I'm not sure if people hate Lindsey Lohan for being an addict or

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

if they just hate her, but addiction is a disease. Why are some being so callous about it is beyond me.

Substance abuse has affected lots of people, and you probably know some who are closeted or are apparent addicts.


They are you friends, neighbors and family. How would you wish to see them treated: with kindness, civility and understanding or a throw away the key mentality?


Your thoughts?

[seabeyond]

1. we are becoming a very ugly people and internet allows us to excel at it. she had such a future a

decade ago. i took a niece to a movie of hers, and so much potential.

yes, i feel for the woman. she has chosen a tough path to take.

[snooper2]

30. Nah, we just like to mock and parody our celebrities..

They are there for our entertainment remember! Like Snookie...

Or these three---

&playnext=1&list=PL983ECE3DCB362003

[seabeyond]

31. yes. this mentality. put them out there for mocking, to make us feel so much better about ourself

thank you. excellent validation to my point.

[snooper2]

37. yeah, well, not really, feel better? Yes comedy does that...

And Chris Rock does it best

[slackmaster]

2. I have empathy her for addictions, but it's still OK to criticize her for epic bad behavior.

She does have choices about what she does, and she has made some very poor ones.

Mentally ill people can be difficult. But their illness doesn't excuse their crap, nor make anyone obligated to put up with it.

[Capt. Obvious]

3. Why do you hate America?

[cali]

4. Does anyone hate her? Let alone hate her for being an addict?

And let me throw out there that Lohan's behavior over the years has hardly been one of civility or thoughtfulness or owning up to her shit and lord knows she's far more lucky than most addicts and has many more resources.

I don't hate her, but no I'm not about join the poor Lindsay club.

[earthside]

5. I dont think it is personal.

Lohan is kind of a symbol of elite, wealthy people who don't really do much to garner the wealth that they have ... and when they get in trouble the establishment treats them differently than it would a regular 'joe'.

In my estimation, that is why Lohan elicits negative feelings, in other words, she is kind of like a celebrity version of AIG.

[hobbit709]

6. Denial is not a river in Egypt.

Until she admits that she has a problem and deals with it there's not much sympathy from me.

i.e. Like asking to take her prescriptions with her to rehab-that is not a person wanting to straighten out.

The first thing I learned 40 years ago in a Crisis Counseling Center was there is nothing you can do for a person until they are willing to take the first step.

[Drahthaardogs]

63. This. Plus she has the resources to get the BEST help in the world,

but can only seem to splurge on the best lawyers to get her out of trouble. So she has a disease, it does not give her a free pass to drive drunk. She is a complete waste of oxygen. When she makes an honest attempt to get clean, I might even light a candle for her.

[JaneyVee]

7. I have empathy for her. She is a child of divorce and has had zero privacy since a child.

Drugs are an escape from reality. I just don't want to see her end up dead.

[leftynyc]

8. I don't hate her

I don't even think about her until she's in the news, yet again. She's been to rehab 5 times already - been given chances that the average person couldn't dream of - and still she's nothing but a fuck up. How many chances would you like her to have before you'd put her junkie ass in jail?

[get the red out]

9. Considering that treatment is so poor in this country

I think that the state of addiction treatment should become the focus rather than the poor behavior of one actress due to addiction/mental health issues. It is really very difficult to get scientifically based, peer reviewed addiction treatment in this country because there is so much money invested in ancient methods that have never produced that many good results. An overhaul is needed in addiction and mental health treatment. The rich are just paying for a better facility to get their ineffective treatment administered in at this point.

[Whisp]

10. I don't know much about her at all

but the fact that she gets so piled on for having a disease makes me wonder about the thick hate out there for someone who most likely has zip, zero, nada to do with your life. It's just plain meanness.

[cali]

19. that's not why she gets piled on. She gets piled on for hit and run accidents

for fighting, for stealing and most of all for not taking advantage of the numerous opportunities she's had to work on her problems, addiction included. She's had access to the best rehab places and therapists.

And I have seen no hate for her expressed here.

[Blue_Tires]

38. +1000

Nevermind the fact that her celebrity and wealth have gotten her SO much slack and leeway from judges...No 'regular' repeat offender would ever escape from serious sentencing this many times...

[bhikkhu]

11. People hate most what they struggle against in themselves

...so they see in Lohan reckless addiction, irresponsibility, waste of every talent and ability, throwing away success, etc.

Not that its healthy to hate people at all, and it is fairly sociopathic to hate people you've never met, regardless of how common and acceptable that is. One way or another, it comes back to self-hatred, which is destructive.

I'm afraid I don't follow the entertainment news enough to form a personal opinion about her. But having been around "a few years", hopefully one learns that you can't judge a person by a few years of their life. I had a questionable decade myself.

[chervilant]

27. A Buddhist saying

comes to mind:

Hating (resenting, demeaning, etc...) Lindsey Lohan (another person) is like taking poison and waiting for her (the other person) to die.

The internet community is a window view of the collective psyche of our narcissistic, puerile species. I used to think bullies were a minority; now, I'm not so sure...

(I've paraphrased herein above, as you can see...)

[cali]

42. yes, but where on DU has there been hate expressed for her?

Misapplying a nugget of wisdom doesn't make the canard about people hating Lohan, true.

[chervilant]

45. Call it what you will.

ANY negative feelings toward her only hurt the one who chooses to harbor such feelings.

[cali]

46. so criticism is "negative feelings"?

No, criticism is not necessarily "negative feelings". And don't conflate it with hate. And try not to speak in sanctimonious, bland platitudes that you believe are part of Buddhism.

[chervilant]

59. Rude, derisive, and condescending...

What's the matter, cali? Not happy unless you can hit the trifecta of insults? Are you an adult? I just cannot understand why you are consistently corrosive and argumentative.

I found the observation I posted herein above on a Buddhist website. I'm sure whoever put it there was just HOPING you'd come along and inform all of us that it's a "bland," "sanctimonious" "platitude" that ISN'T a part of Buddhism.

[cali]

61. You may not like this but

I'm a buddhist. Have been for many years. Karme Choling and Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche.

He would have shocked you.

[chervilant]

65. Bwahahahahaha!!!

That's rich, cali! You just keep telling yourself that.

(phew! Loves me a good belly laugh!)

[emulatorloo]

69. What a horribly Judgemental thing to say n/t

[cali]

73. what? gone to the dark side? filled with negativity?

sorry, it's true. I've been a practicing Buddhist for 20 years. Taken Refuge and Bodhisattva vows.

you may not know as much about Buddhism as you think you do.

[chervilant]

75. Nor you, cali ... n/t

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

12. It's her privilege

It's the fact she avoids jail time when others would have gotten the book tossed at them long ago. For dangerous acts, mind you, not just possession.

This is also someone who tweets the President that some people on the Forbes 500 need a tax break. Privilege all around.

It's not hate....I don't hate her....but people hate the Koch Brothers for similar spoiled attitudes but actively destroying this nation while doing it....is that wrong as well?

[joeybee12]

13. I don't hate her...I feel sorry for her, but she's frustrating...

Her parents I hate, and the media's attention on her, everty stupid thing she does, I'm sure contributes to her cry for attention.

[TreasonousBastard]

14. I'm not sure why anyone would care...

enough to hate her.

I've never met her, don't expect to ever meet her, and the closest I'll ever get to her is seeing some of her movies. I have people much closer to me with similar problems that I don't hate, but have to deal with.

So, since her problems don't affect anyone outside of her own circle, why waste time hating, loving, or anything else her?

Oh! I get it now-- she's rich and famous and doesn't meet our ideal of what the rich and famous should be. It's not really hate after all-- it's a darker side of envy.

(Ask me about any of the Kardashians, though...)

[justabob]

15. she has had every opportunity to get out from under that disease

She has the means to get any help she needs or wants, but she either can't or won't use them. In my experience with addicts, at some point, if they refuse help, you have to cut them loose or suffer the consequences.... no matter how you feel about them.

[Nye Bevan]

16. I think people resent how she is treated versus how poor and minority addicts are treated.

She gets second chance after second chance after second chance, while a poor minority single mother would be sent directly to prison.

[monmouth3]

21. We have a winner!!!!

[hrmjustin]

26. +1

[blueamy66]

39. Exactly. That is how I feel.

I just don't understand why she isn't in jail and/or prison by now.

It isn't fair....but I guess life just isn't fair.

[MrScorpio]

79. Damn Skippy! nt

[Lurks Often]

17. I pity her

given opportunities most of us will never get and she has wasted them. Of course her idiot parents deserve quite a bit of the blame and her mother needs to stop being her friend and drinking buddy and start acting like a parent.

I'm not sure I agree that she has avoided jail, I think a combination of a good lawyer, jail over crowding and the problems of having a celebrity in jail (on relatively minor charges) have created a set of circumstances that made putting her in jail a less then optimum choice.

[naturallyselected]

18. I don't hate her, I hate seeing talent wasted

I loved her in Robert Altman's swan song, A Prairie Home Companion. I was hoping the accomplishment of working in a movie with Meryl Streep, Lily Tomlin, and Kevin Kline, and, in my opinion, doing better than holding her own in such company, would help her see what kind of future she could have.

But no - she has done nothing since to fulfill that promise. I hate to think, after showing such promise as more than just a has-been child actress, it will be the last truly good movie she will ever make. I'd like to think she can find her way, as Robert Downey Jr seems to have done, because there is always a need for talent in a talent-starved industry.

On strictly human terms, I hope she finds peace. Not many child actors grow into well-adjusted, happy, adults. It's frustrating to see the wasted talent and the seeming inability to live responsibly. I don't give her a pass because of her past, but she follows in the footsteps of other child stars. I wish, for her sake, she would become the exception to the rule. I don't hate her - it's just sad.

[GoCubsGo]

49. Yep.

I don't hate her. I just hate how she has wasted a good thing, because she WAS good. Damn good. It's sad, and the people who let her get to this point are the ones that deserve most of the derision--especially her rotten parents.

[Baitball Blogger]

20. She's getting the same kind of criticism that anyone would that had as many

opportunities as she has to face her demons.

It's also a job hazard when you're in the public eye. You're under a microscope. It goes with the job.

Especially when young girls are watching her behavior she should expect to face criticism.

[tridim]

56. I'm kind of glad Robert Downey Jr. got several second chances.

IMO all drug ABUSERS deserve criticism, but no drug addict should be thrown into prison because of their addiction. Lohan needs help, and tough love. Unfortunately I doubt she's getting either.

I tend to admire people who manage to avoid abusing drugs in the first place.

[Arkansas Granny]

22. IMO, the media provides an object for hatred and ridicule when they begin to pile on a

celebrity such as Lindsey Lohan, Britney Spears, or a host of other people over the years. They have been subject to public scrutiny for most of their lives with no privacy whatsoever and every transgression has been announced to the world, many times with photos and/or video. I think many people just like to find fault and look down on the "rich and famous". It makes them feel better about themselves.

[cali]

24. with fame and fortune comes media scrutiny.

in the main, I'd say that the good outweighs the bad. And there are plenty of celebrities that handle it all with some amount of grace.

I don't hate these people but I surely don't lose a wink of sleep over their problems.

[Johonny]

58. one could argue she uses the negative news to push her product

She is a franchise unto herself. When there isn't any good left, celebrities also use the "bad" or "crazy" image to keep selling to make money to feed their addiction. There are untold amounts of producers and agents willing to sell her down the river to make all the $$ that comes with bad press. Like Charlie Sheen, she is now known for being bad. It is almost a career killer if she managed to be the "clean" girl again. The problem is this negative press storm generally ends when the person is dead. Its a death spiral, but a money machine while it lasts.

The difference between her and every other junkie in LA, is her junkie sells TV ads, movie posters, websites etc...

[Orrex]

23. It's terrible that she enjoys privilege, wealth and luxury that few can imagine

I just know that she'd be able to pull her shit together if only she were given ten or eleven more 2nd chances.

Plenty of non-celebrities with much worse lives are given much tougher sentences with much less leniency.

[EOTE]

25. Because other people are typically held responsible for their behavior?

Most people don't get to drive drunk and do dozens of other illegal things and not have to pay for it in one way or another. Most people don't complain after getting arrested for the 30th time or so that other people in her situation wouldn't go to jail. She's a pretty awful person who hasn't had to take responsibility for pretty much anything her entire life. That's why people tend to hate her.

[Zorra]

28. Maybe people don't like her because she's a republican.

Republicans...what's to like?

[Katashi_itto]

47. I think she makes a fine, upstanding Republican role-model. I wish more Republican women would

follow in her footsteps.

[LeftInTX]

29. The tabloid entertainment press doesn't help

It's one thing when what she does is reported as news and commented for what it is. It is a serious issue. It involves both Lindsey and our society, as others have commented.

However, her troubles are often used by tabloid entertainment to get ratings.

The shows take the story and exploit it by showing it over and over. Personally, I find Lindsey a bit abrasive, so if it is shown over and over, it creates a visceral effect in the audience.

[OldDem2012]

32. Here's what I dislike the most....

....people charged with the same crimes and without her financial resources are not given second, third, and fourth chances.

This is a classic example of people with money not being treated the same as people without money....and it pisses me off.

[AngryAmish]

33. It is perfectly understandable under AA's theory of mind

I've cobbled this together over the years and added a vigorous dash of confirmation bias but here goes...

It is in our nature to love leaders. We are social animals - we need to be lead.

However, when our leaders fail us we are extremely hard on them. THis makes sense because back when we lived in trees a bad leader could get everyone eaten by hyenas.

(yes seabeyond, I realize I'm baiting you)

Celebrity culture and politics are really the same thing. We are choosing or bonding with leaders. We idealize them. Then the celebrities/politicians fail us. We either accept it or we really, really hate them. Lohan has failed us and the revenge is merciless. She has lost the Mandate of Heaven and must be expelled.

Along those same lines look at Anthony Weiner. I think he has no place in public life. Others disagree. But those who hate him really, really hate him. It is very closely correlated with how people feel about Lindsay Lohan.

(for the record I don't think she belongs in jail. I forgive her, not Weiner. Such is the mystery of our brains))

[Marr]

34. I don't think the addiction figures into the hatred. People see a young, attractive person who

has money (or had money, at least), repeatedly getting away with things that they themselves could never get away with, and they understandably feel resentful.

I don't hate Lindsey Lohan. I don't know her. She seems to have an addiction problem and I wish her well in sorting it out, but it isn't uncommon, and she has more options than most addicts.

[fadedrose]

35. She was a real trooper on Letterman last night

She gained a lot of respect - Paul was the first to praise her, and David followed.

Who knows what pressures these people face, and if they have money and contacts for drugs, anything can happen. And the pressure is real.

I can remember Lois Lane from Superman, can't think of her name. She went from stardom to a woman living in povery. And her crime was aging - without some mental support system to make the transition.

[hughee99]

36. I think it bothers people when they see someone with a great opportunity

flush it completely down the toilet. I think it bothers people when a person's general idiocy is reported as "news" just because they're famous. I think it bothers people when someone is given chance after chance to get their head out of their ass and yet still continually mess it up.

[Initech]

40. People hate Lindsay Lohan because of the constant coverage she gets from trash tabloid media.

I don't think it has anything to do with substance abuse. Sure that is a big problem but the media - I'm looking at you TMZ, amplifies trash news like this into glorifying problems when they shouldn't.

[ellie]

41. She is an entitled brat, drug abuse or not

She is unable to take responsibility for her actions. For example:

After stealing a car and taking a joyride, and subsequently "kidnapping" the people who were inside the car at the time, she said "The black kid was driving."

She stole a necklace from an LA jewelry store and was sentenced to 120 days in jail plus community service.

She has at least two DUIs, and doesn't appear to have learned anything from her brushes with the law.

She was accused of trashing Liz Taylor's Cleopatra trailer, about $1000 in property was missing. Of course there was no proof. She just keeps skating away.

Other great excuses from this waste of space include:
-I lost my passport! After missing her flight and subsequent court appearance.
-These are not my pants! After drugs were found on her possession.
-It's the paparazzi's fault!

So yes, i cannot stand her. If you or me were accused of the crimes she has been convicted of, we would be in jail. No questions asked. So I will not cry or have any compassion for this drug-addled millionaire.

[maryellen99]

64. and there are also rumors on some of the celebrity sites

That she is an escort as well.

[themaguffin]

43. Oh great ANOTHER straw man thread on her.

I'll say essentially what I said in the other thread - People disliking her BEHAVIOR is not the same as attacking her addictions.

I can't believe that even has to be noted or clarified.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

60. I've read otherwise. That's why I raised the question.

[Fla Dem]

44. I don't hate Lindsay Lohan, I feel extremely sad that a young woman with huge talent

has such huge problems.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

48. I don't hate Lindsay Lohan or any other celebrity--they're not worth it

I just ignore them and think that the public airing of their escapades is a distraction.

[Warren DeMontague]

50. What did she do now?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

62. Something about being on the David Letterman show where Letterman

skewered her or some such thing.

There seemed to be a lot of animosity towards her. Frankly I have never seen one of her movies.


I feel empathy for anybody that faces addictions: rich or poor.

On edit: Link >> http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2646354

[Warren DeMontague]

68. I think the last time I watched Letterman was 1991 or so.

I agree with what you've said.

[Rex]

51. I only remember her name when people bring her up.

Like now.

[Apophis]

52. She contributes nothing positive to society.

Yet she's always in the news.

[kwassa]

54. Most news is not about positivity.

[graham4anything]

53. As said on the other thread, David Letterman should be fired for his abuse of Lindsay

If Lindsay were the rich girl people here are distorting her to be, she would always travel in a limo and not herself drive.
She tries to be a normal person and gets hit for it.
Her entire family has used her and used her fame and money.

People seem to be mistaking her for Paris Hilton.

[TeamPooka]

55. people resent the squandering of talent and opportunity and that she gets preferential

treatment in matters of law.

[catbyte]

57. The only thing I fault her for is being a Romney supporter.

[SoCalDem]

66. People have been TOO kind to Linsday...to her own detriment.

People forget that her ORIGINAL "offense" was a traffic citation/alcohol-related incident that she IGNORED/POSTPONED and when she finally went to court, she REFUSED to obey the rules of her sentence.

She is her own worst enemy.

Had she been Lakeisha Jones, she would be just about finishing her sentence..

LL had money, was well-respected as a young actress and she decided to piss away her own future..

No hate here..just sadness that she cannot get her act together..and irritation that we have to keep hearing about her latest escapades..

Go away Lindsay..get your act together..

[BlueStater]

67. She hasn't done anything remotely notable since "Mean Girls".

Which came out NINE years ago now.

I don't understand how she has managed to stay relevant in the media for all these years. Back in 2004, she was an up-and-coming actress with a lot of promise. Nowadays, her reasons for being famous are no better than Kim Kardashian's. And that sickens me.

[olddots]

70. we spit people out because we are cruel animals

What has she done lately ? what the fuck have we done lately ?

I take personally all the attacks because I have 2 daughters that live in her world of cruelty .......


THE EVIL WE SEE IN OTHERS WE DIMLY PERCEIVE IN OURSELVES .

[JVS]

71. While addiction is a serious problem, it might have been avoided had she not been such a wastrel.

[tabasco]

72. I hate her stupidity

which she constantly demonstrates.

[Elvin Ives]

74. driving while drunk was not mentioned once in your OP

Is it because mentioning the fact that she put others' lives in danger would have weakened your argument?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

77. I'm not sure that I had an argument more than a question.

Since there seems to be a lot of animosity for her I was just wondering if there was animosity for most substance abusers.

If putting people's lives in danger is why you don't like her then I can understand that, but it didn't seem to be the general answer.

[GodlessBiker]

76. She's a nice person and deserves every hour of rehab in the Hamptons this summer.

[LTX]

78. Who's Lindsey Lohan?

[MrScorpio]

80. If she keeps on going like this, she's going to end up just like Candy Sycamore nt