Suppose Obama is bluffing, so what?

[DonCoquixote]

Now, I am one of the people that gets called a cheerleader. I, even today, do not regret my votes in 2008 or in 2012, as he was the best card toplay out of the hand dealt. Howeever, i am going to switch gears.

Let's say, we know, with all the certainty of 2 + 2=4, that we know Obama is bluffing, AND we know that the GOP will not call the bluff because it is not nearly close to what they want.

Again, let's say we know this one one hundred percent certainty, one that is so certain that even the Skeptics that engage in arguments say "yes, this is a damn fact, jack."

This is still a terrible idea, and a damned bad game of chess. Not that Obama has not made some good chess moves before, but this is stupid, why?

Because, even in this day and age of "shades of grey" where the idea of an absolute truth gets whittled to atoms day by bay, there has to be some line, some quality, something that defines what you are, no matter what. The Yankees and the Red Sox may be similar in thousands of ways, they may even play similar, but there has to be something that says "I am this, you are that." The Democrats just breached that, because just as undoing FDR's changes is what defines the GOP, supporting FDR's legacy is what used to define us.

Now, if we were some culture like, let's say France, we might be able to handle changes easily, after all, a nuance here or there is enough to define something, even if all you can offer for an explanation is that brand A has a certain "je nais se qua" or "Savoir faire." Americans are not that sort, they need tanglible,postable, debatable lines beign drawn, and once lines are crossed, we have a much harder time going back on those lines, meaning in this case,once social security is on the table, it stays there.

I am not even worried as much about what a President Jeb or Rubio might do, we know where they stand, even if they bathe themselves in soap to get W's stink off them, What i worry about are what the Bookers, Emmauels, and yes, President Hillary Clintons might do, because now they can play with terms.

So, that is why I say this was a bad move. Do I think the GOp will bite, they cannot, because Koch and company are not going to pay half a billion dollars to get half a loaf, they want the whole damned bakery. But this does mean that even if 2014 and 2016 becomes a complete rout for the GOP, even if every GOP member were to be shot dead, the plutocrats win because they have defined the debate.

[MotherPetrie]

1. K&R and thank you. Obama has crossed a line that should never have been crossed. PERIOD.

[DonCoquixote]

2. Thank you for reading, but

I also expect to hear the "i told ya so!" or "ya shoooda voted green" types. I will save them trouble...Until a group is presented at all levels, even the smallest, the presdiental elections will always be the lesser of two evils, and failing to choose the lesser of two will not wash your hands of what the other did.

[RainDog]

3. It's another version of elitism

The game theory of politics.

People who are working two jobs, who worry about their parents, who hope their health holds up - aren't going to take the time to deal with all the power games.

What they hear is that Democrats and Republicans are too uninterested in their lives and much too invested in maintaining the power of those who already have it, economically.

That's what people hear.

So then we have to appeal to the cultural issue divide to get people interested in voting at all.

To me, it's an issue of strategy - who are you appealing to? The person who wants to carry a grudge about the elderly or the idea that the problem isn't with this issue at all.

It's LONG past time pretending that an attempt to be bipartisan will work with current Republicans.

[L0oniX]

4. Only an idiot would think they can work with the GOP. n/t

[DonCoquixote]

5. or even manipulate them

because now, the powers that be will just destoy any GOP that does , and repalce them...There are plenty of rubes.

[Mister Ed]

6. Doesn't matter if he's bluffing or not. Our job is the same either way.

We have to fiercely oppose it, rise up against it, get everyone everywhere riled up and fighting it. If he's bluffing, that's what he wants us to do. If he's not bluffing, then that's what we have to do.

And yes, "everyone everywhere" includes your neighbor, the elderly diehard Republican. If ever there was common ground between us, this is it.

[paulk]

7. it sure would be nice

to spend our energy fighting the GOP instead of our own party.

[DonCoquixote]

8. Problem is

The powers that be have enough money to fuel the right wing no matter what, and to buy off enough off out blue dogs that we have to fight them as well.

[UBEEDelusional]

9. The damage done by his stunt of serving up SS is that now

the GOP can INCLUDE cuts to SS and Medicare in all their budgets and easily argue that it is what the President wanted, we are just giving him what he asked for in the budget.

If the GOP does not want to go down that route they can now easily use the Presidents own budget and desire to cut SS and Medicare in attack ads against Dems in 14 and how the GOP will save SS and how the Dems will destroy it.

This is not the first time he has pulled stunts like this either, I think he is willing to sell out the Democratic Party and the people in order to get his BS and Meaningless Bipartisan Grand Bargain.