What do you think is the appropriate, best, or honest reaction after the death of a disliked person?

[hrmjustin]

No judgments from me just curious as to your opinions considering the last 24 hours.

can also be an evil person as well.

[Drale]

1. They are dead, they can't effect me or anyone else anymore

so that's is, just forget about them.

[Wait Wut]

3. +1

If I didn't get my point across to them while they were alive, what use is it to yell at the damned sky?

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

26. Policies and other actions supported or enacted can continue to effect lives negatively.

[Drale]

34. Yes but that person is dead

and can no longer effect those policies so blame the current politicians who still support those policies.

[SwissTony]

71. Some policies may not be reversible

or might be extremely expensive to reverse. For example, much of the British rail net was privatised. Any government (Tory or Labour) would find it difficult and extremely expensive to reacquire it, even if they wanted to.

[840high]

62. +2

[enlightenment]

2. No comment - or if

you really need to say something, reasoned and adult criticism of their actions rather than comments like "ding dong the witch is dead" or "hope you rot in hell" or similar.

That's my opinion. Obviously, many disagree.

[OwnedByCats]

60. Agreed

I'm not a fan of grave dancing, no matter who they are. It doesn't undo what was done and quite frankly, it doesn't make me feel any better about it. I won't mourn the death of extremely evil people but I won't throw a party in the street either. I don't wish death on people and I won't celebrate it when it happens.

With Margaret Thatcher, as the case with any other political figure, she was loved by some, she was liked by some, some were indifferent to her, and some downright hated her. She hasn't been Prime Minister in 23 years. If the policies that were so unpopular are still in place today, then the politicians running the show now need to change things, if they can. However when I think of British History, I appreciate how far that country has come. They have a very dark past, but present day they are extremely socially liberal. Things that people were killed for that are now seen as acceptable. I'm not crediting MT for their evolvement of course, it happened despite her, not because of her.

[Dreamer Tatum]

4. To increase one's street cred by woofing, of course. nt

[Floyd_Gondolli]

5. Light your hair on fire

Or so it seems....

[hrmjustin]

7. Congrats on 1000 posts my friend!!!

[Apophis]

6. Pissing on the corpse as it gets cold.

[Vincardog]

8. a disliked person, or a disliked PUBLIC person whose policies affected MILLIONS?

[hrmjustin]

15. can be either.

[Vincardog]

30. It depends on the person

[enough]

9. I think it's entirely different depending on whether the person was

a private citizen or a public figure who once held great power. In the former case, silence is the best reaction or, if dealing with the family and friends, polite condolences. In the latter case, truth needs to be told.

[OKNancy]

10. If it someone I know well

I would keep my bad words to my immediate family. If it is a public figure, the same.
That's just me. Now, later on I would have no problem setting the record straight about someone like Reagan for instance.

Here's the thing... if you express negativity publicly, it just makes you look bad, and ill-mannered.
Anonymous internet is different. If you want to say something shitty, fine. I wouldn't, but some feel compelled to do it... I say "knock yourself out".

[riqster]

11. Depends on the identity of the decedent.

When Jim Rhodes died, I celebrated. When my mother died, I cried.

[Hekate]

12. Silence. No comment. Just wait a decent interval for families to grieve.

There will be plenty of time in a week to dissect the cadaver.

I recall having plenty to say about Reagan's term as governor of California, among other things, but I also recall protesting that slamming his widow was beyond the pale.

I assume you were referring to public figures -- but in the case of someone you know, keep your thoughts to yourself and condole the grieving. "I'm sorry for your loss" covers a lot of territory and won't twist the knife in someone else's wound.

[YvonneCa]

20. BEST...

...answer, Hekate.

For me, it's similar to the 'torture' issue...doing it reflects on US, not those we disrespect. It says a lot about our OWN character that we think torture is okay, or that we think it is okay to speak ill of those that have recently passed away.

[backscatter712]

13. Piss on the corpse, so as to keep corporate media from canonizing the bastard. n/t

[Turborama]

14. If it's a politician who has negatively impacted the lives of millions of people, expose the truth

And try to inform those who seem to be a bit out of touch with what they really did.

[joeybee12]

16. There's a disliked person, and then there's an evil person...

And obviously the reactions would and should be different.

[cali]

17. Assessing and remembering what they did that made them so disliked

[dipsydoodle]

18. Depends

The fascination here with her in this instance I find quite remarkable given that she wasn't even US.

Whats even more curious is the absense of constructive comments in terms of what alternative policies would've led to.

[Hissyspit]

57. Her politics ABSOLUTELY affected the U.S.

What is the alternative policy to praising Pinochet?

[dipsydoodle]

63. In what manner ?

Her publicised praise for Pinochet during the attempts to deport him was 8 years after she left power during the attempts to deport him to Spain . Her praise was based on his support during the Falklands war. I do not agree that any support for Pinochet is merited.

The US had helped install Pinochet in the first place following their help in disposing of their first choice, Rene Schneider , who wouldn't play ball with the US. General Schneider whilst not agreeing with Allende's policies recognised democracy. A warrant remains in place in France in connection with contempt of court for Kissenger's arrest on the subject of Schneider's assassination.

[Isoldeblue]

19. Just because a person dies,

doesn't justify anything wrong they've done. But I don't feel it's right to make undocumented accusations that the dead person can't defend themselves against. In other words, whatever one's opinion is, should not have to change, once that person dies. But to say they've done something that hasn't been proven, either way, is wrong.

When I was a child, about 12 and an uncle of mine died, I said afterwards that, "I won't miss the creep". He was a problem drinker with a bad temper and had sacred the crap out of me many times through the years and I grew to really dislike him.
This was not a secret to anyone. But despite that, I was immediately rebuked for speaking, "ill of the dead". I didn't get it then and I still don't get it now.

He had insulted many people and I watched as he would bring my aunt to tears on several occasions. So why would his death change anything? He was what he was and death does not excuse anyone's behavior and reputation. I was relieved that he was gone. And I don't see how that makes me a bad person for thinking so.

So if it's the truth, then it's appropriate. I just would be careful around who I said it, not wanting to hurt anyone who still loved that person and would miss them.

[William769]

21. Well upon Reagan's death, I was doing this.

To many people (many my friends) died because of this man. I don't regret it in the least.

[hrmjustin]

23. Many people forget that he let thousands of Americans die without trying to help them.

[el_bryanto]

22. This is a tricky thing

On the one hand I think its best to try and see all sides of everybody - not that many people are all bad - and the moment of someones death is a time I feel a desire to be charitable. Kind. As I would want people to be kind after my death.

On the other hand, Ms Thatcher (to pick an example at random) did really bad things and made things worse for her nation. And her policies and philosophies are still around and need to be destroyed. Certainly focusing only on her positive characteristics is problematic, as there are plenty who are appropriating her image for their own destructive ends.

I guess I'll say I am not sure -fortunately many people at DU are not afflicted by my wishy-washiness, and I'm sure they'll take up the slack.

Bryant

[PD Turk]

24. I remember something my uncle said

..when he was chastised of speaking ill of someone who had passed on.

"He was a SOB when he was alive and he's still a SOB now that he's dead, doesn't make any difference to me"

Ol uncle Jim never was one to mince words lol

[Lugnut]

25. I have nothing nice to say.

I have refrained from saying anything.

[graham4anything]

27. Elvis Costello, as an example, said his piece while she was alive and well and knew his words

He didn't need to beat around the Bushes, he said it straight forward.

That took courage.

I love the song for the melody and beat, and am always glad to give a plug to the Elvis that is still here amongst us.

(with no personal opinion one way or another, but one thing is for sure.
Barack Obama would NOT have hired her for his staff.But representing America, one must be respectful of other world leaders.
I note, always without editorial comment, that there were mixed reactions on the death of Chavez.

And I also note, that daily on DU, the disrepect for our living, breathing President is one zillion times worse, than any comment some poster or other would have said about Thatcher.
The disconnect is truly amazing.
And I do need to wonder why.

Declan Patrick Aloysius Macmanus this one is for you- hit the bar in the middle of youtube

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="

?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[ljm2002]

28. I don't like gravedancing...

...therefore, I don't think it is appropriate to make nasty personal comments about the recently departed.

However, when the departed is a public figure, I think it is entirely reasonable to take a hard look at what they did during their life and to praise OR criticize as appropriate. If the public figure had a particularly nasty disposition and it was well known then that too is fair game in my book.

Certainly I have no problem with mentioning things about them that are less than flattering if they are well deserved. In the case of Margaret Thatcher, we know that she supported and was friends with Augustus Pinochet, and that she deemed Nelson Mandela to be a terrorist, and that she was fine with South Africa's apartheid system. Her policies decimated labor in her own country and caused unemployment to skyrocket. Should we then refrain from criticizing her in order to spare the feelings of her family or some such blather? Not in my book.

She earned every bit of scorn she is receiving. I'd keep it from being personal, but other than that, we have to counteract the attempt to raise her status to near-sainthood. We should have done that with Ronald Reagan. As it is, he has reached idol status with a lot of the public, and that is a damned shame. I can't imagine why anyone would elevate Ms. Thatcher in the same way, but we see it happening already.

[DirkGently]

61. Yes. Facts, not sneering. We need to remember what public figures

like Thatcher did, for good and ill, for the benefit of historical perspective. Whooping about dancing on graves or belittling someone as subhuman is despicable and accomplishes nothing but demonstrating the low character of the speaker.

[reformist2]

29. It goes on a sliding scale. Obviously with Hitler's or Stalin's deaths, celebration was in order.

With lesser evils such as Margaret Thatcher, harsh criticism (like the kind Morrissey delivered) is entirely appropriate. For mere political opponents, that's when the rule about "not speaking ill of the dead" applies again.

[WilliamPitt]

31. Honesty.

And if honesty makes the deceased sound wretched, well, it's a lesson for the rest of us to live a better life.

[Jamastiene]

32. Appropriate, Best, and Honest are three different questions, really.

Appropriate? For who? Where? I have noticed in the U.K. they are not holding any punches just because the woman is dead. Some have even depicted her under a house, a la The Wizard of Oz. In the U.S., some are speaking our minds, while others are telling us to hush hush, as if Thatcher's family reads DU religiously and anything we say matters at all one way or another to them. Hint: It does not and if you think it does, you really need to get out more and learn about the big, huge world outside DU.

Best? How so? Best for who? My opinion: It is best to be honest. If you did not like Thatcher's policies and actions, say so. Why lie about it?

Honest? Yes. That's the way to go. Why should anyone at DU hold our tongue and worry what someone on FR, CC, or some other right wing shit hole thinks? Isn't that what got us into this right-wing-as-the-new-center mess to begin with? Too many Democrats in all three branches of government are too worried they may offend assholes who hate us and openly call us cockroaches and want to destroy us. Yeah, look what worrying about offending them has gotten us. Fuck that. Be honest and give them something to talk about. As of right now, they have us beaten down and afraid to speak our minds. Well, they have some beaten down and afraid to speak their minds. Me? I don't give a shit. Fuck them and their obnoxious bullshit. It's time they heard the truth. They need to get out of their 24 foot deep holes in the ground and quit hiding like Saddam in their skid mark stained underwear. Yeah, I said that. Right wingers are cowards hiding in holes in the ground, afraid of some imaginary boogie man only they see. And Democrats in our government are afraid of offending them? No damn wonder the country is in such shit shape. Cowardly morons and their enablers have been in charge of the country too damn long.

You may look down on honestly speaking our mind on DU, but what have fake niceties and mealy mouthed uber politeness gotten us in our government for the last 40 years? Too damn many Republicans in control and too damn many Democrats bending over backward to kiss their asses and give them what they want AND MORE. Fuck being enablers to the right wing's infantile paranoid fantasies, illusions of grandeur, blood lust, hatred, and white sheet and diaper fetishes. That is why we are in the mess we are in as a country now. We have kowtowed to their sense of "morality" long enough.

Honesty is best. We should say what we think instead of cowering and enabling the right wing even more than they already are. They are spoiled rotten brats and need to hear the truth. It is time they grew up and heard the truth. Thatcher was buddies with Reagan. No, I have nothing at all nice to say about the woman, alive or dead. She ran with Reagan and held many of the same types of right wing, cold-hearted, repulsive policies that he did.

[Bandit]

33. You can relate the person's history and record and then let the chips fall where they may....

If you say a person is on recotrd for such and such, I wouldn't call that bad mouthing that person. It is just giving out the facts and then let others make up their mind whether that person was good or bad for our world....Let the truth shine through.....

[Johonny]

35. everyone's reaction to death is different

many people want to avoid unpleasant subjects such as death and the horrors caused by unjust policies. Some people however do not like the whitewash dead politicians get and feel history as it really happen to average people should be remembered too. If you don't wish to speak ill of the dead on the DU it is rather easy to not read or post in threads. Much easier than say creating a thread to voice what people can and can't talk about. Myself I found many of the negative Thatcher threads interesting. I remember Reagan and Thatcher the media sensation and creation... but I also lived in the world they created. I can't separate the two.

[SoCalDem]

36. Depends.

When someone seeks public attention in life...politician/entertainment their passing will always receive attention..good and bad.. By them time they die, their family is probably used to it., and since they are dead, they probably have no issues with it anymore.

If someone is NOT a public figure ( a dead spouse of/child of/etc, the dissection of their life should be off limits.

[TroglodyteScholar]

37. I think reactions can be distasteful for sure...

But it's a person's right (in a country with freedom of speech) to be distasteful.

[Ptah]

38. No comment.

[Bluenorthwest]

39. To leave out 'historically public person' is about as unfair as to be expected.

Your OP seems to make a case for dishonesty and lying as some sort of ritual around death. Honesty is always appropriate. The world is not her family's mourning place, we are not attendees at her funeral. There is no reason not to say today about her what you'd say last week about her. She was a terrible, heartless, nasty person. She knew what I thought when she lived, so her ghost if overhearing would not be surprised.

[Katashi_itto]

40. Cheering. I do that every time a Republican snuffs it.

[Posteritatis]

41. It depends on the person and the reasons for the dislike.

I can't stand my neighbor, for example, but he didn't destroy nations.

[Tikki]

42. I had first hand experience with some caught in thatcher's trap..no matter what I could write down..

here..it could never really express the feelings I have had over these years.

A Fact: I have personally seen titles and lyrics of 37 songs written about thatcher...all were negative on her.



Tikki

[LooseWilly]

43. Effusive praise, or pissing on their grave... or anything in between

Knock yourself out.

There's no point in being polite about the dead... though it is, often unfortunately, too late to hurt their feelings. Probably.

Though, if I had any faith whatsoever, I could feel confident that Thatcher's hair would get damp in "Heaven" everytime someone pissed on her grave. Amen.

[Volaris]

44. Facts.

When Cheney drops over dead, His cult worshipers will do EVERYTHING in their power to tell us how great he was.

Being a decent husband and father are NOT things you get credit for, IMHO, as those are supposed to be traits granted us by Evolution, as needed to perpetuate a Modern Human Species. As far as that goes, I will not dismiss the pain and sadness his family feels at his passing. But as for the rest of it, yeah,

FACTS, motherfucker. Liz doesn't get to replace documented History with her personal feelings. No matter how much the personality cultists might want to.

The actions he undertook, very likely would qualify him for War Crimes indictments. That doesn't mean he didn't love his kids.

Facts.

[UTUSN]

45. We're ALL human containing all potential for good or evil, & why is a FAIR ASSESSMENT unkind?!1

It's equally absurd to paint a liked human as if there were NO flaws. The fair assessment is an affirmation of the subject's humanity. I don't quibble about supporters mourning, but why should TRUE items (like one in today's news describing THATCHER's racism) be obliterated outside of the mourning locations?

[olddots]

46. Its personal

Hopefully she will serve as a bad example .

[HiPointDem]

47. If it's just a disliked person, like your friends husband or something, the appropriate reaction

is "i'm so sorry".

If the disliked person is a national politician who trashed the welfare state causing harm to millions & lasting repercussions, not to mention being a warmongering hawk, the appropriate expression is: "I hope she suffered".

[Raine]

48. These two words in the subject line ... "NO COMMENT" it's a way of giving your opinion

without dumping on the person.

[scarletwoman]

49. It's exactly the same for a liked person as a disliked person: telling the truth.

It's exactly the same for a good person as an evil person: telling the truth.

[Arugula Latte]

50. If they're a public figure their life should be evaluated honestly and candidly.

[elleng]

51. Silence.

(Don't know that I'll adhere to that re: cheney.)

[Warpy]

52. I actually held off a bit during the Reagan grieveapalooza

simply out of respect for the kids that turned out OK in spite of their parents.

Not so for Thatcher, her kids are all just like her.

I'm glad she's gone. The world is just a little bit brighter and more hopeful without her.

However, the real celebration will come when Stupid's people start to die off.

[quinnox]

53. It is best to remain silent

that is the honorable and respectful way to go when dealing with this matter.

[Warren DeMontague]

54. Depends on how egregious the stuff they did was.

People who are a mix of bad and good, the decent thing is to remember the good.

People who were mostly bad, or you mostly didn't like, the decent thing is to say as little as possible.

People who were horrible fucking examples of humanity- like Hitler, or Stalin, or Pol Pot.. fuck em.

[longship]

55. Honesty is the best policy. Always.

One lives with ones legacy, and alas, one dies with the same.

[Marrah_G]

56. I think people should be honest

Not speaking ill of the dead when that person has done terrible things is very weird notion to me.

The view that evil people suddenly develop wonderful spirits deserving on respect the moment they die is, in my opinion, absurd.

[Demo_Chris]

58. The truth is particularly important in the face of hollow praise

Every man's death does not diminish me.

[99Forever]

59. Totally depends on who it is.

One size, most definitely, does NOT fit all.

[stevenleser]

64. At times like this, I think of James Loewen

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/lies-my-teacher-told-me-james-w-loewen/1100185227




What passes for identity in America is a series of myths about one's heroic ancestors.
James Baldwin

One is astonished in the study of history at the recurrence of the idea that evil must be forgotten, distorted, skimmed over. We must not remember that Daniel Webster got drunk but only remember that he was a splendid constitutional lawyer. We must forget that George Washington was a slave owner.., and simply remember the things we regard as creditable and inspiring. The difficulty, of course, with this philosophy is that history loses its value as an incentive and example; it paints perfect men and noble nations, but it does not tell the truth.
W. E. B. Du Bois

By idolizing those whom we honor, we do a disservice both to them and to ourselves....We fail to recognize that we could go and do likewise.
Charles V. Willies

This Chapter is About Heroification, a degenerative process (much like calcification) that makes people over into heroes. Through this process, our educational media turn flesh-and-blood individuals into pious, perfect creatures without conflicts, pain, credibility, or human interest.

[loyalsister]

65. Disinterest

If I dislike a person, they just aren't part of my life. Why suddenly care when they die?

[Dorian Gray]

66. Why you all gotta hate on Annette Funicello so much?

[LWolf]

67. I think silence, humility,

and non-judgement is the best reaction. We will all die. Death is part of our commonality. You don't have to like or agree with a person to recognize commonalities.

When I die, I hope that people can say that, in the balance of things, I did no harm. I walked lightly and left the world, if not better, at least not worse. I hope.

I'm not arrogant enough to think that I'm better than anyone else, and I'd rather focus on my own evolution, my own choices, than sit in judgement on others'.

That said, when someone who has caused notable harm dies, I also feel relief. I have no problem identifying and condemning choices I see happening in the here and now that cause harm, and working against those that make those choices.

I'm not going to be dancing on any graves, though. That is insensitive, lacks empathy, and mimics the things I don't like in others.

[TimberValley]

68. "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say it." n/t.

[Arkansas Granny]

69. I don't like grave dancing. Dead is dead. Just let it be.

Most people, regardless how hated they seem to be, will be mourned by someone. Many people, regardless how loved they seem to be, will have their death celebrated by someone.

A classic quote comes to mind:

There is so much good in the worst of us,
And so much bad in the best of us,
That it hardly behooves any of us
To talk about the rest of us.

Edward Wallis Hoch

[LeftinOH]

70. Being dead shouldn't exempt one from criticism, IMO.

Meaning: If your actions have lasting *negative* consequences, then post-mortem bashing is deserved.