Holy crap! Bernie Sanders is recommending we start a WAR!!!

[Scuba]

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. This is a war I wouldn't mind seeing happen. Go Bernie!

[DearHeart]

2. +1000

[SunSeeker]

23. As usual CaliforniaPeggy, you said exactly what I was thinking! nt

[Plucketeer]

35. SEEING HAPPEN???

I'll be at the very front of the line to enlist. What's more, if it's gonna be open season on bankers, I'll betray my own no-gun pledge. I'm gonna buy an AK-47 and some HONKIN' MAGAZINE CLIPS!

[The Green Manalishi]

79. No point in disarming until the last teabagger does, I say:-)

[hfojvt]

109. it's a moral and political war

they would love for us to start shooting because that would be the perfect excuse to use the National Guard to squash it.

Moral and political - not guns and ammo.

not open season on "bankers" either. Whatever a banker is. The moral and political war is on greed. Not every banker, meaning person who works at a bank is any greedier than the average member of the middle class.

[lark]

114. Banking clers = innocents

Banking CEO's for the "too big to fail banks" - economic criminals.

[Plucketeer]

115. Believe it or not

sometimes folks use comedic extremes and generalizations in a moment of fervor. Sorta like a verbal political cartoon. Or do you dissect those with a knife of accuracy and definition too?

[ananda]

3. I'll join up!

Count me in!

[forestpath]

4. A war I could actually SUPPORT.

[dotymed]

100. It makes sense....

not like the "war on drugs" while our military guards opium fields in Afghanistan for the elites....

[Mika]

5. And destroy the middle class retirement investments???

If we take down the rapacious nature of Wall Street, then how will the older gen retire?
After all, their retirement investments depend on outsourcing the kids and grandkids jobs to China.

We need a new way. Dare I mention the hated S word?

[Scuba]

7. You keep positing this "retirement investments are in China jobs" theme. Can you please ...

... provide a citation for this claim. Thanks.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2649551

[Mika]

11. I revised to say Asian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/apr/27/how-invest-china


http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2011-01/14/content_11854802.htm

[Scuba]

12. Neither of these articles supports the idea that our retirement investments are reliant on ...

... Asian labor undercutting American labor. I've not seen this claim elsewhere. Can you provide a source?

[Plucketeer]

36. What's worth more???

Your retirement nest egg, or your freedoms. One ain't gonna beget the other - unless maybe you and your money go to a foreign land.

[kenfrequed]

108. This is idiotic

Even if what you say is true, which isn't completely supported by the articles you posted, this is a bad and stupid game either way.

The companies that hire foriegn workers offshore much of their income which they manage to duck taxes on which requires more borrowing from Social Security to make up for budgetary shortfalls.

The posted profits go to the big investors first as most 401K's are herded into crap investments to cover the spread for brokerage houses favored customers. So Grandpa and Grandma's investments aren't worth that much anyhow. PS, this is also why when the market crashed that the losses were not distributed equally.

The loss of income for Americans based on the exportation of jobs also amounted to a loss of taxable revenue and a loss of money flowing into social security. Continued job exportation is not going to improve this situation.

Even in those cases where some of the investments and rate of return are transferred to retirement funds for the working class and poor (because they have so much to invest) the amount is comparatively scant.

No, our system DOES need major overhaul!

[Mika]

120. I think we pretty much agree.

I know that my broad brushing of retirement schemes is extreme, but, overall, I think we agree.
We need a system that works for us, not the other way around.
Cheers.

[riverbendviewgal]

41. the stock market is due to crash in 2014

That is what I have told. Get out of stocks.

[CountAllVotes]

77. it is a b.s. game

anyone that cannot see this is IMO.

You are exactly right, get out now while you can take what you made on the fugger and forget it ... i.e. take the damn money and RUN!!!!!!!!

[rhett o rick]

85. I am glad you asked that. "Investing" in Wall Street is gambling same as in Vegas.

You arent giving a company money to help them expand, you are placing a bet on whether the stock price will go up or down. It's no different than playing roulette in Vegas. If Wall Street goes down and it takes suckers down with it, so be it.

[mountain grammy]

107. Sorry, can't agree. I would never tell someone to take their hard earned bucks

and blow it in Vegas because it's the same as Wall Street. There are many good, solid, dividend paying companies out there that are well worth investing in. We started very small several years ago. A few bucks here and there that we could have blown at the casinos, and now, we actually do have some savings that W didn't manage to wipe out. Plus, we've been incredibly healthy and lucky. There's that word luck again.

[rhett o rick]

116. Wall Street is the gambling capital for the big boys and those that think if

they hang around they might get scraps. Of course you wouldnt advise anyone to play the nickle slots in Reno. How gouache. Let's "invest" our money like the Big Boys with one of the huge banks that make me feel so secure (they are backed by your tax dollars).

Again, when you buy shares in a company traded on Wall Street, you are not investing in a company. You are buying shares from another "investor" (read gambler). He is betting the value will go down and you are betting the value will go up. With common stocks you really dont own a portion of the company. Now you might say that if it is a "good solid" company then the value will go up if the company succeeds. The problem with that thinking is that there are a whole lot of Big Boys that know how to manipulate stock prices and company exec's that know how to manipulate the stock value. So millions of hard working Americans are riding the bubbles. Hopping to get lucky and buy in low and sell out high. Problem is the Big Boys know when the bubble is going to break so most of the small investors get hurt. Not all. And maybe you've been lucky so far. But buying common stock from Wall Street isnt "investing" any more than putting your bank roll on number 22. Best of "luck" to you.

[mountain grammy]

121. We're not big boys or high rollers, just small investors with a few mutual funds, municiple bonds,

and dividend reinvestment accounts. We're far from rich, but ok.
Oh, and I don't think nickle slots are gauche, but I prefer the pennies.

[rhett o rick]

122. I just reread my post and it sounds harsher than I intended.

I didnt figure you were high rollers. The high rollers know the ropes and will be safe when the current bubble breaks. The millions of low rollers will get hurt. Just like when all bubbles burst. The high rollers know that bubbles are a good way to separate the low rollers from their hard earned money.
Best of luck to you.

[Art_from_Ark]

123. It's funny you should mention the nickel slots in Reno

I was playing the nickel poker slots in Reno one night just to pass the time and not lose too much money in the process, when I got a royal straight! I turned one nickel into $40, which paid for my room and breakfast.

And that was way more than I ever made in that other casino called the stock market.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. We've Always Been at War with EastMiddleClass

And WestMiddleClass.

Time to war back?

[tokenlib]

8. I'M IN!! But the Third Way formerly known "Democrats for the Leisure Class' are not amused!

Damn corporatists....

[DearHeart]

65. Screw em!

I'm not about to let people like that "bargain" or "bluff" our SS & Medicare away!!

[Autumn]

9. Bring on the war Bernie

I'll be right there with you. REC

[santamargarita]

10. I'm onboard, which pitchfork should I bring?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

14. They're ALL rusty from lack of use.

[santamargarita]

15. Dull too.

[Pakid]

80. Not mine I just bought a new one

Was going to use it for cleaning up my yard but using it to clean up wall street would be a lot more fun and a much better use for it

[Dragonfli]

13. Good idea, if we try it and we lose this war there will be nothing left

but guillotines and the looting of gated communities by the poverty driven and angry majority.

This war could be a civilized attempt to avoid the inevitable bloody revolt against the Lords by the impoverished. I believe history has been very clear how these things end.

I assume by his wording Bernie is advocating a bloodless war of regulation, progressive taxation and the strengthening of social programs that could reverse the trend of increasing wage disparity.

So let's try his war, it may save us from bloody revolution!

[Fla Dem]

16. Wasn't this the basis for the Occupy (Wall Street) Movement?

While it had it moments, where is it now?

[SammyWinstonJack]

22. Busy buying up student loan debt and foreclosures. Giving back to the 99% in ways that matter.

Oh, and helping out victims of Hurricane Sandy and others affected by the like.


IOW, making the most of its moments.

[Scuba]

50. Medical debt, but your point stands.

[Eleanors38]

17. Let's go. I'm ready.

[Zorra]

18. I've already enlisted. nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

19. I'd support that war!

[ReRe]

20. Brernie means a verbal War, not a physical one...

When the wingers pick a verbal war, give it right back to them only twice as bad as they gave it to you...then leave them in the proverbial dust as you walk away. Stay totally nonviolent physically.

[John2]

38. I think it

requires a physical War, as in mobilizing and running them out of Congress. Our Government needs to be reclaimed from the corporate interests. I think the middle is a myth created by corporate interests. Politicians somehow, think they have to cater to this mythical middle. You are either on the Right or Left of the spectrum. The wealthy and corporate interests play both sides against each other. Do people really call it radical to support Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. These programs serves an important public interest by uplifting the standards of living in this country. I don't see that as Far Left or radical at all, yet people fall into that propaganda perpetuated by the wealthy and corporations. They want you to believe that you are moochers and takers and the only people that has value in this country are the very wealthy. This country will be nothing without the people on the lower end of the spectrum. Those people do all the dirty work and fight this nations' wars. They are also the people, the wealthy make their living off.

[tex-wyo-dem]

71. Excellent! Wish I could recommend your post.

[ReRe]

78. As long as we have capitalism, we have the big 3...

... no pussy-footin' around about it. No big 3? No capitalism. Period. New. Paragraph.

The Corporations are the moochers in this country. Corporate lobbyists wrote in all the loopholes so the Corporations don't have to pay taxes. And then the USG gives them a refund in the form of subsidies. Billions of dollars in subsidies. And this has been going on for decades!

Yes, we need to get to work and get a veto-proof majority in the House and the Senate in 2014 and keep them there from now on. And I don't mean a DLC democratic majority. I mean and Real Democratic Party. Primary out all of the DLCers in 2014 and then finish off by electing all their replacements into the two legislative branches in 2014, the House and the Senate.

[marions ghost]

104. Good idea

...it'll never work.

DLCers aren't that easily defeated. They are corporate.

[ReRe]

118. It'll never work?

... ? ? ?



Are you afraid of the big bad wolf? Citizen's United was Corporate too. Some things are worth far more than dirty Corporate money, don't you agree?

[marions ghost]

126. I think it would be hard to

"primary out all of the DLCers."

If corporates are destroying Democracy in this country, how easy is it to fight them using those tactics?

They cheat.

If we yank things back our way, then they cheat to win it again.

Not afraid, just skeptical after so many years of abuse.

[ReRe]

128. Well, I guess it's time for a revolution then....

.. let's get it on. What are we waiting for?

[marions ghost]

130. it's time...more than time

--I think we're waiting for creative solutions that don't involve riots in the streets.

And maybe some support from people with resources?

[demwing]

102. Are you sure?

or are we discussing opinions?

[FiggyJay]

21. OK Bernie, You Talked Me Into It And..

There's nothing meaner and more dangerous than a mad old lady

[firenewt]

34. As a grumpy old man, I can attest to that.

[Brigid]

24. Torch? Check. Pitchfork? Check.

OK, I'm ready.

[rucky]

25. Not really start the war

just join the war that's already been waged on us.

[rurallib]

27. fight back, you mean?

great idea

[Cleita]

26. I'm all for it but we need a plan and some

specifics. I put this in another post but this could be one way, starting an underground economy.

I was talking to the ladies at the gym today. Since where I live is semi-rural, people have little kitchen gardens, keep chickens and/or goats and have fruit trees. Usually, farming for yourself creates a limited crop and too much of one kind of a good thing sometimes. My family's chickens lay more eggs than we can eat for instance. I have a plum tree that is very productive and produces more plums than I or any of my neighbors would ever want to eat. I thought, what if we set up a system, where what excess we grew we could take to someone's pasture once a week as a sort of farmers' market without all the licenses and permits it involves. You would "sell" your crop for some script then you could use that script to buy other food items from the other growers that you can't or don't grow. I would also suggest donating about 10% to the food bank or homeless shelter, as a way of giving back.

I know it's kind of cheating, but we can't go on like we are with the haves taking everything and leaving very little for the have nots. The ladies at the gym thought it was a pretty good idea. We also thought of a clothes swap thing as well. We all have clothes we don't wear that ordinarily we would sell at a yard sale or donate to the Good Will. We could swap clothes for others, and household items.

What if we started by-passing the usual mainstream economic suck up all profits to the wealthy way of doing business? In five or ten years, Wall Street will start seeing the big businesses they are speculating at our expense start shriveling up because people have stopped depending on them for their needs. This model could also work for services. Like if you are an accountant you could do a certain amount of work for script to buy stuff at the market.

[riverbendviewgal]

39. you make sense

Do it!

[Egalitarian Thug]

54. Good ideas. The first and simplest thing everybody should do is

withdraw as much as possible from the game. Things like you've mentioned are part of it, making sure that you have no money in or controlled by the TBTF banksters. Don't buy at any corporate chain unless you absolutely have to. Build your own networks like you're doing at the gym.

If just 1 in 5 people did this, the system couldn't sustain itself.

[BrotherIvan]

84. What I wouldn't give to be able to participate

I really hope it works for you because it's a great idea

[KamaAina]

28. Holy crap! I'm a war hawk!

I amy even enlist!

[olddots]

29. I've been ready since they shot J.F.K.

[liberalmuse]

31. No words.

I can't even imagine how it would be to be self-aware for 50 years, and to have to watch all this crap. I've only just started (14 years). Bless you.

[liberalmuse]

30. I'm in.

'cause I'm so DONE with the bullshit.

[Milliesmom]

32. Chris Matthews

Anyone watch him today, what a effing turncoat, he was calling Mr Sanders and all the people on the left that didn't want the chained CPI crazy people like those crazies on the right, I will not watch him again, he goes whichever the wind blows.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

52. Yup what a fucking asshole.

Sitting there mocking and laughing at Bernie Sanders. Chris is worth 25 million dollars what the fuck does he care?


Dana Milbank can go fuck himself too.

[DearHeart]

66. He and Dana Millbank made me want to throw a brick through the TV!!

Really pissed me off...tired of him pretending to be a DEM and then the wind blows and he changes, yet again!!!

[xtraxritical]

88. Bring back the real deal Ed Shultz, please.

[Milliesmom]

125. I like Chris Hayes, but he is no Ed Shultz.

I truly think Ed wanted out and wanted to spend time (more time ) with his wife and family, he will be on the weekends and I will watch him, for now I turn Chris Hayes on and go do my dinner dishes, (listening to Chris ) I really don't want his ratings to go down, he's a nice young man and is trying very hard.

[maddiemom]

105. And he always has. Remember when he said "We're all Neocons now"

and got a "tingle up his leg," just because Dubya put on a flight suit and got off a jet....I still hate to think about it, especially considering what a Bush basher he became when it was the popular opinion.

[D23MIURG23]

33. Someone point me to the nearest place I can enlist. n/t

[riverbendviewgal]

37. who of you is signing up.

This is getting serious.

[Carolina]

40. K&R

Go Bernie!

[LuvNewcastle]

42. Will Bernie be Colonel Sanders?

[Initech]

53. Can I be President Skroob?

[fadedrose]

43. I'm in Bernie nt

[Marie Marie]

44. Marie Marie - Reporting for duty!

[Arctic Dave]

45. Been in the trenches for a while.

Who else is going to join?

[Earth_First]

46. Here's the rub: you need to be willing to take a boot to the chest or teargas in your lungs

in order to accomplish this goal.

This isn't going to be solved by "pretty please" and the niceties of conventional protest.

Self-defense is not violent behavior when Wall Street Pinkertons are exerting Class Warfare on their behalf.

It won't be pretty. It will be painful.

Are YOU ready?

[tex-wyo-dem]

86. Yes, I'm in....

And you are absolutely right. Look at how the corporatist stuges delt with Occupy. Brutal tactics meant to discourage further participation in the protests.

But here is the real rub...if we don't rise up and do something about this now, the situation will only get worse for us in the lower-middle class (the vast majority of people). Either the situation is remedied by peaceful and civilized means now, or the whole thing is going to blow up eventually. There is a breaking point and the wealthly elite seem to want to test that limit. Of course this is all driven by greed and it will eventually be their undoing.

[dotymed]

106. IMO, the ONLY way to accomplish this goal is

to ELECT BERNIE SANDERS AS OUR COMMANDER IN CHIEF

He is the only politician with the experience and REAL desire to help the average American. Bernie is the FDR of our generation, maybe even better......

[hay rick]

47. I'm in.

All in.

[myrna minx]

48. K&R.

[Lint Head]

49. I volunteer!

[Initech]

51. Fuck yes. Let's take back what's rightfully ours!!!

Wall St. Criminals have been saying "it's mine" for far too long. It's way past time we fight back against these scumbags. If we don't stand up the corporate bullies will just keep taking it and tanking our economy in the process. Where do I sign up?

[lunasun]

55. Their side started it!!

[Jack Rabbit]

56. Why not? Wall Street is waging war on us.

Do you expect us to unilaterally disarm and surrender without a fight?

And those of you from the Rahm Emanuel branch of the Democratic Parry, don't tell us that class warfare is a bad idea, and if you're a lurking tea partier, don't tell us class warfare is un-American. This is about survival of the middle class, the country and the planet. Survival is always a very good idea and one that is very American.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

57. The Peoples' Revolutionary Insurrectionary Army of the US at your beck and call, comrade.

In reference to Nester Makhno's army.

[Win-the-fight]

58. Here is a list of criminals to get started on

Fed Sends Insider Info to Goldman Sachs, Barclays, JP Morgan, CITI, HSBC, UBS and Congress!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022650050

[LittleBlue]

59. I wish he would run for president

Many of us would gladly serve in his army.

Bernie

[dotymed]

111. I have sent him many e-mails, practically begging him to run for president...no reply.

It would be great if all of us did this. Maybe he would realize his popularity and the need we feel for an honest, very experienced politician to vote for as the POTUS.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

60. If it's springtime

could that mean a massive (1,000,000 plus) rally in D.C.? I think that may happen, but it had better be at a time when Congress is there. Which is hardly.

We have got to get mobilized and it's gotta be at the doorstep of those in power. I'm in! Enough is enough!

[nenagh]

90. That's a good idea...

And simultaneous marches in other cities...towns..

[Raksha]

61. Where and how do I enlist? n/t

[maindawg]

62. this video came from DU

Today. At 40:00 the head of the WTO admits that he is guilty of allowing the genocide in Asia. He trys to deflect, he trys to rationalize, he even describes why its ok to hold debt over 70 million poverty stricken people who are the victim of the WTO and the brutal thugs who work for them. He is a robot. I am sure.

Bernie has allies. He has Warren, he has Sherrod Brown. He is not a voice in the wind. It is as with bigots, when they are faced with reality in the light of day, these criminals have no answer.
They must be made accountable. The debt they hold over us in imaginary. They are con artists and they are criminals. They are slave holders. They are murderers. I hope that I can find a way to contribute.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

63. THe Feudal system still exists

We are the serfs

[ancianita]

64. I'm in.

[DearHeart]

67. Does anyone know if he's organizing a march, or anything??

We need him to be a LEADER, to be the voice that can rally people to action. That was part of the problem with OWS, IMO.

[Liberalynn]

68. K&R

[Lifelong Protester]

69. I'm in...

"Don't you remember I told ya,
I'm a soldier,
In the War on Poverty"


Let's go.

[FourScore]

70. Can we clone him? n/t

[malthaussen]

99. Nope. Bernie is morally opposed to cloning. n/t

[libdude]

72. I can dig it

The nice thing about getting older is you get to a point where you don't really give a shit about what people say, cause you heard all the bullshit over the years all wrapped in different packaging. Another point is you develop a short fuse for the current crop of bullshit pedelers. Before going to war with Wall St. we need to take on their bought and paid for servants in the Congress. As an old preacher once said,
" separate the sheep and the goats and beat the hell out of the goats ". I thought it was sort of funny when I first heard it.

[fadedrose]

73. Too old to fight, hate guns, but I'll cut bandages....nt

[jwirr]

74. Now that is my kind of war.

[WillyT]

75. HUGE K & R !!!

[CountAllVotes]

76. Proud to be recommendation #200

[Auntie Bush]

81. He could do it with the help of Elizabeth Warren. nt

[progressoid]

82. That also include their enablers in DC.

Some of whom are revered here and in the Democratic Party.

[sabrina 1]

83. We did start a war on Wall St. But their puppets in our Government, sadly many of them Democrats

sent out their own army to brutally attack us. They didn't succeed, but they had weapons and we didn't, they nearly killed a few of us, so we had to change our strategy.

We can win this war, there are way, way more of us than there are of them and they know it, so expect them to get very, very nasty. People nearly died already in this war.

[Cliff Arnebeck]

87. Let's build a litigation war chest

I went to D.C. for the launching of Public Campaign years ago. The only other visit I made was to Bernie Sanders' office, then in the House, to tell him he was my favorite member. At the time Bernie was speaking out about how intimidated members were by the broadcasters. Bernie has been speaking out against injustice ever since.

I have posted two threads recently advocating for civil counteraction against the war on democracy that Karl Rove launched in February 2000 by offering the U.S. Chamber a blank government check for their support for his candidate (G.W. Bush) in the Republican primary and general election. Rove promised that his candidate would deliver: "Everything business wants." Rove's old buddy Tom Donohue, took the check, provided unprecedented help to Rove, and received unprecedented favors from Rove in the form of wars, unregulated bubbles and bailouts yielding the greatest transfer of wealth in history from our middle class and our treasury to global financial elites.

See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022628229
"Stop Payment on Blank Check Karl Rove Wrote to U.S. Chamber of Commerce to buy the U.S. Presidency?"

In the another thread I exposed how I believe Karl Rove fixed the FBI's investigation of his theft of the 2004 Presidential election which enabled him to place John Roberts and Samuel Alito onto the U.S. Supreme Court to vote to gut 100 years of legal restrictions upon corporate domination of our politics. This enabled bailouts of the banks for the financial crisis they recklessly created, rather than for American homeowners, students, and borrowers those banks had systematically victimized in highly innovative forms of predatory casino capitalism.

See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022560634 "How Karl Rove fixed the FBI investigation of his theft of the 2004 Presidential election in Ohio"

Create a war chest to defeat the enemies of democracy at: http://www.ElectionProtectionAction.org.

[mercymechap]

89. I'm with Bernie, I would even move

to Vermont even though I hate cold weather, I wish we had Bernie in Texas instead of the stupid Republicans we have.

[Jasana]

91. Buying my pitchfork now! K&R

Oh if only more of our political "leaders" (official air quotes) would help us.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

92. Bernie has got to be driving the 3-D Chess Camp nuts!!!

Y'all must hope he'd just shut his mouth and go away by now. You've probably Nader'd him at this point.

Go Bernie!!!!!!!!!!

[aquart]

93. Never said I was a pacifist.

Did say I wanted to see bankers dangling from Wall Street lampposts.

[savebigbird]

94. Well, I'm confused...

...I'm pretty sure there has been a class war taking place in America for decades. It's just that the middle class hasn't defended itself yet...

[Brigid]

98. No, you're not confused.

You're right.

[midnight]

95. K&R

[Gore1FL]

96. I hate the use of "war" in this context.

it trivializes war.

[mother earth]

97. 100% with Bernie Sanders! nt

[Flipper999]

101. So, um, how does one fight this rhetorical "war" against these capitalist parasites?

We already protest all of the time in public and online, but they don't give a crap. The people who are sucking us dry know that they are harming us, they just don't care. If we can't appeal to empathy or common human decency, what can we do to them? Our politicians are already in their pockets, their lobbying funds are far greater than our own, and a good chunk of this country has been brainwashed to blame the government/secularists/scientists/unions for all of their woes.

Sound bites are nice and all, but we need a good strategy to change things. Unfortunately, I've got nothing.

[Scuba]

103. General strike?

[lilithsrevenge12]

110. Don't scare me like that...nt

[supercats]

112. Yes Bernie!!!

Great to hear your voice!!! Continue to be relentless!!! I fully support you!!!

[grahamhgreen]

113. The war has begau. The Right Wing has fired the first shots and usurped our encampment.

[penndragon69]

117. It's time to launch a full strike !!

[dinger130]

119. Finally,

a war that I would support......wholeheartedly!

[BadGimp]

124. I liked it so much I tried to give it some much needed context

hope you guys like this..

[sabrina 1]

127. Bernie, one of the few in Congress who manages to say what needs to be said and isn't afraid

to say it.

I guess being an Independent frees him from any obligation to any party's leadership.

I hope more people run as Independents from now on. The FFs were right when they warned against party politics. Getting so sick of the focus being on parties rather than on issues.

[raouldukelives]

129. K&R!! If you want to stand against something, not standing with it is a good start. nt