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Purveyor

(29,876 posts)
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:46 AM Apr 2013

Teen: I Was Raped by 4 200-Pound Women

(NEWSER) – Police say four women weighing about 200 pounds each raped a Toronto man last month after offering him a lift home, the Toronto Star reports.

Word is he met them at a downtown nightclub and accepted a ride—but they drove him only a few blocks in an SUV before turning into a parking lot and assaulting him. Police describe the women as being about 5'4" and in their early thirties; one had a British accent and a tattoo of wings on the back of her neck, the National Post reports.

Sexual assaults by females on males are not unheard of in Toronto, a detective tells the Post.

more...

http://www.newser.com/story/165879/teen-i-was-raped-by-4-200-pound-women.html?utm_source=syn&utm_medium=goognews&utm_campaign=chan3_feed

266 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Teen: I Was Raped by 4 200-Pound Women (Original Post) Purveyor Apr 2013 OP
I don't quite get the 200 lb part but it's still an unusual story. I know it is.. BlueJazz Apr 2013 #1
Just keep on stimulating that prostate. TheMadMonk Apr 2013 #23
TMI trumad Apr 2013 #75
ding ding ding thread winner ... !!!!! :D nt littlewolf Apr 2013 #85
I rarely actually alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #99
Perhaps it made it easier to overpower him? BainsBane Apr 2013 #28
He just wanted to point out that since they were fat Warpy Apr 2013 #42
"it's possible as long as they didn't allow him to climax" TheDebbieDee Apr 2013 #88
Or you know, it's a description of his attackers tammywammy Apr 2013 #97
At that age reaching climax without "deflating" is the norm FreakinDJ Apr 2013 #255
They could have spiked his drink with viagra Turborama Apr 2013 #64
Or the women could have used *ahem* adapter kits, available in almost any reputable sex shop. TheMightyFavog Apr 2013 #173
Probably wickerwoman Apr 2013 #71
Oh..I see...didn't think of that. Boy..sometimes the world gets a little stranger .. BlueJazz Apr 2013 #216
do reporters tell the weight of male rapists in their stories? sheesh. eom ellenfl Apr 2013 #188
Of course they do, if they're asking for the public's help in tracking them down. polly7 Apr 2013 #192
but that headline doesn't say she was raped by a 200 lb man she met online. ellenfl Apr 2013 #200
No, it sure doesn't. polly7 Apr 2013 #202
but not in the headline . . . that was my point. eom ellenfl Apr 2013 #250
It is provided as an answer to the question of his credibility lumberjack_jeff Apr 2013 #209
Who specifically is blaming the male victim in this instance? LanternWaste Apr 2013 #246
The question was asked why the women's weight was relevant. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2013 #262
I think the idea -- which still could be silly -- is that they were large/strong DirkGently Apr 2013 #249
Yep..that's what was going on in my mind also. "Mrs Smith was raped by a 214 pound male" BlueJazz Apr 2013 #215
It's a germane answer to the question "why didn't you just leave?" n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2013 #194
That is why "all men are potential.rapists" stance was so wrong. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #2
What is wrong is your understanding. nt ZombieHorde Apr 2013 #7
How so? nt darkangel218 Apr 2013 #15
If a man is changing a tire out in the middle of nowhere, ZombieHorde Apr 2013 #103
Still doesnt validate that All men are potential rapists. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #106
It's not about the men in our lives that we love and charish. ZombieHorde Apr 2013 #122
I agree with you. "Rape can and is committed by both sexes." In_The_Wind Apr 2013 #13
If "all humans are potential rapists but Warren Stupidity Apr 2013 #17
Yes rape can be committed by both. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #25
Something very important happened to me reading your reply Mira Apr 2013 #27
Thank you, Mira. Thank you so much. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #33
I can understand what you are saying well. Mira Apr 2013 #38
I sent mine to self-defense training. They really appreciated it. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #54
Me too. Thank you. LiberalLoner Apr 2013 #70
Just because most rapes are committed by men, it doesnt mean ALL men are potential rapists. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #30
Dear darkangel218, I believe that you are not a rapist so... Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #36
Lmao!! you have trust issues then , if you are afraid of and want to avoid the 8 billion people darkangel218 Apr 2013 #39
Why would she trust you? Fawke Em Apr 2013 #46
Living in fear is a choice. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #49
Um, I kicked my first husband's ass. Fawke Em Apr 2013 #52
The sharp defense skill that I posed to you in my questions that you've not answered Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #57
BTW, the husband who tells me I have trust issues Fawke Em Apr 2013 #50
I'm so sorry to hear these things happened to you n/t deutsey Apr 2013 #182
Where have I once stated most men would consider rape... Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #47
There is no point in dragging this on and on. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #55
I hope you realize... someday Fawke Em Apr 2013 #62
I thought dark angel was female BainsBane Apr 2013 #79
Yea, so did I. SammyWinstonJack Apr 2013 #83
Dragging this on and on? chervilant Apr 2013 #86
You confuse the word potential with probable or future. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #40
Someone in an elevator could potentially be robbed or even killed by a female. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #43
Not all your life. Fawke Em Apr 2013 #53
Are young men taught to not get in an elevator when the only occupent of that elevator is a female? Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #56
According to DoJ, 99% of all rapists in the US are men. KitSileya Apr 2013 #68
Yes, actually, to an outside observer, we are Scootaloo Apr 2013 #58
Thank you for this post. n/t TDale313 Apr 2013 #60
Potential can be there for both sexes, for pretty much anything. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #61
Only if you ignore Crime statistics BainsBane Apr 2013 #73
less than 1% of rapists are women BainsBane Apr 2013 #72
Agree. It's almost like saying, "All black people are potential muggers." TimberValley Apr 2013 #82
Thank you for this post. TDale313 Apr 2013 #41
That's a pretty grim world you live in. Maybe this will make you feel a bit better: Comrade Grumpy Apr 2013 #51
What I find amazing about some of the replies to your post justiceischeap Apr 2013 #76
Only 1 in 4? It has to be higher than that. I personally have been physically grabbed twice (both Nay Apr 2013 #138
Good post! Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #117
good post. been there, thought that. eom ellenfl Apr 2013 #191
Plus one million. LanternWaste Apr 2013 #248
Substitute woman/female in your post with black/hispanic and gasp with outrage yet the Purveyor Apr 2013 #257
How about you do it using my questions and I'll answer. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #258
No, that is the truth, and it is not a wrong stance. liberalmuse Apr 2013 #44
I disagree with you. Its a sexist remark and not true. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #59
I disagree with you. You are sexist and don't believe in truth. Fawke Em Apr 2013 #63
I am sexist?? how, by pointing out a sexist stance?? darkangel218 Apr 2013 #65
You need to understand something Warpy Apr 2013 #45
There will always be criminals. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #67
BECAUSE THERE IS NO WAY FOR A WOMAN, OR A MAN, TO 'SEE' WHICH STRANGER IS Nay Apr 2013 #150
You know just as well as me that what statement does is generalizing darkangel218 Apr 2013 #159
You aren't this stupid. jeff47 Apr 2013 #184
Perheps you should learn how to hold a conversation without insulting darkangel218 Apr 2013 #198
Why? jeff47 Apr 2013 #228
You obviously have issues, i feel bad for you. So much anger cant be good. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #234
+1000 smirkymonkey Apr 2013 #238
Appropriate precautions are only insulting to those who fear appropriate precautions... LanternWaste Apr 2013 #247
It is the Man's Responsibility? Macoy51 Apr 2013 #80
It's men's responsibility to change men jeff47 Apr 2013 #183
Only You Can Fix Yourself Macoy51 Apr 2013 #201
+10000000 darkangel218 Apr 2013 #204
people enable rape in all kinds of ways BainsBane Apr 2013 #217
Still can't comprehend the point then? jeff47 Apr 2013 #229
if You Lost the Argument, Throw Insults Macoy51 Apr 2013 #264
That would be "white-knighting". redgreenandblue Apr 2013 #223
No, that would be you deflecting jeff47 Apr 2013 #230
Your words were "men should change men". redgreenandblue Apr 2013 #263
nice hijack salin Apr 2013 #78
Its a discussion board ffs. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #89
I used to think that way when younger. GaYellowDawg Apr 2013 #90
I undersand what youre saying. However, teaching young girls/women darkangel218 Apr 2013 #92
Oh, I don't think so. GaYellowDawg Apr 2013 #95
I completely disagree with you. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #100
thank you! renate Apr 2013 #114
To be honest GaYellowDawg Apr 2013 #259
That is a very good explanation of "All (anything) does (anything)". There is nothing wrong with bike man Apr 2013 #210
Thank you for getting it! smirkymonkey Apr 2013 #239
I didn't get it for a long time. GaYellowDawg Apr 2013 #260
It's not a stance. It's a distortion of an explanation. redqueen Apr 2013 #108
How precisely does the one deny the other? LanternWaste Apr 2013 #245
i have a weird feeling about this story...not one, but *four* 200-pound women? who raped him HiPointDem Apr 2013 #3
Nope. Four 200 pound women , once each. Even hmmmmier. pkdu Apr 2013 #5
yes. fixed. brain slower than fingers. HiPointDem Apr 2013 #11
I am going to come clean and admit I first thought the title read dsc Apr 2013 #4
WWII. That thought made you "come clean".... You may need help! pkdu Apr 2013 #6
So did I. Without the pun, lol. nt LWolf Apr 2013 #87
In this thread: Double standards... Comrade_McKenzie Apr 2013 #8
Really? A Little Weird Apr 2013 #35
bullshit. I expressed doubt about the woman in NE cali Apr 2013 #84
This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Apr 2013 #94
Strange how the women were all about the same weight and height. nt ZombieHorde Apr 2013 #9
I find this very hard to believe. MrSlayer Apr 2013 #10
So you're saying temporary311 Apr 2013 #12
Haha! Nice. MrSlayer Apr 2013 #16
Actually, yeah, it can still happen. temporary311 Apr 2013 #20
Some systems work regardless of circumstances. KitSileya Apr 2013 #69
no FightForMichigan Apr 2013 #226
The article itself says 'sexually assaulted', so it could have been anything. polly7 Apr 2013 #14
You're right. MrSlayer Apr 2013 #22
It is in fact highly probable that direct genital stimulation can cause an erection. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #19
Not for me. MrSlayer Apr 2013 #34
Use your imagination. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #21
Yeah, I kind of went off half cocked on that one. MrSlayer Apr 2013 #31
He doesn't have to function for it to be rape though... octothorpe Apr 2013 #29
Yep, I was wrong on that. MrSlayer Apr 2013 #32
again, you assume a certain sex act is the only way rape can occur. You lack imagination. CBGLuthier Apr 2013 #81
sex doesn't necessarily require an erect penis datasuspect Apr 2013 #91
Yes, interesting. Not that it is impossible, but it does seem kind of fishy. smirkymonkey Apr 2013 #240
I hope they're caught and prosecuted. Horrible thing for this young man. nt. polly7 Apr 2013 #18
My heart goes out to this young man. TDale313 Apr 2013 #24
I hope they're caught as well. liberalmuse Apr 2013 #48
agreed. salin Apr 2013 #77
Totally agree. jessie04 Apr 2013 #243
I must admit to doing a triple take BainsBane Apr 2013 #26
"Sexual assaults by females on males are not unheard of in Toronto, a detective tells the Post." JI7 Apr 2013 #37
Post removed Post removed Apr 2013 #66
....... cali Apr 2013 #74
But what? EOTE Apr 2013 #109
Would there be so much scrutiny here had a teenage girl been raped by four guys... Poll_Blind Apr 2013 #93
No. GaYellowDawg Apr 2013 #96
Thanks for your posts on this thread. nt redqueen Apr 2013 #112
No problem. GaYellowDawg Apr 2013 #261
This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Apr 2013 #98
All wearing theKed Apr 2013 #221
This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Apr 2013 #232
Is it outside the realm of possibility? theKed Apr 2013 #237
This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Apr 2013 #252
More men are raped in Amerca then women. Men almost never report on female rapists. Exultant Democracy Apr 2013 #101
"More men are raped in Amerca then women" LancetChick Apr 2013 #102
I have seen an article that claimed man-on-man prison rape happened more frequently ZombieHorde Apr 2013 #105
Who is the perpetrator of all these rapes against men? boston bean Apr 2013 #104
men rape men too datasuspect Apr 2013 #129
no kidding, that is why I asked the question. boston bean Apr 2013 #132
when you consider that institutionalized rape datasuspect Apr 2013 #134
you are preaching to the choir, boston bean Apr 2013 #136
i honestly don't care datasuspect Apr 2013 #140
That's nice.. boston bean Apr 2013 #145
yeah datasuspect Apr 2013 #156
No, you are not the choir at all. You are singing something else. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2013 #187
No, you are making things up Jeff, that I never said. boston bean Apr 2013 #190
Then what did you mean by "who is perpetrating all those rapes?" lumberjack_jeff Apr 2013 #193
Uh, he was saying it was women. boston bean Apr 2013 #195
Yet, you refuse to answer my question. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2013 #196
There was no question, just a bunch of bullshit accusations. boston bean Apr 2013 #197
No. "?" is known as a question mark. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2013 #199
No it is not. boston bean Apr 2013 #205
Then you misunderstood what he wrote lumberjack_jeff Apr 2013 #207
No, you made up stupid crap. boston bean Apr 2013 #208
What you say can't be reconciled with other things you say. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2013 #212
in your inflated ego. boston bean Apr 2013 #222
Crickets? lumberjack_jeff Apr 2013 #203
I see this a lot. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2013 #181
Of course it is. boston bean Apr 2013 #233
You'll need to post a link for this preposterous claim. Sheldon Cooper Apr 2013 #107
Does prison rape not count or something? EOTE Apr 2013 #111
It's because of the way he said it. redqueen Apr 2013 #113
Why is it disingenuous to point out that men are being raped in far larger numbers than most people EOTE Apr 2013 #115
That's not what he said. boston bean Apr 2013 #119
Here's what he said: EOTE Apr 2013 #120
He was responding to the claim boston bean Apr 2013 #123
But he was suggesting that not including them would be the default. EOTE Apr 2013 #125
He doesn't believe the bullshit claim boston bean Apr 2013 #128
My numbers? Not very good at following a conversation, are you? EOTE Apr 2013 #130
He was including them for you, and you took offense. boston bean Apr 2013 #133
I took offense at the suggestion that prison rape shouldn't be included by default. EOTE Apr 2013 #146
Well, I would like to suggest that boston bean Apr 2013 #147
He DIDN'T KNOW that it should be included. EOTE Apr 2013 #152
Because the poster didn't include it by saying that boston bean Apr 2013 #155
Christ, I have no intention of defending things I haven't said. You should really get off that. EOTE Apr 2013 #164
I'm not asking you to explain anything. boston bean Apr 2013 #166
Read my post 167. EOTE Apr 2013 #170
You said "More men are raped in America then women" Marrah_G Apr 2013 #137
No, I did not. EOTE Apr 2013 #144
I'm sorry, I mixed you up with the one who started this sub-thread Marrah_G Apr 2013 #160
No problem. nt EOTE Apr 2013 #171
Nope that is exacly what I was saying. Exultant Democracy Apr 2013 #124
It's not. redqueen Apr 2013 #131
I don't know if that's true or not. EOTE Apr 2013 #141
There is indeed less recourse in prison. redqueen Apr 2013 #158
I have less issue with broadbrushing now. EOTE Apr 2013 #175
I doubt if you're really curious, but I'll explain anyway: Sheldon Cooper Apr 2013 #116
I doubt you're much one for thinking, but I'll explain anyway: EOTE Apr 2013 #118
The reply SC was responding wasn't talking about that. Are their co-ed prisons? boston bean Apr 2013 #142
Are THERE co-ed prisons? Not that I know of. EOTE Apr 2013 #148
Yes, but it still doesn't make the claim that more men are raped than women. boston bean Apr 2013 #153
I never made that claim. EOTE Apr 2013 #154
I didn't say you did. boston bean Apr 2013 #157
You're asking me to defend something I didn't say, that's stupid. EOTE Apr 2013 #162
No I am not. boston bean Apr 2013 #163
Responding to ridiculous claims with more ridiculousness is not helpful. EOTE Apr 2013 #167
I could see if your ire were focused on the person the poster was responding to. boston bean Apr 2013 #172
Then I'm over the top. EOTE Apr 2013 #176
That isn't what the poster said at all. boston bean Apr 2013 #178
I've posted it almost a dozen times now. EOTE Apr 2013 #179
yeah, but what your quoting isn't equalling what you are boston bean Apr 2013 #180
I would respond to that if I were capable of deciphering it. nt EOTE Apr 2013 #186
I never "added that women are doing most of it to men." Keep your words out of my mouth. Exultant Democracy Apr 2013 #149
You framed it that way. Perhaps you should edit. nt redqueen Apr 2013 #151
Your resposnible for your own close reading. I most definitly do not want to reframe, Exultant Democracy Apr 2013 #161
Back up the claim that more men are raped than women. boston bean Apr 2013 #165
post 143 Exultant Democracy Apr 2013 #168
You're using the "all men are potential rapists" canard as if it had any validity. redqueen Apr 2013 #169
You can't be serious, Sheldon Cooper Apr 2013 #189
I don't play rugby either, but then I'm not very good at it. EOTE Apr 2013 #206
fucking disgusting lying bullshit. cali Apr 2013 #121
DOJ, the Bureau of justice statistics and the National Prison Rape Elimination Commission. Exultant Democracy Apr 2013 #143
Those links tell us more men are raped than women? boston bean Apr 2013 #174
If you add up the numbers they do. Which led to a series of articles like this last year Exultant Democracy Apr 2013 #177
In prisons, not the general population BainsBane Apr 2013 #214
You must have only looked at the first tow, because you are incorrect. Exultant Democracy Apr 2013 #219
statistics BainsBane Apr 2013 #256
The numbers they give for male rape is about 10 times lower then what the DOJ and BOJ have Exultant Democracy Apr 2013 #265
Rape in prison somehow doesn't count? theKed Apr 2013 #225
Thanks -- that article was very interesting. CokeMachine Apr 2013 #224
There are some problems with the comparisons boston bean Apr 2013 #236
it's prison rape only BainsBane Apr 2013 #213
Rape is rape if you add up the numbers my premise holds. Exultant Democracy Apr 2013 #220
The reports you provided are about prisons BainsBane Apr 2013 #251
Your post is the disgusting post. I didn't realize a very pubic news story from last year Exultant Democracy Apr 2013 #266
I think you forgot your sarcasm emote Marrah_G Apr 2013 #126
rape is part of the institutional process datasuspect Apr 2013 #127
What evidence do you have that is the case? BainsBane Apr 2013 #211
Really? Do you have the stats for that? smirkymonkey Apr 2013 #241
What a horrible ordeal. I'm glad he came forward. redqueen Apr 2013 #110
+1 nt Zorra Apr 2013 #135
+1 La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2013 #254
Rape is Rape and this is a terrible thing. Marrah_G Apr 2013 #139
Suppose that the assault started off as non-sexual Mopar151 Apr 2013 #185
Men rape women, women rape men. haele Apr 2013 #218
Fascinating FightForMichigan Apr 2013 #227
I always hated word problems in math. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #231
Rape is horrible no matter who the perpetrator is. Jamastiene Apr 2013 #235
But what was the guy wearing? nt Courtesy Flush Apr 2013 #242
Another MRA-style response, if the sexes were reversed: redqueen Apr 2013 #244
ugh. hope he finds justice. La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2013 #253
 

BlueJazz

(25,348 posts)
1. I don't quite get the 200 lb part but it's still an unusual story. I know it is..
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:53 AM
Apr 2013

..possible for a man to be raped but 4 times ??

 

TheMadMonk

(6,187 posts)
23. Just keep on stimulating that prostate.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:44 AM
Apr 2013

Or a cock ring to prevent ejaculation.


Or it could have been 4 cases of face-sitting in which case the 200 lb is quite relevant.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
28. Perhaps it made it easier to overpower him?
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:59 AM
Apr 2013

But 4 to 1 would take care of that regardless. But descriptions of rapists are relevant for the public so they can be on the look out.

Warpy

(110,913 posts)
42. He just wanted to point out that since they were fat
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:42 AM
Apr 2013

he couldn't possibly have consented. Yeah, right.

However, it's possible as long as they didn't allow him to climax and especially if they used a gadget to keep him from deflating after he had. Oral sex might have been part of it, too, forcing him to perform it on them.

Rape is wrong. It's an ugly crime of humiliation, violence and control no matter who does it to whom.

 

TheDebbieDee

(11,119 posts)
88. "it's possible as long as they didn't allow him to climax"
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 08:38 AM
Apr 2013

Years before VIAGRA was created, I knew a guy who could continue to stand at attention after arriving. He was literally an effing machine.

Turborama

(22,109 posts)
64. They could have spiked his drink with viagra
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:37 AM
Apr 2013

Or forced one down his throat.

From what I've read/heard the effect of those pills lasts for hours.

TheMightyFavog

(13,770 posts)
173. Or the women could have used *ahem* adapter kits, available in almost any reputable sex shop.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:28 PM
Apr 2013

If you've seen a certain episode of Weeds, you'll know what I'm talking about.

wickerwoman

(5,662 posts)
71. Probably
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 04:43 AM
Apr 2013

they shoved something up his behind. Sorry to be graphic... but female on male rape doesn't have to involve the man getting an erection.

 

BlueJazz

(25,348 posts)
216. Oh..I see...didn't think of that. Boy..sometimes the world gets a little stranger ..
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:52 PM
Apr 2013

..than you thought possible. (and this is from a Physicist)

Thanks.

ellenfl

(8,660 posts)
200. but that headline doesn't say she was raped by a 200 lb man she met online.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:26 PM
Apr 2013

and the description using their weight hardly narrows the field.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
202. No, it sure doesn't.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:27 PM
Apr 2013

I thought I'd provide an example of a male suspect's weight being reported.

As to your edit, the more physical characteristics that can be provided .... the better? Weight wasn't the only description the young man provided. Hair colour, approx. age and height were also given.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
209. It is provided as an answer to the question of his credibility
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:19 PM
Apr 2013

As in "she was raped... by a big guy, with three big buddies... so it really wasn't her fault for not fighting her way out of the situation".

Blaming the victim is a bad thing, unless it's a guy, in which case we need to proactively explain all the reasons that he really is a victim.

Only on DU do we worry about the potential for the damage to the perpetrators self-image.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
246. Who specifically is blaming the male victim in this instance?
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 09:06 PM
Apr 2013

Who specifically (and without room for obvious misinterpretation) is blaming the male victim in this instance?

Or (and I find this much more likely) are you simply inferring blame to better validate your own premises?

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
262. The question was asked why the women's weight was relevant.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 11:50 PM
Apr 2013

The obvious answer is that if it had been omitted, people wouldn't believe the story.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
249. I think the idea -- which still could be silly -- is that they were large/strong
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 09:32 PM
Apr 2013

The first implied question in a female-on-male rape is how the male was overpowered. That's bound up in all kinds of gender politics too, but I didn't read it as being about looks so much as physical strength.
 

BlueJazz

(25,348 posts)
215. Yep..that's what was going on in my mind also. "Mrs Smith was raped by a 214 pound male"
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:45 PM
Apr 2013

Never heard that one.... ????

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
2. That is why "all men are potential.rapists" stance was so wrong.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:57 AM
Apr 2013

Rape can and is committed by both sexes.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
103. If a man is changing a tire out in the middle of nowhere,
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:13 PM
Apr 2013

and a women stops and approaches him, he doesn't really have to size her up as a potential rapist, because men being raped by women is an extremely rare occurrence. Reverse the sexes, and the woman knows 1/3 of women are raped by men, so she very much has to size him up as a potential rapist.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
106. Still doesnt validate that All men are potential rapists.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:27 PM
Apr 2013

Why, because men are in most cases phosically stronger than women? Does that make men potential rapists?
Some men do rape, its a fact, and percentage wise, majority of rapes are indeed committed by men. But that doesn't make ALL men potential rapists. Just because some would, doesn't mean all would. I just don't think is fair to our fathers, brothers, sons, co workers, etc, to have this kind of mentality going around that all men are potential rapists. Broad generalizations like that don't help IMO.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
122. It's not about the men in our lives that we love and charish.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:55 PM
Apr 2013

It doesn't mean our fathers, etc. may rape someone. It's about the position women find themselves in. If a woman is in an isolated area, and she is approached by a man, she doesn't know his intentions. In the flat tire scenario, the man approaching the woman is probably not a rapist. He probably just wants to help, but since rape is so frequent, the woman needs to be careful, and the man shouldn't do anything that could be perceived as creepy.

My mother was once getting a ride home from a tow-truck guy, and on the ride home, the man was telling my mother about his sex life. This made her very uncomfortable, and she lied to him, saying that her husband was home wondering where she was. Fortunately, the man was just socially inept, and he didn't try anything, but since he did not see how she could view him as a potential rapist, he creeped her out.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
17. If "all humans are potential rapists but
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:33 AM
Apr 2013

the probability that any actual rapist will be female is exceedingly small" makes you feel better, go for it.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
25. Yes rape can be committed by both.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:49 AM
Apr 2013

Do you cross the street when approached by a group of female strangers?

Do you suggest meeting your first date with a woman in separate cars?

Do you avoid going into an elevator if the only other occupant is a woman?

When you have a flat tire, do you drive home on the flat (or to the nearest police station) to avoid being vulnerable on the street alone?

When walking home alone after dark do you prepare yourself and make sure that your hand is on your canister of mace, you stride with a strong purpose keeping your eyes straight ahead, and grip your keys through your knuckles so that you can swipe the ends through someone's face if you had to?

Would you turn down a ride from a party from three of your female friends and take a taxi instead? Would you worry about the taxi driver if the driver were female?

Do you never ever ever leave your beverage out of your eyesight?

Do you never ever ever allow a female that you barely know buy AND deliver your drink?





Mira

(22,378 posts)
27. Something very important happened to me reading your reply
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:59 AM
Apr 2013

I went from chuckling and being amused, to recognizing my life long female-ness and therefore caution in a new way, to not being amused at all.
Very fine work on your part.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
33. Thank you, Mira. Thank you so much.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:13 AM
Apr 2013

It was actually difficult to write. As a mother of a young women, it pains me that I had to teach her to restrict her movements in general society (as opposed to "bad neighborhoods&quot .

Mira

(22,378 posts)
38. I can understand what you are saying well.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:24 AM
Apr 2013

You did it magnificently, touching on many aspects with humor/seriousness/commitment to cause.
But bottom line: It's not a joke.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
30. Just because most rapes are committed by men, it doesnt mean ALL men are potential rapists.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:08 AM
Apr 2013

It's a sexist stance and is wrong.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
36. Dear darkangel218, I believe that you are not a rapist so...
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:22 AM
Apr 2013

please send me a copy of your driver's license so that my daughter or I will recognize that we are safe when we meet you in public.

Otherwise, both she and I will avoid being in a vulnerable situation with you if we happen to encounter you.

If you are alone on a elevator, we will not get on that elevator.

If, when walking alone at night, we will grip our canister of mace and focus the eyes in the back of our head until we feel that we safe from being a target.

Why didn't you answer any of my questions?

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
39. Lmao!! you have trust issues then , if you are afraid of and want to avoid the 8 billion people
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:29 AM
Apr 2013

On this planet.
And why would I answer something so silly? Whatever scenarios you will post , it still not validate that ALL men are potential rapists. Like I said before, that stance is wrong and sexist. MOST men wouldn't even dream of ever committing such hideous act.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
46. Why would she trust you?
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:50 AM
Apr 2013

My own husband tells me I have trust issues.

Let's see...

I was raped by a man when I was 8.

I was beaten by a man when I was 21.

I am 5 feet 1 inch tall and had a 10 pound kid. My husband thought it was OK to go out and cheat on me the night our son was born and then tried to beat me up by throwing me across the room when I confronted him on his infidelity.

Yeah... we have trust issues...

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
49. Living in fear is a choice.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:56 AM
Apr 2013

I prefer to have sharp self defense skills rather than being scared, but to each their own.

And I'm not telling anyone to trust blindly, but simply not to defend sexist comments. That's all.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
57. The sharp defense skill that I posed to you in my questions that you've not answered
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:09 AM
Apr 2013

are defense skills that are near solely advised to women to protect themselves from men.

Perhaps you could present your own list of precautions that boys are taught to protect themselves, when they become young men, from the violence of women.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
50. BTW, the husband who tells me I have trust issues
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:57 AM
Apr 2013

is my second husband.

I divorced the one who threw me across the room.

I just wish my current husband understood why I have trust issues. He's not a bad guy, but he cannot fathom what it's like to be female all his life.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
47. Where have I once stated most men would consider rape...
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:53 AM
Apr 2013

But given the horrific rape and sexual assault statistics how about you explain how a woman, given all the scenarios I gave you, is supposed to figure out what man is a rapist or not?

Each and every one of those questions that I posed to you are situations that little girls, in expectation that they will be young women, are taught to avoid.

Do little boys receive similar instructions? No they don't. Perhaps you can tell me why?

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
55. There is no point in dragging this on and on.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:02 AM
Apr 2013

Singling out men in that comment is wrong, I hope you will realize that someday.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
62. I hope you realize... someday
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:26 AM
Apr 2013

that you've been given, as a male, a sense of stability that no woman, in this life, has ever been given.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
86. Dragging this on and on?
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 08:27 AM
Apr 2013

If you are honestly interested in why the macro-level assertion, "all men are potential rapists," is a valid adjuration and NOT a sexist condemnation of individual men, read

Against Our Will (Brownmiller)

Ending the Violence (Thorne-Finch)

Sex and Advantage (Chafetz)

There are countless other books and research articles that could help you understand. Please look for information, instead of repeating an untenable assertion.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
40. You confuse the word potential with probable or future.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:38 AM
Apr 2013

It is a very simple concept. Women cannot keep their guard down because, in any situation, a women cannot know who may be a rapist or not.

If you had a son and a daughter, which precautions would you teach them to avoid being raped?

Would you teach your son not to get into an elevator with a women?

Would you teach your son not to pull over and change his tire?

Would you teach your son to suggest taking separate cars on a first date?

Would you teach your son to carry mace?

Would you teach your son to not get in a car after a party with three female friends?


You still haven't answered my questions.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
43. Someone in an elevator could potentially be robbed or even killed by a female.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:48 AM
Apr 2013

It probably has happened before. Rape is just one of many potential crimes in which BOTH sexes can be offenders.

Teaching your daughters self defense and avoiding certain situations is of course a good thing.

That being said, how is all this validating the stance that "All men are potential rapists"? Why single out men? Can you see the sexism in this remark?

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
56. Are young men taught to not get in an elevator when the only occupent of that elevator is a female?
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:04 AM
Apr 2013

Again, you confuse the word potential with probable.

Yes, indeed, a woman might rape a man. But the chances are the size of a gnat of a woman raping a man compared to the elephant sized chances of man raping woman.

Clearly, there is a reason why there are so many directives, both public and private, directed towards women on how to protect themselves from men.

Do you think we should stop telling women how to protect themselves?






KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
68. According to DoJ, 99% of all rapists in the US are men.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 04:25 AM
Apr 2013
http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/SOO.PDF

"The characteristics of those categorized as rapists: 99 in 100 are male, 6 in 10 are white, and the average age is the early thirties." (p.V)

The murder rate is 4.8 per 100,000, the rape rate is 26.8 per 100,000.
 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
58. Yes, actually, to an outside observer, we are
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:12 AM
Apr 2013

It's a take on the "stranger danger" stuff. You don't know a person. You don't know what they're going to do. Hell, even if you do know someone you might not know them in this situation or that. An approach of caution is definite warranted. Was Warren pointed out above, perhaps it is a bit unfair, but the reality is just that men rape more than women. Exponentially more. we also trend more towards violence in general.

It's not about flying into a panic. It's about assessing and understanding the risks of interaction with unfamiliar people - or, again, even with familiar people in different situations. It's not about assuming all men are rapists, either, just understanding that tragically, the potential is there, and it is real, and it's better to be wary than not.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
73. Only if you ignore Crime statistics
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 04:53 AM
Apr 2013

And adopt a cable news version of equivalency that denies reality.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
72. less than 1% of rapists are women
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 04:50 AM
Apr 2013

Certainly it can occur and the crime is every bit as horrific when a woman is the assailant, but the fact is rapes are overwhelmingly committed by men against women. What is sexist is the crime and the way it is treated in society, not an observation about the statistical probability of who might be a rapist.

 

TimberValley

(318 posts)
82. Agree. It's almost like saying, "All black people are potential muggers."
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 08:10 AM
Apr 2013

People here would be in an outcry over racism if someone said that.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
51. That's a pretty grim world you live in. Maybe this will make you feel a bit better:
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:57 AM
Apr 2013

Hot off the presses from the Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics

http://bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=4594

Female Victims of Sexual Violence, 1994-2010

Marcus Berzofsky, Dr.P.H., RTI, Christopher Krebs, Ph.D., RTI, Lynn Langton, Ph.D., BJS, Michael Planty, Ph.D., BJS, Hope Smiley-McDonald, Ph.D., RTI

March 7, 2013 NCJ 240655

Presents trends in the rate of completed or attempted rape or sexual assault against females from 1995 to 2010. The report examines demographic characteristics of female victims of sexual violence and characteristics of the offender and incident, including victim-offender relationship, whether the offender had a weapon, and the location of the victimization. The report also examines changes over time in the percentages of female victims of sexual violence who suffered an injury and received formal medical treatment, reported the victimization to the police, and received assistance from a victim service provider. Data are from the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), which collects information on nonfatal crimes, reported and not reported to the police, against persons age 12 or older from a nationally representative sample of U.S. households.


Highlights:

From 1995 to 2010, the estimated annual rate of female rape or sexual assault victimizations declined 58%, from 5.0 victimizations per 1,000 females age 12 or older to 2.1 per 1,000.
In 2005-10, females who were age 34 or younger, who lived in lower income households, and who lived in rural areas experienced some of the highest rates of sexual violence.
In 2005-10, the offender was armed with a gun, knife, or other weapon in 11% of rape or sexual assault victimizations.
In 2005-10, 78% of sexual violence involved an offender who was a family member, intimate partner, friend, or acquaintance.

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
76. What I find amazing about some of the replies to your post
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 05:49 AM
Apr 2013

is that women are lectured on DU that we aren't "careful" enough and that somehow leads to our being raped (or potentially being rape victims).

Then when you post the things women and girls are taught to keep ourselves safe and aware, your lectured about having trust issues. I wish the men (and some women) on DU would make up their minds on how women are to behave.

My mother and society/life taught me some of the above lessons and guess who taught me the others? The man who sexually assaulted me. 1 in 4 women have reason to have "trust" issues where it concerns men.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
138. Only 1 in 4? It has to be higher than that. I personally have been physically grabbed twice (both
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:06 PM
Apr 2013

times in normal surroundings, both times I got away); had 6 drunk men in a car try to shove my car off the road late at night (I would probably be dead if I had been caught--after being raped multiple times, of course); and was nearly raped in my apartment by a man I had dated a couple of times and who was the brother of a female friend. To say I have trust issues is to hardly scratch the surface.

I don't trust any strange man, in any circumstance. There have been a few times when I had to rely on strange men in order to get out of situations that could have turned into truly dangerous ones, but I was lucky in that these helpful men understood exactly why I felt as I did and went out of their way to understand it.

I have no idea why so many men get offended when women state that they must be wary of all men, and that they must treat all strange men as potentially dangerous to them. I can only chalk it up to the fact that lots of people truly don't have the imagination or empathy to put themselves in another's place, even for the few seconds required to understand someone else's point.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
248. Plus one million.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 09:27 PM
Apr 2013

Plus one million.

The last thing I concern myself, regardless of the situation, is rape. I never think about when I take a long walk after dark, I never think about it at the bar, I never think about. And to be perfectly honest, I don't personally know any male who does.

 

Purveyor

(29,876 posts)
257. Substitute woman/female in your post with black/hispanic and gasp with outrage yet the
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 10:31 PM
Apr 2013

same is reality in most of your instances.

Just saying...

liberalmuse

(18,670 posts)
44. No, that is the truth, and it is not a wrong stance.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:50 AM
Apr 2013

Most, if not all the women I know have either been raped or barely escaped being raped. Men rape in staggeringly higher numbers than women do. Fact. We live in a culture that sends subliminal and not so subtle messages that it is okay for men to assume that "no" does not mean no, and neither does the inability to give consent. In fact, there really is no comparison unless you are talking about our prison system.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
63. I disagree with you. You are sexist and don't believe in truth.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:31 AM
Apr 2013

BTW, do you believe in climate change.

There's some scientific research on that, too. Do you ignore that, as well?

Warpy

(110,913 posts)
45. You need to understand something
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:50 AM
Apr 2013

With all the onus for preventing rape dumped on women for so many years, women all feel hyper alert when they're in a confined space with any man they don't know.

That's what that statement means. It's up to men to change it.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
67. There will always be criminals.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:46 AM
Apr 2013

Why stigmatize the inocent for the crimes of the few? Do you consider it fair?

Nay

(12,051 posts)
150. BECAUSE THERE IS NO WAY FOR A WOMAN, OR A MAN, TO 'SEE' WHICH STRANGER IS
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:13 PM
Apr 2013

INNOCENT AND WHICH IS NOT. For women, especially the legions of women who have already had unpleasant experiences with men, men remain the main human category of attackers. Yes, that means that innocent men sometimes will have their feelings hurt when a woman won't get on an elevator with them, but that's the price.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
159. You know just as well as me that what statement does is generalizing
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:17 PM
Apr 2013

Which is complete BS. Rape awereness should be based on facts, not untrue statements.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
184. You aren't this stupid.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:48 PM
Apr 2013

Women have to constantly be concerned with self-defense because a large percentage of men will rape a woman if given a chance. That reality isn't the fault of women. And women are going to have to maintain that stance until we change men. It would be incredibly stupid to demand women change first.

You are either too dumb to type, or you understand this. Since you're typing, I'm gonna go with the latter. Continuing to play the victim card requires you to be the former.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
198. Perheps you should learn how to hold a conversation without insulting
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:22 PM
Apr 2013

Oh wait, you can't.

Let me know if things improve

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
228. Why?
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 05:34 PM
Apr 2013

What would be the benefit of listening to you pretend to be dumb so you can cry "it's not fair!!"?

There's a million libertarians who will happily cry "it's not fair!!", but they're not pretending to be as dumb. That makes them far more entertaining to listen to.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
238. +1000
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 08:28 PM
Apr 2013

Thanks. I don't mean to be the way I am, but I am afraid of strange men. It is just a matter of probability and I am not willing to take the risk. It's not sexist, it's just reality.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
247. Appropriate precautions are only insulting to those who fear appropriate precautions...
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 09:23 PM
Apr 2013

When my mother called and asked me to drive her to the ER as she had fallen and broken her wrist, the doctor, the nurse and a cop all asked her in one way or another if I had done it to her.

I was not being stigmatized for the crimes of a not just a few sons out there-- the staff were merely taking appropriate precautions for her safety. Appropriate precautions are only insulting to those who fear appropriate precautions.

I'd have to be an idiot to believe the hospital staff were being "unfair" to me.

 

Macoy51

(239 posts)
80. It is the Man's Responsibility?
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 06:50 AM
Apr 2013

Why is it the man's responsibility to change a woman? A woman should be responsible for her own actions and feelings. Wow, just having to point that out sounds so 1950’s. Are there any other areas in a woman's life you feel a man needs to fix?




Macoy

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
183. It's men's responsibility to change men
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:44 PM
Apr 2013

Women would love to not have to consider self-defense constantly.

They will have to do so until men change men.

And I seriously doubt you are so dumb that you don't understand that. But understanding that would prevent you from playing the victim card.

 

Macoy51

(239 posts)
201. Only You Can Fix Yourself
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:26 PM
Apr 2013

You are the one that is so paranoid, you are afraid to get in to elevator with a man…are you doubly afraid if it is a Black man? Only half afraid if he is a midget?

Here is a clue, no one can make you afraid, you control your state of mind. Take steps to empower yourself and you will be amazed at what you can do. Only you can fix your self.



Macoy

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
217. people enable rape in all kinds of ways
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:56 PM
Apr 2013

By high fiving assailants for scoring, blaming victims, not reporting crimes. Think about Steubenville and all the people who enabled those rapes to occur. Rape is a serious social problem, and each of us can do our part on helping to decrease assaults.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
229. Still can't comprehend the point then?
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 05:37 PM
Apr 2013
You are the one that is so paranoid, you are afraid to get in to elevator with a man

No, I'm a man.

I'm also capable of understanding things without them actually happening to me. It appears this is something you can't handle.

Here is a clue, no one can make you afraid, you control your state of mind.

Because statistics lie, right?

When you finally start thinking like an adult, you might actually understand the situation. Until then, your moronic platitudes are as meaningful as any Randian's.
 

Macoy51

(239 posts)
264. if You Lost the Argument, Throw Insults
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 06:51 AM
Apr 2013

If you lost the argument, throw insults

I guess if you can not handle a rational discussion, you can fall back to throwing insults, hey, it worked in grade school. Lol


Macoy

redgreenandblue

(2,088 posts)
223. That would be "white-knighting".
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 05:13 PM
Apr 2013

That men are somehow responsible for protecting women from harm (from other men or otherwise) is one of the premises of the patriarchy.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
230. No, that would be you deflecting
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 05:39 PM
Apr 2013

Men are not responsible for protecting women from harm.

Men are responsible for not raping women. See, it's up to the man to leave his pants on, and not rip hers off.

But good try on deflecting.

redgreenandblue

(2,088 posts)
263. Your words were "men should change men".
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 04:38 AM
Apr 2013

Last edited Thu Apr 11, 2013, 08:44 AM - Edit history (1)

The wording is ambiguous and could mean "each man should be responsible for his own actions" or "each man should be responsible for the actions of other men".

The later would be "white knighting".

salin

(48,954 posts)
78. nice hijack
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 05:56 AM
Apr 2013

by starting with that statement. Obscures your second statement and the man's trauma, by rehashing this seemingly weekly argument, which is read in two distinctly different ways.

As a survivor, my heart goes out to this man. Trauma brought by sexual assault is usually life-altering.

GaYellowDawg

(4,443 posts)
90. I used to think that way when younger.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 10:46 AM
Apr 2013

I would hear "all men are potential rapists" and get mad as hell. I would think (and say), "Not me! I am not a potential rapist! I have never even kissed a woman against her will!" Which is still true.

Thing is, though, it wasn't directed to me, or about me. The statement is simply a way of saying, "be careful." It's a way of telling women to be aware of their circumstances. It's like saying, "all dark alleys are potentially places to get mugged."

Women get raped by strangers, by friends, by boyfriends, by husbands, by relatives. There's no category of relationship that a woman can have with a man that has never been involved in a rape. Hell, here's no category of relationship that a woman can have with a man that hasn't been involved in a rape yesterday, and every day.

Am I a potential rapist? Hell, no. Anyone who knows me, knows that. They know that I don't even initiate hugs unless I know someone pretty well. But if someone doesn't know me? Yes, I come across immediately as kind, and open, and cheerful, and "wouldn't hurt a fly." I'm also large and powerful, and she's smart to play it safe and assume the worst of me, because the next large guy with a cheerful demeanor could be a monster. That's just the world we live in. Having that assumption directed towards those of us who would not and could not rape, and being hurt by it, just goes to show that rape affects all of us.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
92. I undersand what youre saying. However, teaching young girls/women
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 10:54 AM
Apr 2013

That all men are potential rapists can back fire in an ugly way, since is such a broadbrush statement. It can lead to young women fearing/ not trusting or even hating men, and subsequently have not very healthy relationships. Men are not any worse than women, and singling out their gender is plain wrong. Awareness can be made without such statements.

GaYellowDawg

(4,443 posts)
95. Oh, I don't think so.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 11:18 AM
Apr 2013

I don't think there are a lot of young women out there who fear/don't trust/hate men because of that statement. I'm not convinced there's the potential for a lot of that. In fact, I think you have to make a statement that dramatic in order to make young women pay attention. Because they're young, and think they're immortal and nothing bad will ever happen to them. And, if I was a parent, I'd far rather have my daughter be somewhat mistrustful than raped.

And I hate to say it, but a greater percentage of men rape than women. To deny that is to deny the statistics. Our gender is worse when it comes to that, and as such, deserves an extra caution. I hate it, but I'd rather have my feelings hurt than a woman raped.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
100. I completely disagree with you.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 11:34 AM
Apr 2013

Just because the the percentage of male rapist is a lot higher than female rapist does not validate that statement. And scaring young girls rather than educating them with actual facts and ways to protect themselves, is silly.

renate

(13,776 posts)
114. thank you!
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:44 PM
Apr 2013

Very well said. I think your example of "all dark alleys are potentially places to get mugged" is an excellent one.

I would guess that it's kind of frustrating for you, a nice guy, to know that women aren't going to trust you immediately, and I appreciate your understanding of that.

GaYellowDawg

(4,443 posts)
259. To be honest
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 11:39 PM
Apr 2013

It's not frustrating to know that women aren't going to trust me immediately, because I don't trust anyone immediately myself. Now, I'll respect someone immediately, and I'll like someone quickly, but the really important things like trust and friendship simply take time. And that's OK. If someone is smart enough to be cautious, good for her.

 

bike man

(620 posts)
210. That is a very good explanation of "All (anything) does (anything)". There is nothing wrong with
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:21 PM
Apr 2013

being careful around those folks one does not know.

GaYellowDawg

(4,443 posts)
260. I didn't get it for a long time.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 11:42 PM
Apr 2013

I didn't get it until I realized that it wasn't about me, and that it wasn't personal. That took longer, frankly, than it should have.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
245. How precisely does the one deny the other?
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 09:02 PM
Apr 2013

How precisely does the one deny the other?

A can do X. B did X. Therefore -A (not A)


I leaned in college that is not a logical course of reasoning... did Logic reduce its list of fallacies in the last twenty-five years?

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
3. i have a weird feeling about this story...not one, but *four* 200-pound women? who raped him
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:00 AM
Apr 2013

4 times?

hmmmmm

dsc

(52,130 posts)
4. I am going to come clean and admit I first thought the title read
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:02 AM
Apr 2013

that the guy was raped by a 4,200 pound woman.

 

Comrade_McKenzie

(2,526 posts)
8. In this thread: Double standards...
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:18 AM
Apr 2013

If a woman claimed to be raped by 4 men, there would be no expression of doubt.

Truly sickening individuals.

A Little Weird

(1,754 posts)
35. Really?
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:19 AM
Apr 2013

First of all, I don't doubt this guy and my heart goes out to him. This should not happen to anyone.

But to say that a woman would not be doubted is ludicrous. One reason so few rapes are reported is the fear they won't be believed and the relentless victim blaming that is so common with rape ("what was she wearing?", "was she drinking?", etc.).

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
84. bullshit. I expressed doubt about the woman in NE
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 08:24 AM
Apr 2013

who claimed to have been attacked by anti-gay thugs. I questioned the Jewish kid who claimed to have been beaten by anti-semitic thug. It turned out both were making up their stories. Yes, I've been wrong sometimes but if a story seems a little too strange, I often question it.

4 200 pound women all 5'4'' and all dressed in black dresses? Gets my hmmmm going.

Response to cali (Reply #84)

 

MrSlayer

(22,143 posts)
10. I find this very hard to believe.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:22 AM
Apr 2013

If I'm not turned on, I can't have sex. It doesn't matter what you do, if I'm not attracted I can't get an erection. It's always been that way. Add pressure and it's really not going to happen. Unless they were anally raping him with objects or something I can't see this happening. If a guy isn't willing he's not going to function once, let alone four times.

Nothing is impossible but this just seems highly improbable.

 

MrSlayer

(22,143 posts)
16. Haha! Nice.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:32 AM
Apr 2013

But yeah, pretty much. You can want to fuck me all you want but if I don't want to fuck you it isn't going to happen.

temporary311

(954 posts)
20. Actually, yeah, it can still happen.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:34 AM
Apr 2013

You don't need to be aroused to be raped. Frankly, the arousal of the person being raped isn't a factor at all, since rape is rarely about sex in the first place. You may also want to consider that not everyone's body works the same way. Just because you think (Im assuming you've never been raped) you wouldnt get an erection in such a situation, not everyone else will respond the same, nor is an erection necessary to be raped. Or to rape, for that matter.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
69. Some systems work regardless of circumstances.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 04:32 AM
Apr 2013

In some cases, the male genital system works regardless of who provides mechanical stimulation. We call it rape when a person does not consent. Period. Sometimes mechanical stimulation makes the victim orgasm, doesn't mean it isn't rape. It just compounds the tragedy, because so many are ignorant and think that if a victim orgasms, or gets an erection in the case of men, they can't have been raped, and that just adds to the guilt a victim feels afterwards.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
14. The article itself says 'sexually assaulted', so it could have been anything.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:30 AM
Apr 2013

ie ... maybe forced oral sex?

 

MrSlayer

(22,143 posts)
22. You're right.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:34 AM
Apr 2013

I hadn't considered that. Point to you and that's something that can happen pretty easily.

I'm thinking of rape as penetration when it can certainly be otherwise.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
19. It is in fact highly probable that direct genital stimulation can cause an erection.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:34 AM
Apr 2013

Regardless of mental or emotional sexual arousal.

Which can then be used in the course of a sexual assault. It may also be the case that the man was forced to perform oral sex or was forcefully penetrated.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
21. Use your imagination.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:34 AM
Apr 2013

They probably raped the poor guy in other ways than forcing him to penetrate them. Sorry for being graphic, but seriously, i have heard of women raping men before, its not that unheard of.

 

MrSlayer

(22,143 posts)
31. Yeah, I kind of went off half cocked on that one.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:10 AM
Apr 2013

Prematurely popped off there without really working it through.

octothorpe

(962 posts)
29. He doesn't have to function for it to be rape though...
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:05 AM
Apr 2013

Even if he stayed limp as they tried to do whatever, that's still rape, no? They could have simply sodomized him too.

 

datasuspect

(26,591 posts)
91. sex doesn't necessarily require an erect penis
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 10:50 AM
Apr 2013

Last edited Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:56 PM - Edit history (1)

there's assplay, pegging, felching, cunnilingus, and tons of other stuff you can do sexually that don't require a hard penis.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
240. Yes, interesting. Not that it is impossible, but it does seem kind of fishy.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 08:35 PM
Apr 2013

A man needs to function to get raped, unless he is raped with an object.

TDale313

(7,820 posts)
24. My heart goes out to this young man.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:44 AM
Apr 2013

Hope the rapists are caught and prosecuted. Not a joke or worthy of doubt, regardless of the genders involved.

liberalmuse

(18,670 posts)
48. I hope they're caught as well.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:53 AM
Apr 2013

No one should have to go through this, and as usual, the victim is going to be "raped" all over again in the court of public opinion. Lovely.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
26. I must admit to doing a triple take
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:52 AM
Apr 2013

Rape is horrendous and no one should blame victims. It's very unusual for women to be rapists but does occur. I hope they catch the perpetrators soon. This is unlikely to have been their first assault.

JI7

(89,182 posts)
37. "Sexual assaults by females on males are not unheard of in Toronto, a detective tells the Post."
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:22 AM
Apr 2013

is it higher in Toronto compared to most other places ?

Response to Purveyor (Original post)

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
74. .......
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 05:16 AM
Apr 2013

Not saying it didn't happen. It certainly could happen and has happened, but....

He described the women between the ages of 30 and 36, each around 5-foot-4 and weighing 200 pounds. They also wore short black dresses, high heels and no pantyhose, according to CHCH News.

Police said the man didn’t sustain any physical injuries.

<snip>

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/toronto-man-sexually-assaulted-4-women-police-article-1.1310488

Poll_Blind

(23,864 posts)
93. Would there be so much scrutiny here had a teenage girl been raped by four guys...
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 10:54 AM
Apr 2013

....who were described with similar weight and height?



PB

GaYellowDawg

(4,443 posts)
96. No.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 11:19 AM
Apr 2013

Because it wouldn't be as unusual. "Woman rapes man" stories are treated like "man bites dog" stories because it's not nearly as common for men to be raped by women as vice versa. So you can expect this kind of thing.

Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #93)

theKed

(1,235 posts)
221. All wearing
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 05:03 PM
Apr 2013

the same colour clothes. Not at all unusual for a night out on the town to wear a black dress. "Black dress" covers a staggeringly wide array of styles.

Response to theKed (Reply #221)

theKed

(1,235 posts)
237. Is it outside the realm of possibility?
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 07:37 PM
Apr 2013

Far from it. Nobody said they were all 4 wearing the same thing - all 4 were wearing the same colour.

Response to theKed (Reply #237)

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
101. More men are raped in Amerca then women. Men almost never report on female rapists.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 11:43 AM
Apr 2013

Last edited Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:14 PM - Edit history (2)

You would think that is some people cared as much about rape as the claimed that more attention would be paid to the majority of victims. Rather then addressing the problem at its root many of these people insist on blaming the victim with phrases like all man are potential rapist, when in fact all people are potential rapist and all men are more likely to be victims then rapists themselves.

LancetChick

(272 posts)
102. "More men are raped in Amerca then women"
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:12 PM
Apr 2013

Are you, by any chance, related to Sarah Palin? And is your face characterized by a vacuous expression? Just wondering.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
105. I have seen an article that claimed man-on-man prison rape happened more frequently
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:19 PM
Apr 2013

than man-on-woman rape in general. It was posted on DU2, and I don't remember if the article was based a peer-reviewed study, based on nothing, or something in between.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
132. no kidding, that is why I asked the question.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:02 PM
Apr 2013

In a rhetorical way...

You know like... who is it perpetrating all these rapes, when the poster claims that more men are raped overall than women.

But if you read his comments further, he does claim it's women that are doing most of the raping.

You want to stick up for those bullshit statistics be my guest.

 

datasuspect

(26,591 posts)
134. when you consider that institutionalized rape
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:03 PM
Apr 2013

is an unofficial punishment afforded by the penal system, plus the fact that male prisoner rape often goes unreported or if it is reported, nothing is done about it, it makes you wonder.

i'm too lazy to look it up though.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
136. you are preaching to the choir,
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:05 PM
Apr 2013

but it still doesn't make what the poster said true.

It does not equate to more men being victims of rape than women are.

It's a terrible thing to happen to anyone, male, female, prisoner, child, anyone.

You aren't going to be able to get an argument from me on that. Try as though you might.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
187. No, you are not the choir at all. You are singing something else.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:52 PM
Apr 2013

Why are men who were raped by other men somehow less victimized? That is the inescapable implication of your post upthread.

If it could be shown that comparable numbers of rapes are inflicted on men as women in a year, would you still believe that the men aren't really victims because the perpetrators are also men?

This question gets at the core of the issue. Is the point of talking about rape culture, rape awareness, and organizations like beyond survival, to reduce the frequency of rape, and to mitigate the physical and psychological harm it causes?... or is it just a rhetorical jawbone to whack men in general? If males aren't eligible for advocacy as victims because they are men like the perpetrators, then it's hard to avoid the conclusion that it's all about the jawbone.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
190. No, you are making things up Jeff, that I never said.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:02 PM
Apr 2013

And you are summarizing how you think I feel, by using those made up thoughts.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
193. Then what did you mean by "who is perpetrating all those rapes?"
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:16 PM
Apr 2013
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2647628

What you typed certainly appeared unambiguous, particularly in the context of having heard it many times here over the years.

Is the fact that men perpetrate most rapes relevant to the methods, emphasis and justice for male vs female victims? If so, how?

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
195. Uh, he was saying it was women.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:18 PM
Apr 2013

that was what my response was to.

And in no way does that comment correlate to any unsubstantiated, ridiculous accusation you have thrown at me.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
196. Yet, you refuse to answer my question.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:18 PM
Apr 2013

He said two things;
a) men are more frequently raped than women
b) men rarely report rapes when a woman (or women) are the perpetrator

I doubt A but not B.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
199. No. "?" is known as a question mark.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:24 PM
Apr 2013

It is a request for you to amplify your opinion so that I can avoid mischaracterizing you in the future. I even tried to phrase the question into simple yes or no framework.

I'll ask again, in case you missed it the first time.

Is the fact that the perpetrators of most rapes are men, relevant to the methods, emphasis and justice for male vs female victims?

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
205. No it is not.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:58 PM
Apr 2013

And I never ever once said it was!

As I said I was responding to a specific post and you made up a bunch of stuff made up in your mind that you said I said.

your question was designed to be an accusation of something you dreamt up.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
207. Then you misunderstood what he wrote
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:12 PM
Apr 2013

He said
a) men are raped more often (which is debatable)
b) men rarely report being victimized by women (which is true)

Now that I know what you believe, "Who commits all these rapes? Is it women?" is a nonsensical response, since we both agree that it is immaterial to the issue.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
208. No, you made up stupid crap.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:16 PM
Apr 2013

I've explained myself twice to you, now.

You still latch on like a dog with a bone, trying to convince me you know better than me and that you are right and know what I really meant!

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
212. What you say can't be reconciled with other things you say.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:30 PM
Apr 2013

What I think you believe has little to do with it, except in the sense that some of the things you say tend to be outliers in the context of other things you say.

If justice to victims should be gender blind, then knowing the gender of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Yet in many threads on the topic of sexual victimization of men, your contribution to the conversation is "But most of those crimes are committed by men!".

Just like this one.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
222. in your inflated ego.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 05:10 PM
Apr 2013

I'm not playing. I've told you what I meant and after your demands that I answer your question, I did.

That's it. Not good enough for you, not my problem.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
203. Crickets?
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:39 PM
Apr 2013

Just for the record, the only answer to my simple question that is consistent with membership in the choir that you claim is "No".

By the way, according to the Department of Justice in 2008, 216,000 inmates in the US were the victims of sexual assault.

http://nplusonemag.com/raise-the-crime-rate

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
181. I see this a lot.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:40 PM
Apr 2013

If your intent is something other than to excuse rape victimization among men and make it less important than victimization of women, then this observation is a complete non sequitur.

The race/gender/nationality/height/weight/IQ of the attacker does not matter to the search for justice for the victim.

It's actually pretty offensive, when you think about it. It's no different than saying that inner city crime is not such a problem because we all know that it's blacks perpetrating all those crimes.

The rape of men and boys is vastly underreported, but I haven't seen anything definitive that shows it's more common than rape of women and girls.

Rape of men and boys is qualitatively (if not quantitatively) every bit as important an issue as rape of women and girls.

Sheldon Cooper

(3,724 posts)
107. You'll need to post a link for this preposterous claim.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:34 PM
Apr 2013

Because unless you are talking about prison rape, and even then I'd seriously challenge that conclusion, you are talking out of your posterior.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
111. Does prison rape not count or something?
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:40 PM
Apr 2013

Or do men in prison deserve to get rape? I'm curious as to why you'd discount prison rape as it's not "real" rape or something.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
113. It's because of the way he said it.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:44 PM
Apr 2013

He said:

More men are raped in Amerca then women. Men almost never report on female rapists.

If it is true that more men are raped than women, this still has nothing to do with men not reporting female rapists, because it isn't female rapists raping men in vast numbers.

Then he said:
You would think that is some people cared as much about rape as the claimed that more attention would be paid to the majority of victims. Rather then addressing the problem at its root man of these people insist on blaming the victim with phrases like all man are potential rapist, when in fact all people are potential rapist and all men are more likely to be victims then rapists themselves.

When it's overwhelmingly men who are raping both male AND female victims, you can see how that staetment falls apart, I think.

It's beyond disingenuous.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
115. Why is it disingenuous to point out that men are being raped in far larger numbers than most people
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:46 PM
Apr 2013

expect?

I don't know if it's true or not that more men are raped in this country than women when prison rape is included, but I think what's truly disingenuous is to act like prison rape doesn't count. I think the typical response to prison rape is that it's not a big deal. I think that's horrific and needs to be changed.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
120. Here's what he said:
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:53 PM
Apr 2013

"Because unless you are talking about prison rape, and even then I'd seriously challenge that conclusion," as if prison rape SHOULDN'T be included in metrics regarding male rape? That's ridiculously stupid. That's like saying "Well, if you don't include acquaintance and date rape, women are hardly raped at all. It's idiotic and offensive.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
123. He was responding to the claim
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:55 PM
Apr 2013

that more men get raped than women, by women.

Ie, even if you are to include prison rape (male on male), it's still not close to the numbers of women who are raped by men.

I think that was the point. But far be it from me to put any words into anyones mouth.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
125. But he was suggesting that not including them would be the default.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:57 PM
Apr 2013

If he had said "Even including prison rape, I don't believe that" that would be one thing. But he said "Unless you are talking about prison rape" as if that shouldn't be the default position. That's ridiculously stupid. OF COURSE prison rape is included. Why the fuck wouldn't it be?

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
128. He doesn't believe the bullshit claim
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:59 PM
Apr 2013

that more men are raped by women, than women are raped by men.

and was introducing the very real issue of prison rape into the discussion, by saying that even if you are including that, your numbers are bullshit.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
130. My numbers? Not very good at following a conversation, are you?
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:00 PM
Apr 2013

I never suggested that more men are raped in this country than women. I said that to think for one moment that prison rapes shouldn't be included in that metric is evil and ridiculously stupid.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
146. I took offense at the suggestion that prison rape shouldn't be included by default.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:10 PM
Apr 2013

That is ridiculously stupid and THAT is what I took offense to. Nothing else.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
147. Well, I would like to suggest that
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:11 PM
Apr 2013

he was including them, and the post he was responding was not.

So, how you get from here to there, is perplexing... but there it is...

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
152. He DIDN'T KNOW that it should be included.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:14 PM
Apr 2013

"Unless you are talking about prison rape" as if it shouldn't be included by default. That's insanely stupid. But having seen several of your posts in the past few minutes, I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
155. Because the poster didn't include it by saying that
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:16 PM
Apr 2013

men aren't reporting rapes by women, and way more men are raped than women.

My goodness....

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
164. Christ, I have no intention of defending things I haven't said. You should really get off that.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:22 PM
Apr 2013

It's sick and pathological. I've said what I found abhorrent, if you're unable to grasp that, it's on you, not me.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
166. I'm not asking you to explain anything.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:23 PM
Apr 2013

But if you are gonna be upset with one for bringing it into the conversation to try to get clarification, then throw your ire where it belongs. On the one who wasn't talking about it. But was making wild inaccurate claims.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
144. No, I did not.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:09 PM
Apr 2013

If I was stupid enough to make a comment like that unsourced, I would have at least have had the dignity to use "than" rather than "then".

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
131. It's not.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:01 PM
Apr 2013

It's disingenuous to tie that to the idea that men don't report when women rape them, or that the idea of Schroedinger's rapist is somehow wrong, because prison rape.

I do think it counts. Very much. It sickens me that people treat it like a punishment, and relish the idea that it happens. It's sick.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
141. I don't know if that's true or not.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:08 PM
Apr 2013

I'd imagine that there are men who would not report due to fear of public reaction just as there are women. I couldn't tell whether men or women would be more likely to not report. However, in terms of prison rape, there is quite often less recourse for the victim than there is in free society.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
158. There is indeed less recourse in prison.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:17 PM
Apr 2013

Prison administrators seem to ignore it completely, if they aren't actually encouraging and enabling it.

Schroedinger's rapist is not about broadbrushing men. The "all men are potential rapists" canard is a distortion of an explanation that one woman posited as for why women are not receptive to advances from strangers at any time in any location. To use it the way that poster did is flatly disingenuous.

I posted a few links here which explain the origin of Schroedinger's rapist (as well as some follow-up explanations as they seem to be necessary on a depressingly routine basis).
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2620330

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
175. I have less issue with broadbrushing now.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:30 PM
Apr 2013

So even if it were broadbrushing, I wouldn't have an issue with it if it makes one safer.

What I do have an issue with is trying to belittle anyone's pain and suffering as if that makes the world more equal. I think prison abuse in general is one of the great ignored issues of our time. And I also believe that in the old maxim that any society's worth can be determined by how it treats its prisoners. We treat ours pretty damned awfully, and it seems intentionally so.

Sheldon Cooper

(3,724 posts)
116. I doubt if you're really curious, but I'll explain anyway:
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:46 PM
Apr 2013

I don't think prison rape occurs in greater numbers than man-on-woman rape. See? I think that was pretty clear from my post, but if you want to twist it into something else, go right ahead.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
118. I doubt you're much one for thinking, but I'll explain anyway:
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:49 PM
Apr 2013

You said: "Because unless you are talking about prison rape, and even then I'd seriously challenge that conclusion" which suggests that perhaps prison rape shouldn't be included in metrics which report male rape. That is ridiculously ignorant. Why the hell WOULDN'T prison rape be included? Are you of the impression that prison rapes shouldn't be included because that's simply what happens to prisoners and should be expected? That is horrifically offensive and stupid.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
142. The reply SC was responding wasn't talking about that. Are their co-ed prisons?
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:08 PM
Apr 2013

You take something he said when responding directly to something someone else wrote.

That is extremely unfair. And try to harangue him for being more specific.

The person he was responding to, said more men are raped, and then added that women are doing most of it to men. The post that was responded to was not talking about prison rape. It was discussing women on male rape. Again, are their co-ed prisons?

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
148. Are THERE co-ed prisons? Not that I know of.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:12 PM
Apr 2013

Not that that has anything to do with this conversation. My sole point is that it's insanely stupid not to think that prison rape should be included by default if you're looking for metrics to record incidences of male rape.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
153. Yes, but it still doesn't make the claim that more men are raped than women.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:14 PM
Apr 2013

Which is complete bullshit.

That is the point SC was trying to make, and introducing the very real problem into the conversation, and you hopped all over him for it.

If you want to be upset about something, how about the post that was being responded to?

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
157. I didn't say you did.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:17 PM
Apr 2013

Post to where i said you said that.

I am pointing to the conversation, that got's you all in a tither.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
162. You're asking me to defend something I didn't say, that's stupid.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:19 PM
Apr 2013

Why would I address that comment when I never responded to it or said it in the first place? I didn't defend his comment or even come close to saying it was true. My comment was to someone who stupidly suggested that prison rape wouldn't be included by default in male rape metrics.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
163. No I am not.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:21 PM
Apr 2013

And do not mean to come across that way.

what i am trying to say is that the poster you are upset with was responding to ridiculous claims.

And when he tries to get more clarification, to those ridiculous claims, by introducing prison rape into the topic, to try and get a line on what the poster was saying, you hopped all over him.

Long sentence I know...

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
167. Responding to ridiculous claims with more ridiculousness is not helpful.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:23 PM
Apr 2013

I don't have all of the U.S.'s rape metrics available to me at the moment, although I'm inclined not to believe the post which sparked this subthread, I couldn't refute it with authority so I didn't bother.

What I DO know rather well is that not including prison rape in metrics for males is utterly inhuman. THAT is what I was responding to.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
172. I could see if your ire were focused on the person the poster was responding to.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:27 PM
Apr 2013

To be so critical of someone introducing it to get clarification as to whether they were including it or not, seems a little over the top, imho.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
176. Then I'm over the top.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:32 PM
Apr 2013

I think prison rape and prison abuse in general is one of the most awful aspects of our society. To think for one second that prison rape shouldn't be included in male rape metrics offends me horrendously. Again, it would offend me just as much if I heard "Because unless you are talking about acquaintance and date rape, women are hardly raped at all" .

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
178. That isn't what the poster said at all.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:33 PM
Apr 2013

You are not taking into context that which with the poster was responding to.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
179. I've posted it almost a dozen times now.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:35 PM
Apr 2013

I'm very aware of both what I was responding to as well as the post it was responding to. I use quotation marks for a reason. Christ.

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
161. Your resposnible for your own close reading. I most definitly do not want to reframe,
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:19 PM
Apr 2013

the conjunction of these two different facts points out something very important about how our society treats male victims of rape. You would have to be rather sexist not to see why this matters and needs to be address more often.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
169. You're using the "all men are potential rapists" canard as if it had any validity.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:24 PM
Apr 2013

It does not.

Schroedinger's rapist was an explanation of why women aren't receptive to come-ons by strangers at any and all times/locations. It was picked up by MRA types as a flag of victimhood and has been waved enthusiastically ever since.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
206. I don't play rugby either, but then I'm not very good at it.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:04 PM
Apr 2013

I don't consider this a game, but it's clear that you wouldn't be very good at it anyway.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
121. fucking disgusting lying bullshit.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:54 PM
Apr 2013

and you don't provide one link to a reputable source for your claim. Please do not post a link to some bullshit men's rights organization.

Yes, the number of males being raped is under reported but is sure the fuck isn't more men than women who are raped in this country.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
174. Those links tell us more men are raped than women?
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:29 PM
Apr 2013

Nope, they don't. they discuss the horrible crime of prison rape. Which are despicable.

I don't condone the rape of anyone and take such a crime committed upon anyone quite seriously.

Your links do not equate to your claim that more men are raped than women.

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
177. If you add up the numbers they do. Which led to a series of articles like this last year
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:32 PM
Apr 2013
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/men-outnumber-women-among-american-rape-victims/

Of course you would have to read the papers first to get the information you are looking for and since the first was 225 pages long I am guessing you posted before you actually bothered to read them.



BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
256. statistics
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 10:22 PM
Apr 2013

90% of rape victims are women. http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims

That does not mean there is anything less horrific about the rape of a man, but your effort to distort reality is strange.

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
265. The numbers they give for male rape is about 10 times lower then what the DOJ and BOJ have
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 03:06 PM
Apr 2013

they probably like most people are not counting prison rape. The entire point of the three papers I gave links to is to show that the traditional way of counting rape in America counts just under half the total rapes once you add in the prison data.

theKed

(1,235 posts)
225. Rape in prison somehow doesn't count?
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 05:18 PM
Apr 2013

Is it because ...they shouldn't have been there in the first place?
Maybe the perpetrators just couldn't resist the way he looked in that jumpsuit?
Is it just not 'legitimate'?

Rape is rape is rape. In prison, on the street, in the bedroom, anywhere, to anybody. You don't get to lop off a chunk of statistics like that. Victims of rape are victims of rape no matter the venue.

 

CokeMachine

(1,018 posts)
224. Thanks -- that article was very interesting.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 05:15 PM
Apr 2013

I seem to be hearing crickets from your detractors after you posted this. Make me wonder why.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
236. There are some problems with the comparisons
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 07:04 PM
Apr 2013

I suggest you check out this link:

http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2012/02/20/is-the-united-states-the-only-country-where-more-men-are-raped-every-year-than-women/

It is not at all clear that men raped in prison outnumber women raped in general.

Also, the stats that you are quoting for prison rape, include women who are raped in prison.

It atrocious, I'll agree. But to make the claim you are making is just not the case.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
213. it's prison rape only
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:33 PM
Apr 2013

More men are in prison, so obviously most prison rapes are against men. It's a horrific human rights abuse. But that is not the general society. Surely you have to know that much.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
251. The reports you provided are about prisons
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 09:53 PM
Apr 2013

They aren't about sexual assault more broadly. Obviously more men will be represented because the prison population is overwhelmingly male.

Your premise doesn't not hold. Your premise is unsound. 1) you asserted these were rapes by women that went unreported. Most prison rape is male on male.
2) any report about rape in the prison population doesn't include the rest of society. I can tell that much from the titles of the documents you provided.

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
266. Your post is the disgusting post. I didn't realize a very pubic news story from last year
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 03:12 PM
Apr 2013

needed a bunch of links to support it, but I did provide them for the people who can't type three words into the google and find out themselves. You post is seriously repugnant and you should be ashamed of your over the top personal attack.

 

datasuspect

(26,591 posts)
127. rape is part of the institutional process
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:58 PM
Apr 2013

in the prison industry.

i can sorta see where you are coming from.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
211. What evidence do you have that is the case?
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:27 PM
Apr 2013

All statistics show that women make up about 91% of rape victims. I don't see the point of making such an obviously false claim.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
241. Really? Do you have the stats for that?
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 08:38 PM
Apr 2013

Because I find that highly unbelieveable. Women just are not that inclined to rape.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
110. What a horrible ordeal. I'm glad he came forward.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:39 PM
Apr 2013

The more people speak out, the less likely other victims will keep quiet.

Mopar151

(9,965 posts)
185. Suppose that the assault started off as non-sexual
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:50 PM
Apr 2013

'Cuz I've seen girls gang up on an obnoxious/creepy guy (Ain't sayin' it was right..). If loserboy's pants get yankned off and the assault continues or escalates, there y' are.

haele

(12,581 posts)
218. Men rape women, women rape men.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 04:23 PM
Apr 2013

Men rape men, women rape women.
Unlike the first type of assault, the others usually don't get reported because (in my observation/opinion) there's the cultural aspect of strength or position of power involved; the other types of victimization are more "equal footing" assaults than the first and it is expected that the victim is better able to avoid the assault than in the first - that either it was just a case of consensual or organizational horseplay gone wrong/"mean girlz" (i.e. females who commit the crime of assault/rape, because for some reason, females are "not supposed to feel the need to establish dominance"...) or some sort of vigilante "they had it coming" situation. At least in the western world, the other three are too often considered less of a crime.

I don't agree with those who would laugh or shrug off the other types of rape. Rape is rape is rape is rape, no matter who inflicts it on whom, and there is no difference of severity of the crime of rape dependent on strength, gender, social position, "looks" or any other factor between the perpetrator and victim.
Rape is assault; it is about taking control over someone else using their own personal and/or sexual vulnerabilities, not about the sex itself. It's scary, brutish, and leaves the victim - whomever that victim is - feeling dirty and helpless; whether or not there is physical damage, it is a mental/emotional assault that leaves lasting mental damage, and affects the life (and activity) of the victim and by extension, the victim's circle of acquaintance (family, friends, co-workers, people they subsequently meet) from that point on.
The only other circumstance to be considered with such an assault is the battery portion - the physical damage.
It doesn't take away from the severity of men against women rape to point this out, or to say that we as a society needs to recognize that other types of rape go on.

I know this is "man bites dog" case - which is one of the reasons it is posted here (well, other than to rile up some controversy with gender politics).

As to why the newspaper would print it (as they don't usually print this sort of thing) perhaps it was a warning about a gang of women going about preying on individuals that are out and about alone or incapacitated late at night, and this teen was the only male so far that was willing to go through with reporting the incident for a possible arrest.

Haele

FightForMichigan

(232 posts)
227. Fascinating
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 05:30 PM
Apr 2013

I'm fascinated by some people's responses, particularly the ones who say a man can't get raped unless he's turned on.

Two things on that.

First, it's not as difficult as you think. The human body responds to touch. A woman who is being raped will lubricate, too. It's a physiological response and says nothing, NOTHING, about willingness. And then, there are ways to force an erection - ie, constriction, drugs, etc.

Second, and most mind-blowingly, why do so many people think that a male rape has to involve him getting an erection at all? Men can be raped exactly the same way as women -- by being penetrated.

In fact, this is such an obvious blind spot that I think it says a lot about male privilege right there. I don't mean it in a "look at what bad people you are" sense at all. But just the fact that such a thing is literally unimaginable to some people is amazing.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
235. Rape is horrible no matter who the perpetrator is.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 06:13 PM
Apr 2013

I hope they catch the perpetrators who did this. No one should have to endure rape. It is horrible.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
244. Another MRA-style response, if the sexes were reversed:
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 08:56 PM
Apr 2013
How do we know he didn't do it willingly with these women, then the next morning when he sobered up, he realized he might be made fun of for having sex with fat women, so decided to say he was raped? Men are shamed for being attracted to overweight women, he might have simply regretted his decision and cried rape out of shame and guilt. The reports don't say when he reported it. Did he go straight to the police?
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