Is it coincidental that both Reagan and Thatcher had dementia?

[BlueStreak]

We know that Reagan's dementia was well advanced by the end of his term, which means there were undoubtedly mental processes not working correctly by the time he took office in 1981.

In Thatcher's case, the onset was revealed a decade after she left office.

What we really don't know is how early this disease starts degrading brainpower. It is clear that the effect is not uniform. Some brain functions are clearly affected earlier and more severely than others.

Given these things, I am surprised that I have not seen any discussion here or elsewhere about the possible connections between this brain robbing disease and the kinds of policies both of these people followed.

Maybe they were both just naturally dark, hollow people without a lick of empathy. But I wonder if their disease played a part.

[defacto7]

1. It's not a communicable disease

Which really is a good thing for them!!!

[WinkyDink]

2. No. They were just both old.

[ellenfl]

76. i don't know. i think clones might have the same characteristics and defects. eom

[BainsBane]

3. The coincidence is they both grew old

As many people you know will eventually develop dementia as well.

[Bryn]

4. Alz's is very very sad to watch

Dementia ... I watched my beloved mother start to lose herself over years. It's dignity robbing disease. She passed on last November. No one can understand this unless they have watched their loved ones suffer from this disease, be their caretakers... I would not wish this on my own enemies..not even Margaret and Reagan.

[BlueStreak]

8. I'm not wishing it on anybody. They had it.

And I have lived through this with several people close to me. One thing I know for sure is that the disease starts a long. long time before anybody is willing to admit it is happening. It is very ease to rationalize away "forgetfulness" and things like that.

It was obvious to anybody with any perception whatsoever that Reagan's tank was empty by 1986. By then Nancy was at his side at every event, finish his incoherent sentences. Based on my personal experiences, I'd say it was likely that significant deterioration was happening long before 1980.

In Thatcher's case, the disease was publicly acknowledges by 2005, but had been known by the family long before that. That tells me that there was probably some impairment by the end of her PM term in 1990.

My question is not whether this is a cruel disease. My question is not whether is is sad to see somebody turn in to a mental vegetable. Obviously it is sad.

My question is could this have played a part in their thinking about public policies? If part of their brain was starting to slip away, could this have been a factor?

[Kelvin Mace]

52. The unforgivable issue here

is that the Doctors and staff KNEW Reagan was no longer mentally competent, yet they used his as a puppet to put forward their own agendas. They recklessly endangered the nation rather than admit the problem and turn the presidency over to Bush.

[Butterbean]

61. Agreed. Anyone with their finger on the potential button needs to be mentally competent.

Too bad nothing can be legally done to them now.

[BlueStreak]

72. And the press surely knew as well

This is different from the unwritten rule that you never shot a photo of FDR in a wheelchair. The wheelchair didn't affect FDR's ability to perform the duties of the office. But obviously Reagan was mentally incompetent well before the end of his term. The press has a responsibility here, and they failed the country.

[calimary]

5. I found it karmic and MOST satisfying when I read an article about his fading days

Last edited Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:23 AM - Edit history (1)

in comfort (of course) at home. There was a passage detailing reagan seated in an easy chair, in one corner of a dark little library-like "office" room at home in Bel-Air, with the curtains closed, blanket draped over him, Nancy fussing over him as usual, and aides coming and going. Of course his Secret Service detail was close by. There was a description of a snow globe with the White House in it, on one of the shelves among the memorabilia in the room. And at one point he was described as looking at it (or somebody showing it to him) and saying "does that have something to do with me?"

Gotta admit - I found that EXQUISITELY satisfying in a karmic kind of way. Whether you admired or despised him (count me among the latter) you have to admit he had one helluva great life. Movie star, TV star, SAG president, commercial spokesman (hell, GE BUILT his fancy all-electric Pacific Palisades home for him - in which he did a lot of commercials as a GE spokesman), nationwide radio commentator, fawning rich people crawling all over him and showering him with their support and sponsorship, California governor, President of the US for two terms, fancy ranch in Santa Barbara, fancy home in Bel-Air that his rich friends bought for him, etc etc etc. What a life! An amazing life in anybody's book. A life ANYONE would be proud to have lived. Rich, famous, popular, protected, fawned over, cleaned up after, able to sell and shill and smooth-talk with the best of 'em, downright worshipped by far too many. I STILL burn with hatred for this bastard even as I write this.

And in the end, it was all taken from him. All his memories. All gone. GONE! He lived long enough to lose it ALL. All the King's horses and all the King's men. That big-ass fancy-ass hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars' worth of presidential library with a whole fucking Oval Office replica AND an Air Force One in it, and a BIG slab of the Berlin Wall, surrounded by hot-'n'-cold-running sycophants 24 hours a day, and the statues of him and the buildings and roads and schools and monuments named after him, and the photos of him with Gorbachev and Thatcher and every other world leader AND fabulous awards and honors from Queen Elizabeth and the Pope, and a gravesite of elegance and splendor and opulence and 24-hour guards - none of which he ever had to pay for. And he was ultimately robbed of it ALL. Unable to remember ANY of it. To have lived that kind of life - at the VERY VERY VERY TOP of the human ziggurat, and he was unable to remember ANY of it. It was all wiped away. In the end, none of it existed for him anymore. Or meant a THING. Like it never even happened. It was all taken away from him while he sat there, increasingly mindless, helpless, and drooling. And - HORROR OF HORRORS!!!! OUT of the spotlight!!!!! Fade to black. It ended in NOTHINGNESS. While he was still alive to "see" it, more or less. ALL of it taken away, leaving him a pathetic irrelevant helpless shell.

Miserably small, and VERY cold comfort, but somehow I found it beautifully fitting and profoundly well-deserved in a karmic sense. How appropriate that it should end that way for him.

[JDPriestly]

7. Beautifully written and so true.

[calimary]

9. Thank you.

[Lugnut]

14. +100! n/t

[Floyd_Gondolli]

31. There's one problem with all of that

He got to LIVE the life. He got to ride high. He had all of the above and more, which is something most of us don't ever get to experience. And what's more, he did a helluva lot of a damage to people in this country in the process before he was robbed of it all.

[calimary]

41. True enough. All we get is a very small consolation.

The best thing about ronald reagan? He's dead. Wish his policies were, too.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

45. BTW

Your description was really good though. I had never heard that item about the snow globe. Chilling, fascinating, etc.

[calimary]

47. I forget where I read that, dammit! But it made a powerful impression.

They show him a snow globe of the White House and he responds with - "does that have something to do with me?"

Stunning!!!

[Kelvin Mace]

51. I am afraid that I cannot take pleasure in the suffering of others

no matter how much I dislike them.

[calimary]

66. Fair enough. There are just a few people I've observed through my life - over whom I'm having

a serious struggle.

WANT to be forgiving.

WANT to try to understand.

WANT to find some way to excuse the heinous behavior or the damage done to so many others.

WANT to be compassionate.

And yet, I stumble on reagan. I'll have the same trouble when bush and cheney kick the bucket. Some things are just hard to forgive, and there is indeed a part of me that hopes those causing others to suffer will finally taste some of that suffering for themselves. With some of them, they can only know compassion after they meet pain and suffering face-to-face.

Like rob portman - who's only come around to accept marriage equality after he learned his own son is gay. They only find their way to tolerance when it punches them personally in the nose, or the gut.

And yes, it's not for me to judge. Self-comforting maybe. But it just galls me. Another one of those situations in which we tried to warn people. And nobody listened - too busy being enthralled by that darling, avuncular "uncle ronnie" and his head-shaking, eyebrow flirting, crooked-smiling "aw shucks" demeanor that lulled everyone to sleep like a cup of warm sweet milk before bedtime. And then when everybody figured he was just this darling, harmless, gentle, loving, warm, and approachable man, he came around with his fiends who he made sure were well-positioned to start tearing down the social safety net, the understanding about the social contract we've had between the governed and the government, and just ripped it to shred. And people all across the country, and the world, suffered for it. Worse still, never was heard a discouraging word around uncle ronnie. And it never cost him anything - until the end.

I don't celebrate it. I know what a cross it is, to bear, when a loved one has Alzheimer's. My husband's mother deteriorated like that in her last years. We watched her slowly slip away, helpless. But she had never hurt and betrayed so many on such a grand scale so that so few could have so much more.

As I said, I struggle every day of my life with forgiveness - and how it sometimes eludes me.

[PCIntern]

65. Yes...to all of that.

Well done...thanks!

[Butterbean]

6. I'm in the beginning stages of dealing with dementia with my father.

His has, unfortunately, progressed very rapidly, and he's still young (66). I has been hell. I can't count the number of times I've cried or had panic attacks or just general meltdowns over dealing with the fallout from what is happening to him.

He's one of the most left-leaning people I know. His dementia hasn't affected his political leanings. It has, unfortunately, affected much more important things like his ability to drive, to remember to take his meds, to remember what his own diagnosis is, to remember entire conversations, and other fun things like that.

I, too, wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. It's hell, and my stomach is in knots right now just writing about it.

[Blaukraut]

28. I was exactly where you are two years ago, when my mom started her rapid decline into dementia

Small signs were there already, but because she lives in Germany, and I only got to see her once or twice a year, I didn't notice them during my visits. Then, during our visit for her 80th birthday two years ago, she slid into the disease incredibly fast, and had to be put into a nursing home only six months later. She is still there, with her disease being at a relative standstill. She's in a wheelchair, incontinent, does not recognize anyone, and cannot have coherent conversations anymore. Fine motor functions have also declined.

Guilt and grief had me experience panic attacks as well. I was on meds until this past winter.

She was an extremely intelligent, liberal, and caring woman. Her illness turned her inward, made her more selfish, less able to listen to others. These were early signs nobody recognized. People just thought she was turning into a lonely old woman. I can see how an elected official with Alzheimer's or Dementia in the beginning stages can be seen as a right wing crazy. Some of the personality changes can definitely mimic that. In Reagan's and Thatcher's cases, the illness only amplified their natural personalities.

[Butterbean]

58. Boy oh, boy...the anger issues sure do rear their ugly heads, don't they?

I feel like I'm walking on eggshells around him all the time, as anything sets him off. Rational thought seems to have gone completely out the window.

[Kelvin Mace]

53. I am so sorry

you are suffering with this.

The disease is cruel, unfair, and very hard on the people around the victim, more so than the victim in many ways.

[Butterbean]

56. Thanks. I'm learning to deal. It was shocking how fast he declined, which was unexpected.

I don't know, maybe a slow decline would have been worse. Who knows. It all sucks.

[TimberValley]

10. Your theory only makes sense if conservatives have dementia at a higher rate than liberals.

"I am surprised that I have not seen any discussion here or elsewhere about the possible connections between this brain robbing disease and the kinds of policies both of these people followed. "



I would suspect that liberal people who grow elderly are just as likely, statistically and medically, to develop dementia.

[BlueStreak]

12. Well, we haven't had any other Presidents with dementia recently.

Jimmy Carter was on The Daily Show tonight and at age 88, he seems about as sharp as ever.

The question isn't about the population in general.

The question is about two specific people who both pushed really cruel, Draconian, heartless policies that hundreds of millions of people have suffered under for 30 years. And they both were found to have dementia. I just ask if there could be a connection.

One thing is for certain. As President, Reagan did not have the mental capacity to fully understand the consequences of what his policies would do to America. It is debatable that he might have had the brainpower in 1981, but he didn't have it by 1986. That much is absolutely certain.

[TimberValley]

21. What if............

"The question is about two specific people who both pushed really cruel, Draconian, heartless policies that hundreds of millions of people have suffered under for 30 years. And they both were found to have dementia. I just ask if there could be a connection. "


So, what if, say, two politicians pushed very liberal policies based off of social welfare and benefited many people, and both suffered from dementia? Would there be a connection then?

[BlueStreak]

23. If it happens, I'l consider it. The thesis is ...

their diminished state impaired their ability to foresee the consequences of their policies. As a result, they pushed policies that made sense to a 3rd-grader.

I doubt that we would see the opposite case. But it certainly is possible that somebody of diminished capacity could push a policy of unilaterally disarming, free heroin to everybody, etc. I can't see the press sitting by quietly letting that happen, as they did as Reagan turned to a vegetable before their eyes.

[byeya]

43. Medical authorities tell oldsters to do crossword puzzles; take college classes; develop new hobbies

anything to exercise and stretch your mind.
Many RWers rely on rote phrases and sentences when responding to questions about policy options. I can see where it's possible
that having an ossified response, no matter how popular to your audience, could lead to parts of the brain falling into disuse.

I think this may be a fertile area for research.
Didn't Jesse Helms have the same disorder?

[Cleita]

71. From personal experience, I was getting forgetful, and getting on the treadmill

and doing weights did more to bring back my memory and thinking processes than all of the above. I'm not saying don't do crossword puzzles. I do and I garden and I write fiction. But hard exercise seems to have done me the most good.

[graham4anything]

57. I am not into conspiracy theories, however, let's say I was

We only know what we are told

And it was mighty convieninet that it enabled ZERO questioning over everything and part of the reason that never will be gone back into (along with the ACLU getting oliver north on a technicality from jail, and the pardons).

or as Arte Johnson on laugh in used to say
"Verrrrry interesting..."

BTW, not on the same people,
once in NYC, there was a mafia guy who was said to be in the same state and he wandered the streets in his bathrobe.

for years mumbling to himself, lost, not knowing where he was going.

Until they finally convicted him and he revealed it was an act.

Nothing to do with the two above, but it is on record.

Would some unsophisticated people like Thatcher and Reagan, pull that off.
Nah, it couldn't happen.
And I don't believe in conspiracy theories.
(conspiracy is a separate issue).

Sure though was COINCIDENTAL and convienient.

and this has NOTHING at all to do with any other relatives or people we all know.
Those in my circle though, did not last anywhere as long as either of these two did.
It was always much quicker.

[graham4anything]

62. I am not into conspiracy theories, however, what scans? Who released them?

The same people who said there were WMDs in Iraq?

But I am not saying the official story is not true.It would be far too many people to keep quiet about it(look how the Miami Dade county rioteers all bragged over what they did very quickly afterward).

I was Just answering the OP and the OP reply by thinking alittle outside the box.

The one thing I find odd is how little coverage is of Thatcher, here in the USA

[BlueCheese]

13. Yes. It is a coincidence.

[notgoinback]

15. ...by the END of his term?

My cousin was living in Paris during the early 80's, when Reagan arrived for a state visit. She still remembers an incident that exposed his already, severely deteriorating memory. During one brief press conference, a French reporter asked our then-President ( in English), "Mr. Reagan, do you have grandchildren?". It was a simple question, yet the most powerful man in the world just stood there, looking as confused and bewildered as a quiz show contestant trying to name the capital of New Zealand!

[calimary]

16. Welcome to DU, notgoinback!

Glad you're here!

I have a friend whose mother was sufficiently well-connected that she was invited to a very chi-chi private reception for reagan while he was president. I don't remember how far into it the reception occurred - but, I seem to recall it was sometime during his first term. She said she was absolutely thunderstruck by what she witnessed. She said she watched Nancy leading him around the room, hooked pinkie finger-to-pinkie finger, and that he was visibly "a doddering old man." I remember her saying how she felt so shaken and disturbed by the sight of it.

[BlueStreak]

18. It was the elephant in the room.

It became absolutely obvious by his second term. He muddled through the reelection somehow. He beat Mondale about 60/40 so he was never really forced out of his protective cocoon. But by 1986, he was a veggie. He couldn't complete a sentence on his own. I don't recall a single public appearance where he didn't have Nancy on his elbow finishing all his sentences.

But our wonderful press just ignored the fact that the most powerful man in the world had no functioning brain.

Mondale was surely aware of this and must have decided that he was going to lose either way, so it was best to just keep his mouth shut.

But my question really gets to public policy. The Reagan years (and the Thatcher years) resulted in radical right wing policies. I am wondering what role their mental deterioration played in that -- the idea being that in the early stages of the disease, they would have been less able to reason through the consequences of their policies. In Reagan's case, it sounds like he was pretty far gone, even as he took office in 1981. It is probably fair to say that for most of his years, he wasn't actually the President. These policies were pushed by others who propped his up to sell them.

The question is probably more pertinent of Lady Thatcher, who didn't show such obvious signs of dementia while in office.

[Boomerproud]

60. The obvious point in your post is that the media was complicent.

"On Bended Knee", a brilliant book tell the whole story. As I didn't live there I don't know how Thatcher fared in the PR department over in the UK.

[MelungeonWoman]

17. I never believed Reagan had alzheimer's.

At the time of Reagan's death, the average life expectancy after diagnosis was 7 years. Reagan lived over 20 years after his diagnosis and people were claiming to see signs of his dementia for a decade before that. In my opinion it afforded him a measure of privacy that was unduly warranted.

As for his policies, I'll say this: Reagan surely accomplished his mission to improve the status of himself and people like himself at the expense of people like myself. it seems to me he knew exactly what he was doing.

[Kelvin Mace]

55. The average is seven years

which means some people survive longer, some shorter, so I see nothing disproving the diagnosis.

Also, it certainly helps your longevity when you have access to the best health care taxpayer money can buy. If everyone suffering from the disease had Reagan's care, the average would probably double, or perhaps triple.

[cherokeeprogressive]

63. My Grandma lived about 20 years after diagnosis. n/t

[LeftishBrit]

19. I am pretty sure that Maggie didn't have dementia when in office

Her type of dementia was different from Reagan's. He had Alzheimer's, which can begin insidiously and progress slowly. She had a series of small strokes which affected her cognition -before eventually having a bigger stroke that killed her. Before her strokes, there was no sign of any cognitive problem.

Also she was sharp, politically shrewd and industrious as a Prime Minister, even if her industry was entirely in the wrong causes. Reagan was obviously unable to work a full day; she was constantly on the go, getting only 5 hours of sleep per night. Reagan was obviously largely 'handled' by others; she was a control freak unable or unwilling to delegate. He made lots of gaffes and verbal fluffs, which on hindsight should have been a warning sign in someone who had, after all, once been an actor and therefore, whatever his overall IQ, must have at one time had the ability to learn and remember his lines. She made no more such fluffs than any other politician.

She was not lacking in a brain. She was lacking in a heart.

[BlueStreak]

24. I'll buy that.

[Kolesar]

29. "Vascular dementia" -- that was my father's fate

Then a big stroke killed him a few years later.

[siligut]

40. Yes, succinct and accurate

And you made clear the difference between dementia and Alzheimer's.

[Heywood J]

75. Good points.

I don't think that, in the Westminster system, you can hide dementia or Alzheimer's in nearly the same way as with the Presidential system where handlers can delegate tasks and compensate or hide someone. The Prime Minister is still a member of Parliament and has to participate in Parliamentary business, in addition to the duties of state and then those of party leader on top. It's a demanding job with a high workload.

I can't in any way see Reagan going through any of that at any point in his career. She was heartless, he was senile.

[slackmaster]

20. Yes, it is a coincidence.

I hope you never have to deal with a relative with dementia.

[BlueStreak]

25. I have. Several times. What's your point?

[slackmaster]

30. I find your speculation in the OP odd and troubling.

Maybe they were both just naturally dark, hollow people without a lick of empathy. But I wonder if their disease played a part.

I'm not convinced that either of them lacked empathy. I think they were both faced with stagnant or declining societies, and sought to apply tough medicine.

Not the medicine that you or I would have applied, but I can't accept the characterization of either as dark or hollow. I am not one to try to explain away differences of opinion that I have with others as the product of their mental illness. Most of the time when I disagree with someone, I simply say that we disagree.

[BlueStreak]

35. As they say, your concern is duly noted

[Duer 157099]

26. 1) AD, if that is what we are talking about, begins decades before diagnosis

so you are correct in thinking that the changes to the brain are happening many, many years before an official diagnosis is made.

2) While the primary target of AD is the hippocampus, which is involved in memory, there are other brain regions affected. I would ask whether the amygdala is affected, because that brain structure is involved in fear, and has been shown to be overactive in people with right-leaning political views. Which makes sense. Malfunction of the amygdala can be involed in paranoia and many other manifestations of fear, which the right wing certainly exhibits.

So, it is fair to be asking these sorts of questions, imho.

People with AD certainly undergo personality changes, and these changes are not just related to memory. They can start having wild mood swings, which they have never had in their life. In fact, personality changes are one of the early markers, before memory deficits manifest.

[BlueStreak]

27. Thank you. That's the kind of thing I was was wondering about

And as LeftishBrit pointed out, Thatcher's medical situation was quite different from Reagan's so any connection is probably coincidental.

[Duer 157099]

33. Yeah, I could see that was what you were asking

People really jump to conclusions around here before really trying to understand what an OP is trying to say. Oh well, it happens to all of us, both as OPs and responders.

One point I made that I should have corrected, about the personality changes: I said it manifests before memory changes, but that isn't actually true. The memory issues are *the* earliest manifestation, but they are almost always written off as "senior moments" etc. Personality changes are the most *obvious* early sign, imho. Nobody writes that off to "senior moments" for some reason. Some people think the personality changes are the result of frustration with the memory issues, but I suspect not. I think it will be shown to be related to malfunction of the amygdala, if it hasn't already been shown. I just don't know. But it's an educated guess.

[BlueStreak]

36. To the indignation trolls, if one mentions sex, then one is automaticlaly a sexist

If one mentions a person recently deceased, then one is automatically dancing on their grave.

If one challenges any points from the gay community, one is automatically a homophobe.

If one questions how Hillary might respond to a particular situation, one is automatically a Hillary-hater.

If one raises questions about a disease pathology, one is automatically insensitive.

Fortunately, not everyone here operates entirely on knee-jerk reactions, and I appreciate that.

[byeya]

44. As i wrote above, I think you are asking an honest question based on verified observations.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

32. My observation is that dementia causes the real person to emerge uncensored

If the person was a mean and selfish type but managed to hide it for years, the dementia strips away the internal censor and makes the essential meanness visible in all its ugliness.

My stepfather, on the other hand, maintained his warm and generous but slightly worrywart nature until he could no longer communicate.

[Duer 157099]

34. I might disagree

Personality is shaped not only by nurture, but by the biochemistry of one's brain. There have been studies, I'm sure you know about, where damage to specific brain regions results in dramatic personality changes.

One of the most famous cases was that of Phineas Gage

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage

Phineas P. Gage (1823–1860) was an American rail­road con­struc­tion fore­man now remem­bered for his im­prob­a­ble[C] sur­vival of an accident in which a large iron rod was driven com­plete­ly through his head, destroy­ing much of his brain's left front­al lobe, and for that injury's re­port­ed effects on his per­son­al­ity and behav­ior, effects so profound—at least for a time[2]—that friends saw him as "no longer Gage".

Long called "the American Crowbar Case"—once termed "the case which more than all others is calc­u­lat­ed to ex­cite our won­der, im­pair the val­ue of prog­no­sis, and even to sub­vert our phys­i­ol­og­ical doctrines"[3]—Phineas Gage in­flu­enced nine­teenth-century dis­cus­sion about the mind and brain, par­tic­u­lar­ly debate on ce­re­bral local­iz­ation,[4] and was perhaps the first case sug­gest­ing that damage to spe­cif­ic parts of the brain might affect per­sonality.

...

The equilibrium or balance, so to speak, between his intellectual faculties and animal propensities, seems to have been destroyed. He is fitful, irreverent, indulging at times in the grossest profanity (which was not pre­vi­ous­ly his custom), manifesting but little deference for his fellows, impatient of restraint or advice when it conflicts with his desires, at times pertinaciously obstinate, yet capricious and vacillating, devising many plans of future operations, which are no sooner arranged than they are abandoned in turn for others appearing more feasible. A child in his intellectual capacity and manifestations, he has the animal passions of a strong man. Previous to his injury, although untrained in the schools, he possessed a well-balanced mind, and was looked upon by those who knew him as a shrewd, smart businessman, very energetic and persistent in executing all his plans of operation. In this regard his mind was radically changed, so decidedly that his friends and acquaintances said he was "no longer Gage".[S]

It, imho, is misinformed to suggest that one's "true" personality emerges with brain damage.

[BlueStreak]

38. Case in point, I had a coworker a few years back

Last edited Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:08 PM - Edit history (1)

I'll refer to him a John to keep the text simpler. The President of the company hired me, mainly to replace John, or at least to give him some options to move John into an area where he might do less damage.

This move had come about because in recent years, John had become testy and really unpleasant to work with. That was the only John I ever knew, and he didn't disappoint, especially as he came to realize I would be taking over his most central duties. He got progressively more unpleasant and finally the President had to dismiss him.

It was 18 months later that we learned John been diagnosed with Alzheimer's, and then he died 2 or 3 years after that.

I was curious about that, considering John had been with the company for 15 years before I came along. I started making inquiries of those who knew him throughout those years. And I was really surprised to learn that, while he was never a warm-and-fuzzy people-person, John had not been difficult to work with over the years. I do not believe Alzheimer's brought out his true personality. I believe his prickly personality developed out of frustration as he was losing his ability to work effectively.

But I guess the opposite case could also be true. It is possible that his "natural" personality was extremely prickly, and before the disease he was able to cover that up with some basic social skills.

I prefer to believe the former.

[Duer 157099]

39. There is also the issue of disinhibition

this is a well-known issue in AD. People lose inhibitions, and the ability to control things that they formerly could control. And it can manifest as you describe.

But it begs the question: which is cause, which is effect? Is "control" a part of our personality? It's a complex issue.

[hunter]

77. The "Dirty Old Men" in nursing homes.

Not many of them were gropers and flashers before their brains began to fail.

It may never have been a behavior they had to inhibit.

Sure, for some, it is their inhibitions failing, or even that they don't care anymore because they know the end is near and there will be no consequences.

But for others it's little more than short circuits and failing connections.

[bemildred]

42. I think they were just "dark, hollow people without a lick of empathy".

It's not that rare.

[NCTraveler]

46. If a President is willing to sign right wing free trade acts....

What would you diagnose them with.

Two conservative politicians have dementia and you think it is an explanation for their policies. There is a reason this isn't discussed here. It shouldn't be a surprise.

[sadbear]

48. Anecdotally, my only grandparent to die from dementia-related illness was

my right-wing maternal grandfather. My other three grandparents were liberal or moderate and died suddenly.

[Kelvin Mace]

49. Reagan's mental deterioration began to manifest

noticeably toward the end of his first term. It became more pronounced in his second, so much so that if he had been treated like any normal person, he would have been "relieved of duty" since you cannot have a person making life or death decisions impaired to the degree Reagan was.

I think it was coincidental that they both had similar conditions, since the longer you live the more likely you are to suffer dementia.

[treestar]

50. Probably is a coincidence

Many people from all walks of life end up with it.

It is interestingly suggestive, as these two were so alike. But probably just a coincidence.

[DonViejo]

54. Alzheimer's Facts and Figures

Alzheimer's Association 2013 Alzheimer's Disease Facts and Figures


Quick Facts


Alzheimer's disease is the sixth leading cause of death in the United States.

More than 5 million Americans are living with the disease.

1 in 3 seniors dies with Alzheimer's or another dementia.

In 2012, 15.4 million caregivers provided more than 17.5 billion hours of unpaid care valued at $216 billion.

Nearly 15% of caregivers for people with Alzheimer's or another dementia are long-distance caregivers.

In 2013, Alzheimer's will cost the nation $203 billion. This number is expected to rise to $1.2 trillion by 2050.

The number of Americans with Alzheimer's disease and other dementias will grow as the U.S. population age 65 and older continues to increase. By 2025, the number of people age 65 and older with Alzheimer's disease is estimated to reach 7.1 million—a 40 percent increase from the 5 million age 65 and older currently affected. By 2050, the number of people age 65 and older with Alzheimer's disease may nearly triple, from 5 million to a projected 13.8 million, barring the development of medical breakthroughs to prevent, slow or stop the disease.

[nickchorey]

64. Crazy

One of Ronnies first acts was to destroy the Air Controllers Union. Then he shut down insane aslyms, which ironically it was a self defeating move. He could have used professional medical, psychological assistance rather than letting him continue os POTUS. Question; When will Bush, cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz (sp) be tried as war criminals?

[hrmjustin]

68. Welcome to DU nickchorey!

[Cleita]

70. I keep asking that last question too.

Welcome to DU.

[Rhiannon12866]

78. Make it three! *sigh*

And welcome to DU, nickchorey! It's great to have you with us!

[Lint Head]

67. No. And it's not coincidental that they ruined the lives of many British and American citizens.

[Cleita]

69. I wonder if being stubborn and intractable is a sign that people will

develop it in old age. Someone should do a study.

[BlueStreak]

73. I don't know, but BECOMING stubborn and intractable

can definitely correlate with the early course of the disease -- possibly long before a formal diagnosis.

I'm not sure that aspect of Reagan's personality changed much from the days when he was Governor of California. I would assume that in the Governor days, there was little, if any, impairment related to Alzheimer's. Although, by the time he ended his second term as Governor (1975) that was only about 7 years before the signs were starting to become apparent to the casual observer.

[Cleita]

74. I knew a well known actor who belonged to the Actors Guild when Reagan was President of the Guild

from 1947 to 1952. Even though he was a Democrat back then, his actions at the Guild gained him many enemies among the actors. The Actors Guild is a union that protected the actors from the studios yet all his actions were in favor of the studios. They had bought him. So he was a corporate whore as far back as then. When he ran for governor, this same actor admonished everyone within hearing shot of him to not vote him is as governor because he was not on the side of the working class and would sell them out to big business. Too bad not enough people knew him. So I think he was always in favor of corporations over the people who worked for them. So it seems he was pretty intractable even back then.