Based on your experiences, please enlighten me about poverty in other countries

[OneGrassRoot]

I watched "American Winter," an HBO documentary. Every single US citizen should watch this, especially anyone still spouting the "welfare queen" destructive meme, imho. (I'm trying to find out if there are plans to air it beyond HBO; I had a free preview and am glad I did, because it's an excellent piece.)

It made me wonder how poverty is both experienced and perceived in other countries.

I don't intend for this to be a comparison of poverty (suffering is suffering); I'm simply trying to understand how it's experienced and viewed culturally in these modern times in other countries.

Part of what we're witnessing is New Poverty here in the US, people who were formerly in the middle class for the last generation or two. To me it seems part of those suffering here in the US -- aside from the multifaceted despair of living and working in poverty that manifests in so many ways -- is shame. The pain is largely hidden because of this shame and our general societal "bootstrap/rugged individualist" mentality.

People are living in dire straits while their neighbors, who are basically okay (they have food, no worry of losing their home at any moment, utilities, etc) and have no idea of their neighbor's struggle until the eviction/foreclosure notice goes up. Our media shoves opulence and "The American Dream" down our throats at every turn, exacerbating the shame and despair for so many.

It made me wonder how, in these modern times, poverty is experienced and perceived, culturally, in other countries?

EDIT TO ADD: I'm trying to understand the societal mindset in other countries, both from the perspective of those living in poverty, and those who aren't.

[OneGrassRoot]

1. kicking, hoping for insight n/t

[Quantess]

2. I'm in Sweden right now

and I am not seeing a whole lot of grinding poverty. Not like in the states...

[OneGrassRoot]

5. Thanks, Quantess. n/t

[raccoon]

3. I was on a week-long mission trip in Honduras a few years ago.

The people in the neighborhoods we went to lived in wooden shacks made of boards you could see daylight through. The floors were dirt. they had no running water, no power except I understand sometimes they pirated power--or cable TV. No indoor plumbing, of course.

They had basically no health care, dental or vision care. That's why we were there, with dental clinics, eye clinics, etc. They came from far off and stood in lines to get help.

I think every American who's middle class or higher ought to see that kind of poverty. Ever since my visit, I can't stand to see drinkable water wasted or somebody's trees toilet-papered. In third world countries, toilet paper is a fucking luxury.

[OneGrassRoot]

4. Raccoon, here is my question...

What was the general attitude of the people you were visiting in the Honduras?

Was their situation generally shared by everyone else in their local community?

Were they looked down upon as having made poor decisions and thus deserving of their situation by others in their community?

I think most people in America are familiar with the heart-wrenching images of poverty as you describe in other countries.

I don't think they realize that the same scenario is taking place here, in the States, where -- yes -- toilet paper, diapers, feminine products are very hard to come by and are a luxury for people. The same with healthcare, of course.

And their judgment about fellow citizens makes the despair sooooooooo much worse, not to mention that this generally judgmental mindset affects policy as well.

[raccoon]

17. In answer to your first question, I don't know--wasn't there that long. Second question, yes.

I don't know if other Hondurans in a higher SES looked down on them; didn't talk to any.

But I was in Mexico at a language school, staying with a Mexican family. I would call them middle-class.
The man of the house seemed to think poor people were just lazy. Never mind that there weren't that many jobs in the area and most of them didn't pay jack, that's why so many people in Mexico are selling trinkets.

[OneGrassRoot]

19. Thank you. :)

I appreciate it. I'm trying to wrap my brain around human nature nowadays.

[a la izquierda]

6. I spent 8 months in various parts of Mexico.

The poverty, as well as the wealth, is staggering.
Let me put it this way: I completely understand why people migrate here illegally. Eighty year old women begging in the streets. Women with infants that are so malnourished the woman have a vacant stare in their eyes and the infants cry incessantly. Little children forced to work in traffic for pennies.

I came back from my dissertation research profoundly changed. Depressed, pessimistic, and honestly not afraid of anything anymore. I have very little patience for whining about "first world problems." I am sickened by governments that do nothing for the most vulnerable.

[Cleita]

9. When I worked in the restaurant business I once asked one of the kitchen

workers why he came here. He was only sixteen years old. I guess he had been working making decorative tiles in a factory in Mexico since he was ten years old. He told me he made $1.50 a day doing that. Here he was making $3.75 an hour, which was minimum wage at the time. It's not hard to understand at all.

[OneGrassRoot]

10. Thank you. n/t

[etherealtruth]

7. In developing countries? Industrialized countries?

Under oppressive totalitarian regimes?

I would say the US does poorly when compared to other similarly developed countries.

How we treat the poorest members of our society is evidence of some very uncomplimentary forces within our society.

[OneGrassRoot]

11. Indeed. I agree.

I'm interested in all types of societies; it's the societal mindset I'm interested in.

[Cleita]

8. I lived in Chile for a while and traveled around South America a lot.

There is grinding poverty, but one thing that the dispossessed can do in those countries is build shelters for themselves out of whatever scraps they can find of wood, tin or even newspapers. We don't allow our homeless to do the same and instead routinely tear down their cardboard boxes and other shelters they try to build for themselves. The poor also can build campfires to keep warm and cook on, another thing we don't let our homeless do. Public sanitation in some places is almost non-existent so relieving yourself out in public happens. I have had to raise my skirt on occasion behind a bush or rock when I couldn't make it home. Also, some governments including Chile give everyone family allowances for their children. It's not a whole lot, but enables the parents to buy food for their children. In many poor families everyone works, but the wages are so very low, it's barely enough to survive.

[OneGrassRoot]

12. Thank you, Cleita.

Your insight is appreciated.

I'm trying to understand the societal mindset in other countries, both from the perspective of those living in poverty, and those who aren't.

[Cleita]

13. I should have added. That in many countries in SA poverty is attached to class.

The poor are mostly the indigenous people enslaved by the conquistadors and those brought over as slaves. The rich for the most part are the elite who own everything. You will see the rich are whiter and more European looking kind of like me than the poor who more resemble the Indian. Also, if you don't come from a certain family you will never get a good job. Anybody from the slums will not be hired for certain prestigious jobs no matter how educated he is. This is why Hugo Chavez had so many enemies among his own people. A person of Indian blood from the slums has no right to be President in the minds of those elitists. I am talking about fifty years ago, so I hope maybe there has been more social mobility since then, but I still think some customs and mores are hard to shake. My mother always impressed on me the fact that you were born into your class and that you would stay there no matter how much or how little money you made.

[olddots]

14. thank you for mentioning American Winter

I posted a blurb about it the week before it came out on HBO...


this is a very important movie --its first generation poverty ,these people are not dumb they are us all of us.

[OneGrassRoot]

15. Hi, olddots. I posted this as well:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022625428

[Nikia]

16. I have talked to a number of privleged students from third world countries

Who had a much greater hatred for the poor than pretty much any American that I have personally met. I didn't really know what to say. I just hope that America doesn't become like that.

[TimberValley]

18. I've been to China.

People don't really help each other. It's a very callous culture over there. I think it's especially so when you have a vast population like China's - human life just isn't considered to be worth as much in China as it is here in the United States.

Very depressing country in that regard. And even the poor were often greedy or deceptive as well. Very cold country.