Front page of CNN.com: "Jackson doc sings from jail"

[UrbScotty]

[hlthe2b]

1. This doc must be a RETHUG..

classical refusal to accept responsibility for anything.

[Egnever]

2. Pretty harsh

I cant say what he did or didnt do as I was not there. However there s no question MJ was a very troubled person.

What I do know is in my dealing with him as my heart specialist he was a very kind man. He took very good care of my father as well,

My father is poor and Dr. Murray never cared if my father paid him or not. He just treated him and talked with him. My father considers him one of his dearest friends to this day.

In my opinion his big heart got the better of him and he put himself in a bad position out of his desire to help.

MJ was a ticking time bomb waiting to pop on someone. Doctors had been filling MJ with drugs for years before Murray came along.

I am not trying to say what he did was the right thing to do but the man is not the monster you portray him to be. At least in my personal dealings with him he was never anything but a kind compassionate man.

Very sad to see him demonized but I do understand the reaction.

[stevenleser]

5. There are several drugs that, if prescribed and had caused the death, I would have been less harsh

but propofol is not one of them. This is a drug that is only supposed to be used when airway management is in place and facilities are there for your vitals to be electronically monitored and a team of people to revive you if necessary.

Several anesthesiologists have accidentally killed themselves when recreationally using propofol. You need to understand what that means. People who have been through medical school, then went through the specialization to understand how all of these anesthesia's work and possible dangers, etc., still managed to kill themselves with this drug. This isn't something you mess around with at all and Dr. Murray would have known all of those things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propofol#Contraindications_and_interactions

[Egnever]

10. I understand your difficulties with this

Having said that I will repeat the man is was not the monster you portray him to be. And this was not MJ's first go round with this drug. He was using it as a sleep aid long before Murray was on the scene.

MJ was a severely disturbed individual with a long history of drug abuse. This wasnt a a case where the doctor walked in and said you are having trouble sleeping Here lets give you the most extreme drug we can find to put you out. Thiis is a case where he was called into a situation where MJ was already using this as a sleep aid.

Again I am not trying to say what he did was right, I certainly think it was the wrong thing to do.

What I am saying is I know the man personally and he is not the monster you portray him to be. He made a horrible decision to try to help someone who was beyond help. He is paying for that.

I never got the sense from him in my dealings with him that it was ever about the money. Admittedly my time with him was not that extensive. A few office visits for chest pains I was having while he correctly determined it was not my heart that was giving me trouble.

My father however was an ongoing patient and to this day he credits doctor Murray for saving his life as do I.

He took a chance based on the knowledge he had and maybe MJ begging for it swayed him where it shouldnt have.

I am certainly not calling for him to be pardoned but rethug monster...nope sorry he certainly is not that.

[hlthe2b]

7. as StevenLeser has commented above, the level of professional negligence and wanton disregard

for professional standards and basic patient safety were at the extreme level in this case. This was not simple human error that we all know occurs in medicine and which, while tragic, can only be diminished and not totally prevented. This was crass criminal negligence that any trained in medicine would acknowledge (as did the judge/jury) as negligent homicide.

For a cardiologist to use this potent anesthetic outside the confines of a hospital or fully equipped/fully staffed medical clinic with professionals monitoring 24/7 for a potential adverse reaction to this drug has left those with the medical knowledge to understand the issue simply incredulous. This wasn't ignorance. It could not be "simple ignorance/negligence" with a cardiologist-- unless he went through his entire career failing to understand even the basics of cardio-pulmonary physiology and the most basic concepts of "standard of care" medicine.

He knew the risks. He knew how inappropriate and grotesquely dangerous this was. He knew he was being recruited to do so with a very lucrative salary precisely because virtually NO ONE else would have. This drug is used in veterinary medicine as well and I can assure you that use with precisely such a lack of precautions resulting in death of the animal would likewise result in a veterinarian's loss of license and civil liability. When I say this, I mean ANY veterinarian and not limited to a specialist veterinary cardiologist professional. I hope that drives home to you exactly how intensely inappropriate this action was for this physician to do and why any with medical background are so appalled.

I'm glad he has some redeeming aspects to his earlier career and as a compassionate person-- in terms of his care of your father. I remember you defending him, based on this, when the allegations first began to be directed at this doctor, shortly after MJ's death. I realize you don't want to believe that someone who did a kindness for your father could be guilty of such crass indifference to the life of another, but that is the fact. I can only hope he NEVER practices again, unless at the level of a cardiac physician assistant--under the extreme supervision of a team of other physicians. What he did is (in medicine) as close as it comes to unforgivable.

[uponit7771]

8. I've heard of doctors being far more stupid and not going to jail for it or even being fined

...that's why I see his sentence as extreme

[hlthe2b]

9. And you are surprised that our justice system if so inperfect?

(in this and all things?)

It is certainly possible that had this particular doctor admitted his responsibility and come across to judge/jury considerably less defiant (and perhaps, arrogant), that he might have avoided the worst consequences.

In general (and as born out by studies of medical malpractice), we can generally "forgive" those who are sincerely contrite and admit their errors--those who do are far less likely to be sued. One might presume (if a study of criminal cases were conducted) that those physicians who admit their negligence--no matter how similarly inexplicable--might fare better as well.

[Egnever]

11. No you misunderstand me

I dont doubt for a second he did it or that it was a negligent call.

What I am objecting to is calling him a monster because of a bad outcome in a bad situation. He most certainly is not.

Negligent n this case more than likely from a professional standpoint but I am sure that it was precisely his compassion for people that led him to that terrible decision.

The idea that no one else would have is false on its face as this was not MJ's first go around with this drug it was something he was using before Murray was ever on the scene.

While I am not a medical professional I am not unacquainted with developed resistances to drugs. Some people can take a handful of depressants and function just fine because they have built up tolerances to it.

People are acting like MJ was some pristine angelic figure that this demon doctor came to and killed, when the truth is far from that. MJ was a sick twisted individual with a long history of drug abuse long before Murray came on the scene.

His motives for being there I cant comment on as I dont know what drove him to be there if it was the lure of stardom or the money or both or just the desire to help a troubled individual.

What I do know is that in all my dealings with him he was always a very kind man and willing to sit and go through all aspects of your health decisions with you.

I have dealt with many doctors in my years and of the hundreds I have seen in my life he is up on the top of the list when it comes to caring for the patient and willingness to be completely open about whatever your condition was.

As far as horrific things doctors do I can think of many more horrible than allowing a patient to continue using medication
they have been using for years. It doesnt begin to rank for me in the horrifying realm.

we had a whole clinic here in Vegas that was re using needles to save a couple pennies and infected hundreds with hepatitis. That's horiffic and monstrous. Bending to the will of a drug addict patient is certainly negligent and stupid but far far from monstrous IMHO regardless of what drug that addict was hooked on.

In my dealing with doctors over the years theres a couple thing I have learned. They are human just like everyone else they make bad calls. There are great docs and some that I wonder if i have more knowledge than they do in their fields.

I have seen doctors cling to outdated regimens for treatments simply because they are comfortable with them and unwilling to take the effort to learn newer better practices.

The level of hubris in the field is appalling. Maybe that was his big mistake thinking he knew best.

[hlthe2b]

12. I do not/will not blame the victim for his death at the hand of grotesque malpractice.

Nor does the law nor any medical board in this country. It is the highly trained medical professional that has both the moral and legal responsibility to "first do no harm" and that is independent of whether the patient is "difficult", "demanding", or potentially self-destructive.

And, kindly note, I NEVER called him a "monster.".. Those are very much YOUR words. I very much resent those who would attribute comments/sentiments I NEVER made to me. Once you do that, you have closed down what should have been a constructive discussion--since we do agree in many areas already.

Monster? No... But an individual whose gross malpractice in total disregard for the welfare of his patient result in death. He bears that responsibility. Yet to date, he has shown no willingness to take that responsibility for his actions. It is that which he has in common with many Republicans/conservatives--who never seem willing to take responsibility for their own misdeeds while they will blame everyone and every other thing in the world for their own malfeasance.

And, yes, until that time that he does take responsibility for his own actions, I am VERY glad he will not be treating others--including your father again. They deserve far better.

[Egnever]

14. Fair enough

My apologies for reading something into what you were saying that you were not.

[winter is coming]

3. Give me a few minutes.... nope, still don't give a shit. n/t

[CBGLuthier]

4. The only thing he did wrong was help an idiot kill himself

But the world lost a moneymaker and the world has to have its moneymakers.

[MADem]

6. There is a wrongful death lawsuit asking for Billions underway, which avers that the concert

promotion firm hired/directed the activities of this doctor.

That's likely the motivation here. If some of the blame can be shifted, perhaps Murray hopes he'll get an early out. At the very least, he'll get a few days "outside" if he's called to testify.

[backscatter712]

13. Let's see... Out of all the stories they could have picked...

North Korea's belligerence, the sequester, bankster fraud and malfeasance, the Afghan war, drone strikes, GOP cockblocking of just about everything, global climate change, Europe's economic woes, Greek neo-nazis on the rampage, domestic gun nut racists on the rampage...

... they put Michael Jackson's doctor on the headline.