General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTwo Questions
{1} Who do you think was a more honorable leader: Dick Cheney or Hugo Chavez?
{2} Why?
hlthe2b
(102,132 posts)and he even acted to help out the impoverished needing heating oil in the US and fuel in the Caribbean.
Cheney worked to improve the lot of Dick Cheney and a very tiny group of his most evil "friends", American people be damned. His lies devastated the lives and resources of countless Americans sent to fight an unnecessary war in Iraq and has added greatly to our financial difficulties of today.
I'd find it hard to view Cheney as an "honorable" anything. Chavez is far more the complex individual in my mind.
spanone
(135,795 posts)CaliforniaPeggy
(149,525 posts)Hugo Chavez was the more honorable man.
Why?
Even though Chavez certainly did dishonorable things, there is no way I would say Cheney was more honorable than he.
NO WAY.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)Hugo tried to make his country prosperous and equal for all. Cheney destroyed what was good in this country to line his pockets and that of his cronies.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)He had a mixed but largely positive record. Obviously he had some problems as well, including some things I really didn't like in the free speech area.
Then again, who doesn't look good compared to Dick Cheney? Comparing him to Obama might give a more interesting context for discussion.
Bryant
Rex
(65,616 posts)One tried to have the other 'ousted'. A few times.
Dick Cheney is the worst unofficial president we've ever had.
rurallib
(62,386 posts)and thought even the most holy had good points and bad points.
With Cheney there must be SOME good points. They are simply quite hard to find.
Maybe he had a dog he liked.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)The one good point I could think about him is that he accepted his gay daughter as she was. He did not try to change her nor did he disown her. That's the only good thing I can think of about him.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)Why? Even Hitler or Stalin would have been more honorable leaders than Dick Cheney.
jsr
(7,712 posts)And who is getting free and comprehensive healthcare while denying it to everyone?
H2O Man
(73,510 posts)thus far. No Cheney advocates willing to speak up?
mmonk
(52,589 posts)was a lying sociopath in office. I do not know how much Chavez lied or was dishonest. I do know the US tried to whip up opposition to overthrow him for economic gain for multi-national corporations. But that is the history of our country and the nations to our south.
malthaussen
(17,175 posts)Since I know neither man personally, it is difficult to assess them in terms of personal honor. Obviously, as politicians they both would lie, cheat, and steal to advance their agendas, so the only question there would be to whom, and how often. Given the fallout of Mr Cheney's lying, cheating, and stealing as contrasted with the fallout of Mr Chavez's, if we wish to equate "honor" with some Millsean estimate of "the greatest good for the greatest number," then Mr Chavez wins that one hands down.
Ultimately, that is how I would have to call it, under a very specific notion of political "honor" which seeks to evaluate the question "who benefits?" Mr Chavez robbed from the rich to give to the poor, and Mr Cheney robbed from the poor to give to the rich, and waged wars to do so even more. As I am of the poor and not the rich, naturally Mr Chavez seems the more honorable man.
Certainly Mr Chavez had problems typical of many rulers of Latin American countries: poverty, colonialism, militarism, ethnic inequality... the list goes on. And certainly he ruled a country in a region where coups and instability are the rule rather than the exception, and thus resorted to quite a lot of repression here and there in order to keep the boat afloat. In the context of a vision of ideal democracy, that sucks. In the context of regional history, more-or-less par for the course. Whereas Mr Cheney was privileged to rule in a political climate of stability and traditional freedom, and betrayed many of the principles of the constitution he swore to protect and defend to further his agenda. In that respect, I think he may be evaluated as rather more dishonorable than otherwise. And in light of the fact that he used every trick in the book to avoid serving his own country in time of war, and then 40 years later sent the rising generation into an endless bloodletting, I think his honor is tarnished even more.
In sum, while it is difficult to find in those actions of Mr Chavez of which I am aware any particular taint of unusual dishonor for his position, in the case of Mr Cheney, such taints are prominent. Now answer me one: why do you ask?
-- Mal
H2O Man
(73,510 posts)I like fun. It's ....well, fun to have fun.
Why did you ask?
malthaussen
(17,175 posts)"In order to find out."
I wondered why you had chosen such an... odd juxtaposition of characters to compare. It's kind of like comparing Castro and Nixon.
Hmmm, come to think of it, asking that question about Castro and Kennedy might be pretty fun, too!
Oh, and congratulations!
-- Mal
W_HAMILTON
(7,835 posts){1} Hugo Chavez.
{2} Because he's not Dick Cheney.
davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)Why? For simple reasons, when it comes right down to it. He stood up to the lying crooks known as Bush and Cheney. He mocked Fox news, he helped American families heat their homes. Cheney was only ever really interested in one thing - promoting the neocon agenda and making more money - okay, I guess that's two things, but you get the point.
Hugo
For one, he didn't transfer millions of taxpayer funds to enrich himself and companies such as Haliburton.