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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGlenn Greenwald on Margaret Thatcher and Misapplied Death Etiquette
Last edited Mon Apr 8, 2013, 01:56 PM - Edit history (1)
http://www.guardiannews.com/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-etiquetteMonday 8 April 2013 10.41 EDT
Margaret Thatcher and misapplied death etiquette
The dictate that one 'not speak ill of the dead' is (at best) appropriate for private individuals, not influential public figures
Glenn Greenwald
News of Margaret Thatcher's death this morning instantly and predictably gave rise to righteous sermons on the evils of speaking ill of her. British Labour MP Tom Watson decreed: "I hope that people on the left of politics respect a family in grief today." Following in the footsteps of Santa Claus, Steve Hynd quickly compiled a list of all the naughty boys and girls "on the left" who dared to express criticisms of the dearly departed Prime Minister, warning that he "will continue to add to this list throughout the day". Former Tory MP Louise Mensch, with no apparent sense of irony, invoked precepts of propriety to announce: "Pygmies of the left so predictably embarrassing yourselves, know this: not a one of your leaders will ever be globally mourned like her."
This demand for respectful silence in the wake of a public figure's death is not just misguided but dangerous. That one should not speak ill of the dead is arguably appropriate when a private person dies, but it is wildly inappropriate for the death of a controversial public figure, particularly one who wielded significant influence and political power. "Respecting the grief" of Thatcher's family members is appropriate if one is friends with them or attends a wake they organize, but the protocols are fundamentally different when it comes to public discourse about the person's life and political acts. I made this argument at length last year when Christopher Hitchens died and a speak-no-ill rule about him was instantly imposed (a rule he, more than anyone, viciously violated), and I won't repeat that argument today; those interested can read my reasoning here.
But the key point is this: those who admire the deceased public figure (and their politics) aren't silent at all. They are aggressively exploiting the emotions generated by the person's death to create hagiography. Typifying these highly dubious claims about Thatcher was this (appropriately diplomatic) statement from President Obama: "The world has lost one of the great champions of freedom and liberty, and America has lost a true friend." Those gushing depictions can be quite consequential, as it was for the week-long tidal wave of unbroken reverence that was heaped on Ronald Reagan upon his death, an episode that to this day shapes how Americans view him and the political ideas he symbolized. Demanding that no criticisms be voiced to counter that hagiography is to enable false history and a propagandistic whitewashing of bad acts, distortions that become quickly ossified and then endure by virtue of no opposition and the powerful emotions created by death. When a political leader dies, it is irresponsible in the extreme to demand that only praise be permitted but not criticisms.
Whatever else may be true of her, Thatcher engaged in incredibly consequential acts that affected millions of people around the world. She played a key role not only in bringing about the first Gulf War but also using her influence to publicly advocate for the 2003 attack on Iraq. She denounced Nelson Mandela and his ANC as "terrorists", something even David Cameron ultimately admitted was wrong. She was a steadfast friend to brutal tyrants such as Augusto Pinochet, Saddam Hussein and Indonesian dictator General Suharto ("One of our very best and most valuable friends" . And as my Guardian colleague Seumas Milne detailed last year, "across Britain Thatcher is still hated for the damage she inflicted and for her political legacy of rampant inequality and greed, privatisation and social breakdown."
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TimberValley
(318 posts)Right-wing fundamentalists are going to act the same way in criticism of liberal politicians when they pass away.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Look at what happened with Ted Kennedy's death.
Rules of civility are suspended, as far as I'm concerned.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)and like Glenn, I don't remember anyone saying "don't speak ill of Hugo Chavez."
Orsino
(37,428 posts)Don't let's pretend that they still have gloves to take off.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)... of PAUL WELLSTONE'S Memorial Ceremony?
cartach
(511 posts)They do it the extreme using exaggeration and lies when liberal politicians die, and for that matter any liberal high profile person who is still living. To all of a sudden feel kindly of tyrants when they pass away is the height of hypocrisy. The world is well rid of them and we should celebrate rather than mourn.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Thatcher is horse manure.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)Now, she's worm food. Sorry, worms.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Cremate her, then mix her ashes in with a ceramic. Use the ceramic to make a toilet, so everyone can piss on her grave.
amuse bouche
(3,657 posts)I just love the Brit humor and have been laughing 'me arse off' at their comments today
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)No doubt they didn't want to bury them for fear somebody would piss on them.
I'd have been the first in line to do it.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Dead people don't care what you think about them. And death doesn't make a person a saint.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Oh wait, this a piece I'm free to enjoy. Never mind.
starroute
(12,977 posts)It was based on the widely-spread belief that the spirits of the dead had the ability to know what anybody back on earth was saying about them -- and might show up to zap you if you said something less than totally respectful.
It's related to the way in which pharaohs and emperors were given "death names," so that you could refer to them after they'd died in a way that might not catch their attention.
So the real question is -- are you afraid of Margaret Thatcher's vengeful ghost?
If not, have at it.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Certainly fair game to point out stuff like calling Nelson Mandela a 'terrorist.'
At the same time, grave dancing is ghoulish.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)Humans know when a devil has died and yeah, they dance on the graves of the devils. Think anyone here doesn't still dance on the grave of Reagan? Who here won't dance on the graves of Cheney and Bush if either of them is actually mortal?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Ronald Reagan's death didn't feed a single hungry child.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)We all have our vices . . .
tavalon
(27,985 posts)Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)of his actions and policies as the mainstream media wallows in the whitewashing and repeated false mythology might have that effect.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)with gusto. No need to pretend they advanced the cause of humanity.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)And eventually excreted soil, which became vegetation, that was eaten by some food animal.
It all goes round and round and round.
Buns_of_Fire
(17,119 posts)It's hard to dance and urinate at the same time.
I like that one.
malaise
(267,784 posts)I agree 100%
Orsino
(37,428 posts)...just means, "Please give us a head start in spinning Thatcher's life."
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)iandhr
(6,852 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Wrong. As he says, NOW it the time to review the DAMAGE a public figure has done.
iandhr
(6,852 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Just like they did to Reagan and Nixon.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)and misrepresentation, though. And gone unanswered, it becomes assumed truth.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)It's the usual right-wing tactics to stifle people in focusing events.
Right after Sandy Hook and the Aurora shooting, the NRA penisheads all came out and demanded that we "tone things down" to be "respectful".
Now they're demanding we "tone things down" so they can get the spin machine going and beatify her like they did Reagan.
Fuck that shit.
I'M GLAD THAT BITCH IS DEAD!
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)about six nanoseconds!
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)They're all screaming to think of the grieving family members but were cheering recently over the death of Hugo Chavez without regard to his family.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)between
a) as Greenwald says "commemorating the bad acts" of a deceased person
and
b) just saying something hateful like "I am glad that evil piece of excrement is dead" or "I am gonna dance/piss on his/her grave".
The first I think is fully justified, whereas the latter, while it may be based on the first, is just spreading hate and shows a lack of class.
MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)Which old witch,
Why Mag the Hag, of course!
As posted to my facebook page!