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kpete

(71,981 posts)
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 10:32 AM Apr 2013

KRUGMAN: "California"

* And California as an experiment for liberal economics: Conservatives like to point to California as a glaring example of the failure of liberal policies, but Paul Krugman pushes back on this storyline: now that the GOP in that state has lost its power to obstruct, we may now see a test run for genuinely progressive economic policies.

..............

The point, however, is that these problems bear no resemblance to the death-by-liberalism story line the California-bashers keep peddling. California isn’t a state in which liberals have run wild; it’s a state where a liberal majority has been effectively hamstrung by a fanatical conservative minority that, thanks to supermajority rules, has been able to block effective policy-making.

And that’s where things get really interesting — because the era of hamstrung government seems to be coming to an end. Over the years, California’s Republicans moved right as the state moved left, yet retained political relevance thanks to their blocking power. But at this point the state’s G.O.P. has fallen below critical mass, losing even its power to obstruct — and this has left Mr. Brown free to push an agenda of tax hikes and infrastructure spending that sounds remarkably like the kind of thing California used to do before the rise of the radical right.

And if this agenda is successful, it will have national implications. After all, California’s political story — in which a radicalized G.O.P. fell increasingly out of touch with an increasingly diverse and socially liberal electorate, and eventually found itself marginalized — is arguably playing out with a lag on the national scene too.

So is California still the place where the future happens first? Stay tuned.


MORE:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/01/opinion/krugman-lessons-from-a-comeback.html

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KRUGMAN: "California" (Original Post) kpete Apr 2013 OP
k&r nt steve2470 Apr 2013 #1
I'm not moving out of Cali, that's for sure. nt SunSeeker Apr 2013 #2
I love it here. It's still the best state! OnionPatch Apr 2013 #69
I would never move out of California. It's the best place to live xtraxritical Apr 2013 #3
I'm happy here as well Plucketeer Apr 2013 #65
Krugman is insightful as always. nt Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2013 #4
I wish all the Republicans would leave in protest BrotherIvan Apr 2013 #5
They're so rare up here in Sonoma that you have to find one on scavenger hunts. Comrade Grumpy Apr 2013 #25
Yes, thankfully. Webster Green Apr 2013 #26
Hi neighbors stopwastingmymoney Apr 2013 #29
Well, howdy! Webster Green Apr 2013 #31
Hi, Humboldt fans!! Manifestor_of_Light Apr 2013 #77
My son went to Humboldt State. It's like life would be if the hippies had won. NBachers Apr 2013 #89
Being Republican-Free... nikto Apr 2013 #99
Not east of the Plaza DollarBillHines Apr 2013 #67
Those "less-than-desirable" parts of the state? Le Taz Hot Apr 2013 #27
Ok, you got me, I admit I am a coastal elitest. BrotherIvan Apr 2013 #30
You're actually correct dreamnightwind Apr 2013 #60
He/she says Le Taz Hot Apr 2013 #71
If you're going to insult people... ucralum Apr 2013 #66
Yeah, me too. Le Taz Hot Apr 2013 #70
The hyper-sensitivity displayed here might well be unique to this site. Egalitarian Thug Apr 2013 #79
Well I wouldn't blame people dreamnightwind Apr 2013 #84
Exactly. I don't get why people get so worked up over defending/pretending their area's deficiencies Egalitarian Thug Apr 2013 #95
Your post drips with elitism and the sad thing is? Le Taz Hot Apr 2013 #91
LOL! "DLC sycophants?" Wrong end of the scale, try again. I represent the rabble rousing red menace. Egalitarian Thug Apr 2013 #94
Democrats are making headway there CreekDog Apr 2013 #107
that poster bashes the Bay Area, you have nothing to apologize for CreekDog Apr 2013 #106
that would include... bakersfield nightscanner59 Apr 2013 #87
Spent a lot of time there, have you? Le Taz Hot Apr 2013 #93
Just passing through more times than I can count.. funny thing about it though.. nightscanner59 Apr 2013 #100
And, like most of your cohorts, Le Taz Hot Apr 2013 #101
Please, all meant tongue in cheek. No real offense meant if misunderstood. nightscanner59 Apr 2013 #102
Whoa... Le Taz, didn't see the direction the previous posts were going. It's all relative: nightscanner59 Apr 2013 #103
At least up here in this less desirable part of the state tularetom Apr 2013 #90
You're not helping! Le Taz Hot Apr 2013 #92
You can't? That sucks! BrotherIvan Apr 2013 #97
David Sirota: "California is friggin' awesome" DinahMoeHum Apr 2013 #6
The GOP cuts off our hands and the criticizes us for a bad penmanship. alfredo Apr 2013 #7
+1000 OrwellwasRight Apr 2013 #17
Thanks. I needed that. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #51
Great post libodem Apr 2013 #8
Sounds To Me Like California DallasNE Apr 2013 #9
There's a saying that sort of nails this as far as coast-to-coast trend-watching. calimary Apr 2013 #10
A great post BrotherIvan Apr 2013 #32
Thank you, and Welcome to DU, BrotherIvan! calimary Apr 2013 #108
I totally agree! BrotherIvan Apr 2013 #109
Thanks, BrotherIvan! calimary Apr 2013 #111
Great Post... WCGreen Apr 2013 #35
Done! calimary Apr 2013 #112
Fantastic post. SomeGuyInEagan Apr 2013 #56
Got it. Will do. HERE: calimary Apr 2013 #110
Great post, indeed! tex-wyo-dem Apr 2013 #83
California should be an object lesson ewagner Apr 2013 #11
Prop 13 was the worst thing that happened to California, politically.... YoungDemCA Apr 2013 #12
And it is still keeping this xxqqqzme Apr 2013 #40
And the property tax burden has shifted even more over time to owner occupied residences Gormy Cuss Apr 2013 #47
That is very easy to understand. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #55
IIRC, one popular strategy is to sell the property incrementally Gormy Cuss Apr 2013 #61
Right. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #62
You got it. xxqqqzme Apr 2013 #86
That was the whole point of prop 13, and it was pointed out over and over again. Egalitarian Thug Apr 2013 #81
Prop 13 edhopper Apr 2013 #45
They need to get rid of the "super majority" bullshit thelordofhell Apr 2013 #13
That was just a ruse to get us to vote for Prop. 13. Cleita Apr 2013 #22
I agree, but it did allow my mother, on a small fixed income WHEN CRABS ROAR Apr 2013 #34
I don't regret that and am happy your mother got a break. Cleita Apr 2013 #37
We give too many special tax deals to corporations. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #58
I rented as well and agree with you. WHEN CRABS ROAR Apr 2013 #64
This goes back to the question of whether corporations are persons JDPriestly Apr 2013 #57
California waddirum Apr 2013 #14
Great State! kpete Apr 2013 #18
The grizzly bear on our flag is almost extinct here. Sad isn't it? Cleita Apr 2013 #23
There are no grizzlies in California Floyd_Gondolli Apr 2013 #38
I heard there have been sightings way up in the northeast of the state. Cleita Apr 2013 #39
Some confuse blacks with browns Floyd_Gondolli Apr 2013 #41
I wouldn't mistake one, but then I've seen the real thing near the Canadian border, but Cleita Apr 2013 #43
The bear on the flag is the California golden bear KamaAina Apr 2013 #49
The California Golden bear is a grizzly sub-species. n/t Cleita Apr 2013 #53
Here's a link to a story about "Monarch", the Grizzly Bear on the CA state flag. cherokeeprogressive Apr 2013 #80
Which Is Why The River Apr 2013 #15
We too (except more like 2,017 days) Kip Humphrey Apr 2013 #48
Let's hope JEFF9K Apr 2013 #16
However, if we don't change the supermajority rules in our Assembly, the minority could rule Cleita Apr 2013 #19
I'm cautiously optimistic for us. Starry Messenger Apr 2013 #20
Living in San Diego was political hell, WHEN CRABS ROAR Apr 2013 #21
KnR. Great read Hekate Apr 2013 #24
K&R idwiyo Apr 2013 #28
I had to leave California Liberalagogo Apr 2013 #33
Is Tahoe-Truckee a nice place to live? Kolesar Apr 2013 #36
I love it there. DH and I spent three months there camping, and moving from one Cleita Apr 2013 #42
It gets cold at 6000 feet Kolesar Apr 2013 #59
Not only that, the Donner Pass gets snowed in several times a year preventing Cleita Apr 2013 #72
In every weather forecast, the stations in Oakland warn motorists: "Don't Go" Kolesar Apr 2013 #98
I'm A Native Californian supercats Apr 2013 #44
Huge K&R! n/t Duval Apr 2013 #46
We need more water in Southern California. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #50
So Cal has always needed water as long as I remember. Cleita Apr 2013 #54
I'd vote for it even if it increased my water bill. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #63
How I wish november3rd Apr 2013 #52
Without Reagan, Jamaal510 Apr 2013 #73
This is only a mystery in Big Media Doctor_J Apr 2013 #68
Hopefully by the time THIS trend reaches the heartland... Beartracks Apr 2013 #74
Reading that, I suddenly realized something. Right-wingers in the middle of the country think Marr Apr 2013 #75
Yes. Crazy stuff comes out of right-wing minds. If California kept 10% of what it sends out bluestate10 Apr 2013 #78
Meantime, their schools are crumbling, roads full of potholes nightscanner59 Apr 2013 #104
I wish I could afford to live there Nevernose Apr 2013 #76
I'll be lucky to afford Tecopa Hot Springs on the way out this time. Ironic: nightscanner59 Apr 2013 #105
Kick for California.. my old stomping grounds! Cha Apr 2013 #82
Staying right here! oldandhappy Apr 2013 #85
Born in San Francisco and grew up for my first 5 years in Pacifica. DEMTough Apr 2013 #88
I want to move back to Calif. Politicub Apr 2013 #96
 

xtraxritical

(3,576 posts)
3. I would never move out of California. It's the best place to live
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 12:03 PM
Apr 2013

(if you stay clear of the cops!) in the country. It's such a blessing when RW Republicons leave for Idaho!

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
65. I'm happy here as well
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 06:18 PM
Apr 2013

Having lived here and there thru trhe years, I've realized there ain't no Utopia. Not in Cali - not anyplace else. But Cali's the best so far.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
5. I wish all the Republicans would leave in protest
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 12:21 PM
Apr 2013

Thankfully most of them are in the less-desirable parts of the state. But I would like all the yuppie assholes to exit Orange Country please.

Webster Green

(13,905 posts)
31. Well, howdy!
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 03:30 PM
Apr 2013

I'm up in the hills right outside of Guerneville. Planning to move back to Southern Humboldt within a couple of weeks (max).

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
77. Hi, Humboldt fans!!
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 09:04 PM
Apr 2013

My daughter did a junior year exchange at Humboldt State. She said there was a lot less drug use there than at other universities she attended, because you could go rock climbing and the Agate Beach was a mile away. There was physical activity to do because of the landscape.

She said, "You'd love it here, Mom. This is Liberal Disneyland."

NBachers

(17,098 posts)
89. My son went to Humboldt State. It's like life would be if the hippies had won.
Tue Apr 2, 2013, 01:49 AM
Apr 2013

I always loved my visits there. During graduation week, there was the usual Farmer's Market and music on the village square. One of the bands was named "The Compost Mountain Boys." They dedicated their last song to all the growers in the audience.

It was like visiting a liberated zone- and I live right in the Mission District, in San Francisco.

I was so proud to see Meg Whitman go down in flames after spending mega-millions trying to get elected.

Here's hoping for a Republican-free California, followed by The Great Republican Collapse in the entire United States of America.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
30. Ok, you got me, I admit I am a coastal elitest.
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 03:27 PM
Apr 2013

I love my state, I'm one of the few people I know surprisingly that was born and raised here. I lived in NoCal for college and after and can't wait to get the hell out of LA as I refer to Sonoma County as God's Country (or Orwell's The Golden Country). It's truly a sight to behold and the best quality of life I've experienced anywhere in the country.

In my experience, the Rs are I know are fundies living in the deserts and valleys and the bastion of Randian hell known as Orange County. The only Rmoney stickers I saw on cars were white BMWs and Lexus SUVs. As 99Forever said, truly the poster children of IGMFU.

So yes, I will admit to a blinding bias. Didn't mean to offend.

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
60. You're actually correct
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 05:56 PM
Apr 2013

so no need to worry about elitism. Most of the state's population lives near the coast. With only a few small isolated exceptions, if you are further than 60 miles inland of the coast, the political landscape is red, similar to the midwest. And those are the less desirable parts of the state, which is why it is so much cheaper to live in those areas.

Sonoma county resident here. Good luck finding your way out of LA.

ucralum

(89 posts)
66. If you're going to insult people...
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 06:29 PM
Apr 2013

in your title line, you might want to spell more carefully.

Signed, one of those people who is apparently a fucking fundie dumbass because she chooses to live somewhere other than where you choose to live

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
70. Yeah, me too.
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 08:15 PM
Apr 2013

Get used to it. There's a LOT of geographical elitism here. Welcome to DU and whatever you do, DON'T go into the California group, it's geographical elitism on steroids.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
79. The hyper-sensitivity displayed here might well be unique to this site.
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 10:17 PM
Apr 2013

Based on what you've written here, I take it that you live in one of the imminently, justifiably less desirable parts of the state.

Well, take a look around you. Who's running your city and/or county? Who's doing the actual work that makes it all happen? The owners are no, or at least not much, different than the owners in Missouri, Alabama, Kansas, take you pick of red state hell on earth.

If you are living where you live by choice, then you need to work much harder to educate the victims of that system and to gain inclusion for them. If you are living there because you are trapped in the poverty cycle that allows these cesspools to thrive, you need to work much harder to educate your sisters and brothers in how they can make things better.

But whining because other people can clearly see that you have, thus far, eluded success, is just about the only thing you can do that is completely non-productive.

Get over it, and get on with it.

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
84. Well I wouldn't blame people
Tue Apr 2, 2013, 12:24 AM
Apr 2013

living in red areas for their fate, there are many ways this happens to excellent people. I've been there myself. I imagine the people here you're responding to are part of the solution and not part of the problem.

But hearing that it's geographical elitism to call it like it is? I don't get that at all. I've lived in numerous parts of northern California, including the progressive coastal areas, in an inland progressive oasis surrounded by red, and in the inland red valleys. There's no denying the political realities here. Inland California is probably no more blue than somewhere like Kansas.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
95. Exactly. I don't get why people get so worked up over defending/pretending their area's deficiencies
Tue Apr 2, 2013, 06:26 AM
Apr 2013

I currently reside in the midst of crazy-town. Ron Paulians, corporadems, and republican thieves dominate here, but it doesn't make any sense to take it personally. All we can do is keep pressuring the one's that can make a difference.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
91. Your post drips with elitism and the sad thing is?
Tue Apr 2, 2013, 04:04 AM
Apr 2013

You don't even recognize it.

What you call "hypersensitivity" is a reaction to people like you, who don't live here, who've never spent time here, passing judgment on people who CHOOSE (got that? CHOOSE) to live here. Your post comes off as the height of sanctimony preaching from afar, what we "should" and "should not" be doing without ever spending one second even trying to understand the culture here. You're as bad as the Republicans and their' "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" diatribe. Yes, unbelievable as it seems, people do WANT to live here. They like the rural settings, they like the sense of community, they like the sense of belonging and they know their neighbors. They like producing the food YOU and the rest of the world eats.

I grew up in Los Angeles. Born and raised there. And while I have no problem with Angelinos and people who live on the coast or in the Bay Area you couldn't PAY me to live there (and I've had plenty of opportunity to move) and you know why? Because I don't EVER want to live around people like you.

You want to know why the Democrats can't make headway here? Calling the place that we live in and love a "cesspool?" Re-read your post, Einstien and then ask me that question again. On second thought, don't bother -- I have no patience with DLC sycophants anyway so there's no great loss. :flush:

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
94. LOL! "DLC sycophants?" Wrong end of the scale, try again. I represent the rabble rousing red menace.
Tue Apr 2, 2013, 05:56 AM
Apr 2013

It's the republicans and their DLC-3rd Way allies that did this to CA. IOW the people running the reddest parts of CA are the people benefiting from keeping the people that are doing the work from having their say.

But please, continue to ignore the cause of conservatism in the Kansas-like parts of the state. I'm sure that will make it all better.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
107. Democrats are making headway there
Thu Apr 4, 2013, 04:58 AM
Apr 2013

where have you been?

the Central Valley has been trending at the edges and now in lots of places towards Democrats.

can't make headway? yes they can.

can they make headway with giant agribusiness? probably not without selling their souls.

nightscanner59

(802 posts)
100. Just passing through more times than I can count.. funny thing about it though..
Wed Apr 3, 2013, 12:46 AM
Apr 2013

How in the worst of economic times there is a job position waiting for me there.. but have never succombed.

nightscanner59

(802 posts)
102. Please, all meant tongue in cheek. No real offense meant if misunderstood.
Thu Apr 4, 2013, 04:19 AM
Apr 2013

You're sort of losing me here. I can name many a worse place!!!!

nightscanner59

(802 posts)
103. Whoa... Le Taz, didn't see the direction the previous posts were going. It's all relative:
Thu Apr 4, 2013, 04:38 AM
Apr 2013

I don't permanently "live" anywhere, haven't for 23 years. I travel for work, and home is where I hang my hat. I own property in an impoverished area in Arizona that makes bakersfield look like Palo Alto, seemed like this was turning into "elite" areas "vs" "momenpop", but let's not lose the idea that obstructionist ideas, policies and the give-it-all to the rich republicanism fail to stimulate significant growth, further impoverish the poor and create quagmires of unemployment! The government has to take the lead on redistributions because Shell Oil sure as hell won't. Allowing schools to crumble via voting down bonds for 30 plus years now has created some quagmires in Arizona that will make the likes of Bakersfield's problems look like havens. I can show you an arizona public elementary school that looks like a cardboard shack--- because it is, and a surrounding populace so afraid of the "gubmint", at that rate nothing will improve.
No, I don't pretend to be an "expert" on any area, but I know what I've seen, living most everywhere in the southwest all my life.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
97. You can't? That sucks!
Tue Apr 2, 2013, 11:55 AM
Apr 2013


And while I didn't mean to start the coastal vs. inland wars, I will double down and say that I find any place with too many Republicans "less-desirable."

DinahMoeHum

(21,783 posts)
6. David Sirota: "California is friggin' awesome"
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 12:22 PM
Apr 2013

saw this last week:

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/26/gops_inane_war_on_california/


Great comments afterwards in the piece, including this gem:

One thing David didn't mention is our governor doesn't have to (repeatedly) travel to Texas to try to 'steal' businesses. Texas' greatest business success--Dell--is on the ropes and I suspect, eventually, some of the businesses that have taken the bait will regret it.

DallasNE

(7,402 posts)
9. Sounds To Me Like California
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 12:31 PM
Apr 2013

Avoided becoming another Greece because Republicans lost the critical mass to obstruct in California so good government could once again function. Duh. Is anybody watching?

calimary

(81,194 posts)
10. There's a saying that sort of nails this as far as coast-to-coast trend-watching.
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 12:46 PM
Apr 2013

"As California goes, so goes the nation."

We started it all, unfortunately and HUGELY regretfully, with that fucking howard jarvis and Prop 13, which came two years before Supply-Side Monster ronald reagan took over and started us down the road toward political/fiscal Hell.

And that's what started the red tide flushing across the country from west to east. HORRIFYING. It empowered the nutcases and the selfish cheapskates and the IGMFU contingent much the same way as the teabaggers got their shot of adrenaline by the realization that there was a black guy in the Oval Office who wasn't the janitor.

We seem to have stepped over the shit-pile of Prop 13 somewhat here in California, FINALLY! It used to be the knee-jerk destruct button behind which the bad guys always took refuge - "Proposition 13!!! NO TAXES!!! Taxes BAAAAAAAAADDD!!!" crap they'd yell as though they were spring-loaded, every time a ballot measure came along, or someone in Sacramento proposed raising revenue to pay for stuff we actually and seriously do NEED...

Keith Olbermann used to call 'em the "Something For Nothing" crowd, and he was correct. These assholes haven't changed. They STILL want their benefits and their government-provided goodies and relief programs and FEMA and other stuff - but they just don't want to have to pay for any of it.

I think we have to further the push-back by starting a meme. What if, every time a statement was made about a necessary (or seemingly necessary) program that isn't around anymore or that's being threatened with being cut - that statement were to BEGIN with "well, because nobody wants to pay taxes..."?

"Well, because nobody wants to pay taxes, we have to cut costs and do things like canceling the White House tours..."

"Well, because nobody wants to pay taxes, those 30 school's are gonna have to close..."

"Well, because nobody wants to pay taxes, you can't drive over that bridge anymore and your commute to and from work has just increased by more than two hours..."

"Well, because nobody wants to pay taxes, that benefit check you were expecting is gonna be smaller..."

"Well, because nobody wants to pay taxes, you're gonna have to wait about 45 minutes after you call 911..."

"Well, because nobody wants to pay taxes, that military base in your county that generates all those jobs is gonna be closed..."

"Well, because nobody wants to pay taxes, those after-school programs (or elder-care programs) are coming to an end..."

You get the idea...

The bad guys have spent 30-40 YEARS demonizing the very IDEA of paying taxes. "Taxes BAAAAAAAAAADDD!" And the knee-jerker selfish short-sighted cheapskates who want it NOW and to hell with the ramifications in the future seize upon that and are then able to trash EVERYTHING that needs stimulus spending or infrastructure upkeep or disaster aid or or early-childhood assistance programs or disability benefits or whatever it is. THERE HAS BEEN NO CONNECTION MADE BETWEEN TAXES AND WHAT WE NEED THOSE TAXES TO UNDERWRITE. No connection has been made.

It's been completely and utterly short-sheeted. The very concept of "Tax RELIEF" was a VERY shrewd word-play. You combine the word for what you don't like - with a word that reinforces that thing you dislike. "Taxes" are perceived as bad. So you partner it with a word like "relief," as in - you need relief from taxes (because they're bad). "Taxes" are something you need relief or protection or rescue - FROM. They're awfully shrewd about this stuff, and all those big-ass "foundations" and "institutes" and "think tanks" they've founded and funded since the 70s and 80s - have been in place to think this policy through and develop it into something workable - that allows you to start changing the look of the political/social landscape. It allows you to reprogram and, in effect, brainwash the public into seeing things YOUR way.

And our side has done nothing about it until the last few years when some people on our side finally started waking up and taking this seriously. It's been SO frustrating!!!!!!! We here on DU have been talking about this for more than a decade. SOME others around us in this country are FINALLY starting to wake up and smell the coffee on this. FINALLY. Only 30 or 40 years behind, that's all.

So since our "leaders" on the left - SOME of whom are waking up to this reality - are, indeed, just getting started, WE who've understood this problem and have been on this tip-of-spear since at least the early 2000s should be TAKING THE LEAD.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
32. A great post
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 03:40 PM
Apr 2013

My Danish partner shrewdly pointed out that Americans hate paying taxes because they don't see what they get from them. And to some extent, our government hasn't done a great job of advertising this. Government programs help someone else, like the poor, and the IGMFU crowd (I love that moniker) from all economic classes sees their tax monies as being shoveled away, not flowing back to them. They have made everything from education to the police so broken, and let's not forget funneling most of it to endless war, it's a hard sell to ask for more money.

I'm hoping, in fact praying, that perhaps California can find a way to single payer. Then people can really see how government can work in their favor. But also, when I lived in Canada for a while, I saw so many benefits of a higher tax system for everyone, so people did not seem as bitter about higher tax rates. Not only the health system which is fantastic, but safe, clean cities, a good metro system that was so clean I would have sat on the floor where here I don't even want to sit on the seats, mail delivered twice a day, students going to college and not coming out broke, and on and on. My Canadian neighbors may scream at my ignorance and do have rightful critiques of their own system, but from an American point of view, it was a very civilized place to live.

They've done such a great job of making government programs "eeeevil Socialism!" so most Americans can't see that they WORK and demand them. California being such a large economy has a real chance to prove that Democratic/liberal ideas are what is needed to turn our country around. I hope they really grab the chance and govern now that they have the reins, unlike their federal counterparts who may have purposely squandered the opportunity.

calimary

(81,194 posts)
108. Thank you, and Welcome to DU, BrotherIvan!
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:36 AM
Apr 2013

Glad you're here! SO many of us here "get it." I just wish we could share that knowledge with more people outside of here. It's just so incredibly important to connect the dots!!!

I was just reading yet another article aimed at musicians and bands and band management (since I manage my kid's band). And again and again they make the same recommendation: BE MINDFUL OF THE "WHAT'S IN IT FOR ME."

For example, when you're trying to build a fan base, it's helpful to understand that most people go to the internet looking for something THEY want or need. Recommendations for a new restaurant. Tips on new music. The goods on the new movie. Where they can get something for free or cheap. What benefits them personally. What's in it for them. And the best advice always goes toward "Don't be about 'buy my album,' 'buy my concert tickets,' 'come to my show,' etc." The best advice always stresses "make them feel like YOU are THEIR fan!" Engage them in some way. Offer them something. What's in it for THEM?

Seems to me that's the key here - everyone's been programmed for years - indeed, BRAINWASHED - into thinking that TAX = BAD.

And if that's all you hear - "taxes bad, taxes bad, taxes bad," in all its many permutations, that's all you're going to think. You've heard the saying before - "garbage in, garbage out." Which is the Holy Writ of such outfits as Pox Noise and the whole limbaugh-and-clones madness. They pump NON-STOP GARBAGE into their listeners and viewers minds. They offer nothing BUT that same NON-STOP GARBAGE. They certainly don't offer any other view or different opinion or alternative outlook. So with nothing else for the listener or viewer to vibe upon, take in, kick around in his/her own mind, sit with, sleep on, or otherwise absorb, then what else is he/she to think or conclude or process, or trust? Indeed, in the truest sense, you are what you eat, literally AND figuratively. You are what you take in.

We are only beginning to deprogram America. For example, look how long it's taken for ANY OTHER VIEW than the NRA's to start breaking through on the gun violence issue? Look how long it's taken!!! Like all the other bad-guy entities out there, the NRA also has had DECADES of head-start on this. They've been allowed - by idiocy, naivete, and fear - to monopolize the conversation for FAR too long. Our side is seriously just now waking up. We have DECADES of catching up to do. And most of it starts with explaining why taxes are NOT bad.

The bad guys (and I label them as such because they ARE. What they do is bad, what they want is bad, what they believe in is by 'n' large bad, and what they want to do to America is BAD!) have succeeded in demonizing and undermining government, taxes, and everything that contributes to a beneficial collective that focuses on the greater good for all, rather than just a pinched selfish good-for-an-elite-few-who-already-have-it-disproportionally-good. Thank ronald reagan for that. "Government isn't the solution to the problem, it IS the problem." Okay. Tell that to the Hurricane Sandy survivors whose meager state coffers and services were instantly overwhelmed and only an entity as big as the feds could deal with what needed to be dealt with. God, I despise ronald reagan. Unfortunately, California foisted THAT seemingly-benign fiend upon the rest of an unsuspecting America, too.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
109. I totally agree!
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:51 AM
Apr 2013

You are so correct about garbage in and garbage out, which is why the death of education is such a big deal. Everyone, regardless of socio-economic background has the responsibility to not consume garbage. We just have to make it desirable again to be smart, and not just "genius to make a billion dollars smart" but smart enough to question all the crap coming from the tv and the pulpit.

And I do believe that Reaganism must be fully confronted and purged from our country's fabric of thought. I see hope in the next generation that didn't grow up during the 80s. Sharing and community are cool again. Tolerance and live and let live are second nature (this doesn't apply to everyone). But at the core is still that festering idea of core selfishness and over-consumption that has brought us here. I'm sorry to say I hate Reagan worst of all because his ideas are what allowed the evil of Cheney and Bush to be unleashed upon this country.

Thanks for this great discussion! It's been a great pleasure to hang out with the California folks! Well, the non-bitter ones anyway

calimary

(81,194 posts)
111. Thanks, BrotherIvan!
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:31 PM
Apr 2013

You are EXACTLY correct about how reagan's "ideas" DID INDEED open the floodgates that allowed the floating shit of bush/cheney to drift in and infect an entire populace. reagan himself sure did. He was an opportunistic infection on two legs.


I was encouraged to make a thread of my post, so I did!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022619428

calimary

(81,194 posts)
112. Done!
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:40 PM
Apr 2013
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022619428

And you're correct - more people should see ideas like this, not merely because they happen to be something I wrote up. I just really believe in this kind of counter-programming. You start with the slow and steady and constant drumbeat - just like the bad guys did. But you splice on - YOUR message.

Remember, dubya himself said his job was to "kind of catapult the propaganda." That's what their repeating and repeating and repeating and repeating their message, over and over again, through countless talking heads on cable TV, countless loudmouths (lout-mouths?) and bullies on the radio, countless representatives at the state, local, and national level parroting the same damn blast-faxed, focus-group-tested, pasteurize-processed and homogenized talking points.

Anyone remember back to the very grim days after the election in 2000? Remember how EVERYONE with an "r" by their name, whether in office or out, was saying the SAME DAMN WORDS OVER AND OVER AGAIN - under any and all circumstances where they found themselves with cameras and mics in their faces - "well, they counted. They counted again. And they counted a THIRD time..." I saw EVERYBODY rattling off that Chatty-Cathy-pull-her-string-and-hear-her-talk blather. They all got their marching orders. They all got in line. They all studied their scripts - that went out to EVERYBODY EVERYWHERE, either from the RNC directly OR from operatives in frank luntz's office or kkkarl rove's office or the American Enterprise Institute or the Heritage Foundation or the Cato Institute or any one of the multitude of other cockamamie organizations funding this low-key, under-the-radar HOSTILE TAKEOVER they've been working at since reagan's day.

Gotta hand it to 'em - they saw an opportunity and they damn well made the most of it!

So what I'm saying here is - WHY CAN'T WE????????

calimary

(81,194 posts)
110. Got it. Will do. HERE:
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:18 PM
Apr 2013

Last edited Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:50 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022619428


We have a LOT of de-programming to do. And that's EXACTLY what it is: de-programming.

tex-wyo-dem

(3,190 posts)
83. Great post, indeed!
Tue Apr 2, 2013, 12:01 AM
Apr 2013

It never ceases to amaze me how RWers obstruct any efforts to increase revenues and constantly demonize taxation and push for tax cuts, yet when government functions start to fail due to lack of funding, they say "see, big government doesn't work" and are the first ones to bitch when some government service fails them.

I'll never forget growing up in my hometown that is an agriculture community and very red, the farmers/ranchers constantly complained about government this and government that, but if they didn't receive their subsidy check on time, you never heard so much bitching

ewagner

(18,964 posts)
11. California should be an object lesson
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 12:48 PM
Apr 2013

..for teaching the rest of America about the consequences of Republican obstructionism...

THIS is what happens when an ideological minority decides to punish the majority....

 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
12. Prop 13 was the worst thing that happened to California, politically....
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 12:55 PM
Apr 2013

It allowed large landowners and corporations to get a huge tax write-off, all at the expense of local and state public services.

We would never have been in much of a fiscal hole if said landowners and corporations had payed higher taxes. The demand for public services has skyrocketed, in California and elsewhere, due to the effects of Reaganomics and other neo-liberal policies, but Prop 13 ensured that the wealthiest people and corporations would be off the hook for any cost to the public.

xxqqqzme

(14,887 posts)
40. And it is still keeping this
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 04:22 PM
Apr 2013

state from realizing its potential. I can understand the the need for the private home owner getting some relief when property taxes kept rising. It is the corporate landholders folded into it that spelled, and continues to spell. failure.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
47. And the property tax burden has shifted even more over time to owner occupied residences
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 05:03 PM
Apr 2013

Has the Distribution of the Property Tax Base Changed Over Time?

There is little statewide information regarding the composition of California’s property tax base over time. Based on the available information, however, it appears that homeowners may be paying a larger percentage of total property taxes today than they did decades ago. (snip)We note, for example, that the assessed value of owner–occupied homes has increased from a low of 32 percent of statewide assessed valuation in 1986–87 to a high of 39 percent in 2005–06. (The share was 36 percent in 2011–12.) It also appears likely that owners of commercial property are paying a smaller percentage of property taxes than they did decades ago. For example, Los Angeles County reports that the share of total assessed value represented by commercial property in the county declined from 40 percent in 1985 to 30 percent in 2012. In addition, the assessed value of commercial property in Santa Clara County has declined (as a share of the county total) from 29 percent to 24 percent since 1999–00.


http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2012/tax/property-tax-primer-112912.aspx

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
55. That is very easy to understand.
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 05:34 PM
Apr 2013

As I understand it, and I am way oversimplifying, Prop. 13 reassesses property values for tax purposes upon a sale.

We all know that a corporation does not have to die. Its heirs do not have to sell it to pay state inheritance taxes or simply to divide up the proceeds of a sale among siblings.

In addition, the sale of a corporation can be organized so that it does not qualify as a "sale" for purposes of property taxes.

So, a corporation can own property, land and improvements on the land in its own name.

The corporation has shareholders who (again, this is oversimplified) can sell their shares.

When shareholders sell their shares, it's still the corporation and not the shareholders who own the property. The corporation can change hands without a sale of its property.

When the corporation changes hands, so does its property. But that does not necessarily result in an increase in property taxes.

Thus, a corporation can own a property for a long time without having a "sale" that will increase the property taxes on the land.

It's more complicated than that, and corporations can sell property directly so as to cause the taxes on the property to go up.

But this explains one of the reasons that California homeowners even after the crash in 2008 could be paying a greater share of property taxes than businesses.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
61. IIRC, one popular strategy is to sell the property incrementally
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 05:58 PM
Apr 2013

because no reassessment happens until a majority stake is sold. So a corporation can realize profits from a market rate sale of 49% interest without triggering a higher assessment for the portion they still own.

xxqqqzme

(14,887 posts)
86. You got it.
Tue Apr 2, 2013, 12:28 AM
Apr 2013

I deliberately sold my house to my daughter so it wouldn't be re-assessed. Transfer between parent and child is exempt.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
81. That was the whole point of prop 13, and it was pointed out over and over again.
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 10:37 PM
Apr 2013

I was there and my entire life has been shaped by that monstrosity.

And yet, to this very day you can find a never-ending supply of idiots that are still defending the wholesale destruction it wrought on the greatest state in the union.

edhopper

(33,556 posts)
45. Prop 13
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 04:31 PM
Apr 2013

used a sledgehammer to resolve a problem that needed a chisel.
The intelligent commentary at the time on how it would devastate the state, and how a less draconian approach that would still fix things for the middle class home owners all proved to be true.
And the Howard Jarvises and George Putnams saying how much it would help the state all proved to be wrong.
Surpirzed it took this long to realize how destructive the GOP is.

thelordofhell

(4,569 posts)
13. They need to get rid of the "super majority" bullshit
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 01:01 PM
Apr 2013

Then take businesses out of proposition 13........it was really supposed to be there to help the elderly and poor, not the rich and huge businesses

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
22. That was just a ruse to get us to vote for Prop. 13.
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 02:01 PM
Apr 2013

Jarvis didn't give a crap about the elderly and the poor otherwise we wouldn't have seen the suddenly homeless fill the streets once the services to the mentally ill were stopped by the passage of the Prop, not to mention our free education in the California state college and university system. I think we should keep the 1% property tax for small single, family homes for California residents. Everyone else, those with mansions, second and third homes and those from out of state or out of the country who maintain homes here, like Mitt Romney or the Arab oil sheiks should pay 5%. That should restore California to where it was before Prop. 13.

WHEN CRABS ROAR

(3,813 posts)
34. I agree, but it did allow my mother, on a small fixed income
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 04:01 PM
Apr 2013

to stay in our only home for over 50 years.
We watched poor retiree's being forced out of their homes because they couldn't pay the taxes, this was happening a lot.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
37. I don't regret that and am happy your mother got a break.
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 04:17 PM
Apr 2013

It didn't help us renters though. It created a real estate boom that saw rents tripling in our area, without the commensurate raises in wages to compensate. I had to move as did other tenants. Then landlord decided to make more money by converting rentals to condos, so that triggered another move. We ended up moving into inferior living quarters for the same or more money in neighborhoods that weren't as safe as the ones we left. It also created the homeless problem we have today.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
58. We give too many special tax deals to corporations.
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 05:39 PM
Apr 2013

That is true of the Staples Center in Los Angeles.

We need to end the competition among states and cities that causes them to offer special tax deals to new companies and corporations that move into their area.

That competition is reducing the tax bases across the country.

We give corporations too much help and students, children and the elderly too little.

WHEN CRABS ROAR

(3,813 posts)
64. I rented as well and agree with you.
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 06:15 PM
Apr 2013

Like others have said here, it wasn't written for poor people.
Many rent control measures were voted down as well.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
57. This goes back to the question of whether corporations are persons
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 05:36 PM
Apr 2013

who have to be treated like flesh and blood persons.

If corporations are persons, their property has to be taxed at the same rate as other property.

I may be wrong about this, but I vaguely remember reading this somewhere.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
39. I heard there have been sightings way up in the northeast of the state.
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 04:20 PM
Apr 2013

You may be right though. It could be just noise and there are no grizzlies.

 

Floyd_Gondolli

(1,277 posts)
41. Some confuse blacks with browns
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 04:23 PM
Apr 2013

I've heard similar stories of sightings in southwestern Colorado, which would make (and probably did make at one time) perfect grizz habitat.

A lot of people mistake grizzlies for black bears, which come in a variety of colors other than black.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
43. I wouldn't mistake one, but then I've seen the real thing near the Canadian border, but
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 04:25 PM
Apr 2013

maybe some would.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
49. The bear on the flag is the California golden bear
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 05:10 PM
Apr 2013

or was, since it, too, is nearing extinction.

Fun fact: The bear sculpture outside Gov. Brown's office (commissioned by Ahh-nuld) is the wrong species.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
80. Here's a link to a story about "Monarch", the Grizzly Bear on the CA state flag.
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 10:18 PM
Apr 2013

"The last California grizzly bear to live in San Francisco stands inside a tinted glass case at the California Academy of Sciences, a tragic reminder of a species that humans extinguished.

The dark brown bear named Monarch was captured in 1889 in a publicity stunt concocted by newspaper publisher William Randolph Hearst and kept for 22 years in a cage. California's last captive grizzly, whose image is on the state flag, died 100 years ago this month in Golden Gate Park.
"



http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/CA-grizzly-bear-Monarch-a-symbol-of-suffering-2372855.php#ixzz2PGhb4aT7

The River

(2,615 posts)
15. Which Is Why
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 01:05 PM
Apr 2013

I have decided to spend my retirement years in the Golden State.

I'm tired of the cold mid-Atlantic winters and sick of red state politics.

30 days and counting down.

Kip Humphrey

(4,753 posts)
48. We too (except more like 2,017 days)
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 05:05 PM
Apr 2013

We have some land in Igo (unfortunately the reddest part of California, Shasta County) and plan to build a small retirement home there on our own little ridge top. Can't wait to get out of Houston!!!

JEFF9K

(1,935 posts)
16. Let's hope
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 01:21 PM
Apr 2013

Let's hope that California is just the leading edge of this trend and that we can get our country back.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
19. However, if we don't change the supermajority rules in our Assembly, the minority could rule
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 01:37 PM
Apr 2013

again. This is like Harry Reid refusing to get rid of the filibuster. When the minority conservatives get enough votes, it's back to business with the obstruction policies. Also, it was four turn coat Democrats that caused the failure of California getting single payer health care.

Fox News is a problem here too. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't hear some Freeperism from a Fox News watcher in my area. So I will reserve any sigh of relief for the present until those things are fixed. Then you can see California lead this country back into sanity.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
20. I'm cautiously optimistic for us.
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 01:42 PM
Apr 2013

However, much of our progress is due to high union membership and increased voter turn-out and registration of marginalized groups. States that want to emulate what is happening in CA are going to need some other elements in there too. The G.O.P. didn't just evaporate out of shame or anything.

Hekate

(90,632 posts)
24. KnR. Great read
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 02:15 PM
Apr 2013

Love Krugman -- and I sure hope he's right, especially about the educational system.

 

Liberalagogo

(1,770 posts)
33. I had to leave California
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 03:42 PM
Apr 2013

because of corporate BS and got forced out of my career. So I had to move back home to the god-awful Texas. Those 6 years in San Francisco were pretty good in retrospect compared to the crap life I'm living now. I so much want to go back as Texas has turned to shit. Being a 50-year-old single gay male in Houston, without steady employment totally sucks. If anyone can help me out of this place, I've so appreciate it.

Kolesar

(31,182 posts)
36. Is Tahoe-Truckee a nice place to live?
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 04:14 PM
Apr 2013

My dream would be to snowshoe and ski in a place that has a permanent snow field in the winter. Truckee gets more snow than about anywhere in the US.

What's it like to live there? Home prices are more than double of what I am used to.

How is the traffic, how are the libraries?

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
42. I love it there. DH and I spent three months there camping, and moving from one
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 04:23 PM
Apr 2013

camp ground to another. The winters are brutal though from what I heard from those who spend the whole year there. It's pretty high. What you don't get in the little towns, you can descend the mountain to Reno to shop or go to the library. It's actually a short trip. We used to descend to go to the supermarket, which was less pricey that the ones in the mountains. Of course, gas cost half of what it does today back then.

Kolesar

(31,182 posts)
59. It gets cold at 6000 feet
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 05:46 PM
Apr 2013

I spent a few weeks at Sequoia NP and Yosemite at this time of the year. I thought it was grand. It is further south and warmer. During 2005, the late season storms just kept dumping a few feet of snow on the Sierras every week. Skiing at Sequoia was amazing. We also skied at Yosemite and went on an ungroomed route to the edge of the valley at Dewey Point. Tough skiing, though

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
72. Not only that, the Donner Pass gets snowed in several times a year preventing
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 08:20 PM
Apr 2013

people from coming and going.

Kolesar

(31,182 posts)
98. In every weather forecast, the stations in Oakland warn motorists: "Don't Go"
Tue Apr 2, 2013, 04:58 PM
Apr 2013

"...Or you're going to be turning back"
When it snows, of course
The West is way different from anywhere I have experienced.

 

supercats

(429 posts)
44. I'm A Native Californian
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 04:27 PM
Apr 2013

and I wouldn't live anywhere else. I've tried it (NY, Boulder CO) no thank you. The beach, the weather, the forward thinking...It's the best place to live in America period.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
50. We need more water in Southern California.
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 05:15 PM
Apr 2013

We are getting less than half our average rainfall this year, and we were under a half of average last year.

Climate change? Global warming?

Maybe. But then it could be simply a cycle that is typical for California. Apparently Southern California was home to herds of cattle in the 19th century. Remember the rancheros. I read that, after droughts, our hills were covered with the bones of dead cattle.

We have to live with our changeable weather. It is nothing new. What is new is that it seems, overall, to be getting warmer and drier.

Aside from the weather, the reality is that California is a place of booms and busts some of them caused by nature and some by greed and overoptimism.

The Republicans ran California like their private golf course.

Jerry Brown is running it like a state in which we work together. He is doing a great job and has my support as do all the other Democrats governing our state right now.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
54. So Cal has always needed water as long as I remember.
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 05:31 PM
Apr 2013

Isn't it time to start using technology to turn salt water into fresh water? I believe it's being done in the Middle East.

http://geography.about.com/od/waterandice/a/Water-Desalination.htm

You don't necessarily need to drink it. But it could be used for flushing toilets and watering gardens.

 

november3rd

(1,113 posts)
52. How I wish
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 05:21 PM
Apr 2013

I remember when Jerry Brown ran for President. Just think where we would be now if he had been elected instead of Carter and Reagan.

Jamaal510

(10,893 posts)
73. Without Reagan,
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 08:33 PM
Apr 2013

we probably would have never had such a problem with austerity. Not only did he eliminate the Fairness Doctrine, which opened up a can of worms for Wingnut Radio, but he pretty much started the trickle-down scam that continues to plague blue-collar Americans today. Before him, the GOP seemed to be OK with taxing the so-called "job creators"; Eisenhower had a 90% top tax rate.
I don't care what anybody says about Reagan not being able to fit in today's GOP; he sounded like nothing but a race-baiting Reverse-Robin Hood. He's just like most of the modern Republicans.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
68. This is only a mystery in Big Media
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 07:56 PM
Apr 2013

since the Bush Great Recession, states that have enacted Keynesian economic policies have fared better across the board than those that have doubled down on Voodoo economics. Only in Hate Radio World are tax cuts considered a success.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
75. Reading that, I suddenly realized something. Right-wingers in the middle of the country think
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 08:44 PM
Apr 2013

that places like California are sucking up their tax money, don't they? Rather than the opposite, which is the truth.

bluestate10

(10,942 posts)
78. Yes. Crazy stuff comes out of right-wing minds. If California kept 10% of what it sends out
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 10:09 PM
Apr 2013

to deep red states, California would run a budget surplus within three years and never look back at deficits, ever again.

nightscanner59

(802 posts)
104. Meantime, their schools are crumbling, roads full of potholes
Thu Apr 4, 2013, 04:42 AM
Apr 2013

and unemployment of 15 percent. Yup, all califernya's fault. Fox nooze tol' us.
'

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
76. I wish I could afford to live there
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 08:46 PM
Apr 2013

That's not a knock, it's just a simple economic fact. My wife and I are both teachers (until she gets out of law school, at least), and California's not exactly hiring a lot of teachers right now. And even if we could both get jobs in the same district, we could never afford to live where we would want to live.

Sigh.

Oh well, you wacky Californians enjoy what you've got! I'm sure I'll see y'all next time I'm in Sequoia or King's Canyon, or Humboldt, or downtown LA, or Monterrey, or some beautiful San Diego beach or the campus of SDSU, or that one weird beach in LA that had medical waste all over it (and yet I still went back to), or touring/drinking-my-way-through Santa Barbara, or camping in Death Valley, or taking photos in Joshua Tree, or camping in Tahoe. And San Francisco. I forgot San Francisco, though I recently downgraded it to fourth best city in the world (it was third, if you're wondering).

nightscanner59

(802 posts)
105. I'll be lucky to afford Tecopa Hot Springs on the way out this time. Ironic:
Thu Apr 4, 2013, 04:53 AM
Apr 2013

That I've lived 2/3rds of my life in California, all over like you've been, but have to give up residency between jobs.
My contract's up again, this time because I must go care for aging parents. I don't look forward to leaving for many reasons-- not the least of which is being in that midwestern redneck areas again. Count FOX brainwashing stations along the way.
I depend on the California economy for all my income though. These death-to-progress midwestern towns offer nothing, have nothing, high unemployment, hoardes buying mac and cheese at WalMart for dinner while voting for Romney to save us from the Obama scurge.
So, when away... I sort of shelter myself away in my own little california...

oldandhappy

(6,719 posts)
85. Staying right here!
Tue Apr 2, 2013, 12:26 AM
Apr 2013

California has a lot going for it and I am glad for our current situation with the governor and the legislature.

DEMTough

(90 posts)
88. Born in San Francisco and grew up for my first 5 years in Pacifica.
Tue Apr 2, 2013, 01:32 AM
Apr 2013

Stuck in Orange County now, but I have every intention of transferring to UC Berkeley after I finish working through Community College.

Orange County is awful, fakest of the fake, but I'm thankful I'm in California and not in the middle of the dry midwest. (Excluding Chicago, I love it there.) No oceans. California has a bit of everything, oceans, beaches, lakes, mountains, deserts, plains (if you want), cities, towns, everything.

Though Orange County is making strides in becoming a purple county. (Yes, Orange County, California, great, isn't it?)

I will never move out of California for the rest of my days. People spend their whole lives wishing to live here. I was BORN here, I'm incredibly lucky and thankful for that.

My final statement: Yosemite.

Politicub

(12,165 posts)
96. I want to move back to Calif.
Tue Apr 2, 2013, 08:52 AM
Apr 2013

And the gay marriage verdicts from the Supremes may be the tipping point to get my husband and I out of the Georgia teabagger cesspool.

We moved to Atlanta for my familial obligations, but the security and welfare of my husband are equally important as taking care of my aging parents.

You see, in Georgia people in poverty don't have enough misery for Georgia lawmakers' tastes. So they must be punished for their sins. And kicked while they're down. And kicked in the gut again. And again.

An example of this is the state rejecting the federal dollars for Medicaid expansion. Access to healthcare literally can mean life or death to those in poverty.

But the legislators decided to pull back the boot and kick the working poor in the teeth. No healthcare for them when it would cost the state nothing.

The most tragic thing is the number of people who would benefit from a robust public sector outnumber the wealthy by a wide margin. But opposing choice and gays while clutching their guns take precedence in their lives instead of using their vote to make life a little but better for their families.

Atlanta is a liberal oasis blah blah blah. That doesn't matter, though, since the state is controlled by a massive number of rural counties. We will never have the kind of infrastructure in the city that will make it a better place to live.

On second thought, we will probsbly leave regardless of what the SCOTUS says. Life is too short to prop up the conservative establishment with my tax dollars.

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