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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDisturbing new study regarding purebred dogs
Last edited Mon Apr 1, 2013, 11:52 AM - Edit history (1)
I really don't know how to make heads or tails about this.
But if it's true (and the science behind it leads me to believe it is) it explains a lot, at least given my past experience with both purebreds and mixed breeds.
Needless to say, next time I look into getting a dog, it will not be a purebred.
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http://www.thestar.com/life/2013/04/01/purebred_dogs_lack_the_soul_of_mixed_breed_counterparts.html
Study: Purebred dogs lack the soul of mixed breed counterparts
University of Waterloo research indicates purebreds severely lacking critical emotional intelligence skills, cites genetic malformations
By: James Iha, News reporter, Published on Mon Apr 1 2013
A controversial new study recently published in The Canadian Veterinary Journal indicates that dogs that are specifically bred to owners for the purposes of representing a particular breed are staggeringly deficient in their ability to emote, express enjoyment in their lives, or otherwise relate to the needs and feelings of their owners or fellow dogs.
The study, conducted by University of Waterloo Assistant Professor of Veterinary Sociology Dr. Danny Myshrall, enlisted the help of 100 owners of recently deceased canines. Half of the participants owned mixed breed dogs of indeterminate type (colloquially known as mutts), while the other half were owners of traditional purebred dogs. Amongst the purebreds, we made sure the sample represented a wide swath along the spectrum of breeds, Myshrall explained. This included both your traditional dog breeds: Labradors, Poodles, Schipperkes, Komondoors, Redbone Coonhounds, Bouvier des Flandres, and so on. We also included the more recent trend of so-called designer breeds: Labrodoodles, Puggles, Bernedoodles, Schnooldles, Yorkie-Poos and Shih-Poos.
Owners were first asked to give researchers a psychological profile of their pet: how affectionate he or she was towards the owner, what activities (if any) stimulated the dogs attention, acts of aggression and/or dissatisfaction, eating habits, and other key personality traits of the animal. Thenwith the owners permissionthe scientists physically examined the brains of the late dogs. The results, Myshrall said, were astounding.
The purebred dog was ten times more likely than a mutt to exhibit signs of chronic ennui, lackadaisical behavior, and an overall expression of a general lack of any sense of greater purpose or meaning in its life, Myshrall said. Upon our actual dissection of the dogs brain itself, we found almost universally that the limbic system (the part of the brain responsible for emotional response and learning) was nearly half the size in purebred dogs when compared to their mixed breed counterparts.
In laymans terms, one could honestly say that purebred dogs simply do not have the same soul as one might find in a mixed breed, Myshrall continued.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)I will be watching for it.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)And the whole idea of dogs having "higher purpose" is pretty damn strange.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)bark at anything and everything...chase the kittehs...tear around the house like lunatics...and they're OK with that. They don't seem to realize they're not living up to their potential. They're not self-actualizing.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)They sound exactly like yours!
SharonAnn
(13,772 posts)Built a high-walled "box" that the cats could get into but that my small mutts couldn't get into. It seemed to be the only solution.
Now the cats have a "private bathroom".
LOL!
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)make them too nervous to go on raids down there.
4_TN_TITANS
(2,977 posts)Seriously, the stupidest dogs we have ever had were the pure breeds. Everyone one of them run over or stolen.
RockaFowler
(7,429 posts)And their attitude is all about eating, sleeping and making sure that we know they need to eat and sleep
Also Scooter has a fondness of finding rodents and killing them - that's what he was bred for anyways
Sable chases lizards - and brings me presents
And Jazzy just walks around the house barking at whatever sound she hears that morning
They know their purpose in our house. It's their house - we just rent it!!
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Recreational barking is definitely one of the least attractive features of this breed, LOL. Mine are on hair-trigger alert all day, unless they're totally dead asleep.
a kennedy
(29,644 posts)RockaFowler
(7,429 posts)I've had dogs all my life and I can't even imagine my life without the 3 of them. My kids
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)The other one has the nickname of "Possum Slayer", lots of barking and chasing and able to back it up if she manages to catch something, the only time I ever got growled at was when she thought I was trying to take a kill away from her, other than that perfectly friendly to everyone, even likes little kids (which a lot of small dogs don't, including my other one).
Watching a couple of mini doxies running after deer is quite amusing.
a kennedy
(29,644 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)A dog without a soul is disturbing, to say the least.
I'm sorry about the news.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)a kennedy
(29,644 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)I sure laughed my way through this article.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)And she doesn't dance very well, either.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)I've seen pictures of Baldguy's pup and if that pretty baby doesn't have a soul then souls simply do not exist!
I'll defer to Baldguy with regards to said puppy's dancing and rhythm sections.
Kingofalldems
(38,444 posts)Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)
Post removed
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)Why don't you dial it back a few notches? Wow.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)Insensitive to other's feelings, much like their pets.
Some people just can't handle the scientific truth.
I bet she thinks vaccines are evil, too.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)I'm not entirely convinced that the whole article isn't an april fool's joke, but even if it's true, it's still comical. At least to me it is.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)octothorpe
(962 posts)Silent3
(15,190 posts)...have these problems.
Whether the study is right or wrong, your own particular precious, loving, purebred pooch is not evidence that the study is wrong.
Edit: This is not a reply to the poster of the OP, it's to anyone else who feels the strong need to chime in with one of those predictable I-don't-get-how-studies-work responses.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)And that's proof enough for me to go mixed breed.
Silent3
(15,190 posts)...as I just updated my post to say. I'm inclined myself to believe it very likely that the excesses of breeders cause problems for dogs too.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)Purebreedding is evil.
get the red out
(13,461 posts)The purpose of life, shown to me by my Border Collie mix.
But she does seem to know our emotional state very well. One time I was upset about something and sat on the floor in the bedroom and she came up and just got in my lap, and she almost never does that, usually she will try to get me to wrestle with her if I'm on the floor. Wouldn't trade her for anything, she's our angel for sure.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)Unfortunately, purebreds apparently do not.
woodsprite
(11,910 posts)However, I do think I'd go with a definite mixed breed next time, one that shows some snuggly affection. We had a shepherd/husky/lab mix who loved it when you layed on the floor with her. She'd snuggle as close as she could get and lay her head on your arm. Wanted to be close to her people. Noelle wants to be with us, but is not a snuggly/touchy-feely dog. Both were/are very protective, but Silver was definitely a more mellow personality than Noelle is. Noelle wants to protect us from everything that is not part of our immediate family within the walls of our house. Silver was cool after she knew that you were ok with whatever it was she saw as a concern. Silver had one bad trait - she saw herself as below our cat and above our son in the pecking order. Noelle got the pecking order correct - son, cat, dog.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)Sorry to hear that.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)pnwest
(3,266 posts)My poodle is the funniest, smartest, most expressive and communicative dog I've ever met.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)...but if you ask me to take the word between a reputable institution like the University of Waterloo, and the opinion of an anonymous poster here at DU, I'm going with research science all the way.
The problem is, people always let their emotional feelings get in the way of science.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)This joke of yours stinks.
Yes, you proved that most people won't click on the link, and yes, you proved that people on DU love their dogs.
THUMBS DOWN.
byeya
(2,842 posts)in an understandable - to humans - manner.
I've only had one at a time and spend most of the day with them and do a lot of talking to them.
I don't know what research protocols the scientists used but from my experience with bullmastiffs, the first
paragraph couldn't be more incorrect in my experience.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)And that's a good thing.
Mixed breeds are the way to go in the future.
byeya
(2,842 posts)breeding circles. They dogs either are, or have been, breed perfect.
byeya
(2,842 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)Don't know if I can pull it off next year, though.
The vitriol this year was rather subdued compared to the last go-round:
http://betterment.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x9316272
byeya
(2,842 posts)You picked a great topic to raise hackles - congrats!
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)I would have to read the article to find out, but I am not going to bother, as it seems like Silly Science.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)But one must consider puppy mills as a factor as well.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Breed doesn't matter.
I also know that puppy mills / large breeders of "pure breeds" frequently do NOT socialize appropriately, and their dogs have problems.
If they didn't control for this, I roll my eyes because they are confused as to what the problem is, and puppy socialization has been identified as essential for raising 'good dogs' for decades.
csziggy
(34,135 posts)We had the same thoughts.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Those of us who actually deal with this problem (rescue/puppy mills/lack of socialization) are Not Amused.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)She doesnt give kisses though. Damn soulless purebred. Must be time to put her down.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)Who am I to argue with science?
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)My hubs calls our cat Ricki my "parasite"
csziggy
(34,135 posts)So the dogs lacked early socialization? Considering how horrific the conditions are in many of those facilities, it wouldn't be surprising if the puppies coming out of them were denied human interaction or stimulation in the first months of their lives, which could lead to a lack of emotional reaction and less ability to be as engaged as mutt puppies who more often are raised by pet lovers who play with them from very early along.
I've never interacted with puppy mill dogs, just read about them, but the home bred dogs I have met whether purebred or mutt have all been fully socialized so I doubt that being a purebred is really a factor.
In the cats I have owned, the kittens who were feral and were not socialized within the first few weeks of life were never as affectionate or easy to get along with as the kittens who were raised by a family and got human interaction from birth. That's what leads to my thoughts.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)could have provided this COMMON SENSE information. As long as they controlled for it (by having the dogs socialized the same), great.
I am guessing it wasn't a concern though.
Drat it. Now I may have to go read the article. Urk.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)Not only the inferior brain functions but also a lack of sociaization in upbringing.
Either way, it's just sad.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,661 posts)I can't find this "study" anywhere (and the page itself seems to have vanished). Not to mention that it's kind of absurd on its face. So maybe it's not worth arguing about?
tblue
(16,350 posts)Most doggies are lovey dovey. I can think of only a couple that were aloof toward me even after some amount of time, and they were purebred. But just those two.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)No link. Nothing searchable.
Just someone playing a prank on the dog lovers of DU.
Unfortunately, many of us fell for it because there are all kinds of idiots out there, and some of them would actually publish something this inane.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)And I do apologize to my good DU friend TZ for besmirching her Transparency. (Not as dirty as it sounds, folks.)
Although the Nationals still suck.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)This story was plausible as "Stupid Science" because there are idiots out there.
In case you hadn't noticed it, sometimes when you repeat a lie, people start believing it.
People who don't click on the links (like I didn't originally) casually mention things in passing.
If you wanted to play a prank, this belonged in the Lounge.
It wasn't funny.
I am disappointed in you.
UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)Gothmog
(145,086 posts)I have purebred Bearded Collies and PBGVs at my house. Beardies have a great deal of personality and so do PBGVs.
If you ever get a chance go to a herding competition and watch beardies do what they are bred to do. Watching a good beardie move sheep around a pen is a wonderful thing to behold. We have also owned a border collie. Border collies have a very different method of moving sheep around that is very efficient but not as much fun to watch.
As for puppy mills, we have bred a couple of litters of beardies and PBGVs over the years. We were very selective as to the people who got to purchase our puppies.
Autumn
(45,042 posts)His greatest purpose in life is to love me, to protect me from any size dog or person, and will go to the stove and bark at it to make me get up cook his omelette's. I can point my finger at him and say bang and he will stumble to a soft place and roll over and "die". If he wants a treat he will go to the cabinet where I keep them and bark at me, if he decides the water in his water bowl isn't fresh he will go to the refrigerator and bark at the water dispenser. When he's ready to go to bed and he thinks I'm staying up too late he will whine and rowl at me until I say lets go to bed. if I am in bed sick, no one, including my Husband is allowed to wake me up. He lives to be on my lap and he loves licking my ears.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)tabasco
(22,974 posts)Getting a pure breed dog is stupid. Get a good, healthy dog from the pound and save a life. Stop supporting puppy mills.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)My pure bred Bull Mastiff had more personality and 'soul' than many people I've known. My pure bred Cocker Spaniel is much the same and is at least as quirky as am I.
It's stuff like his that gives 'science' a bad name!
KG
(28,751 posts)i'm a min-pin snob.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)He is a 13 yr old "gigantic" Min Pin. He weighs about 22lbs. He is tall and lanky though. He is the second I have owned...My first "Killer" was the typical 10 pounder. I love this breed but they are definitely not for a novice dog owner with their personalities. If you don't know what you are doing they will take over your life!
mainer
(12,022 posts)Best line of all:
"The purebred dog was ten times more likely than a mutt to exhibit signs of chronic ennui, lackadaisical behavior, and an overall expression of a general lack of any sense of greater purpose or meaning in its life."
This was an April Fool's joke for the ages.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)Take it up with James Iha, then.
http://election.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x9316536
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)olddots
(10,237 posts)Biff is doing much better in his socialization classes and Muffy has found pleasure again in shopping and playing tennis with the other "bitches ".
Seriously mutt people have more soul there may be something to the dangers of inbreeding-- look at republicans and racist racial purity types , they always insist on pedigreed dogs & cats .
appleannie1
(5,067 posts)showed was fear. It took weeks for him to even remotely respond to us. We have had him for about 8 years and he still does not know how to play. He is a very good dog but he is just 'there'.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)And this:
http://election.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x9316
No purebred dogs nor their souls were harmed in the making of this post. Although one unfortunate DUer did have her post hidden. It's all for the best though, gives her more time to listen to her Rush records and watch Nationals baseball.
MineralMan
(146,284 posts)That's my opinion. Here's Dude, my Bagle - Beagle/Basset Hound/Whatever mix:
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)byeya
(2,842 posts)see it reside along with evolutionary psychology.
talkingmime
(2,173 posts)patricia92243
(12,595 posts)though she was a great dog for 16 years - she was no better or no worse than my purebred poodle. And I am not allergic to the poodle!!
Baitball Blogger
(46,698 posts)AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)DeschutesRiver
(2,354 posts)I know for a fact with respect to my german shorthair pointers that this isn't even remotely true for any of the many I've lived with over the decades, whether they were from a breeder directly or from a shelter or a private owner.
There are screwed up GSPs out there, which I would describe exactly as the study does. But it is the result of either breeders continuing to breed a dog when they shouldn't, or owners who screw up how they handle or train these gsps. I recognize the symptoms and won't even adopt a GSP who is acting like that, because you cannot change it usually.
But all the rest? Wonderful, amazing, funny creative dogs who learn how to read your mind. I've never seen a dog who liked to learn as much as any of my GSPs, and the only problem you could ever have is if you didn't continue to teach them new things. I believed and still do that mine taught me that dogs are capable of far far more than most humans expect of them. And I also believe that if an owner doesn't believe a dog is capable of understanding much, then the dog won't keep putting out the effort to learn much or communicate as much as it could if the owner expected more.
And I'm wagering that this is probably true for other breeds as well. I've been around/known so many dogs of many breeds in my decades that do not fit this mold that this has to be a joke/prank? Yes, there are moronic dull witted individual dogs, just like people that I meet. But all of a certain "type" that is called "purebred"? This makes no sense. I can't go read it because of my dialup, so perhaps there is something I've missed.
All I can conclude is that either the limbic system size isn't as directly related to the depth of emotional response/learning as they believe (which I doubt), or their sample size is too small to be meaningful. Or that the dogs whose limbic systems were measured were owned by owners whose expectations were low and thus the dogs never fully developed the capacity that they were born with. Or that there is a purebred breed bias, just as sometimes I see bias in the other direction. I've had mixed breeds which were also capable of much more depth and ability to learn than some people believe possible; well, that is true for any dog.
I dunno - this is just so different from my repeated experiences that I can't even take it seriously. Reminds me of the human cretins who wanted to exterminate people who are not "purebred" - this nonsense about the alleged capacity of most "purebred" beings vs. "mixed" beings is just creepy, whether one is pretending "facts" to apply it to humans they don't like or now apparently to dog breeds they don't like.
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)happy April Fools
Cleita
(75,480 posts)The mutt is far more intelligent and more skilled at dog skills than the Lab. The bigger Lab is ruled by the mutt and frankly barks at everything for no reason at all. She's just dumber than the mutt although very lovable.
BainsBane
(53,029 posts)and don't have the genetic diseases that come from inbreeding. I have a mix and she's the best dog in the entire world, so that's all the scientific study I need.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)BainsBane
(53,029 posts)I post her picture everywhere. People may be sick of it, but she's a star to me.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,318 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,856 posts)I've fostered quite a few purebreds and mixed. IMO there is no difference.
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)LOL.
Ya got me.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)They deduced, from interviews and autopsies, which dogs had more fulfilling emotional lives and "soul?" This science is not like our Earth science. Which instruments were used to measure a dog's "lack of a sense of greater purpose in its life," I wonder.
Had a wonderful mutt as a kid, but as near as we could tell, his "greater purpose in life" stayed pretty much in the usual digging/chewing/barking arenas.
We have purebreds now, and while their respective philosophies are unclear, they seem to be conquering their "ennui" through a combination of chasing armadillos in the backyard, playing with their toys and demanding equal lap and blanket space with us and and each other on the couch.
Come to think of it though, they do sleep, a LOT. Could be clinical depression.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)I'll still be able to buy soulless animals.
izzybeans
(7,180 posts)It could be the staggering difference in their socialization...a reflection of the owner.
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)I love that movie! God loves a terrier---so many great lines in that movie.
Arcanetrance
(2,670 posts)More thought. But essentially all I see on this site when it comes to dogs and certain other animals is a startling dislike of our animal brethren.
elleng
(130,861 posts)Our purebred stayed with/beside any of us who was ill, for the duration.
drm604
(16,230 posts)Although I will say that my childhood dog was an intelligent lovable mutt and the vet used to say that he was one of those dogs that did everything short of talking.
Dr. Strange
(25,919 posts)Aw, c'mon fuckin' guy!
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)Seen here in the process of conducting his research.
Either that, or trying to breastfeed it. One of the two.
beevul
(12,194 posts)We have Pomeranians. Several, in fact. Purebreds.
These tiny furballs, each of them, has more "soul" than many people I've encountered. They are all unique, and each has its own distinct personality, individual and different from any of the others. They care for each other, and for us, and they have numerous ways that they show it.
This "study" is hogwash.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)As in April Fools hogwash.
The "article" was written by the former bass guitarist for The Smashing Pumpkins. And the "study" was conducted by a white, mayonnaise loving Canadian rapper with low music video production values.
beevul
(12,194 posts)I fell for it lol.
I was just chilling with the little ones, having our typical "good morning girls" time, and read the excerpts, didn't read the thread, and it hooked me lol.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)And full of soul and life!
beevul
(12,194 posts)Baby Taffy. Shes all grown up now, and just as beautiful.
But this is the one that personally claimed me (size 11 shoe for scale lol):
That's Foxy, and she is my constant companion, where ever I go, and whatever I'm doing, around the farm here. She knows when I'm having a bad day, and gives extra loving at those times. She knows when I have some cheese even if I stash it in a paper towl and pocket it lol. She is as much of a person, as any dog I have ever encountered. I have pictures of the others somewhere but I can't find them. Its early and I haven't had my caffeine yet lol. We have 7 pommies which we share our life with (and our bed, the little bedhogs...you wouldn't think a 2 pound furball could be such a bedhog, but anyway...) an American Eskimo dog we rescued from the wilderness, and a jack russel someone dumped that we took in.
People that dump dogs make me We do dog and cat rescues, which leads to an overfull house at times, but its worth it.
Someday, we want to add one of these to the family (on the right):
The one on the left is a full size husky. On the right (no, its not a baby lol), is an Alaskan klee kai.
We really dig the Icelandic dogs and the pack environment.