Kansas set to enact life-starts-"at fertilization" abortion law

[RKP5637]

Here we go again ...

(Reuters) - Kansas is set to enact one of the most restrictive abortion laws in the nation which defines life as beginning "at fertilization" and imposes a host of new regulations.

The Kansas House of Representatives passed the bill 90-30 on Friday night, a few hours after the Senate backed it on a 28-10 vote. Strongly anti-abortion Republican Governor Sam Brownback is expected to sign it into law. Republicans hold strong majorities in both houses.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/06/us-usa-kansas-abortion-idUSBRE93501220130406

[longship]

1. Apparently KS Republicans cannot be circumcised.

There's no end to the pricks.

(Sorry. Couldn't resist. My bad.)

[RKP5637]

2. Perhaps castration might then work for them? n/t

[Archae]

3. You kidding?

None of them have the balls to stand up to the Jay-zus freaks and their "Handmaid's Tale" fantasies.

[Liberal Veteran]

4. It's only a matter of time before life begins at "impure thoughts".

[liberal N proud]

5. Before you know it they will determine lije starts at the orgasm

And the prosecute for all those wasted sperm.

[RKP5637]

9. Effective Immediately! In Brownbackinstan all unused sperm is to be

collected by the mandatory sperm collection bottle collected weekly by the state sperm van. Eggs may be kept refrigerated for future use.

[baldguy]

6. How long before they define life as starting with "the gleam in yer daddy's eye"?

[RKP5637]

11. Countdown: 10 9 8 7 6 5 ... almost there! n/t

[angstlessk]

16. Or when he throws his hat on your bed...(from WWII)

[fishing gal]

7. Stop moralizing others lives from religion .

I am so fed up with far right evangelicals pushing their personal belief system onto others with political power and legislating morality .

Historically, form our beginning, it has been stated to have a separation of church and state . Religion is a personal belief system that varies among many . Some are Atheist or Agnostic and they don't subscribe to the Bible or a God's preachings.

We are a Republic with representative elected legislators and they are sworn to represent the the peoples voice keeping in mind the principles of Democracy, where what is best for the majority prevails . Legislating morality is an abuse within government on a woman's body, sex drive, abortion, marriage equality, etc. Equal means equal .

If they don't want an abortion fine, don't get one . Don't force someone else to abide by your views or morals . Will you pay for the baby's care ? Counsel the mother if raped and traumatized with a fetus she doesn't want and perhaps can't support ?

I suggest , the GOP should stay out of others personal lives decisions that only affect them and their body primarily . It is their choice and their responsibility to decide what is best for them and live with it . Mind your own business and quit interfering with other's lives that have no real effect on yours .

Keep religion out of our government .

Spend more time on financial problem solving and worry about their own souls and decisions in their own lives.

[RKP5637]

13. Thank you!!! Extremely well said! I agree 100000% Welcome to DU!!!

[smirkymonkey]

25. Thank YOU!

And welcome to DU. Great post!

[AsahinaKimi]

57. welcome to DU

Agree!

[Ilsa]

8. "Life begins with the first drink ya buy her..." nt

[RKP5637]

15. K&R ! n/t

[OffWithTheirHeads]

10. These are all just attempts to get Roe V Wade before the supremes again

Before Obama can make any more appointments. They all know what they are doing won't pass a constitutional challenge under current law but when challenged they will just keep appealing until they get to Alito.

[cali]

28. Actually they're not. The powers behind this type of legislation aren't that stupid.

They know the odds of any of this personhood shit reaching the SCOTUS are vanishingly small. The legislation they're hoping to get in front of SCOTUS are the extreme TRAP bills that are all about state regulation. And they stand quite a good chance of not only getting those to the SCOTUS but winning.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

45. I stand corrected. Thanks.

[cali]

46. You're very welcome.

[hollysmom]

12. so does that mean

a man can get accused of preventative murder for a vasectomy or a woman for tubal litigation?
When will they start after women who have have hysterectomies? even those to save their lives?

Some people have never adjusted to women being in control of their own lives. Including some older women.

Smaller government - don't cha know

[RKP5637]

14. Always amazes me ... they speak of less gov., fewer laws, less gov. intrusion, less money spent,

less tax ... and then they pass outrageous and invasive crap like this.

[hollysmom]

17. it really drives me nuts

I don't see why people who claim to be liberitarian don't see it.

[RKP5637]

18. I think the bottom-line is they are control freaks and this gives them an excuse to

be the most invasive. It's really sick!

[Volaris]

40. it doesn't amaze me anymore, I figured it out over the past weeks time..

It goes like this:

The Randian Economic model possesses NO internal Moral Compass other than Avarice. To that end, it is ultimately self-defeating, it destroys itself (see: The 2008 Economic Collapse), because in essence, it's a system built on Human Vice. In order for ANY system deriving from Human Creation (and therefore, susceptible to human vices, regardless of internal safeguards), every system MUST have some kind of EXTERNAL Moral System that keeps it in check, that counter-balances that vice with Virtue.

The Christian Right in this country has decided, whether they thought about it or not, that the counterbalancing Morality to the EXPLICIT AND OPEN IMMORALITY of Randian-style Capitalism, is going to be the Christian Value system: individual acts of charity, family as Moral Center of Civic life, etc, and that REQUIRES an interventionist Government that supports that Moral System.

LIBERALS, on the other hand, have decided that there is a more effective way of counterbalancing the vapidness of Rand: by Empowering our ELECTED Government to impose Moral limits on that system, that reflect NOT on any particular spiritual code but rather on what is good for CIVILIZATION AS A WHOLE, and most of the time, we agree that nothing about those limitations is absolute, because attitudes can change over time, reflecting different "spectra's" of Morality as they do. THEY want a lot of small acts of INDIVIDUAL Morality, (a lot of little weights on the other side of the Scale) and WE prefer to decide that one large weight does the same job, but MUCH MORE EFFICIENTLY (as evidenced by the fact that if THEY had been right, there would have been NO internal popular desire for a program like The New Deal; all of those people in poverty would have just been helped by their families, neighbors, whathaveyou).

The men who wrote the Constitution understood the DIFFERENCE between these two things, and made a choice to embrace the latter, even if the Immoral System of the day was not Randian Capitalism, but rather, Rule by Divine Right or other such nonsense.


What the Right wants is NOT Small Government. That would mean the complete collapse of the balanced system they have set up by which to govern their intellectual worldview. What they NEED for this to work the way they envision it is Theocracy by Moral Necessity (as in, by Proxy), since the Constitution doesn't allow them to have it DIRECTLY.

Know you know.

If anyone has anything to add, sees holes in my logic, or thinks this is just flat wrong-headed, let me know=)

[HappyMe]

42. Sshhhhh!

They will hear you.

They will decide that life begins when you have a dinner date.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

19. Life Begins When The Man Gets A Half-Chub

[RKP5637]

20. Yep! n/t

[TimberValley]

21. So, if life doesn't start at conception........

where does it start exactly?

[RKP5637]

22. I think you missed the point ... n/t

[2ndAmForComputers]

56. It started when the first self-replicating molecule managed to copy itself, billions of years ago.

From there on, it's all a continuum of life.

Your point was?

[HiPointDem]

23. and where's the push-back?

[RKP5637]

24. Apparently, this is what many Kansans want. They did kick out of office most

democrats, as well as moderate republicans ... so, remaining, is a house and senate, plus the governorship, all RW. Little is mentioned for the most part of any push back.

[HiPointDem]

31. i doubt it.

[RKP5637]

33. There seems to be a naivety in KS. IMO people are too trusting and follow the flock in terms of

listening to those preaching American values and rolling that into their agenda. IMO they don't look behind the curtain to see who the wizard(s) really are ... People in KS are actually quite nice ... and IMO get suckered into this RW BS.

[HiPointDem]

34. seems that's a problem everywhere in the world. the wizards set the agenda.

[cali]

26. Does NOT ban abortion from conception.

Let's be clear: This piece of the legislation doesn't do a thing to restrict abortion. That's right. NOT A THING. NADA. ZIP.

It's designed for two things: To swiftly outlaw all abortion if Roe is overturned in the SCOTUS and to obscure or take the heat off the onerous TRAP legislation parts of the bill that damn well does radically restrict abortion. Oh, and a third reason: pure politics.

from the Reuters article:

If the bill is signed into law, Kansas will become the eighth state declaring that life begins at fertilization, said Elizabeth Nash, state issues manager of the pro-choice Guttmacher Institute, which researches abortion-related laws nationwide.

While it would not supplant Kansas law banning most abortions after the 22nd week of pregnancy, it does set the state up to more swiftly outlaw all abortions should the U.S. Supreme Court revisit its 1973 ruling making abortion legal, Nash said.

[RKP5637]

29. Thanks cali for the additional clarification !!! n/t

[sufrommich]

32. I wonder how many women will have to die

in botched back alley abortions before this generation realizes why legal,safe access to abortion was fought for so rigorously.

[cali]

35. That is the question.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

27. The important issue here is "how long will it last for".

In the long term, this clearly isn't a problem - it will be struck down as soon as it reaches the SCOTUS, if not before.

The worry is that that may take a long time, and that in the interim a lot of women may be denied access to abortion until it's too late.

Does anyone know how long it usually takes things like this to get overturned?


On edit: post 26 above makes clear that I'd misunderstood this legislation, and that this question is not in fact relevant.

[RKP5637]

30. Take a look at post #26 from cali, just came in about same time

as yours. Cali provides some addition insight into this.

[cali]

36. the question is relevant and it's worth asking.

Most anti-abortion legislation that is clearly unconstitutional under Roe is swiftly enjoined so that the law cannot take effect until the case runs its course through the court system.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

37. So this is basically a symbolic gesture (possibly as a cover for things that aren't)? N.T.

[cali]

38. Political, in place if Roe is overturned and a red herring

[Laochtine]

39. Flee

Flee, fuck these nutters.

[RKP5637]

47. It's going to get worse and worse. n/t

[Laochtine]

55. I can't even

Imagine what their poor lizard brains are thinking up. They need to be cut off from females. Eff the Taliban wherever they dwell

[RKP5637]

58. Exactly!!! Lizard brains don't let their owners experience more complex states like ...

Sometimes I think David Vaughan Icke is right on ... below is excerpt from someone else ...

Lizard brains don't let their owners experience more complex states like loyalty. When an alligator lays her eggs, she leaves them. The baby alligators emerge fully programmed for life and as fierce as she is. The babies fend for themselves from the first breath. They have to. Their mother, father, and any other alligator will happily have them as lunch.

About 100 million years ago, loyalty appeared on Earth. Mammals emerged. They have more complex brains than reptiles. Specifically, mammals have a large brain that grew on top of the lizard brain. Dogs have two brains. They have the lizard brain, which forms a bump at the top of the spinal cord. This brain controls breathing and basic functions just as in lizards. It is hardwired to make mammals get turned on by sex, move automatically away from danger, and be able to defend territories. So much, so lizard.

Mammals’ new layer of brain—called the limbic system—is more complex. It is more densely wired and allows for richer experience. Dogs experience love and loyalty, as anyone knows who has one. Dogs are as adept at positive emotional attachment as we, and sometimes clearer about it.

http://www.threes.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2472:humans-have-three-brains&catid=70:science&Itemid=52

[protect our future]

41. So far I've neither seen nor heard anything about

transvaginal ultrasound in the local media. As soon as Brownback signs this monstrosity into law, we'll probably start hearing about it...when it's too late. How else does one determine, with any degree of accuracy, when fertilization occurred?

[cali]

43. the fertilization crap is a red herring. the onerous part of this legislation

is the TRAP stuff. (targeted regulation of abortion providers) the fertilized egg nonsense does not change a thing.

[protect our future]

44. Sure, but avoiding any talk about ultrasound

and the pain, et cetera, associated with it enables this legislation to be easily passed without any stumbling blocks. That's the point I was trying to make. I'm sorry if I was unclear.

[RKP5637]

48. Yep, that's when the 'deer in the headlight' people will wake up and

say WTF, how could've this happened. And then, as you say, it's too late.

[MarcoS]

49. So if you ever wondered

How "Islamic Republics" justify cutting the hands off of convicted masturbators, here's your answer. If human fetuses are human than certainly human sperm are human too.

Amazing how this "religious liberty" works.

[RKP5637]

50. It knows no end, is delusional, and in the big picture leads to a really fucked up society. n/t

[ZombieHorde]

51. Yikes. This is not good. nt

[RKP5637]

52. Not at all, it's becoming a frightening place. I doubt this RW march will

cease. In the last election(s) they elected mostly all RW teabaggers. Democrats tend to be a rarity, and they voted out almost all moderate republicans that did not move/agree with the RW hardliners.

What I see happening is more and more people moving to KS that love this type of environment. It's also even a place where just being LGBT is a criminal/jailable offense. Cops can lock you up and then plead ignorance to the fed laws ... and then the judge releases one. I don't know how prevalent this occurs ... but I've been told it does happen.

Also, they tried to pass a law wherein medical personal could deny one treatment if they thought they were LGBT. They could claim it offends their religion. That almost passed, but back then the Dem senate stopped it ... the Dem senate is now long gone.

It is strange ...

[ZombieHorde]

53. Holy shit. nt

[RKP5637]

54. Yep, welcome to Brownbackistan. Even a song has been done ...