An acquaintance lost her job

[Lurker Deluxe]

I pretty much stop at the local watering hole very day after work, I skip a day here and there ... but if I am working you can usually find me there. So you get to know the "locals" pretty well after a couple years. This story is about one of them.

She worked in a corporate setting, nice looking girl, smarter than average, and seemed to have her shit together ... as much as one can tell over conversations around Patron shots. She had been there over three years and was moving up the ladder as it were.

A few weeks ago she let it be known that the company was having her cross train another person to help with the workload, and although she was not happy she went along with the program. I kind of helped there as I put it, the first step to supervision is training other people to perform a task and making sure it gets done properly. So over the last few weeks she has been teaching someone else to do her job.

At the end of business Wednesday she was let go by the company. She inquired as to why and was told that the other person was "more dependable". It was an interesting conversation from there ... Was she late to work? "only a couple times a week" Did she go to work every day? "I miss like 4-5 days a month" Do you generally work 40 or more hours a week? "well, I was salaried so I really did not have to" What do you intend to do now? "I think I will go back to bar tending" Why? "I really don't like getting up early" What time did you have to go in? "nine" I bought her a couple of drinks as we spoke and paid my tab (6 pm) and politely told her it was time to get my ass to the house and she asked me what I was "doing tonight". Uhhh, sleeping ... I get up at 4 every day.

So yesterday I stop in and the owner of the watering hole struck up a conversation about this young lady. It seems that around October of last year she started running around with a couple of the bartenders and was closing the place down three or four nights a week and some days she would be waiting there for them to open and start drinking at eleven and stay there until two. Why would this person begin down such a destructive path? "she likes to drink" Hell, I like to drink, but I can't do it without money so I know when to take my dumb ass to the house. "well, she would rather hang out with friends than do that" Such is life.

I post this just as a gentle reminder to those out there that insist that everyone who has a good job and manages to be successful is not just lucky, and that those who end up working at some job that has no benefits, insurance, or opportunity for advancement is not just unlucky. Work ethic still means something in the world, something I think this young lady will learn ... after being fired from a bar tending gig for lack of attendance.

[irisblue]

1. she might have been drinking d/2 the pain of her job

If she is/was drinking to self medicate from a lousy job situation, it does have ripple effects. Hopefully she gets turned around into something that works for her.

[liberalhistorian]

3. And she might have been drinking just because

she liked it and wanted to continue partying all night well into adulthood. Not everyone is unlucky and sometimes people really are irresponsible and lazy. Most people don't like getting up in the morning, but they do it 'cause it's the responsible thing to do and they need to keep a roof over their head and food on their table.

If I were her employer, I likely wouldn't have kept her on, either. Absent four or five times a month? Late a couple times a week? Not taking your job seriously enough to at least try to work well at it? No, I don't think so. Unless they're dealing with a serious illness, or a family member with a serious illness. But that wasn't the case here. Work ethic really still IS important.

[undeterred]

2. Is it Sunday?

I think we just heard a sermon from the right wing.

[liberalhistorian]

4. What "sermon"?

You think it's okay to party the night away and then not show up for work four or five times a month or be late a couple times a week? You think people should be able to just show up for work whenever they feel like it? Not put in the required hours per week? You think people shouldn't at least TRY to do a good job? People are not automatically owed paychecks. You still have to work for them.

[Voice for Peace]

6. yes but .. duh.. do people here really not know that?

it does feel a bit like a sermon from someone who
thinks liberals don't know how to keep a job.

[IdaBriggs]

11. "Work Ethic" is less a liberal vs conservative thing, in my opinion,

and almost a "generational" thing at some level.

Recreational time and available activities pretty much exploded beginning in the 1960s/1970s, and we now spend ridiculous numbers of hours watching television/playing video games/surfing the net/etc.

Our recreation is a multi-BILLION dollar industry, probably second only (if that) to our defense industry.

I am in in my 40s, and "work ethic" was a very big deal for my family. Despite my many conveniences - plumbing, electricity, grocery stores, cooking appliances, dishwasher, in-home laundry, etc. - I still feel like I have *less* time to relax than my mother did, but I probably spend more time plunked in front of an electronic device (television or computer) than she ever *dreamed* about - and I was lucky enough to have "good examples" as to what "work ethic" both looked like, and was required in my home.

Our entire entertainment industry revolves around people Not Working, to the point where people watching might think "Not Working" is normal. Pick any television show, and (with the exception of crime solving shows) figure out how much time the protagonists spend "working" - or what their jobs actually are.

Good luck. Most seem to have the job of sitting around someplace socializing with their friends - lol!

Everything really becomes about what you internally "normalize" as acceptable behavior. If your employer has an expectation that you will a) show up and b) on time, but you think "timely" is a range, then speaking from personal experience, there is going to be a conflict.

The golden rule still applies: "he who has the gold makes the rules!"

That is what my mother used to say, anyway. She is a very smart woman.

[Voice for Peace]

16. "he who has the gold makes the rules!"

I haven't heard that golden rule.

[IdaBriggs]

22. My mom is a very smart lady.

It was/is her standard answer whenever one of us complains about our jobs.

Keeps life in perspective, doesn't it?

[undeterred]

9. You've taken an anecdote and generalized from it

to the point of absurdity:

"I post this just as a gentle reminder to those out there that insist that everyone who has a good job and manages to be successful is not just lucky, and that those who end up working at some job that has no benefits, insurance, or opportunity for advancement is not just unlucky."

Employers are turning more and more towards the use of workers who they can get to do the work without providing any benefits at all. This happens at all levels of employment. It has nothing to do with the work ethic or intelligence of the individuals and everything to do with the employer trying to get as much as they can from their workers and give back as little as possible. Any move to unionize is immediately crushed. Its not bad luck that creates jobs with no benefits or security, its bad politics.

You totally missed the big picture.

[samplegirl]

13. Look at some of his other posts

The guy is a RW troll!

[Lurker Deluxe]

18. Not sure what I am

I know where my heart lies, and I know what I believe in. Around this "discussion forum" I am not sure what I am. I do notice that I do not fit in with quite a few of you ... you, samplegirl, would obviously be one of them.

In an attempt to discuss a simple point of how people approach life and how they determine who they are going to be and how they will be treated the responses from you are on point from what I see more often than not. Nothing constructive to add to the conversation.

You are more than welcome to review my post history and see what you can come up with that suggest "rw troll" ... I could look at your post history, but I would rather respond to a post than attempt to judge someone else's motives about what they post.

[undeterred]

25. You haven't responded to my response.

You are reasoning from your experience talking to one person to the whole economy. If you spent some time reading the informative posts on this discussion board you might see that there is a bigger picture here.

Yes, individuals can be irresponsible. But there are millions of people out of work, or working without benefits because of the way the status of the worker has fallen in our society during the last 30 years. You can't make the leap to saying that everyone who is unemployed or underemployed has no work ethic - well you can make it, but I'm sure not going to follow you.

The wealthy are crushing the middle class in this country through union busting and wage stagnation. This idea that everyone who isn't doing well is lazy and irresponsible is just part of the brainwashing.

[Lurker Deluxe]

27. k

No, it's not Sunday. And no, that was not a sermon from the right wing.

Is that what you wanted me to respond to? Because truthfully after a response like that I did not read to much else of what you had to say.

But I went back and actually read your post with content.

I do not believe that everyone who has employment issues is lazy and irresponsible, but some people are. You may disagree with this and that certainly is your right. This young woman is not a lefty, she's a bootstrapper who hates, HATES, Obama and will be blaming her employment situation on him before the end of the year ... promise.

I would guess this goes back for a little while now, and I was going to post about it but I have been really busy here at work and just got caught up this morning enough to have some time to fuck off while getting some RFQ's for consumables and write a report or two. The issue is defensiveness and why so many people respond to certain topics by getting defensive about their lack of the short coming. Be it white privilege, male privilege, benevolent sexism, thoughts on retirement planing, gun ownership, or any number of other topics that come up here on a day to day basis. When I first wandered across this board I really liked the format and started following along and it did not take long to jump into the fray. Once I did do that I really became disoriented, and had to take a step back and look at myself and my surroundings ... I paid a little bit more attention to things that I just took for granted in life.

Am I privileged? Sure. White, male ... but more than that I am healthy and strong.

Did I get lucky getting my job? Yea, right place at the right time ... happened to be a good opportunity that I was prepared to take.

Am I sexist? Prolly, it is what it is ... I will be the way I am until I am not.

Then I started to recognize that it is not all about that, even once you realize that. The fact of the matter is that some people really do put forth more effort than others. Some people just wander through life with no goals and no idea how to set goals, improve themselves, or have any aspirations on being anything more than having enough money to get high or drunk this week. Not all people ... SOME people. I related a simple story of a young woman who is right in the middle of destroying her life, it's on the way down, and the example rings true. She has no desire, after losing her job, to go get another job for which she is qualified because "she doesn't like getting up early" ... a year from now with that gap in her employment history landing that next job will be even harder. Her looks will get her bartending gigs for another ten years, then what?

I am not attempting to parse the rise and fall of the American worker in a post about a young woman losing her way. It was merely an observation on the life that we all live and the world that we participate in. Maybe I shouldn't have wrote it ... maybe I should have. Doesn't make a damn, I did.

I spend enough time reading the posts on this discussion board. I understood there is a bigger picture long before I stumbled across this place. Just as I would be foolish to make an assumption about all unemployed people after taking to one person who lost their job you would be foolish to think that posting an example of how one person lost their job I assume anything about the majority of unemployed people.

[undeterred]

28. So you're posting at work?

Because you have time to "fuck off" at your job? Wow, that is privilege.

[Lurker Deluxe]

32. actually

It's more seniority and the fact that I get my work done. I make my own hours as well, pretty much can come and go as I please, and punch no clock.

I am the one who turns the lights on in this place every day though, and once one of my co-workers asked me, "why are you always here so early" ... simple, so I am never late.

The guys in my department (machine shop) are alway on time as well, as I explained to them ... we will never have to punch a clock if we are always here before the boss.

I am sure my experience is unique, as all corporations are simply evil entities attempt to suck the very soul out of as many people as possible, but I have found that if I make them money ... they pay me well and treat me with respect.

[el_bryanto]

5. Well the low post count makes that possible

but the point still seems valid.

Bryant

[backscatter712]

34. Yep, sounds like a sermon to me from the ratfuck right. n/t

[IdaBriggs]

7. High school really seems to be a key point for whether people will succeed or fail in life.

To succeed, you have to:

a) Get up Every Single Morning & Be On Time (even if you would rather sleep in/there are ten million reasons to be late)

b) Do STUPID things that authority figures insist are important, even if you disagree

c) Behave RESPECTFULLY to authority figures, even if THEY are rude or disrespectful to you

d) Do Your OWN Work & Do It Well (even if it is stupid and everyone else doesn't have to and they are all having fun)

e) Get Along With Other People / No Fighting or Being Disruptive (even if other people are difficult)

My observation is that high school in particular is really when these "life skills" (of the lack thereof) really start shining through; prior to the teenage years, your parents are 100% responsible for "training you" in these things, but by the time someone hits 16 / 17, they really get to make the decision about whether or not they are going to go along with the program.

Many people can't or don't want to be SELF-disciplined enough to do these things, or since they don't see the sense in doing "stupid things" they indulge themselves in "bad habits" or become so involved in "recreational activities" that they never learn "the work ethic" stuff that will help them be successful in life.

We are a "business" society; the above five things (and I know there are more) that we teach in school all apply to dealing with co-workers, management and customers. The "bad boys" who went into the trades (plumbing, for example) who skipped a lot/spent most of high school "high" because it was "boring" are the ones (in my observation as a customer) who have trouble *keeping* loyal customers because they don't show up, or don't show up on time, or have trouble getting along, or can't keep on top of their "boring paperwork" (like bills, taxes, and invoicing), and end up working for other people instead of being "independent" like they want to be, while the guy who is dependable gets repeat calls because he *is* dependable.

My opinion. Your experiences may vary. Good post, Lurker Deluxe. The first rule to any job is "SHOW UP" - after that, most stuff is negotiable!

[hobbit709]

8. There's a big difference between being fired for chronic absenteeism and tardiness

And being dumped because of outsourcing and cost cutting downsizing.

[99Forever]

10. Smells made up to me.

Sorry bud, that reeks of false moralistic superiority bullshit to me.

I could be wrong, but i doubt it.

[winter is coming]

12. +1. I know *one* person who lost his job for being a flake.

And at least a dozen who lost theirs while doing "all the right things".

[IdaBriggs]

31. I know *one* who lost *a dozen* jobs for being a flake.

I also know people who were downsized, rightsized, and laid off due to reasons having nothing to do with their own personal performance.

The poster's point about the importance of a work ethic is not invalidated by any of these facts.

Life is complicated, but employers prefer to keep the employees who make life easier instead of harder.

I once had to fire someone because she only showed up the first day; day two and three she had "issues" and when I told her if she couldn't show up on day four I didn't need her on day five, I never saw her again.

Very embarrassing for my own credibility for having made the mistake of hiring a flake, and I got a lot of grief about people not bothering to learn an IT person's name unless they stuck around for more than a week, but overall, we really lucked out that she showed her "true colors" so early.

[samplegirl]

14. Because it is made up!

[IdaBriggs]

15. 99Forever, you are demonstrating one of my pet peeves here on DU.

Automatic dismissal of a DISCUSSION POINT on a DISCUSSION BOARD because of a "fill in the blank" reason.

There are so many different places you could go with the original post: personal experience, societal expectations, generational value systems, rural versus urban economic work ethics - just to name a few.

But you went to "dismissive ignore" with "false moralistic superiority bullshit" insult.

Why bother?

It is the internet. It might be a true story; it might NOT be a true story. The point is to DISCUSS IT and what it implies.

If you don't have anything to add, don't up your post count MINIMIZING somebody else's offering.

Just move on.

BUT if you have an actual THOUGHT you would like to share for DISCUSSION purposes, welcome to DU!

(And yes, you aren't the only poster who does this - you just caught my attention today.)

[99Forever]

17. Who are you, the Posting Police?

Do I tell you what you should or shouldn't post? Mind your own damn business. If you don't like what I have to say, put me on ignore.

[IdaBriggs]

21. Yes, yes, I *am* the posting police - and you make my point perfectly.

If you didn't have anything to actually CONTRIBUTE to the discussion, then you should have ignored the thread.

And if you hadn't a history of actually MAKING useful contributions in the past, I would have done so.

In particular, I thought this thread of yours was brilliant: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022540533

I *like* when you actually spend time *participating* in the discussion, and not just "eh, its made up, so who cares?"

Well, made up or not, SHARE YOUR OPINION ON THE TOPIC.

Or don't, and ignore the thread without the dismissive insult.

[Lurker Deluxe]

19. You could be

And I could post her FB page and confirm it ... that would just make me a prick though.

You believe what you believe ... nothing that can be said on a message board can be proven one way or another.

In other news from the local tavern a couple went on vacation to Florida where he promptly got drunk and hit on some other person of the female persuasion leading to his other half to get on a plane and fly home with his truck keys and wallet.

I could have made that up to, but the truth really is more fun.

[Dreamer Tatum]

36. Don't sweat it

Some people just can't handle a message of personal responsibility. It's reflexive on their part. They can't help sneering at people who help themselves.

[HipChick]

20. How old is she?

If you have responsibilities - mortgage,kids etc...it is much harder to be skating out on things like this

[ljm2002]

23. It sounds like alcoholism...

...and she may be falling into a long-term problem.

I hope she gets the help she needs before it's too late. Bartending is not the best choice of jobs for problem drinkers...

[CK_John]

24. She needs a 12 step program. 90 and 90 meetings. She is a drunk, in denial.

[lunasun]

26. but not everyone who is unemployed is an irresponsible drunk/druggie

and neither are all folks in low wage no benefit jobs lacking a good work ethic
bitterness is bad

[Comrade_McKenzie]

29. Yep. As advocates for worker's rights...

Some people need to learn the difference between a justified termination and an unjustified termination.

Workplaces aren't charity cases. Show up and do your job or get shown the door. If you're doing your job and performing well and get fired, then it's probably a bullshit reason.

As my father always told me: "If I don't do it, they'll find someone that will."

[datasuspect]

30. thanks for the sermon, parson

oy vey.

i was waiting for you to mention bootstraps or somesuch.

i just puked a little my mouth after i read your post.

[undeterred]

33. oh, it gets better

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2619011

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2619314

[backscatter712]

35. Your "concern" for our "laziness" is noted.

Where's unrec when we need it?

[RiffRandell]

37. Thanks for the rant, Norm.