely manly to me. There is a big difference between manly and macho. Manly men just are. Macho men are putting on an act to cover up for weakness and insecurity.
Arkana
(24,347 posts)and you can see it in how he plays Bond.
Do I realize that this is not 1965 and you can't slap a woman on the ass anymore and say "Man talk" to make her leave? Yes, because I'm not a moron or a chauvinist. Do I still enjoy the movies? Yes, because they are a national treasure. Bond is Bond, and trying to water him down would make him something other than what Ian Fleming made him.
redqueen
(115,096 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)incarnations. The current Daniel Craig version, no. He's more cynical about women than anything. Deep down this Bond is realizing also, that the years are beginning to wear long on him.
Arkana
(24,347 posts)Roger Moore's less so.
As time progressed Bond became less sexist. Brosnan's Bond, I think, was peak suave for the character.
Then there was the pseudo-gay scene in Skyfall--which was groundbreaking for Bond, I think.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Bond was worried too...
The misogyny by Connery was addressed back in the Woody Allen written version of "Casino Royale" 1967
The Retired Bond "Played By David Niven
..From Casino Royale:
007
Hardly a description of that sexual acrobat who leaves a t-trail of beautiful dead women like blown roses behind him
M:
- You mean...
007
- You know very well who I mean. That b-bounder to whom you gave my name and number.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)...but he was definitely forcing himself on some of the women in the earlier films.
PEACE!
Whisp
(24,096 posts)But I guess there's a huge enough audience for that and they do quite well.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)...now I'm starting to see the sexism in the early movies.
PEACE!
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Heaven forbid, you might view them as... you know, pure escapism.
"Large Audience" snicker
The Most Valuable Movie Franchises Of All-Time: 24/7 Wall St.:
2. James Bond ---Likely back to #1 now that Harry Potter is done.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/11/most-valuable-movie-franchises-all-time_n_1088393.html#s467431&title=2_James_Bond
Whisp
(24,096 posts)most movies and such are aimed at the male point of view and women are just things to play with and no matter how strong a female character can start off in a movie like a Bond, she always ends up subservient to the man in some way at the end of the movie. She is put in her place, over and over.
Simple formula: 1. Man meets woman. 2. They don't like each other at first 3. Flirts start anyway and we know they are going to do the jiggy jiggy push push. 4. The jiggy deed is done. 5. She is either an enemy evil spy or dead or humiliated by the end of the movie.
Next!
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)It's official. 'Skyfall' is the biggest movie in UK box office history.
Bond 23 has now taken £94,277,612 in just 40 days, beating the £94,025,632 record set by James Cameron's 'Avatar' in its entire 11 month release.
Amongst Women:
Although audience demographics were split around 60/40 male to female, that's about as close to equal as any action-thriller is ever likely to attract.
As for story-line, hate to break it to you, but there are only about 36 story lines that really exist.
I suggest you might go read some Joesph Campbell "The Heroes Journey"
The real trick is to make what ever story-line you use seem original.
Maybe you ought to go drool over Steel Magnolias or something. What part of "Action-Movie" genre don't you understand?
http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-editors/why-skyfall-success-141909030.html
zappaman
(20,605 posts)The last one was really well done.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)...my son really liked Skyfall.
PEACE!
zappaman
(20,605 posts)The one before it, QUANTUM OF SOLACE however, is awful.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)PEACE!
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)"We were fucked."
Pressed about his involvement on writing scenes for 'Solace,' Craig reveals that there was really no other option, and adds an interesting tidbit that originally, the film wasn't supposed to connect to "Casino Royale" much at all. "Me and the director (Marc Forster) were the ones allowed to do it. The rules were that you couldnt employ anyone as a writer, but the actor and director could work on scenes together," he explained. "We were stuffed. We got away with it, but only just. It was never meant to be as much of a sequel as it was, but it ended up being a sequel, starting where the last one finished."
"On 'Quantum,' we were fucked," he said plainly. "We had the bare bones of a script and then there was a writers strike and there was nothing we could do. We couldnt employ a writer to finish it. I say to myself, 'Never again,' but who knows? There was me trying to rewrite scenes and a writer I am not."
http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/daniel-craig-says-writers-strike-fucked-quantum-of-solace-he-rewrote-scenes-with-marc-forster
zappaman
(20,605 posts)But the directing was awful as well.
So, the script is not all to blame...
Floyd_Gondolli
(1,277 posts)But then again I'm not the type to politicize every aspect of our culture.
Rex
(65,616 posts)And that is from another movie even! I LOVED JB as a kid and teen. As an adult I really don't care for the movies at all and see them as overthetop power/sex games of the elite - formula. Boring.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)...the bigot part.
PEACE!
Rex
(65,616 posts)Okay how about he is a 'lowdown, good fer nothing, backstabbing, double dealing, larcenist perverted worm'? I know, doesn't fit but I like the quote anyway.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)...tell this apparently clueless old fudd what movie. I LOVE good sarcastic movie quotes!
PEACE!
Rex
(65,616 posts)respectively.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9_to_5_(film)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Metal_(film)
I haven't seen either in years...but recommend them both!
EDIT - hmm weird Wiki let me link to them in preview then double crossed me after I posted.
9to5 -9 to 5 is a 1980 American comedy film written by Patricia Resnick and Colin Higgins, starring Jane Fonda, Lily Tomlin, Dolly Parton, and Dabney Coleman. The film concerns three working women living out their fantasies of getting even with, and their successful overthrow of, the company's autocratic, "sexist, egotistical, lying, hypocritical bigot" boss.
Heavy Metal - Heavy Metal is a 1981 Canadian fantasy-animated film directed by Gerald Potterton and produced by Ivan Reitman and Leonard Mogel, who also was the publisher of Heavy Metal magazine, the basis for the film. The screenplay was written by Daniel Goldberg and Len Blum.
PEACE!
Rex
(65,616 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Could never get into them.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)...Bonanza, Maverick or Gunsmoke without horses and with bikinis and sports cars.
Of course, girls do mature before boys.
PEACE!
jambo101
(797 posts)All those bond girls seemed more than happy to get it on with James Bond, now in your later years you are seeing the Bond girls as the victims of rape????
Perhaps i'm missing your point..
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)...he certainly seems to be forcing the issue, especially when he forces Honor Blackmun into the hay about a half hour before the end of "Goldfinger" and to a lesser extent the nurse early in "Thunderball".
I'm not THAT old (yet) but seeing these scenes again recently on Netflix made me a bit uncomfortable. I was raised as a young man that if a girl and I were "necking" and she said to stop, than not only stop immediately but to break all physical contact.
Of course, I wouldn't expect a licensed to kill international spy to have the exact same outlook on the world that I do!
PEACE!
Johonny
(20,685 posts)They toned it way down for the movie, but it is still pretty bad even then.
Arkana
(24,347 posts)I mean, that scene where he forces himself on her made me uncomfortable too--but I never got "lesbian" from her.
Johonny
(20,685 posts)from wiki
In the novel, Pussy Galore is the only woman in the United States known to be running an organised crime gang. Initially trapeze artists, her group of performing catwomen, "Pussy Galore and her Abrocats," is unsuccessful, and so the women train as cat burglars instead.
Her group evolves into an all-lesbian organisation, based in Harlem, known as the Cement Mixers. (Pussy Galore is a lesbian as well.) In the novel, she has black hair, pale skin and the only violet eyes Bond says he has ever seen. She is in her thirties, her voice low and attractive. Pussy tells Bond that she became a lesbian after she was sexually abused by her uncle at the age of 12.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)earthside
(6,960 posts)Bond movies have been around long enough that they show a continuum of the popular culture from the early 1960s to today.
Take them for what they are -- popular entertainment.
For Bond movies as representative of cinematic arts, I suggest taking care not to judge the filmmakers of the '60s by today's standards ... just as reproving other creative arts such as Huckleberry Finn or Shakespeare or Homer or Picasso or Glenn Miller, etc. by 2013 mores is simplistic and superficial.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)...I alluded to that in my OP.
I'm also glad that those times are over. I always considered the smart Bond girls to be the sexiest ones, as I have always considered intelligence and strength to be the most attractive and sexiest qualities a woman could have!
PEACE!
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)The new ones may be the best of the bunch.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)From watt I've heard he is very good.
PEACE!