Be careful what we say in response to the death of Pastor Warren's son.

[Ken Burch]

We don't know what happened with this young man.

The loss of one's child is the worst thing that can happen to a person, no matter who that person is.

And the Right will be monitoring this site for insensitivity.

And WE are supposed to be the folks that DO do empathy.

Until we know MUCH more, we need to be very, very watchful as to what we post on this subject.

[LittleBlue]

1. Suicide can happen to any family

It's always a tragedy.

[Rex]

2. Be careful? He killed himself! I would hope we aren't going to

make jokes about his dead son.

[malaise]

9. I feel pain for that young man but when you have raked in the cash with a bestseller called

The Purpose Driven Life - What On Earth Am I Here For? you must expect comments after such a tragedy. You see many snake oil salesmen fool everyone but those with whom they live.

[Rex]

10. Oh don't get me started, I HATE the father.

I notice a lot of people here do. Wait...the SON wrote that book or the father did?

[malaise]

12. The father - which is why it's news

The son has never been a public figure. It has nothing to do with the poor young man and I weep for him.

[Rex]

13. WOW.

That just makes one sit and ponder so many different things. If you would have said the son wrote it, I would almost ask if that was a hidden message for help now that we know his outcome.

I hope the father does some massive introspection.

[malaise]

17. I had a colleague who actually bought the book

years ago. Lots of Fundies in these parts. It was a huge best seller.

Check this out - of course it's updated - send more cash
http://purposedriven.com/books/pdlbook/#purpose

[Rex]

19. I see you can buy it at Wal-Mart.

Looks horrible.

[malaise]

24. Hahahah - didn't read that far

but that should tell us who he's trying to fool

[Rex]

26. Ya another blabbermouth with all the answers

should sell like hotcakes at Wal-Mart.

[mountain grammy]

38. I had a boss who read it and tried to live it. She was insufferable.

[malaise]

41. You're cracking me up here

[Amaril]

111. Same with one of my ex co-workers

Thank "God" I don't work there anymore. I finally had to block her on Facebook as well (I friended her years ago before she got uber weird). Insufferable just about sums it up.

[BlueStreak]

34. You don't think growing up in the house of a religious con man can be a factor in mental illness?

Of course it is a tragedy, but we should not ignore the obvious things any more than we would ignore it when a gay-bashing preacher is exposed as frequenting male prostitutes or the church of celibacy turns out to be riddled with perverts.

We don't know all the details, that's for sure. But there seems to be "probable cause" for some connections.

[malaise]

46. Good post

I'm not ignoring the obvious things hence my comments on the book

[Hekate]

71. Two of my dearest and most generous hearted friends have children who...

... became schizophrenic.

A wonderful man who found new love, but whose troubled son cracked up and knifed his new stepmom to death. A wonderful spiritual woman whose daughter began hallucinating terribly in her teens -- fortunately she has survived, though will never be "normal." These people do not know each other, and their circumstances could not be more different: one had money to burn, and the other not two nickels to rub together, yet both tried and tried and tried to get help for their respective kids.

I will not presume to judge anyone's family on the basis of such little information as we have about the Warren family. They will live with this grief forever.

[Honeycombe8]

82. +1. A compassionate response. No one, no group, is spared from mental illness.

White, black, brown, tall, short, rich, poor, religious, atheistic, gay, straight, female, male, Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, apolitical, politician, lawyer, sanitation worker.

[MADem]

3. All we know right now is that he killed himself. I saw a brief blurb on MSNBC.

Edit to add link that provides a bit of background: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/06/17632420-pastor-rick-warrens-son-matthew-commits-suicide-church-says?lite

[840high]

53. I;m sorry to hear that.

[trumad]

4. you will find that DU is pretty good about this stuff...

Unlike the douchebag websites on the right.

Now when Cheney kicks it...all bets are off.

[Rex]

5. Ya I won't expect this place to be a fountain of empathy

when Tricky Dick II leaves this realm. A young man at 27 killed himself...that is tragic no matter who it is.

[nolabear]

7. Actually LBN is giving me a case of the creeps right now. Thanks for the post. RIP

Such a sad thing. So much pain.

[iandhr]

36. Same

There are cruel a**h**** everywhere.

[Initech]

8. Cheney has been technically dead for the last two years.

I'm surprised he's still alive but when that mad man finally kicks the bucket it's fair game.

[malaise]

48. More than fair game

I'll be popping the cork

[rhett o rick]

122. Cheney made a deal with the devil and will someday have to pay his dues.

I think there is a special place for him.

[Initech]

130. There's definitely a special place in hell for the BFEE.

I saw a supermarket tabloid tonight with Bush's picture on it and the words "SAD LAST DAYS" ( ), and I don't care if he dies but I want him to come clean on where he was on 11/22/1963 before he does. That's all, then he can answer to Satan.

[Ken Burch]

21. You're assuming Cheney WILL kick it.

I strongly suspect he's been an android since at least the mid-80's.

[Douglas Carpenter]

30. the existence of Dick Cheney - could almost convince me of David Icke's lizard people theory

But I am said for Pastor Warren and the son and family. I have had suicides within my family and it leaves a deep darkness to everyone it effects.

[RKP5637]

101. Yep! I think he's actually now a medical experiment in endless life extension. I was

listening to this program the other night about eventual progress in, basically, lifting ones personality and basically downloading it to a cloned body before death ... hence creating a like individual in a new body, with the same personality and accumulated knowledge.

Yep, OK, it's really creepy and thankfully far off ... but first thought to my mind was Cheney ... imagine having tyrants live on forever in some despotic place.

[awoke_in_2003]

42. When that fucker kicks it...

I am going to party like it's 1999.

[Janecita]

59. Saving a bottle of Taittinger Rosé for that day!!

[Initech]

6. I hate the man, but this isn't the time to grave dance.

I'll hit the alert button left and right if I see it, despite what I feel.

[BlueStreak]

35. And you were appointed board monitor, when?

[awoke_in_2003]

45. With the alert system...

we are all board monitors.

[BlueStreak]

47. I would call your attention to the TOU, specifically

"Don't threaten anyone"

"Don't do anything else which is similarly disruptive."

I may have to open an alert on the threat to open alerts on the basis of that being threatening and disruptive.

Or maybe we can all just mind our own business. How about it?

[awoke_in_2003]

49. Who is threatening you?...

The poster who said he would alert on inappropriate posts, or me for pointing out that the alert feature is part of the monitoring process? If you think either is a threat then you must not be able to have any human interactions.

[Initech]

50. I only said I would alert grave dancers.

Rick Warren may be an evil, hateful, bigoted man but something like this people shouldn't be grave dancing. Man, talk about what I said being blown out of proportion.

[awoke_in_2003]

88. You misunderstand...

I don't think you posted anything threatening. I was responding to someone who thought either you or I were somehow threatening them. There was nothing wrong on your post.

[notadmblnd]

11. I imagine his parents happened to him

[russspeakeasy]

23. You win !!

[enough]

52. I'm wondering if you make this same judgement about everyone who

kills himself or herself?

[Bluenorthwest]

14. I hope we speak with more humanity than Warren has in the past when asked about

suicides by gay youth and the connection to Evangelical attacks on them. He was extremely dismissive and self serving when asked about it on CNN. So I hope we are better toward them than they have been toward others.

[W_HAMILTON]

18. What did he say about the suicides? n/t

n/t

[99Forever]

15. i wouldn't say ugly things about the guy's suicide..

... because it's the decent way to act, but I don't give a damn that some freakin' righties might be "monitoring this site" and might say bad things about us. Like those scumbags have ever had anything good to say about DU anyway.

[Ken Burch]

22. I'm just saying don't GIVE them ammo. n/t.

[99Forever]

54. Like they need "ammo"..

... to be assholes.

Dude, I couldn't care any less what they say about ANYTHING.

[tblue]

16. I'd never be that mean.

It's a personal tragedy that I wouldn't not wish on anybody. I have no idea what their relationship was like. I hope he felt his parents loved and stood by him. It would be the most terrible thing if he didn't.

[Marrah_G]

20. I feel badly for the son. Depression is so painful.

The father.... sorry, got nothing for him. Maybe he will learn from this and become a decent human being.

[jimlup]

80. Maybe but not likely

As we probably see in the desperation of the son. A sad story for sure.

[onpatrol98]

108. I feel sorry for him.

There's nothing like losing a child. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. When you bring these frail little beings home with you from the hospital, you don't ever expect to lose them this way. His young son is gone. It is his family and friends that I wish solace for. They are the ones still here who must go on without him. Always wondering what they could've done, but never knowing. I pray they find peace.

[liberal_at_heart]

25. I hadn't heard about this. I am so sorry for his loss.

[DinahMoeHum]

27. I'm no fan of Rick Warren, but I feel sorry for him right now.

This situation he faces sucks big time, and there's no way around it.

[BlueStreak]

37. Sorrow is not the word that comes to mind for me

It is a terrible loss, but I don't give a damn about that guy's feelings. It is very sad that a young life won't be lived. Rather than sorrow, I hope that Pastor Warren uses this as a time to examine who he is and gets out of the religious fraud business. Mr. Warren, do something deserving with the rest of your life.

[amuse bouche]

28. Be careful?

Kowtowing to the evil right is against my 'religion'

[babsbunny]

29. I ain't sayin' nothin'

My Sister committed suicide on 1/16/13. I feel their pain...........

[beveeheart]

39. I am so sorry for your loss.

[Maraya1969]

44. I am so sorry for your loss.

[Hekate]

73. I'm so sorry for your loss

[Mnemosyne]

87. Oh babsbunny, I am so sorry. I've dealt with too many myself.

[Le Taz Hot]

94. Oh, wow, babsbunny!

How terrible for you and your family. My deepest condolences.

[cbayer]

31. Agree. I think this is one of those times for this: "If you can't say something nice,

don't say anything at all."

[SteveG]

32. My heart goes out to his family

Having lost an adult son to Leukemia a number of years ago, I have full sympathy for the Warren family. It appears that the son had a history of mental health issues, and I suspect the family has been dealing with the issue for some time. Be at peace young man.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

33. Agreed.

[catbyte]

40. I can only imagine what hell it was for that poor kid. I was a cop's daughter &

the kids of cops & preachers have a special burden. To have a smarmy con man disguised as a "Man of God" for a father must have been just awful. May he now rest in peace.

[kestrel91316]

129. I dunno. My dad's father was a deputy sheriff and small town chief of police.

My dad turned out very well and was always close to his parents.

Not all cops are asshats. My grandfather AND grandmother were lifelong registered Democrats in spite of their rural ranching and law enforcement lives.

[catbyte]

133. My dad was great too, but I always had to act just so because I didn't want people to think badly of

him. You're just expected to act better than the other kids. My dad was awesome and I miss him every day of my life--he was a Marine Raider in WWII, a police officer and a good Democrat.

[JI7]

43. what is there to say other than it was something Horrible

this isn't Rick WArren himself in which case we could criticize things he has said and done .

[Spitfire of ATJ]

51. "the Right will be monitoring this site for insensitivity."

You are talking about the people that did this:

[Apophis]

55. Then I better not say what I was thinking.

[Skip Intro]

56. The reason to be respectful about this isn't because of what the right

might think of our comments.

The reason to be respectful about this is because we're decent human beings.

[Adsos Letter]

63. +1. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

So they say.

[cherokeeprogressive]

74. I wonder who DUers might hold in higher disregard; Warren, or Tony Snow. Remember when Snow died?

Man oh man I remember feeling vibrations through my feet from all the grave dancing DUers were doing.

Odd that people would be more respectful of Warren's feelings given the general distaste for religion here.

[MADem]

76. Tony Snow, a TV talking head who said some nasty things about Democrats, died.

Rick Warren, a homophobic preacher, is not dead. His CHILD is dead.

There's a difference when a public figure who has had plenty to say about politics passes, and when the private citizen offspring of public figures dies.

I'm sure plenty of people, not just the father of this young man, are mourning his death.

[amuse bouche]

83. Warren supported

Uganda's "Kill the Gays Bill'

These pigs can't even keep their bigotry out of other countries.

He deserves no respect

[BlancheSplanchnik]

95. not about respect for the father,

It's about remebering who WE are and practicing intelligence and empathy--the qualities that define Liberalism.

Intelligence--the poor kid has *nothing* to do with who the father is.

Empathy--poor kid deserves some. It probably was not pleasant growing up.

[amuse bouche]

97. I don't believe in being a phony

Clearly, you believe otherwise

[BlancheSplanchnik]

98. its the father that's a phony...not the son.

Sorry if I sounded like I was getting on your case when I posted. I didn't mean it personally at you.

And no, I don't feel phony about my viewpoint here.

[amuse bouche]

102. Yes and the son is dead

He doesn't hear a damn word anyone says

And apology accepted.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

103. who knows, there may have some Truth the kid wished people knew

about his family.

[hfojvt]

89. I didn't find that much

this LBN thread is split 50-50 or maybe even 60-40 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3392237

a thread in GD seemed to be mostly positive or neutral, except perhaps for 3 deleted messages. Maybe from trolls, who knows what they said now? Anyway, they were not approved by the moderators.

So far, I am not seeing all that much respect for Warren. Perhaps the same 50-50 split or maybe even 40-60.

[JI7]

90. you might be thinking of Reagan or Breitbart, but it was sad when Tony Snow died

i was sad. i thought he was an ok guy. i disagreed with him but didn't find him hateful. plus we watched him as he was getting closer to death since he was on tv discussing his illness and life. i remember reading i think his mother had died of the same thing.

[Niceguy1]

57. sorry for his loss

Not a time for politics, time to take the moral high ground.

[MarcoS]

106. Moral high ground

in this case would be to ask Rick Warren if Matthew was gay, and then ask him if he believes or disbelieves the Biblical edict that people who engage in homosexuality are to be put to death. Both questions require simple yes or no answers.

Did anyone happen to catch Rick Warren's comment, that his son "chose" to not be "healed" of his depression? Somebody needs to explain how it's possible for anyone to choose to have a mental illness.

[Niceguy1]

118. sounds like being a

Bully to me.

[amuse bouche]

123. Not only that

But the family is saying the son was mentally ill since birth. That seems absurd

These people are assholes

[Thinkingabout]

58. Suicide is very difficult to deal for with for the family. Having this happen to my family members

There are a lot of answered questions for the family. At one service the minister explained that unless you have had feelings of suicide yourself you do not understand what this person felt in their life. It us so important to respond to those around you, and always let all your loved ones know they are loved and have a very special place in your heart.

[Festivito]

60. Remember though, we have ex-Republicans who have not figured it all out yet.

Even big Ed took a few years to get that some of his entrenched ideas no longer held together.

[deutsey]

61. Bishop Pike (if DU'ers know of this ultra-liberal Episcopalian Bishop)

also had a son who killed himself back in the '60s.

Terrible shit happens whether you're conservative, liberal, moderate, theist, atheist, whatever...what's needed here with Warren is basic, decent humanity.

[IrishAyes]

92. I remember Bishop Pike

with great fondness. He had feet of clay like the rest of us, but he earned his time on this earth.

[Adsos Letter]

62. I can't imagine the pain this young man's family must be going through.

As a father who loves his own family: I hope they can find some comfort for their grief.

[Walk away]

64. If I were convinced that my pain would never go away...

and I was suffering, I would kill myself as well. He was a consenting adult so I respect his decision. The only tragic thing would be if he was brainwashed by religion into expecting that he would be in Heaven. That would be really sad.

[zeemike]

65. You need not worry about me.

I will say nothing about him but that I am sorry for his death...even to his father...Well really especially to him...he should know, love them that hate you said the master.

That is something those right wingers do all the time, and if you do it to get even with them then you legitimize it...
Two wrongs makes a war.

[riverbendviewgal]

66. Exactly

It is sad for someone to kill themselves.

Let us be kind. and comforting. It is the right way/

[valerief]

67. We can still say his father is a soulless bastard, right? nt

[The Second Stone]

68. My heart goes out to his family and friends

this is an awful tragedy.

[IrishEyes]

69. My condolences to his family.

May he rest in peace.

[Hekate]

70. Thanks so much for this statement, Ken Burch

I would not wish this grief on my worst enemy.

[Rob H.]

72. It must be a terrible time for his family

No parent should have to bury their child.

[mainer]

75. Reportedly a suicide by gunshot

So sad.

[Deep13]

77. Odd that Jesus didn't protect him.

But then under most versions of Christianity suicide is the end result of despair which constitutes a rejection of the Holy Spirit: the one unforgivable sin.

[IrishAyes]

93. Not in my version of Christianity

Never.

[TimberValley]

99. No, I don't think suicide is the unforgivable sin, even though it is a sin. n/t.

[etherealtruth]

78. As a human, a mother, and the "survivor" of a suicide of someone close

I have nothing but compassion for this family.

This is a horror and loss no one should have to endure.

[Kalidurga]

79. I hope this young man didn't die in vain.

Too many young people kill themselves with guns. I would hope at some point Pastor Warren could address that issue, but I somehow doubt he will. That shouldn't stop us from addressing the issue though and I have seen it addressed here occasionally. It is tragic what happened and I don't know how avoidable it was. But, we should be diligent in reducing the risk of our young people killing themselves like this, it's no less tragic than homicide.

And I do feel for his family. A friend of my children killed himself and they were all very shook up about it and saw first hand how much grief it caused his family as well.

[elfin]

81. I want to know why there was a gun in that house

That sad young man was so deeply depressed for so long with longing to be released from his pain.

Why have a gun around in those circumstances?

Yes, if really determined, he could choose another method, but a gun makes what may have been a transitory impulse so much easier.

he was obviously loved by his parents. Why didn't they take that one extra step to keep him as safe from himself as they could?

[Adsos Letter]

84. I suspect that is a question they'll struggle with for many years to come.

[okasha]

125. Apparently Matthew died

in his own home, not his parents'. They may not have known he had a weapon.

[AnnieBW]

85. At least they got help for him

A lot of evangelicals are still of the opinion that mental illness is caused by possession by demons. Seriously.

I'm very sad to know that Rev. Warren's son was mentally ill, and that he took his life. I hope that he finds the peace that he needs in the next life.

[BainsBane]

86. I'm sorry to hear about this death

How sad for their family.

[IrishAyes]

91. I agree

How can I expect the other side to behave any better than I do? Well, actually I usually CAN'T expect much from them, but I don't want to wallow in the mud with them either.

Especially since I'm one of too many to lose a child, that's a tragedy I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. It's a biblical injunction to weep with those who weep, after all.

[TimberValley]

96. Seems that despite this thread, many people still made insensitive comments nonetheless. n/t.

[HappyMe]

100. I can't even begin to understand the pain

the family feels.

The death of a child is horrible, no matter who your family is.

[RoccoR5955]

104. All I have been saying is

Can we NOW have restrictions on guns?
How many will STILL say that guns don't kill people until we realize that without guns there would be fewer deaths like this one?

[amuse bouche]

107. Thank You

All this empathy for an asshole is vile. Would they feel the same way about the death of a family member of their mom's rapist? No, they would probably believe the rapist had something to do with the death

[G_j]

109. hello? we are talking about his son, not him

that was nasty

[cordelia]

114. Excessively nasty.

[amuse bouche]

120. Truth is truth

[amuse bouche]

121. Nothing affects the son now

Truth is nasty? That's your interpretation.

[vankuria]

110. My heart goes out to Pastor Warrens' family and

anyone that loses a child. I don't care what their political persuasion or religion, because we are all bonded by our common humanity. And if this family did perhaps make some mistakes in raising their son, show me a parent that hasn't. I'm certainly not going to pass judgement on them, they are experiencing every parents worst nightmare.

[LWolf]

113. Why would I,

a mother of sons, mock or make light of ANYONE's loss? "Supposed to be?" I DO empathy, and, unlike way too many Americans of all political orientations, it crosses political boundaries.

[broadcaster75201]

115. Fortunately, I haven't seen any insensitive comments anywhere nt

nt

[Paladin]

116. Out of simple human decency, I wouldn't make such comments.

But I would never be constrained by any sort of right-wing insensitivity monitoring, much less any expectation that we're supposed to be the side that does empathy. Conservatives threw away the rule book long ago, and I see no point in adhering to good conduct handicaps in day-to-day matters.

[Ken Burch]

128. good

Thanks for the common humanity.

[alfredo]

117. It is sad that suicide was seen as the only solution.

[secondvariety]

119. I've never

been a believer in the "sins of the father" crap. Let the poor guy rest in peace.

[Sander]

124. Each man's death diminishes me

No Man Is An Island

No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.

John Donne

[Ken Burch]

126. Thanks for that. n/t.

[southernyankeebelle]

127. I had a very dear cousin who jumped to her death. She was ill for many many years. She would

cry for no reason. In and out of the best hospital in the world. They even took her to Lourdes. Nothing but death could finally put her out of her pain. She couldn't even tell you why she was the way she was. She had loving parents and came from a upper middle class family. When mental illness hits it hurts the family to see because they really don't have the power to help them because they can't even help themselves. He is out of his pain.

[Safetykitten]

131. Why?

[Apophis]

132. Fuck Rick Warren.

He doesn't care about my LGBT brothers and sisters, why the hell should I care about him?