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Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 05:41 PM Apr 2013

Mr. President...if Beyonce' and Jay-Z can go to Cuba, the REST of us should get to go, too.

Let the embargo end, let the war end. Cuba is just another country now, and there's no good reason for us to still be at full hostilities with them.

Grown-ups KNOW when to let something go. It's time for THIS country to let the grudge against Cuba go. They never did anything to us, and taking corporate property at the price the corporations assessed its value at is NOT a crime against humanity.

Can we PLEASE move on on this?

11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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RZM

(8,556 posts)
1. Not a fan of the Castro system
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 05:48 PM
Apr 2013

I think it blows. I also think its days are numbered.

That being said, I agree 100 percent about the emargo. It's a relic of the Cold War. Time to move on.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
2. Why not instead ask him to declassify the material that provides the justification for continued
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 06:05 PM
Apr 2013

embargos?

Every President says they are going to loosen it up when it comes to Cuba. Then, they get in the Oval Office, get a briefing, and change their minds.

We, I think, will "move on this" when Fidel Castro is dead, dead, dead.

He did something that leaves him UNFORGIVEN. That's what I think.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
5. What he did was to NOT DIE in 1961.
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:22 PM
Apr 2013

This has never been about "democracy" or "human rights". It was about a small country successfully defying the greatest imperalist power the world has ever known.

Castro could have created a system that was LESS repressive than ours, and our country's leaders would still have been obsessed with overthrowing it, just because it gave the people of Cuba free university education and universal healthcare.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
6. Ho Chi Minh did a good job of that, and his crew killed a lot of Americans, to boot.
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:28 PM
Apr 2013

If "defying Imperialist power" is the criteria, we wouldn't be buying clothing Made In Vietnam now in US stores, would we, or going on tourist holidays to China Beach.

No, it's not because he didn't "die when told."

I don't know what it was, but that's just very silly. Overly dramatic, too.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
7. By contrast, Fidel hardly harmed any Americans at all.
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:33 PM
Apr 2013

Harmed the profit lines of a few, but that's about it.

The real issue is that, unlike even "communist" Vietnam, Cuba has never been broken, has never "learned its place".

Obama was the sort of leader who was supposed to be ABOVE imperialist vengeance. And he should also remember that, prior to the Revolution, Cuba was a total dead zone for people of color(and will be again if the Miami crowd ever takes the place over again).

MADem

(135,425 posts)
9. And there it is--there's something that we aren't "comprehending."
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:37 PM
Apr 2013

I think the USG comprehends it, though. It's the only explanation as to why Presidents say one thing as candidates, and another once they get "The Briefings."

Like I said, let's declassify the material vis-a-vis Cuba since the late fifties. The answer, I think, is in those files.

Edit--Vietnam certainly wasn't "broken" by us--not by a long shot. We bombed the shit out of them, they killed 58K of us and maimed many more, and they didn't break in the slightest. They bent like bamboo and persevered. We rather stupidly got mired in shit war and didn't have a damn exit strategy. We left all those swell infrastructure improvements behind (like Camh Ranh Bay) for the Russkies to enjoy. If that wasn't enough to get us all in an irrevocable huff, what is?

I think the answer is in a file in DC.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
10. With you on the declassification thing.
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:38 PM
Apr 2013

Is it really THAT important to keep the embargo in place until Fidel actually dies? Isn't it enough that he's retired now?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
11. What did he do? We talk about "exploding cigars" but is that bravado?
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:45 PM
Apr 2013

Or was it retaliation?

I don't know. I want to live long enough to find out, though. My curiosity is way up there....!

Zen Democrat

(5,901 posts)
4. I know a lot of people who been to Cuba in the past ten years. It's not hard to fly to Mexico City
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 07:00 PM
Apr 2013

and on to Cuba. Piece of cake. You just can't take a flight to Havana from the US.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
8. I have a nephew who went for ten days to play sports. He had a good time, but he missed the
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:34 PM
Apr 2013

modern conveniences. It was one of those People to People things.

You can go on some charters that fly direct--there aren't a crazy number of them but they do exist.

There are also the family flights--these have been reduced because not a lot of people are using them:


About 45 charter flights per week from the United States to Cuba are now programmed for the month of March, according to knowledgeable charter industry officials, compared to nearly 60 in September. Those flights are well booked, they added.

“There was the exaggerated image of a great explosion in American passengers. But the point now is that there are not enough passengers to maintain all those flights to Cuba,” said Pedro González Munné, a Miami businessman who monitors travel to the island.

U.S. companies involved in travel to Cuba began making feverish preparations in 2011 to expand the number of charter flight. Commercial flights to Cuba are not allowed because of the trade embargo, and charters require special U.S. government permits.

For one, the Obama administration had just announced that it would allow non-Cuban Americans to license educational trips to the island known as “people-to-people” visits. Cuban Americans can go at will on family reunification trips.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/02/06/3220723/flights-to-cuba-were-cutback.html#storylink=cpy
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