Ok I have a question this morning about the mass shootings we've seen lately

[madokie]

Is this a true statement? The overwhelming evidence points to the single largest common factor in all of these incidents is the fact that all of the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before they committed their crimes

If it is then why are we not doing something about this?

My personal experience with Paxil, bear with me please.
11 years ago I had a DVT and no insurance so I was pretty much forced to go to the VA for treatment. Everything went well and after a week I was sent home taking meds to finish dissolving the clot and to prevent another one. Here I am 54 years old at that time and have lived most of my life with anxiety, having panic attacks frequently so I talk to my doctor about this and if I could possibly get something to help in stopping those. Immediately he sent me over to a kook, for the lack of a better word, and this man told me all I had to do when I felt these feelings coming on was to take a deep breath and count to 10. Of course that was bullshit. Anyway the doctor then prescribed for me Paxil, said this will fix me up. Well luckily I only took 1/2 of the blue pill. The next three days and nights were a living hell. I couldn't sleep, I couldn't lay still, I couldn't sit still, I couldn't keep a thought, I was a total mess, my skin crawled, I was miserable. If I would have had access to a gun I truly think I would have taken my life just to make this weird feeling go away. I'm not suicidal at all so lets not get off on that tangent, ok. The SSRI screwed me up totally. It took three days to get to where I could see light at the end of the tunnel again.
Now that I've told my story of what these psychotropics did to me I'm wondering if this is a part of the problem in cases such as Sandy Hook and or the Aurora massacres. If maybe they are the problem rather than the guns.
I'm a Vietnam vet who doesn't own guns but have no problem with anyone else who do. Although I am concerned with the weapons that seems to me were originally designed for the battlefield and feel they have no place in our society. This is my opinion on this only.
DU what say you.
My apologies, writing is not my forte

[HockeyMom]

1. Same experience my daughter had

She also only took ONE PILL and never took another one. When she called her doctor the next day, the doctor told her that this is what was proscribed and she MUST take it. My daughter told her no that she felt like killing herself, and never went back to that doctor.

My daughter has taken many different meds, and takes none at all now, but that Paxil was the worst.

[madokie]

2. Thank you for that, now I know its not just me

It was the worse three days of my life without a doubt.
Do we at DU not want to talk about this aspect because we're convinced that its the guns fault or what. I'm surprised that this hasn't gotten much traction.

[HappyMe]

6. I'm fortunate in that I have never had to

take such drugs.

I think the reason this doesn't get much traction here is that it turns from 'bad meds' or 'bad reaction to meds', to broad brush smearing of all people under a doctors care.

I think that it's the access to the guns that is the problem here.

[madokie]

15. I'm not convinced that is the real problem here

At first I was but as time passes and time to read and thing this through I'm not so sure anymore
Lot of people are in agreement with what I'm concerned with.

[HappyMe]

20. I have to admit that I have stayed

out of most of the gun control threads.

Pharmaceuticals could very well be part of the problem here. I think other factors also have to be considered.
Were regular doctor's appointments kept.
Were any side effects reported.
Were the meds being taken as directed.
Did anybody close to them report any change in their behavior because of the meds.

For every person that has a bad experience with meds, I'm sure that there is one that is helped by them.

[bowens43]

3. Actually, The overwhelming evidence points to the single largest common factor

is that they all had guns and ammunition.

BTW, mass shootings are not the biggest problem. It's the every day shootings, suicides and accidents. Mass shootings just make national news.

The problem is easy access to guns and ammo.

The only thing that will solve our problems is a near total ban on all fire arms and ammunition.

[madokie]

4. So the solution to this is a non starter

No one is going to take away all the guns even if they wanted too, it can't be done. Why no interest in any other angles

[dkf]

5. Because people have more interest in being moralistic and dictating how others should live

than in solving the problem

[madokie]

9. I guess so

Oh but the President is caving a senior administration says, funny how no one is owning up to who is saying that. Just more Obama bashing. Same as with this I'm asking about it seems, just gun bashing.

[dkf]

19. Bashing and ranting is instant gratification.

I'm not surprised people would rather indulge than be thoughtful and solution oriented.

[jmg257]

13. Who says there is no interest in any other angles?

I would like to know more about this,...links, please.

[HappyMe]

11. A near total ban on all firearms and ammo

isn't going to happen. There is absolutely no practical way to accomplish that.

[pipi_k]

21. Agree, and even if it did happen...

the only thing it would cut down on is deaths by guns.

What about people like the Olympic Park bomber.

Ted Kaczynski

Timothy McVeigh

Or some guy with an anger problem and a 2000+ lbs weapon (a car or truck) who drives through a crowd of people

Some serial killers who have been known to murder 30 or 40 people, albeit over the course of many years.

Food poisoners.

I ask people who think guns are "the problem" what about when pissed off individuals find other ways to murder their fellow humans?

It seems to me that lots of people think that removing/banning their own hated demons will be the magical solution to all of our problems, but it doesn't work that way.

[HappyMe]

22. I agree.

Life isn't going to be all sunshine and lollipops if guns and ammo get banned.

If we don't get at why people want to murder as many people as possible, it's not going to stop. I also think that even if we do get to the why, it still may not stop. It isn't a cut and dried issue by any means.

[leveymg]

7. Sounds like you suffered akathisia, a fairly common side-effect of that drug

Adaped form the Wiki:

On 9 December 2004, the European Medicines Agency's (EMEA) Committee for Medicinal Products for Human Use (CHMP) gave a warning recommending close monitoring of adult patients at high risk of suicidal behaviour and/or suicidal thoughts. CHMP does not prohibit use of paroxetine with high risk adults but urges extreme caution. Due to reports of adverse withdrawal reactions upon terminating treatment, CHMP recommends to reduce gradually over several weeks or months if the decision to withdraw is made.[34] See also Discontinuation syndrome (withdrawal).

Cases of akathisia[35][36] and activation syndrome[37][38] have been observed during paroxetine treatment.

Rarely serotonin syndrome, a severe adverse effect may occur.[39][40]

Akathisia, or acathisia, is a syndrome characterized by unpleasant sensations of inner restlessness that manifests itself with an inability to sit still or remain motionless (hence the word's origin in Ancient Greek: from ???ί???? - kathízein - "to sit" with a privative a as prefix expressing negation or absence; literally meaning inability to sit). It can be a side effect of medications, or it can, to a lesser extent, be caused by Parkinson's disease and related syndromes,[1] and likely other neurological diseases. However, this may be due more to the drugs used in treatment such as sinemet (l-dopa) and less with the Parkinson's disease itself.[2] Another major cause is withdrawal from almost any physical addiction, for example, in benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome.[3] It was discovered that akathisia involves increased levels of the neurotransmitter norepinephrine, which is associated with mechanisms that regulate aggression, alertness, and arousal.[4] Though no further research has been done yet, it may also be involved with disrupted NMDA channels in the brain, which have both synergistic and regulatory effects on norepinephrine.

[green for victory]

8. Michael Moore agrees with you

There must be a reason this is not a part of the national debate. Fox reported on it in 2003 but not since. Congress held hearings in 2006 (iirc). The media can ask if it's the video games, or the bullying or the foods in the diet, but fails to ask of it's the drugs that come with a mandated black box warning.

Time wrote about it
America's Medicated Army
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1812055-2,00.html

To a lot of people, if one doesn't think it's a good idea that children and our troops are being prescribed serious drugs that come with warnings of suicidal behavior they're called "Scientologists" or "Luddites" or worse. Many times the people that object loudest to discussing the issue are taking these drugs themselves.

Thanks for telling your story and glad you were able to kick the drugs.

Here's 4800+ more that ended up much worse
http://ssristories.com/index.php

a paper at the National Institutes of Health:
Antidepressants and Violence-problems at the Interface of Medicine & Law
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1564177/

[malaise]

10. Excellent point

What makes the US 'exceptional' in terms of gun crimes is that there is no other country on earth with more guns among the populace and big pharma's psychotropic drugs. Indeed the violent video games are present in several other countries without the same levels of violence.

Of course among the folks with as much influence as the NRA are the lobbyists from big pharma

[jmg257]

12. Nope - not a true statement. The overwhelming evidence says the largest common factor

in all mass shootings, in ALL shootings in fact, is firearms.

So, now what?

[madokie]

17. I think you're missing the forest for the trees

Yes the most common aspect is the gun as that is what this is about. That doesn't mean that there isn't an underlying reason that this happens.
I don't for a minute believe that just because there were guns available did these people do this. There is a reason and that is what I'm wanting to look at.

[jmg257]

18. Ahh - got it! Carry on then! :) nt

[Ligyron]

14. One could make the argument that

in almost all cases (not legitimate self-defense), someone taking another's life probably should have had some type of pill administered beforehand.

[dkf]

16. Getting someone hooked on Paxil sounds like a wonderful way to make a person a patient for life...

and a consumer for life and the Pharma industry and its conduits sure benefit from the lack of interest in examining this potential aspect.

I find it curious that we never question our prescription drug culture and how the incentives are in maintenance, not cure so I can't say I'm surprised that there seems to be no move to examine this more scientifically. We already know where government stands on keeping pharma profitable.

Who else is supposed to do the research besides the industry or some government sponsored study?