General Discussion
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Presidential Debates:
October 3 (Wednesday): on domestic policy.
October 16 (Tuesday): town meeting format.
October 22 (Monday): foreign policy.
Vice Presidential Debate:
October 11 (Thursday): domestic and foreign policy.
Long-time forum readers may recall my saying that all of life imitates the sport of boxing. Truer words have ever been uttered in human history. And, intentionally or not, the presidential and vice presidential debates offer definitive proof of this, every four years.
2012 will be historic. No matter if one is a political junkie, excited about this years contest, or if one has little interest in, or understanding of things political, presidential debates are like a good heavyweight championship bout. Almost everyone watches. More, everyone has an opinion -- which is often based upon their favorite candidate/fighter from times past.
The first debate, featuring President Barack Obama defending his title against challenger Willard Romney, takes place on Wednesday, at the University of Denver, Colorado. The moderator/referee will be PBS News Hours executive director, Jim Lehrer. The general public will be judging the bout.
D.U.s sports forum participants know that when there is a good boxing match on television, I always play host to a number of fight fans. Some are, like myself, retired boxers; others are young, amateur fighters. And still others are people who never boxed, but love the sport.
Last night -- before the HBO Boxing After Dark card -- I attended a birthday party for the lady who now serves as my editor. She is also one of my three top advisors/associates in socio-political activities. The other two include my cousin, who won numerous amateur titles in the northeast in the 1970s, and my younger son, soon to turn professional. By no coincidence, my cousin helps me train my son. More, my editor will now be working as his cut man in his upcoming fights.
The third corner man was also at the party -- he, too, left early, to watch the fights. There were about fifty people at the party, mainly school teachers and social workers (including a couple social workers who also teach/taught at the high school, college, and university level). About half of us went from a lengthy discussion of recent boxing matches, to a hilarious chat about this Wednesdays debate. Quite a few of those folks will be coming to my house Wednesday. After our evening meal, well invest an hour or so in work on a couple of local elections, including setting up a five candidate debate for one important town. And well be working on the epidemiological study of an area village ravaged by toxic industrial wastes. Then, well settle in for the presidential debate.
My house was a stage coach station in the late 1700s and early 1800s. Thus, the largest section of the ground-floor is an open area, surrounding a central chimney with three fire places and a couple of Dutch ovens. I have a television set with a 66 screen. My younger son had insisted that I purchase it a few years back, to watch boxing in high definition. It comes in mighty handy when there is a small crowd here to watch presidential debates, too!
When I post a pre-fight essay on the sports forum, I like to include not only background information on each fighter, but also a general description of what Ill be looking for during the fight. In this case, I think that were all very familiar with both President Obama and Willard Mitt Romney. Theres no need to review much about them, except for perhaps a few thoughts on their showings in their recent debate contests. So here goes:
The challenge goes into Wednesdays contest with significantly more recent debate experience. However, all of it was in the republican primaries. This will be his first date at the Big Dance -- and that arena holds far greater pressure for Willard. Also, in the context of primary debates, the truth is that Romney lost literally every debate in the 2008 contest. The 2008 primaries had far stronger candidates than the 2012 contests. And in 08. Romney couldnt beat a tired, confused John McCain.
Though there were no democratic primaries this year, we have a good idea what to expect from President Obama. In 2008, he was engaged in one of the Democratic Partys legendary primary struggles, against Senator Clinton. Im convinced that if you took only the strengths of the 08 and 12 republican fields, and combined them into a single pre-programmed candidate, that person could not compete with the skills of Clinton in 2008. Although there were several other talented candidates, the Obama vs. Clinton contest was all that mattered
..its significance in American history ranks high.
So, I expect that President Obama is going to focus on a good body-attack on Wednesday. And that is not simply an attempt to be clever by the use of a boxing term: President Obama will be looking to knock the wind out of his opponent by exposing the weaknesses and cruelty of Romneys supposed strength, domestic policy. Those infamous 47% statements are going to be slammed home, each and every time Willard attempts to deliver a sound-bite zinger. In doing so, President Obama drastically increases the likelihood of Romney, in a state of panic, attempting to over-compensate in reaction.
Finally, I find it singular that the blow-hard governor of New Jersey is raising the bar of expectations for Romney on Wednesday. Ive seen his on television twice this morning, saying that Mitts performance will absolutely and totally change the dynamics come Thursday morning. Yikes! One could think that he is looking to exploit Mitts losing campaign, in order to begin laying his own for a 2016 run.
I hope that everyone has the opportunity to enjoy this years debates. And Id appreciate hearing your predictions for Wednesday.
Your friend,
H2O Man
livetohike
(22,133 posts)ramble on and those zingers he has been memorizing will pour out of his mouth at the most inappropriate times. Like a robot with a short circuit .
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)It is as dangerous to enter the ring "over-trained" as "under-trained." The same will likely hold true on Wednesday.
DCKit
(18,541 posts)DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)Strength (as in campaign money) rarely trumps timing.
Romney is wooden. Obama has timing.
I'm seeing Liston vs Clay.
As my friend Steve says, "Life is mostly attitude and timing".
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)Cassius Clay's combined speed and timing allowed him to land harder, more meaningful shots than Liston, one of the division's legendary power-punchers. Cassius came out without a scratch on his handsome face; Sonny came out cut, bruised, and battered.
I like that! Thanks!
DCKit
(18,541 posts)Lehrer isn't going to stand for any B.S..
Dog, I'm so hoping NPR will play it live and, just in case, I'll ask the S.O. to record it to the DVR. It might be epic. Almost wish I could stick around for it, but I've got to be somewhere without TV reception, telephone, cell phone or internet access this week.
I agree. (Wish you were watching it live, and here on DU during the debate.)
Control-Z
(15,682 posts)as well as he delivered "cheesy grits" and liking cars. He always wants to say more after he delvers the approved lines. He really likes cars. And to prove it he had to add that Ann drives two Cadillacs.
If we're lucky he might sing a little Star Spangled Banner at some point.
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)Do you think that there is a good chance that Mitt will try to show that he is actually a better friend to women and minorities than is President Obama? I think that, much in the vein you mentioned, Willard will attempt to communicate this lie. And, if he does, I am confident that Barack Obama will splatter him.
Beringia
(4,316 posts)I remember when Kerry debated Bush II, that Kerry was so obviously the better candidate and yet Bush had many supporters and liked his swagger. And that Kerry should have come down harder on Bush.
I don't think Obama will be as gentlemanly as Kerry. He has grace and a peacefulness, but he will use advantages that he has to make Mitt look bad.
And I don't think Mitt has Bush II sense of playing it like being a "good ole boy". And Mitt won't be able to play off Obama very well.
So I think Obama will do well.
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)is a "gentleman," but he has an edge to him in competitive situations. I absolutely agree that President Obama will respond very differently to openings, than did Kerry in '04.
Romney's only potential advantage at the Big Dance would be to play on his business experience and his time as governor. But these are also his two weakest spots -- which really says something, considering how weak he is in everything but fund-raising. (And his fund-raising is despite the republican party's dislike of him.)
Barack Obama strikes me as someone who understands what all great fighters know: attack your enemy's strengths. That said, I'm looking forward to an entertaining night on Wednesday.
Enjoy the debates!
jsr
(7,712 posts)H2O Man
(73,528 posts)when I had the opportunity to hang out with Abbie Hoffman as he prepared to speak at an area university, he was describing a person similar to Willard Romney. My memories from that afternoon/evening are not as clear as I'd like, and so I can only paraphrase him ..... and probably not doing justice to him, because he was so funny ....
Anyhow, one person referred to the person in question as an "asshole." Abbie noted that the person lacked all the wholesome qualities of an actual sphincter. Rather, he said, the person was simply the hot air that at times passes through a sphincter.
Thus, I would say that while Mitt may forget to fart, he is nothing, if not that small passage of hot air. And the media reports that pretend he did a noble job are, in effect, the stains left by that process.
bleever
(20,616 posts)And I think Romney lacks the discipline (or sense) to resist provocation. Somewhere along the line he'll go off-script, or let his demeanor slip.
I have a friend with a very forceful personality with a political career. I keep reiterating to him that the most important part of having and wielding power is finesse. Romney has none.
Being able to deliver one's best shots with a smile is a good way to get inside the opponent's head. I remember one night, in a distant city, when I was fighting the home-town Golden Boy. He landed his best shot, and his fans were cheering. I pulled him in, and said, "Is that all you got, boy? Well, you are introuble now!" He looked me in the eye, and I gave him a big smile.
That unnerved him. To the point he began to try too hard to land something to wipe the grin off my face. Foolish move on his part. He paid the price for that.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I do hope Jim Lehrer runs around Philadelphia and drinks energy nogs with real eggs in them after taking his Geritol!
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)to be Jim Lehrer's grandfather!
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)That makes you older than DIRT!
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)I remember when dirt was born.
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)Since Romney has already announced part of his silly and insulting 'zinger' strategy, I believe the President will engage the People directly, in a sober yet reassuring manner and not indulge Romney's foolish hijinks. If Romney requires months to rote memorize "zingers", I think it's safe to say he'll go the route of Sarah Palin and provide his own answers to questions unasked by the moderator. Considering his whirling "Etch-a-Sketch" campaign, he cannot debate on his ever pivoting positions, because they can change within a single sentence.
Romney: Strange, awkward laughter. Defensiveness.
The President: Measured, calm and commanding.