If you don't want people to call you a sociopath when you are dead

[La Lioness Priyanka]

Then don't fucking be a sociopath when you are alive.

you dont want people to say you caused death, destruction and despair in your obituaries, then don't fucking cause these things when you are alive.

(and yes, this was bothering me enough to make another thread about it)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

1. #reagan #thatcher #cheneysoonenough

[In_The_Wind]

68. !

Better gone!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. #lifeisaboutchoices

[bettyellen]

51. I officially love you Pri! And I usually hate hash tags, LOL !!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

58. i do too (hate hashtags and heart you)

[bettyellen]

60. Well fucking done! All the best to you and Lisa!

[arcane1]

3. It really is that simple

Lying about a dead person is one thing, but it's never too soon to tell the truth about them.

As Bill Maher once said, regarding Jerry Falwell, "Death isn't always sad."

[La Lioness Priyanka]

4. as someone said on facebook yesterday, sometimes birth is the real tragedy

[arcane1]

6. Wise words indeed!

[idwiyo]

45. That's brilliant!

[HiPointDem]

5. +1. she was a horrible woman. i only wish she could have suffered more while she was still aware

of her suffering like those she deliberately made suffer.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

7. its not very respectful to her victims to forget what they had to endure

because of her

[ashling]

35. Is there a way to rec individual posts within a thread?

That was a rhetorical question.

If you don't mind, I think I will start YET ANOTHER thread with this as the subject line.

[idwiyo]

44. +1

[lunasun]

61. Very well said!!

[boilerbabe]

8. people need to STFU with this religious nutbaggery about her innocent "spirit".

as if we are all required to adhere to everybodys flaky religious view.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. as i said on one of those threads: if someone can prove to me that her spirit exists

and that it is troubled and that it is specifically troubled because i called her a sociopath, i will reconsider doing so. in the meanwhile, let's not disrespect her victims.

[d_r]

14. I hope her spirit exists

and I hope it is troubled.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

15. her spirit would not care for what us lowly plebeians think about her

[d_r]

18. no

but I hope there were some irish hunger strikers, argentinian sailors, and coal miners spirits waiting to welcome her. thats what i mean by troubled. let me have the thought it makes me smile.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. lol. ok then

[liberalhistorian]

81. One thing that has always truly amazed

me about both her and Reagan is that they came from quite humble backgrounds, they were not, in any way, a part of the classes they so identified with, supported and championed in their careers. Such support came at the expense of millions, the very people from whom they, especially Thatcher, came. They both had some serious self-hatred going on there to be able to fuck their own people over like that again and again, over and over.

[BlueStreak]

56. I bet John Smith's (Labor leader) spirit is kicking Thatcher's spirit's butt right now

[tavalon]

74. I don't believe in Hell

and it's people like her that make me regret that lack of belief.

[ashling]

36. If her spirit exists there would be grounds for

a pro-active exorcism or something. In a sense that's what all of this is about -- casting out demons

[tavalon]

73. Why reconsider? It's profoundly correct.

Besides, a sociopath lacks feelings, so troubled isn't an accessible feeling for a living or dead sociopath. Ask the shrub while he still has the ability to form sentences (early onset dementia sucks but it's gonna suck a hell of a lot more for Laura) or Cheney. They might be pleased that you recognized their prowess as sociopaths.

[backscatter712]

32. If her vengeful spirit is roaming the Earth, I've got a suggestion:

[woo me with science]

9. Amen.

And that goes for anyone who supports unconscionable policies for profit.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

11. yup. agreed

[forestpath]

12. K&R

[nomorenomore08]

13. Could not have said it better!

[GoneOffShore]

16. Nailed it.

eom

[PD Turk]

17. +1000

Spot on. The reaction in the UK by the people she made miserable says it all IMO.

[tavalon]

75. They have moxy

We have Puritans. I think they made the right decision all those years ago to send away the religious zealots to the new America. Right for them, lousy for us.

[JDPriestly]

20. Well said. Good point.

[closeupready]

21. Yep. There's that thing called, "legacy".

If your record as a person of power is destitution for those who are implicated in your choices, then your legacy will be ... bad. People will not mourn your passing. Or will celebrate it.

Basic sociology 101.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

22. also commonsense 101

incidentally can we get a coffee sometime this week? i walk the dog in the wnyc park in greenpoint all the time and was thinking we can get a coffee while i walk the dog

[EOTE]

23. Damn straight.

The notion that we shouldn't speak ill of the dead is an idiotic one. Not to invoke Godwin, but does that apply to Hitler too? Some people are simply pieces of excrement, if their legacy is white washed, they can continue to do harm even after they die. Thatcher's legacy is one of hate, that shouldn't be forgotten.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. also it's really disrespectful to the victims of these people

if we pretend that they did no harm

[Jamastiene]

25. K&R

[rocktivity]

26. Reminds me what I posted here about Jerry Falwell

Last edited Sat Feb 22, 2014, 02:16 PM - Edit history (2)

&quot W)hile I honestly extend my deepest condolances to his friends and loved ones, I always have."


rocktivity

[CrispyQ]

27. That's how I've always looked at it. --nt

[ReRe]

28. To her credit and/or because of it...

...Maggie passed alone in a room at the Ritz, no family or state representative at her side, not a word of her impending death to the press. In South Africa, Nelson was in the hospital twice in the last month, and the world hung on the news for word of his health.

[tavalon]

77. My father died alone and no one found him for months

It wasn't pretty but it was pretty well what he deserved. Sometimes fairness is meted out in death.

[ReRe]

85. Agree...

Your last 7 words pretty much summed up what I was trying to say.

[tavalon]

87. Thank you for not putting in the almost obligatory

"Oh, he couldn't have been that bad.". He really, really was. And so was Margaret Thatcher.

[ReRe]

88. My "Dad" was no prize either... n/t

[caseymoz]

29. I think "Don't speak ill of the dead"

applies to day-to-day gossip. Not major national and international policies affecting millions of people. If nobody spoke ill of the dead history books would never get written.

[Liberalynn]

30. Well said

[malaise]

31. K & effing R n/t

[maddezmom]

33. Amen. n/t

[smirkymonkey]

34. Excellent point! Spot on.

K&R!

[hedgehog]

37. Stating that she did horrible things during her life is only expressing an opinion and I find

that acceptable. Suggesting that she deserved to die with dementia because of what she did is more on the line of declaring her punishment, and I think that's over the line. There's a subtle difference there.


Another example: saying Rick Warren is a terrible man because of what he preaches about gays is OK in my book. Saying he deserves the pain of his son's suicide is not.

[Arugula Latte]

79. Are people really saying she deserved to die of/with dementia?

Mostly what I see are people who don't want her horrible actions and policies whitewashed over, sanitized, buried or denied so that Thatcher can canonized as Saint Maggie, up there with ol' Saint Ronnie, simply because she died.

[hedgehog]

80. I haven't seen anyone say that she deserved to die with dementia, but

being glad someone is dead may well be crossing the line. I'm glad she's out of power, but that's not the same as wishing her dead.

- Saying she did harm - OK
- Saying you're glad she's out of power - OK
- Saying you wish her harm - not OK
- saying you'd like to see justice done via criminal law or civil suit - OK

[mulsh]

38. spot on.

Those of us who are old enough seem to have never changed out minds about these late sociopaths. perhaps because they never managed to do anything that would cause us change our minds. I know Thatcher never did so.

[xtraxritical]

39. Thatcher was much like Reagan, from a modest background a modest education

and not the sharpest tack in the box when it comes to governing. Getting elected, now that's another story, they both mongered fear, that was the Bush/Cheney M.O. too. The whole lot is a bunch of greedy, opportunistic MFs, deaths too easy for them.

[Raven]

40. Truer words were never spoken. n/t

[Aristus]

41. Amen, Pri.

K&R

[dembotoz]

42. any discussion on this subject must include mr romney--we dodged a bullet there....

just sayin

[idwiyo]

43. K&R I am with you. She didn't give a shit what us "plebs" thought about her, don't see a reason why

anyone should give a shit about her.

There going to be a party Saturday in London and I am definitely attending.

[joeybee12]

46. Yup...knr

[Hissyspit]

47. Well, I'm happy to have inspired this thread.

I think.

[libodem]

48. Be proud

[Bucky]

49. Rec #102

I got a friend who lived in Britain during the Thatcher years. She was far worse than Reagan, where social policy is concerned.

[cer7711]

50. How Dare You Attack Maggie Thatcher!

Last edited Wed Apr 10, 2013, 11:05 PM - Edit history (5)

You think being a war-mongering, union-busting, liberal-hating, Pinochet-doting, sociopathic snob who laid waste to her own country was easy?

Hell no! Every day the 'ole battle-axe would have to gargle with razor blades and bite the heads off three working-class babies before ginning up enough energy to page (with a small, delighted smile) through a picture-book documenting the Irish potato famine. When this routine ceased to twitch her imperious, elitist clit the way it used to clenched-jawed Maggie responded to Argentinian provocation by launching an absurd and completely avoidable war in the Falklands. Resulting death toll? Over nine-hundred combined British and Argentinian lives. Completely acceptable, for such a glorious adventure!

Let us now raise our voices together:

Rule, Thatch-tannia,
Maggie sent great waves
of fear & loss & privation 'cross the Isle
to benefit upper-class twits and knaves!

[Warren DeMontague]

52. I wonder what Roger Waters is saying about her.

I don't recall him being a fan.

[sigmasix]

57. final cut

thatcher wanted to ban the pink floyd album because it was so critical of her war mongering. I'm sure Mr. Waters isnt shedding any tears.

[Agony]

53. your statement has my unqualified support!

I fucking HATE sociopaths... someday may they be rare and powerless.

Cheers!
Agony

[rocktivity]

54. Let's spin that oldie but goodie: U2's cover of Maggie's farm

rocktivity

[Starry Messenger]

55. Thank you.

The smarmy sanctimony around this has been propelled into the absurd. I guess we should gird ourselves for when Cheney goes and people start OPs about how we should lay off sweet grandpa Cheney. He might have smelled a flower once, or something human once, lol.

[Diclotican]

59. La Lioness Priyanka

La Lioness Priyanka

I think - and I do hope (for some reason) that Maggi is on a place now, where she is given a payback for all the miserable things she did as Prime Minister for the "lesser" of us all - She did a lot of bad things for the working men and woman in the UK - and that over more than 18 years... And the legacy of it all is shown even today - millions who is dirt poor, living on scraps, in homes who is in shambles - and no one - noe one is doing anything for making it better... And she also made millions of good working english out of a job - many who have never been able to get on their feet again - Many City's in the north, who was depended of the industry is now more or less ruins compared to what it was 30 or 40 year ago.. Not to say millions of young men and woman, who know they will never be in a decent, paid job, as the industry who once was given UK its might - are not there at all anymore...

I for one, would if not exactly celebrate the death of this bad excuse for a woman - but I have to say - I will neither cry the death of her - in fact I would toats for her death - and hope her well in her next life - somewhere below in the darkest, most horrible pits in hell..

Diclotican

[DonCoquixote]

62. It is one thing to attack a relative

For example, when Rick Warren's son died, we thankfully did not gravedance.

But when you deal with people whose penstroke determined if people lived or died, that is another. To a lesser extent, people who actively called for people to be hurt or killed also makes a special category, though, for all his sound and fury, I would not dance as hard on the grave of Andrew Brietbart as I would Thatcher. The reason why is that if you do not acknowledge what they did, others will use them as an example, and worse, make them into martyrs. We have still not recovered from either Reagan or Thatcher, and many think they are role models. Even the fucking Spice Girls invoked old Maggie.

As much as people hate to admit this, Joseph Campbell was right: People DO live and die for metaphors, every damned day. What is worse ios that, the farther away from the lifetime of the person, the closer people can come to becoming gods, memes and of if themselves that influence the way the whole of Humanity thinks.

In this day and age, we have records and video. There is not much chance that there will be a lack of information about what people actually looked or sounded like, unlike most religous figures.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

63. K & R

[Deep13]

64. Why do we let sociopaths run our countries?

Why do they companies, law schools, business schools etc?

Also, you are awesome.

[Apophis]

65. I hope she's burning in hell.

[SwissTony]

66. Wigan Football (Soccer) Club are playing in the semi-final of the FA Cup this weekend.

Wigan chairman Dave Whelan wants a minute's silence for Thatcher.

It would be the loudest minute's silence ever.

[stevenleser]

67. K&R nt

[morningfog]

69. Sociopath apologia is far more offensive than grave dancing.

[Chalco]

70. Unfortunately

sociopaths couldn't care less about what you or anyone else thinks. Plus, they don't care what anyone feels about their behavior period. They don't care about the impact of their behavior on others.

[gtar100]

71. Fear of speaking ill of the dead is a symptom of fear that a god exists to punish us when we die.

I think speaking the truth about the dead is about the greatest honor we can give. It affirms that we do not wish to forget the lessons a life has brought us. If those truths are about the wretchedness of a person and the damage they have done, just maybe we'll be less likely to repeat the same if we remember how bad of a person someone was (i. e., Reagan, Thatcher as notorious but not worst case examples).

[tavalon]

72. Seems pretty straightforward to me

[Zorra]

76. Great common sense point, LLP. The ladies doth protest too much, methinks. nt

[raouldukelives]

78. Exactly. Don't support Wall St and you won't be remembered as a climate change denier. nt

[hfojvt]

82. what is a sociopath, though?

Who are you talking about here?

Let me list some names.

Dr. Cornel West
Al Sharpton
Michael Moore
Andrea Dworkin

Anybody who stands up for a cause or takes a side on an issue will have supporters and will have detractors.

The question is - why can't we have a civil debate?

First, even when these people are alive, it seems like some people cannot oppose them without calling them extreme names.

Let me try for an example on DU. Here is my classic "Response to Governor Jindal" http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/101

Yet the main response of DU was to start a whole bunch of threads about Piyush, and then a minor flame war erupted about whether it was proper to call him Piyush.

When somebody advocates for some issue or gives a speech if out main response is to call hateful names, then to a neutral or wavering observer it looks like - our side has no class, and our side apparently does NOT have the truth on their side since they are not fighting with the truth, they are only fighting with hate.

Keep in mind, this is only an ideal. Like Cesar Chavez who said "I am a violent man who is trying to be nonviolent" a person needs to keep reminding themselves of their ideal.

Like I said, it is one thing to speak ill of the dead and say "their policies were not good for this country or this world or this planet" and another to just say, even though it is so much easier and requires much less research, "they were a fugging a-hole".

Again, ideally we should be (which is not to say that we ARE)

fighting lies with truth
fighting hate with love
fighting evil with good

Otherwise you are just making an "ends justify the means" argument, that "since I am a good person fighting against evil, I am allowed to do all sorts of evil things for my cause."

[skygazer]

83. I haven't been around here in a while

Nice to see that you are still telling it like it is.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

84. ...

[steve2470]

86. makes sense to me ! nt