I'm fine with the politics of chained CPI

[gulliver]

I'm against the chained CPI, but I have no problem with Republican-voting seniors and near-seniors getting a cold. blunt message. If they hadn't voted for Republicans, Obama would not have put chained CPI on the table. It's there for Republicans, not Dems. I actually think that message is coming across extremely well.

I don't think there is a chance in hell of chained CPI passing. I don't even think House Republicans are that stupid.

[TheKentuckian]

1. You shouldn't be, they will either pass it or hang it around our necks.

Hell, maybe both. When dealing with an opposition with unlimited hypocrisy and gall with substantial control of a corporate media trying to sell nuance is dangerous, at the very least.

The opposition has made plenty of hay on lies with way less (or even less than zero) to substantiate it.

Your target audience sports signs that say "get your government hands off my Medicare", isn't aware Hawaii is a state, spent 4-5 years agonizing over a "real" birth certificate despite having it posted from here to Kingdom Come, and hates the guy who is actually making the proposal.

Why on God's green Earth do you think this gambit will work? Based on what past performance?

[gulliver]

3. Nope. I'm fine with it.

Like I say, it's not going to happen, and I am happy to have Republican seniors wondering what the hell they were thinking when they voted Republican. I don't see how Republicans make hay out of it. "I would have voted for chained CPI, except Obama wouldn't let the rich keep their tax loopholes?"

Midterms are all about seniors. True, the ones who voted Republican are likely the types to not know Hawaii is a state. You could argue that chained CPI is much more difficult to grasp than that. But somehow I think they will get chained CPI.

[newthinking]

11. We weaken the argument long term by using

the opposition's "talking points".

The public will not see it that way. They will be led to believe that both parties agree and accept that this must happen.

[Larrylarry]

14. "It's not going to happen"

That can't be.

I just read they Obama has already cut SS.

Read it right here on the DU

[unblock]

2. The only chained CPI politics I'm fine with is stfu

Not you in particular, I just mean that the entire issue should just go away. It's intellectually and morally indefensible and will cause generations of needless suffering.

[doc03]

4. No matter what Obama does it seems someone has

an excuse for it or it is some three dimensional chess game bullshit.

[Skittles]

9. CORRECT

[alcibiades_mystery]

5. Chained CPI will pass for people with a specified level of non Social Security income

The question is the level, and how it is assessed over time (i.e., at 88 as opposed to at 68).

[cbrer]

6. Hope you're right.

The long term goals/strategies of American politics seem less clear to me.

Given the emergence of a police state, continued lack of reaction to gun violence combined with mood altering drugs, and legislation pointing to a greater union with the Plutocrats, I'm not as sure.

But I really hope you're right.

[phiddle]

7. 2.3 million signatures petitioning Obama to retract this say that you're wrong.

Most people (like those 2.3 miliion) will look no farther than the one who first proposed cutting SS, that is, president Obama. Republicans didn't ask for this initiative, and are already preparing ads to blame the president, with total justification. Any chance we would have to make inroads with the elderly will be gone, and every Dem office-seeker will have this hung around their neck in the election. No, the politics are heavily against us.

[bhikkhu]

8. They've been asking for it since the 90's

...only now they have to decide if the price (tax reform, to name the biggest obligatory trade-off) is worth the cost. The odds of it passing in any form are pretty steep, but at least the repugs who come out against cutting social security can't keep campaigning on cutting social security.

[newthinking]

12. Extend that argument. Just give in on everything

and the Republicans will have nothing to run on.

No, actually it works in the opposite manner. Stand up strongly leading with an alternative vision. Lead people into fighting for a different set of values. Sure, it will be a hell of a fight, but if we would only stand our vision effectively against them. They are actually as weak as they have ever been in my life! Yest we are as afraid as hell and losing battles left and right..

[ljm2002]

10. Let me see if I have this right...

...you say seniors who voted Republican need a "cold blunt message".

So they're getting it from a Democratic President. And you don't think the House Republicans are "that stupid" to vote for chained CPI.

And somehow you see this waking up the Republican-voting seniors so they'll vote for the Democrats? When it was a Democratic President who proposed chained CPI, and it was Republicans in Congress who batted it down?

What is this, some kind of double-reverse-psychology? Because I'm not seeing how you get from Point A to Point B here.

[newthinking]

13. Reinforce the vision that there are no alternatives.. duh,

now *both* parties are saying that we don't have alternatives but to cut our remaining social programs.

[dawg]

15. Unless something happens to drastically change the narrative in Washington ...

chained CPI can, and will, pass. Maybe not this time, but the fact that a Democratic president put it in his budget gives it an air of inevitability.

[TimberValley]

16. Doesn't make sense. Chained CPI would affect seniors of both parties. n/t.

[LWolf]

17. My senior citizen, social security dependent mother

voted for Obama twice.

Cold, blunt message: I'm fine with you shouldering the pain this is bringing her, and every other senior in this nation as you try to rationalize it.

[Armstead]

18. 20 Dimensional Chess?

[gulliver]

19. Quick answers to some of the counterposts above.

I pretty much anticipated all of the above counter-arguments...at least those posted so far.

Three-dimensional, 20-dimensional, double reverse psychology chess — That "argument" is rhetorical shorthand for what we are to assume is a confident, nuanced point. I see it a lot here unfortunately. It kind of reeks, and I wish I saw less of it. It's a little reminiscent of George W. Bush's stance toward nuance. Think about it. It really is like that. Sorry.

And besides, what I am trying to say could not be more straightforward. It isn't nuanced at all. You might disagree with it, because it so completely disagrees with your own concept, but that doesn't make it wrong or even implausible. It's actually a fairly obvious point.

Excuses for anything President Obama does — That is another "argument" that is frequently made, and again I don't like it. It presumes that there is something to excuse, first of all, and there isn't. Second, the man just won re-election in a down economy. Third, he literally speaks for himself. Every time he talks he is president-level brilliant. He doesn't make the kind of "obviously dumb and will be politically catastrophic for Dems" kinds of mistakes that some people are quick to perceive him making. His performance so far more than justifies trusting his judgment as the home position.

Millions and zillions are against the chained CPI — Yup. Fine. Like I say, the message is getting out.

Seniors are dumb and won't get that it is the Republicans causing this — Nope. They will. Seniors will get that if there were no Republicans in Congress, the wealthy would be paying more in taxes, and there would be no more discussion of Social Security and Medicare cuts. Even Republican seniors get that. They may just think that they can afford to vote Republican for other issues. They can't.

[Armstead]

20. It's not dumb to blame the person/party proposing something

People tend to draw a straight line between proposals and proposers.

In this case, if people see a straight line when Democrats propose cuts, that is all that matters. They may agree with the cuts, oppose them or not care. But they will see the proposal as coming from the one doing the proposing.

They don't care about the nuances, or see it as a counter strategy or whatever. If they see it coming from Democrats, that is who they will see as responsible -- and justifiably so.

Those who oppose cuts and pay some attention to the issue will be disappointed and angry at Democrats for caving in or supporting a stance usually associated with Republicans. The inside baseball or (yes) 20 dimensional chess will be irrelevant to them.

And worse, it will wipe out the distinction between Dems and the GOP on the issue, advance the GOP claims and goals and give the GOP political ammo.