If a fetus is a human and I am made to bear it...

[Fawke Em]

then isn't that a violation of the 13th Amendment?

According to the rulings regarding involuntary servitude, these are the criteria:


1. Threatened or actual physical force,
2. Threatened or actual state-imposed legal coercion, or
3. Fraud or deceit where the servant is a minor, an immigrant or mentally incompetent.

Therefore, if the state is asking my body to work for another body by state-imposed legal coercion, then the "heartbeat" laws are a violation of the 13th Amendment.

I don't cheat on my husband, who has had a vasectomy, so I'm not a candidate here. Can someone step up?

[Gravitycollapse]

1. Women aren't human beings, according to anti-choicers.

They are merely conduits.

[Fawke Em]

2. True, but we still are under the law...

My question is this: why hasn't any woman sued under this right?

[Gravitycollapse]

3. I'm sure there are plenty of lawsuits.

[niyad]

5. if you can find any using this specific argument, could you please let us know?

[niyad]

4. apparently had not occurred to anyone else-- this needs to go viral

[Fawke Em]

6. I live in a red state.

I've thought about this often and wondered why it was never picked up.

Note: I was a Communications major. I got out of "news" because it paid shit and wasn't "news" anymore, but I took tons of Constitutional law classes. If a fetus is a human, you're making me labor in more ways than one. Makes sense to me.

[joeglow3]

8. No. They are intermediaries

http://www.theonion.com/topics/sexual-reproduction/

[Fawke Em]

14. Jeez... ain't that the truth!

I'm not human. I'm an incubator that looks like an egg.

[Aerows]

7. I wouldn't bear it

The only way I'll ever get pregnant is if I'm raped, and if that happens, I can guarantee I won't be bringing a child into this world. I don't care what I would have to do.

[ismnotwasm]

9. The ACLU was on it a number of years ago

I saw a newspaper clip from 1992, and a couple of other blogs and whatnot (just a google search) but I do t see it actually used anywhere. Makes sense to me though.

[Fawke Em]

12. I wish we could find that.

Or, I guess I could email the ACLU.

Thanks!

[ismnotwasm]

19. This a weird newspaper archive, hope it links right

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19920314&id=o1NTAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UoQDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1195,5782853

[Fawke Em]

20. Thank you!

I don't know if it worked, but, then again, the law they were arguing against wasn't "personhood."

[EC]

10. Since it's a person - can it own property?

Like life insurance? or take out a credit card? I see all kinds of problems with this. If the woman dies in childbirth, does that make the person just born a murderer? Could the new mother present this person with a bill for room and board during time in utero?

[Fawke Em]

11. It's also eligible for "entitlements."

It can't work... so who is paying its disability or Social Security?

Do Republicans think anything out?

[Voice for Peace]

13. these are important questions!!

is a mother the property of her offspring?

[Fawke Em]

15. What a great question!

Do my kids own me?

I mean, I chose to have them, but had I been made to work my body to house and feed them for 9 months beyond my will, am I their slave?

They would argue that they are mine, but, hey... they have to learn to clean and cook.

[loyalsister]

16. 14th Amendment as well

Equal protection. Men are not in a position to be forced into pregnancy, labor & delivery. The other 1\2 of the population should not be required to take the risk.

[yodermon]

17. I don't like this reasoning b/c it still assumes personhood of the fetus.

Taking the slavery argument to its logical conclusion: Suppose entity A forces entity B to work for entity C. While this is probably a violation of the 13th amendment by entity A, the acceptable remedy is not to kill entity C.

Better to confront these "heartbeat" bills head on as unconstitutional per Roe. IMO.

[Fawke Em]

18. Oh, I agree, but if states keep passing this shit

then we have to stop it.

Roe doesn't cover personhood, which is what ALEC is banking on. It covers privacy, which we know no longer exists.

So, I'm thinking ahead.

[rug]

21. No, it isn't.

Since you asked.

[Fawke Em]

22. Why?

Since you responded.

[rug]

23. Pregnancy is not slavery.

It's really an obnoxious comparison.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/thirteenthamendment.html

[Fawke Em]

24. It is if you don't want to be pregnant.

It's obnoxious to think otherwise.

It kills your body and your teeth. It's painful and restrictive.

I'm sorry if I don't see the difference.

I'm editing to add that, while I love both my children, there has been no other thing I've ever done in my life that has caused my body more stress. I've never broken a bone, but, as a small woman who gave birth to large babies, I've experienced a number of abscessed teeth, a hernia, diabetes and back problems. If I hadn't wanted them, that would be torture, don't you think?

[cali]

25. Man, is this a losing argument

and in any case, heartbeat legislation and personhood legislation are not the real threat. Not at this time and not in the near future. Virtually every constitutional expert in this area agrees that such legislation will be, as it has in the past, be enjoined and then ruled unconstitutional under Roe.

The real threat, as I repeat here ad nauseum, is TRAP legislation. Both the NYT and Think Progress have excellent articles out today about it and they say what I've been saying over and over and over.

Here's a link to the NYT article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/04/us/alabama-legislature-approves-abortion-clinic-limits.html?_r=0

[Niceguy1]

26. pregnancy

And childbirth is part if the human condition and perfectly natural. And is a choice by engaging certain diversions.

People are really over analyzing this whole thing.