I can't believe I am watching a Democratic president propose serious cuts to Social Security.

[Stinky The Clown]

[quinnox]

1. "The Grand Betrayal"

I had a sneaking suspicion Obama would do this. Now, ironically, progressives have to count on the right wing republicans in congress to be extreme enough to say no deal. That they won't accept tax raises on the wealthy, no matter what.

[aggiesal]

56. The problem is that . . .

I don't think the Republicans will let this opportunity pass.
They'll raise taxes very little, and say "See we raised taxes, like you asked."

I think they see the door cracked open just enough to put their foot
in, to keep it from closing.
They get these cuts now, and they'll get rid of the raised taxes later, and
they'll end up with what they want.

I think it was Truman that said "It's easier to vote for a Republican because
you know what you get, instead of a Democrat that acts like a Republican."

[kelliekat44]

58. Not!! Reducing future increases is not "cutting" benefits. No benefit will be less than it is now.

Stop it!! We are our own worse enemies.

[aggiesal]

59. I don't think you understand what I'm saying . . .

I'm saying that the republicans will raise taxes very little now,
to get the reductions that Obama is proposing.

Then in the future, the republicans will remove those raised taxes,
and but keep the reductions that Obama proposed.

They end it with the exact same result they wanted,
no new taxes and reductions in the BIG 3.

[awoke_in_2003]

81. When inflation grows at a higher rate...

than the cost of living increases, it is indeed a benefit cut.

[eridani]

82. If COLA is $50/month, and Medicare goes up $60/month, it goddam fucking well IS a cut! n/t

[Skittles]

85. you cannot poosibly believe that

I mean, seriously

[aggiesal]

69. I stand corrected . . .

Republicans in congress are extreme enough to say no deal.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014445544

[Fumesucker]

2. Only Nixon could go to China n/t

[green for victory]

9. and only a Democrat could have passed mandatory corporate health insurance

Damn this guy. I told him to stop stalking me.

[Arkansas Granny]

3. Exactly. It's pretty disheartening.

[PD Turk]

4. I can

I have this feeling that whoever is elected president, no matter what you promise on the campaign trail – blah, blah, blah – when you win, you go into this smoke-filled room with the twelve industrialist capitalist scum-fucks who got you in there. And you're in this smoky room, and this little film screen comes down … and a big guy with a cigar goes, "Roll the film." And it's a shot of the Kennedy assassination from an angle you've never seen before … that looks suspiciously like it's from the grassy knoll. And then the screen goes up and the lights come up, and they go to the new president, "Any questions?"

-Bill Hicks

[Cooley Hurd]

39. I've had a sinking feeling that Bill was very prescient regarding this.

The scum-fucks probably would also flash pics of the President's kids during the presentation.

That's how the CIA has operated for years, especially in South America:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_economic_hit_man

[SHRED]

53. Hicks ...one of my heroes

[HereSince1628]

5. How is that possible?

We've had many months to notice he put it on the table, and literally scores of dust-ups over this very topic.

The only way this could be surprising is if you missed all that and/or denied its reality.

[Autumn]

6. A kick in the gut isn't it.

Write, call , sign petition after petition and this is the result. All for a phony crisis that was in no way caused by Social Security.

They poor, the elderly, the unemployed have suffered enough at the alter of bipartisanship to benefit the wealthy,and corporations and we hope and pray the republican won't accept it and are expected to be grateful.

This is the ultimate betrayal.

[AsahinaKimi]

7. check this out

Robert Reich on Chained CPI (the proposal to cut Social Security benefits)

[woo me with science]

13. This really should be an OP.

[AsahinaKimi]

15. Posted the Video on the front page..

Guess I could post it in GD


edited to say its posted..and sinking like a rock..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022619137

[woo me with science]

24. Excellent. Thank you.

[AsahinaKimi]

30. He breaks it down so well..

gonna need some DU love to keep it on the first page.

[leftstreet]

19. +1 needs to be an OP

[AsahinaKimi]

23. Its posted now in GD

and in the media section. Its also sinking like a rock, so if you want to go comment on it .. and rec it.. please
feel free;
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022619137

[Baitball Blogger]

8. Bill Clinton's worst ideas came from triangulation--which is just a fancy word for

compromise. Looking back, I think that whole witchhunt that was going on during that era, was an effort to knock down his leverage to make him bend to issues that were important to the machinery that was out to get him.

No doubt that, long-term, every Republican measure has made us weaker as a country. Though, let's face it, for those who were able to steal the trustfund, it was a great era. That's why ordinary Republicans are so upset. They don't know why the good times stopped--They don't get it because there was no accountability measures taken after Bush left office. So they don't realize that they were responsible for bringing us down to our knees.

[HereSince1628]

12. Yes, and compromising requires letting go of principles that impede concession

I find all this a horrible step backwards for ordinary people. But I recognize it as on the path of the now decades long movement by democrats toward unfettered career serving political pragmatism that was celebrated by Bill Clinton.

[noiretextatique]

14. triangulation is not compromise, it is co-optation

co-opt (k-pt, kpt)
tr.v. co-opt·ed, co-opt·ing, co-opts
1. To elect as a fellow member of a group.
2. To appoint summarily.
3. To take or assume for one's own use; appropriate: co-opted the criticism by embracing it.
4. To neutralize or win over (an independent minority, for example) through assimilation into an established group or culture: co-opt rebels by giving them positions of authority.

[Baitball Blogger]

22. I know how they packaged it to sell it. But I'm not fooled by that anymore.

In the end, a Democratic president swung to the right on many measures that were once major no-nos for the party. Deregulation of Wall Street was one of them. The other was putting a limitation on welfare payments. I agree it needed revamping, but now we have a situation where the jobless numbers means absolutely nothing today. We have a lot of disappeared people out there, stewing without knowing where that anger will lead in the next election. Not a good situation to be in.

We need to win that next election and that means figuring out the right's next move. How do you know that they didn't put their foot down, in order to get Obama to "triangulate" the way that Clinton did? See how that works? In the end, they still get their way.

[bvar22]

37. No. Triangulation is NOT "compromise".

In a Compromise, BOTH sides get something they want.
In a Triangulation, one side surrenders and steps toward the other side with NO offsetting movement in the other direction.

That is WHY the Democratic Party Leadership is NOW well to the Political Right of the Reagan Republican Party with no balancing gains to the Political Left.

Triangulation IS Capitulation,
but can be twisted to look "pragmatic" or "sensible" in front of the TV cameras.



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

[Baitball Blogger]

38. Thank you for that correction.

[grahamhgreen]

47. Well said.

[99Forever]

10. We have a Democrat in the White House?

Could have fooled me.

[hfojvt]

29. Depends on what the definition of Democrat is

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022085948

[99Forever]

34. Thanks hfojvt.

I think that answers my question (even though it was rhetorical) quite well.

[Peregrine Took]

11. He's no Democrat and never has been.

Repub lite/DLC'r all the way.

He likes to talk the talk when he's running for office but then runs back into his hidey hole after he gets elected.

Just wait for him to ok the Pipeline - that will be his next kick in the gut.

[KoKo]

31. And the Secretively done TPP (Trans Pacific Partnership) dubbed Nafta

on Steroids. I've read that will be unveiled in late Summer or early Fall. I imagine it will be voted on in one of those All Nighters the day before Thanksgiving Recess. After that...I guess he's done...unless there's more war in the offing thats on the PNAC agenda for him to finish off their Grand Plan.

We need to keep pushing...because the PTB want us to give up and decline into Apathy. That's probably in some Repug Agenda Manifesto from the late 50's and it's taken this long to find such success so they won't give up.

[cherokeeprogressive]

32. One of his staunchest supporters here made the claim he HAD to lie

In order to win the chance to do good things.

Uh huh.

[Skittles]

70. is that the official BOGroupie position?

[cherokeeprogressive]

74. I had to read that one a couple times. n/t

[Skittles]

84. it must be 100-dimensional chess by now

[deutsey]

48. I really wanted to get on the Obama bandwagon back in '08

but when I saw who he was surrounding himself with in his inner circle (Geithner, Summers, Emmanuel, etc.), I just couldn't.

Yes, I voted for him in both elections...I vowed I'd always vote after I learned from Lee Atwater that the Bush/GOP strategy in '88 was to make the race so nasty that many people would sit it out in disgust.

But I have never voted for any president with enthusiasm (my first vote was against Reagan, not for Mondale).

Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama...I knew we'd be better off if they won than if their opponent did (Bush II...I rest my case, although he didn't actually win), but I also knew each one of them ultimately would serve the interests of what George Carlin called The Club over mine and people like me (lower middle class with deep working class roots).

And, to quote Walter Cronkite, that's the way it is...

[duffyduff]

16. A simple look at the man's record and statements would have told you clear back in 2008

He's not what many people think he is.

People are so taken with the "D" label they don't recognize somebody who really isn't one.

[OhioChick]

17. I never thought I'd see this day, either n/t

[duffyduff]

20. What do you mean "never"?

It was ALWAYS there, from the time he ran for president back in 2007.

This is a man who thought Reagan was so great because he was a "transformative" president.

The warning signs were EVERYWHERE about him, but nobody paid attention. They were too enthralled with "history being made" to actually look at his far-right beliefs.

[duffyduff]

18. The genius of the neolibs who control both political parties is

that because Obama is a "Democrat," Democrats in both houses of Congress will allow him to get away with things Bush or no other Republican would EVER get away with.

Look what he is doing to public education, and then argue this man is actually a Democrat.

Look at the record.

[duffyduff]

21. People better inundate Congress members of both parties with emails and letters

and stop this bullshit in the bud or we will lose it ALL.

[Capt. Obvious]

25. Everyone chill the fuck out

[OnyxCollie]

26. I'm shocked at your disbelief.

President Obama has protected those who torture (and continue to torture) people.

President Obama has protected those who lied the country into war.

President Obama has protected those who spied on (and continue to spy on) Americans.

President Obama has protected those who crashed the economy (and are preparing to crash the economy again.)

President Obama has protected those who have destroyed our environment (and are destroying the environment again.)

"But, but, but... (sniffle)... I didn't think he would hurt me!"

[hfojvt]

27. why the heck not?

He's been doing it since 2010.

And check out his proposal to lower income tax rates.

[Brigid]

28. George Carlin was right.

"They're coming for your Social Security. And they'll get it." I just never thought a Democrat would be the one. I kept hoping I was wrong. Sad day, sad day.

ETA: Interestingly, there is an ad for a local bankruptcy lawyer at the top of the page.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

33. My friend --

The days I read here on DU that he had appointed Rahm Emmanuel, Timothy Geithner, and Arne Duncan I knew exactly what we were in for and that this day would indeed come.

Until we take back the Democratic Party from the Clinton "neolibs" we are fucked.

Which means that I say here and now: I will not vote for Hillary Clinton or any other "neolib" as the Democratic candidate in 2016.

[Carolina]

66. Exactly, Hell Hath No Fury

As I said in another thread, BHO has been screwing us since day 1 in office in 2009 based on the choices he made of advisors and cabinet members. Add to your list: Larry Summers, Jeffrey Inmelt, Jack Lew!

And Hillary, oh hell no, was one of the founding members of the DLC!

[Life Long Dem]

36. As if Boehner will agree to additional taxes on the wealthy

If Boehner wants CPI, he'll have to agree to additional taxes on the wealthy. And when Boehner rejects this offer. Then who will we be pointing our finger at?

[Brigid]

40. Bonehead, of course.

If it happens that way, that is. Hey, I'm trying not to panic here, but I'm almost 55 years old.

[Myrina]

54. Of course Boehner rejected it ...

.... he wants NO new 'revenues', only deeper cuts. And he now KNOWS that POTUS is willing to buckle, so all he has to do is hold his breath until POTUS gets desperate for 'the Grand Bargain' and the Righties will get 100% of what they want, while the rest of working America gets to empty the bedpan.

[elleng]

41. You're not.

'frazzled' wrote, elsewhere, and I agree:

'I haven't jumped on the OMG thing about chained CPI because I knew the Republicans would never agree to new tax revenues in this context. I sincerely believe Obama did too, when he proposed it. I DO think he believes that a Grand Bargain is what we need to get long-term stability and just put all this behind us so we can focus on other things the government needs to do. But he is not naive about negotiating with Republicans.

This is what we call theatrics. He tried again to show them (and the country) that he'd be willing to make some extremely painful concessions if they would do the same on their side. They were never going to do it. They become the obstructionists.'

[Dragonfli]

52. Threatening concessions that will be painful to the elderly is twisted

Last edited Fri Apr 5, 2013, 04:01 PM - Edit history (1)

Frightening old people into believing he wants to make cuts to a budget that requires many of them to take only half their drugs as it is to get by is sadistic as well.

How is it politically beneficial to tell the entire country that making these cuts that a large majority of them hate is what you and your Democratic party want?

Just what is the clever outcome of this plan that scares the elderly and disabled (like Republicans like to do with talk of death panels) supposed to be

He appears to be doing everything he can to lose as many Democratic seats as possible in 2014.

Or more likely he is a triangulating "centrist" new Democrat that believes in cutting entitlements and pushing so called free trade. Since you don't appear to know about these fiscally Republican Democrats, get acquainted http://www.thirdway.org/

[CountAllVotes]

64. This sort of "theatrics" as it is being called by some ...

It does nothing for the elderly and what about the disabled that cannot work? Regardless of who is being caught in this ugly mess, it is indeed a disgrace at best.

SHAME ON YOU BARACK OBAMA! I'm sick of your "theatrics" or what the hell ever it is that you think you are doing at the expense and health of others that rely on SS to merely exist and yes, that is what most people on SS are doing, merely existing. How far is $1000.00 a month going to last a person with massive medical bills? Not long.

If such plans are adopted, the "not long" part will be reduced to a genocidal impact on recipients, the sick and the elderly.

SHAME ON YOU BARACK OBAMA, SHAME ON YOU!!!!

[Bluenorthwest]

83. Theatrics? What became of 'No Drama Obama'?

And as a theater professional, I tell you that taking an elderly hostage is not theatrics, it is morally vacant self promotion. Amoral, reckless and utterly selfish.

[infidel dog]

42. What's so hard to believe?

The man is a political jellyfish. Our invertibrate president undulates again...

[grahamhgreen]

46. HAHA!

[Carolina]

67. he's worse than a jellyfish

at least the jellyfish will sting those who come too close and certainly those that attack.

All BHO knows how to do is bend over, again and again in a compromising position...

[Oilwellian]

72. Sweet Jesus, what is it?

[Brickbat]

43. He's not. He's just pretending to drive the car off the cliff to get the kids in the back to behave,

just like any caring human being does. For it to work, the kids have to believe they're going to die. Instant compliance! Isn't that how you do it?

[grahamhgreen]

44. Social Security Does Not Contribute One Nickel to the Deficit!

[840high]

45. Sad.

[hibbing]

49. We win and still lose n/t

[ZombieHorde]

50. Extremely lame for several reasons.

1. We have to rely on Republicans to do the right thing, which I believe they did.
2. This gives ammo to the lie that SS is a part of the deficit.
3. Chained CPI is now a Democratic principle.

[calimary]

51. Then let's start making it more and more impossible for him to do so!

For your consideration:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022619428

[Raggaemon]

55. Nothing but a bluff ?

That's what I've heard from some folks, they say the president already knew the GOP wouldn't agree with his proposal. I say ... what if they did agree ? What would this president who campaigned as a champion of the middle class and as a vigorous supporter of Social Security have done if John Boehner said, "you got a deal" ?

To campaign saying one thing, then taking steps to nullify those promises equates to betrayal in my opinion, does president Obama want to be known as the president who tried to negotiate the "chained CPI" that takes money from retired people like me who contributed to the fund their entire working lives ????

I'm not a fan of this so-called political jujitsu stuff, but this is what we have right now.

Karl Rove talked about his vision of "permanent republican majorities", to make that vision a reality republicans use a meat clever, Gerrymandered districts, unconstitutional voter ID laws intending to restrict voter registration, whatever it takes is their motto. Two wrongs don't make a right of course, I'm not suggesting the democratic party stoop to the same level, what I do suggest however is that they grow a damn spine !

I think it's safer to refrain from placing too much faith in people, generally, but taking someone at their word is one thing that should be simple.

I'm not sure what Barack Obama stands for anymore ?

[HereSince1628]

60. A bluff makes Obama a dishonest negotiator... that's not a valuable attribute

for a politician and I don't think it's an approach Obama would use.

[TimberValley]

61. Strikes me as a very, very, risky bluff.

What if the Republicans say yes? I mean, they probably won't, but what if they do say yes?

[Logical]

57. Where are the usual suspects defending it? n-t

[CountAllVotes]

62. BO lied

During his re-election campaign he stated that no one would mess with SS under his watch.

This is obviously a lie as he is trying to do just what he promised he said he would not do.

So, now we know we have a liar on our hands here.

It doesn't do much to "keep hope alive" IMO.

Change? Yes lots of change alright, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer by the minute. Hence, we should loosen up those lending standards and give these poor SOB's a loan that they *really* do not qualify for ...

This is like the housing go boom strategy and then some all over again IMO ...

And yes, the whole thing stinks. *phew*

as hell ...

& recommend.

[MFM008]

63. Why wont a democrat president

BE a democrat? Next we get the XL pipeline. When will I learn???

[Nye Bevan]

65. He did say during the campaign that his position on Social Security was similar to Romney's.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/helaineolen/2012/10/04/barack-obama-mitt-romney-the-presidential-debate-social-security-and-the-upcoming-retirement-crisis/

So this should not be a complete surprise.

[L0oniX]

68. Gee ...I'm not seeing the usual gang of worshippers. I wonder why. n/t

[bobduca]

73. all too busy rehearsing their talking points

[CountAllVotes]

75. the last time I posted on a thread like this ...

My post was deleted by a "jury".

I called the man a fraud, that is what I said and , my post was GONE.

As for said "Jury", I could not believe what one person said ... HATRED was in that statement and SHAME ON YOU. It almost worked to be rid of me once and for all but it was after all a valid criticism and accurate nonetheless. I've been around awhile ya' know?

I do not miss "them" a bit and maybe they should read what the late President Theodore Roosevelt had to say about such matters:

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

"Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star", 149
May 7, 1918

[L0oniX]

76. Excellent. FDR is my most respected and favorite POTUS. I wish we could clone him. n/t

[Cleita]

71. What Democratic President?

We haven't had a real Democrat since Jimmy Carter. However, even a DINO should not be proposing this.

[Jakes Progress]

77. Make that a small d.

He runs one way and governs another.

[Duer 157099]

78. Don't believe your lying eyes n/t

[smirkymonkey]

79. I am completely disgusted.

What a turncoat. It is sickening.

[MOMFUDSKI]

80. It is still

April Fools Day, right?

[DirkGently]

86. There is no justification, no rationale, no "bluff" that excuses it.

It requires accepting the Republican illogic that SS is "spending." They simply want to take the money, and Obama is suggesting that's okay.

It is not.