Oklahoma Secular Kids Camp Fundraiser Kicked out of BBQ Joint for not being Christian

[Mortos]

A group I am a member of was hosting a fund raiser for Camp Quest, a children's summer camp to foster scientific thinking in a secular, humanist learning environment. A local restaurant, Oklahoma Joe's BBQ in Broken Bow, Oklahoma, agreed 3 weeks ago to do a fundraiser in which 10% of the tabs of people who came in and said they were there for the fundraiser would go to the camp.

After dozens of people had arrived, the owner posted a sign on the door that said the fundraiser was cancelled because the group had not been honest with him about the nature of the camp and it didn't agree with his Christian values so he would not be donating any of the proceeds to the organization.

There is some disagreement as to whether people were asked to leave by the owner or management or they just chose to leave on their own and demanded refunds since they had come specifically to raise money for Camp Quest.

The story is making the blogosphere, a good article on it here with lots of pics:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wwjtd/2013/04/camp-quest-oklahoma-kicked-out-of-their-own-fundraiser-by-christian-business-owner/



It probably cost Camp Quest hundreds of dollars in donations. That money would be used to provide scholarships to needy kids who can't normally afford summer camp.

Camp Quest website is here:

http://campquestoklahoma.org/

[Tikki]

1. But, but, but...christians are persecuted, unendingly....

Camp Quest is a great organization..


Tikki

[defacto7]

13. ..christians are persecuted, unendingly....

Of course!

But when it's their time to persecute, they like to persecute the kids.

[backscatter712]

14. They scream if their Good News Club terror-indoctrinator cells aren't allowed in public schools...

But if a secular/atheist group like Camp Quest tries to set up shop and fundraise alongside Christian summer-camps, this shit happens.



But didn't you know? Atheists are all militant assholes, and Christians are poor persecuted lambs.

[Tikki]

15. You know...in many ways you are correct...think about it...

I guess I forgot the smilie in my post..I know all religions and non-religions
get their disrespect, but seems like some christians make a lifestyle out of their outrage.


Tikki

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Clearly a Civil Rights violation.

Based upon not being a Christian.

[pipoman]

6. Technically civil rights can only be violated by government..

[baldguy]

10. This is a violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964

Which outlaws discrimination based on race, color, religion or national origin in hotels, motels, restaurants, theaters, and all other public accommodations engaged in interstate commerce.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

[pipoman]

11. From your link..

The Constitutionality of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was, at the time, in some dispute as it applied to the private sector. In the landmark Civil Rights Cases the United States Supreme Court had ruled that Congress did not have the power to prohibit discrimination in the private sector, thus stripping the Civil Rights Act of 1875 of much of its ability to protect civil rights [3]. Even today, the Supreme Court has struck down parts of civil rights laws on the grounds that the Fourteenth Amendment does not give Congress the power to prohibit private sector discrimination.

[eomer]

20. From the same link:

In the 1930s, during the New Deal, the majority of the Supreme Court justices gradually shifted their legal theory to allow for greater government regulation of the private sector under the commerce clause, thus paving the way for the Federal government to enact civil rights laws prohibiting both public and private sector discrimination on the basis of the commerce clause.

After the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed, the Supreme Court upheld the law's application to the private sector, on the grounds that Congress has the power to regulate commerce between the States. The landmark case, Heart of Atlanta Motel v. United States, established the Constitutionality of the law, but it did not settle all of the legal questions surrounding the law.

[baldguy]

21. Which case was it that made discrimination in restaurants based on religion legal?

If that part hasn't been struck down - and it hasn't - then it's still in force.

[pipoman]

23. Then you shouldn't have any trouble

finding a case of a single location restaurant which has been prosecuted, eh? A multi-state chain, maybe..

[baldguy]

24. You know that's not how it works. Once a law is passed, it's the law.

To get it changed, it has to be struck down by the courts or voted on through the legislative process. And civil rights cases usually take the form of civil suits rather than criminal cases, as you also well know.

Instead of repeatedly trying to defend Rand Paul's view of the world, why don't you just answer my question? Or simply admit that you're wrong?

[no_hypocrisy]

25. Wouldn't this situation be analogous to white restaurants refusing to give

service to African-Americans?

[pipoman]

28. Probably,

but I don't think it is actionable federally unless it is part of a multi-state chain..some states may have their own criminal enforcement or civil procedure..just don't think the feds can do anything.

As for this case in particular, I don't think it has standing in either case because service wasn't refused, just refused to donate to a charity. This isn't to say the guy isn't an idiot or that he shouldn't be boycotted or some such...just that civil rights violation claims against private business isn't usually actionable...never heard of one sticking..

[Cal Carpenter]

26. No it's not

I'm not defending the place, so don't get me wrong. But they make it clear they will serve anyone. They just won't use the proceeds of sales for this camp fundraiser.

They aren't refusing service, they are refusing to make donations. And that's not a civil rights issue.

[no_hypocrisy]

29. But indirectly, isn't it a violation?

The group wouldn't have chosen that restaurant to hold its fundraiser if they were going to be frustrated in their purpose by the restaurant getting profits from their patronage and then withholding its donation. And especially based on their lack of religion. It would have been different if it were a simple breach of contract situation. The restaurant brought the issue of lack of religion into the mix.

[neverforget]

3. "We will provide service to anyone." except non-Believers.

[Blue Owl]

4. When will Jesus bring the pork chops, Joe Davidson?

When?

[Demo_Chris]

5. I was right by you just last weekend

At Dogwood days in Idabel, Oklahoma

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

7. So what if Joe's Bowling league throws a party there?

Or the Kinko's down the street....or the Oklahoma City Blazers.

Idiots don't know what secular means.

[defacto7]

12. Idiots don't know what secular means

Honestly, probably not.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

8. Critical thinking skills......we can't have that!!!!

We need obedient little sheep and get 'em early.

[Rex]

9. 'We will provide service to anyone?'

Wait...wha?

[Beartracks]

17. Anyone could still go in to eat. However, the restaurant...

... just wasn't going to donate part of the proceeds to the camp, as originally planned.

They're not discriminating against customers in that regard. They just wanted to pull their sponsorship of the fundraiser... I guess because the organizers were atheist? I don't think that violates anyone's civil rights, since they're not refusing service to anyone. And they don't have to donate money where they don't want to.

However, I just find it odd that the description of the event seemed good enough for them to begin their sponsorship... but it was the religious beliefs of the organizers that made them change their minds mid-stream. It sounds like it went down like this:

"Kids going to camp to learn about nature and weather and do cool things and get an education while having fun? Sounds great! Oh, wait, y'all are atheists? Never mind."



=================

[Rex]

31. Thanks! I was confused.

nt.

[Cha]

16. That's real "christian".. no really. n/m

[uncle ray]

18. No, Joe, you didn't research the camp before you agreed to do the fundraiser.

the burden is on you, Asshole, to determine if a group is one you care to associate with BEFORE you agree to participate in a fundraiser for them.

[TeamPooka]

19. Dude might be a "Christian" but he's not a man of his word or one that keeps a promise.

I call them folks that break promises or go back on their word of honor a weasel.
Weasel BBQ - We serve our lies up fresh daily

[dembotoz]

22. well this wasn't handled well wasn't it

black eye for all

imagine somebody got to the owner

local pastor? tea party????

I am involved with destination imagination up here is Wisconsin and we do a number of fundraisers if one of our teams advance in the competition.

The local school seems to like us but has little financial support....This is the land of scott walker.....


sorta crazy think I spent more time trying to raise money for stuff related to schools then I did working on campaigns and that is where my heart is

between di and the kids high school hockey team.....

[gordianot]

27. They should be grateful there were no physical injuries.

After all Jesus was into face slapping and sword carrying.

[Ikonoklast]

30. He violated his own "Christian philosophy" with that inane statement.

Of course, what these type of people believe is so far removed from actual Christianity as to be laughable.



I wonder if Joe Davidson knows that Jesus spent his entire life speaking to anyone that would listen, not just those that agreed with him.

[mikeytherat]

32. If Jesus Christ ever came back and saw what was going on in his name, he'd never stop throwing up.

mikey_the_rat

[haele]

33. Wait - he agreed to host the fundraiser and it had already started before he cancelled?

"A dozen people" had already come in to participate in the fundraising event and then he shuts it down after they've already presumably ordered, expecting part of the proceeds to go to the camp? Customers that would not have otherwise come in to order food?

Not only stupid to have asked questions before he agreed to host the event, but possibly venal - those customers that already paid for an order thinking they were going to be donating to the camp should have had a chance to have gotten their money back.

At least he wasn't a total asshole - this cynical observer of many religiously hypocritical events would have expected him to wait until after the event was in full swing to cancel and just pocket the "donations" from customers who would not have otherwise come in on their own volition.

Haele