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trumad

(41,692 posts)
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 10:23 AM Apr 2013

Make no mistake--this North Korea crap is the fault of the Bush Administration.

I was listening to Jimmy Carter on the Daily Show the other night---and he said the NK regime has always been a bit crazy, but they always had a desire to have normal relations with the U.S. When Clinton was President, Carter went to NK representing the US. and negotiated a pretty damn good treaty.

Carter says Bush comes in, and throws the treaty in the circular file---then begins the Access of Evil bullshit.

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Make no mistake--this North Korea crap is the fault of the Bush Administration. (Original Post) trumad Apr 2013 OP
It is true, Bush exacerbated the problem, MadHound Apr 2013 #1
We can't ignore their hissyfits any longer, because they strike out at South Korea TwilightGardener Apr 2013 #3
Oh geez, stop with the hysteria. MadHound Apr 2013 #10
I've said this on DU at least ten times--the danger isn't really their current threats. TwilightGardener Apr 2013 #11
Leave Bush Alone! FSogol Apr 2013 #6
NK has never had the desire for normal relations with us B2G Apr 2013 #2
A clumsy, inept, unproven son trying to outdo the father. Aristus Apr 2013 #4
Bush was stupid, but Carter and Clinton were naive. I don't think NK was ever TwilightGardener Apr 2013 #5
I'm not sure Renew Deal Apr 2013 #7
I'm not sure I'd characterize Bush's attitude as truebluegreen Apr 2013 #8
There was also this from Reagan Renew Deal Apr 2013 #9
I'd forgotten that... truebluegreen Apr 2013 #12
 

MadHound

(34,179 posts)
1. It is true, Bush exacerbated the problem,
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 10:30 AM
Apr 2013

But the problem with NK didn't start with him, it's been going on a long, long while. The Kim family has always had a touch of the batshit crazy about them, and all of them would, from time to time, throw one of these hissy fits. It was bound to happen that sooner or later, Kim Jong Un would take up the family tradition. It is how NK gets attention, and tries to get the world to pay attention to them. This time around, we're contributing to the problem, because instead of simply ignoring the hissy fit, we're playing right into it, sending in B-2 overflights, flying in a stealth fighter patrol, sending in missile defense, etc. It also doesn't help that SK's president is calling for a preemptive strike on NK.

I agree, Bush bolloxed up the North Korean path to rejoining the world, but to say everything about the North Korean situation is his fault is disingenuous.

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
3. We can't ignore their hissyfits any longer, because they strike out at South Korea
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 10:33 AM
Apr 2013

when we do, and that will start an unintentional war (unintentional at least from our part). The time for ignoring them is over--they're dangerous. That's why we're making a bigger deal out of the exercises this year, and responding to the threats. Also putting pressure on China to finally do something--they seem to hate it when we load up our allies with military assets.

 

MadHound

(34,179 posts)
10. Oh geez, stop with the hysteria.
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 11:29 AM
Apr 2013

Let's see here,
2012
http://www.gazettenet.com/home/5464092-95/north-korea-threatens-nuclear-attack-on-us
2011
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/27/north-korea-threatens-attack-south-us_n_828749.html
2010
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/24/north-korea-nuclear-war-threat
2009
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/24/north-korea-threatens-to-_3_n_220001.html
2008
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2008/10/28/korea-norththreat.html
2007
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-08-21-nkorea-military_N.htm
2006
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/HG07Dg01.html
2005
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2005-03-25/rest-of-world/27833932_1_pyongyang-north-korea-hostile-policy
2004
http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jun/25/world/fg-koreas25
2003
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/jan-june03/korea_1-10.html
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
1993
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-03-25/news/mn-14811_1_north-korea
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I could go on and on here, but then I have to start digging into, and digitalizing paper copies, and I simply don't have the time for that. Hopefully you get the idea, North Korea throws a hissy fit as regular as rain, generally during the US-S. Korea joint exercises. This is simply another in a long line, and the fact of the matter is we're exacerbating the matter by giving it actual credence.

Meanwhile, what is actually going on inside N. Korea?
"On the streets of Pyongyang, the focus was less on preparing for war and more on beautifying the city ahead of the nation’s biggest holiday. Soldiers laid blankets of sod to liven up a city still coming out of a long, cold winter; gardeners got down on their knees to plant flowers and trees, and students marched off to school — ordinary springtime activities belying the high tensions.

Downtown, schoolchildren headed toward the towering statues of the two late leaders, Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il, dragging brooms behind them. The brooms are used to sweep the plaza where the bronze statues stand on a hilltop overlooking Pyongyang. A group of women with coats thrown over traditional dresses rushed through the spring chill after leaving a rehearsal for a dance set to take place for Kim Il Sung’s birthday celebrations.

At the base of Mansu Hill, a group of young people held a small rally to pledge their loyalty to Kim Jong Un and to sing the Kim ode “We Will Defend the Marshal With Our Lives.”
http://world.time.com/2013/04/09/talk-aside-n-korean-capital-shows-calm-not-panic/

No civil air raid drills, no military parades, life is going on like no war is coming.

This is just more hot air and rhetoric, and at the end of the month, when the US and S. Korea end their joint military games, the hot air and rhetoric will also end, at least until next spring or so.

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
11. I've said this on DU at least ten times--the danger isn't really their current threats.
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 11:41 AM
Apr 2013

Although we have to pay attention to them, at least the DoD does, because they actually do have some degree of nuclear weapon capability, and there's no way to safely assume they won't try anything. The danger is that they like to stage sneak attacks on South Korea, and South Korea is having none of it this time around. The US convinced South Korea not to retaliate in 2010, which may have emboldened NK and has certainly angered the people of SK. They are now going to retaliate, but we don't want it to escalate into a full-scale war. And KJU, needing to prove his manhood and impress the military, is almost certainly going to try something at some point after the exercises--we are trying to head this off by making public shows of our willingness to defend SK and by revealing our rules of engagement when NK decides to provoke with some minor skirmish. It's doubtful that they would actually commit national suicide, but it's likely they'll repeat their behavior from the past, and I think Obama is trying to head that off. It really is an attempt to avert war by the US.

Also, this, from a RW website, but may be relevant:

http://american.com/archive/2013/april/the-bluffing-blowhard-kim-jong-un

Aristus

(66,075 posts)
4. A clumsy, inept, unproven son trying to outdo the father.
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 10:34 AM
Apr 2013

Bush & Kim are birds of a feather.

The 'Axis Of Evil' horseshit sure created a tangle; you're right about that.

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
5. Bush was stupid, but Carter and Clinton were naive. I don't think NK was ever
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 10:35 AM
Apr 2013

going to give up its weapon program. It's the ultimate gun to the world's head.

Renew Deal

(81,801 posts)
7. I'm not sure
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 10:38 AM
Apr 2013

That was over 10 years ago at this point. NK has a different leader now too. I can understand the argument that Bush wasn't tough enough on NK. I just don't think that the "Axis of Evil" BS applies much now.

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
8. I'm not sure I'd characterize Bush's attitude as
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 10:47 AM
Apr 2013

"not tough enough." He didn't need to get tough, he needed to behave like a grownup, which he didn't.

Does anyone here remember that the closest we ever came to nuclear war with the Soviet Union (according to them) was when Raygun was running around blathering about the Evil Empire? If you convince rogue nations like NK that they will be attacked, they will pursue nuclear weapons and they may even attack first.

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