Greenwald really nails it today re “speaking ill of the dead.”

[kpete]

Margaret Thatcher and misapplied death etiquette

The dictate that one 'not speak ill of the dead' is (at best) appropriate for private individuals, not influential public figures

by: Glenn Greenwald

......................

............................

..............there's something distinctively creepy - in a Roman sort of way - about this mandated ritual that our political leaders must be heralded and consecrated as saints upon death. This is accomplished by this baseless moral precept that it is gauche or worse to balance the gushing praise for them upon death with valid criticisms. There is absolutely nothing wrong with loathing Margaret Thatcher or any other person with political influence and power based upon perceived bad acts, and that doesn't change simply because they die. If anything, it becomes more compelling to commemorate those bad acts upon death as the only antidote against a society erecting a false and jingoistically self-serving history.

.....

so much more:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-etiquette

[Dawson Leery]

1. k/r

[Cleita]

2. If I'm still alive when Bush and Cheney go to meet their Maker,

I will be grave dancing nonstop until I can't stand up any more.

[SamKnause]

3. Thatcher

I agree with you Mr. Greenwald !

[haikugal]

4. Bingo!!!!

I'll be unapologetically joining you on that grave...dancing! When will people wakeup?!

[MineralMan]

5. Normally, I don't post anything when some out of office

politician dies. They're no longer in government and everything Thatcher did was quite some time ago. She's dead. We all die.

[HiPointDem]

27. she's gone but the ill she did lives on

[sabrina 1]

36. Thatcher was never held accountable for her criminal behavior, for the lives she ruined, for the

people and whole communities, including her country, that she destroyed. Had she been, IF she were to be buried quietly somewhere, rather than given the usual royal send off these leaders, both here and there, are given at which history is rewritten and the victims have no say, fine. But since these rituals as in her boyfriend, Reagan's case, are becoming even more useful for the criminal leaders who have destroyed so much of our planet, to write a history of lies, it has become imperative to put an end to that.

Reagan was help up as some kind of mythical 'leader' for over a week. While the people of the countries whose dictators he supported as they murdered innocent people, looked on and wondered 'how could this be'. How could Americans let that happen.

I used to ignore grave-dancing for the evil leaders of the world, it was enough that they were gone. But not anymore.

I hope Cheney is watching the celebrations of her death, and Bush and all the rest of them who worry so much about their legacies. They got away with their crimes so far, but they cannot control the legacies they care so much about. While they would love to see Thatcher revered and praised in death, they are not going to see that. Let it be a reminder to them that all their money and power will have no power over how the world writes their legacies.

Great article as usual by Greenwald, one of the most read and best Liberal bloggers around. Always tells the truth, which is why he has so much credibility with Democrats and respect even from Republicans who recognize the futility of trying to prove him wrong.

[jollyreaper2112]

6. spot on

He's saying what I'm thinking but far more eloquently.

[kath]

7. duplicate thread -

see here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022635520

[cali]

8. Mebbe so, but I feel no need to rush out and say anything just as the person dies

I really dislike Greenwald.

[HangOnKids]

11. You had no problem rushing out and saying shit about the Mom with the murdered infant

But hey you dislike Greenwald....guess that makes it okey dokey.

[cali]

12. That's ridiculously false, pumpkin

I said not one negative thing about her. I speculated that she may have been involved, based upon a number of factors. I was wrong, but it's hardly "saying shit", genius.

Not to mention that it's an egregiously stupid comparison.

Yikes, honey, it burns.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

18. That's the way that I remember it. n/t

[HangOnKids]

23. Maybe you'll get a pumpkin greeting too!

Or told you are a "genius" it is all such good DU love.

[Skittles]

35. you want I should kick her pumpkin-greeting ass, HOK?

that's some egregious shit right there

[HangOnKids]

38. YES!

Go for it girl!

[grantcart]

21. I agree, also the impulse to lambast a public figure when they die seems very right wing to me.

[liberal_at_heart]

9. it's also creepy how vile and disgusting people are when someone they don't like dies.

They are imperfect humans as we all are imperfect. Just as all of us have done, those who die have done good things in their life and bad things in their life. They deserve neither sainthood nor hatred.

[HangOnKids]

10. Would you like to hear all of Maggies imperfections as you call them?

Gee I feel really bad that somebody called Pol Pot an asshole too.

[sibelian]

13. Hm...

....Nah.

[pink-o]

16. If you lost your job, your home, a family member to AIDS

because of Thatcher's heartless policies, then I don't think you'd be so sensitive to the grave-dancing!

[Arugula Latte]

19. Oh, fuck me. Someone causes untold harm to millions and we're supposed to pretend

all is unicorns and fairydust when they die?

Now THAT is creepy. And vile and disgusting.

[HangOnKids]

24. Throw in a My Little Pony Too

Because nothing says "I'm Grieving" like my little pony.

[Apophis]

26. + infinity.

[datasuspect]

20. some people deserve to be hated.

even after they die.

hitler was imperfect too.

[valerief]

15. We don't have to praise our mortal enemies!!!! No matter how much the DU bullies try to make us. nt

[qazplm]

17. not creepy

basic respect to not speak ill of the dead.

I wouldn't have agreed with much of her positions, but I suspect she did the best she thought she could and knew. Being wrong, even a lot, is not a reason to speak ill of someone in and of itself.

I need a lot more than that. Bush for example I hold in a different category.

[HangOnKids]

25. Maggie was a murdering fool just like Bush and Raygun

Why are you forgiving her?

[zeemike]

32. But there is one point that makes this different.

If you say nothing, and her supporters use the media to turn her into a saint and it goes down in history as her being a saint, you have cooperated with evil by your silence.

To someone else that does not have media to promote the lie that he or she was some kind of saint I would say nothing bad about their death....but not with people like this who kill many and punish even more...We must never speak good of it and never let the bad be forgotten.

[duhneece]

39. Amen! I never want my silence to indicate approval

I appreciate the distinction Greenwald makes between public, elected officials versus your average citizen...and I agree.

[markpkessinger]

33. "Basic respect" -- for WHAT, exactly? n/t

[sabrina 1]

40. She wasn't 'wrong' she was a hateful, cruel woman who harmed untold numbers of people

She hated the poor, she hated women, she left behind a legacy of harm for so many people and the results of her vile policies are still causing harm to so many people.

There are few times when I approve of grave-dancing, but when a cruel, compassionless, harmful person like Thatcher dies, that is one of them.

Great article by Greenwald.

[backscatter712]

22. Exactly. Why should I respect in death someone I disrespect in life?

It's too bad I don't believe in Hell, because she certainly deserved to roast in it!

[noiretextatique]

28. yep...nothing more ridiculous

than paying fake homage to someone you despised when they were alive.

[Martin Eden]

29. "a false and jingoistically self-serving history"

We certainly have plenty of that right here in the states!

[rhett o rick]

30. I think he got it right. Although it is not healthy or productive to hate, it is completely

acceptable to me to express your distaste for a human. To those that say we shouldnt "rush out" and disparage someone that dies is way off. That's the best time. How long do you wait? Why wait?

I try not to hate. But damn if I will accept the saint-ification of someone terrible just because they died.

Thacher did harm to a lot of people and deserves to be disparaged.

[warrprayer]

31. Mom's Mabley REALLY nailed it

"They say you shouldn't say nothin' about the dead unless it's good. She's dead. Good"!

[olddots]

34. two twits were gushing about Thatcher on NPR this morning

They were both about 9 when she was is power .

Conservatism has become anti human progress .

[sabrina 1]

37. Greenwald always nails it!

Best liberal blogger around.

[MinM]

41. Nil nisi bonum

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2013/04/nil-nisi-bonum.html

[whopis01]

42. What I don't get about celebrating a death like this

is that nothing really changes with her death.

If it is important to someone to get out there and celebrate then more power to them. I certainly have no problem with that. And maybe it is a good balance to the automatic worship that always pops up when a leader - good, bad, or otherwise - dies.

But nothing is different today because of her death. The world hasn't changed. So it feels like a hollow victory celebration to me.