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H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 02:21 AM Sep 2012

Re: Cornel West

“ Who wants to be well-adjusted to injustice? What type of human being do you want to be? “ -- Cornel West

On Friday night, my daughter had the opportunity to listen to Cornel West address a small group of college/university students. After the presentation, she got to meet with West, along with a few other socially-conscious student leaders.

Tonight, when I visited her, she told me that on the ride back from listening to West, the other students she was with said that the only weak point, in their opinions, was that West had not instructed them on exactly what tactics he wanted them to engage in. My daughter told her friends -- correctly -- that Cornel West is not the type of leader whotells others “what” to do.

If people are dependent upon some outside authority, she explained, than the Goodness of Truth had not taken root within them. I agreed. More, I know that there is nothing so harsh and cold as the Truth of Logic (or “Logic’s Truthes “). And so I am happy tonight …..happy that those students, with their young, probing minds, had the opportunity to experience conversation with a man that I consider one of the most powerful thinkers of our era.

Perhaps by coincidence -- though “coincidence” does not exist -- the night before, I took a copy of my favorite Cornel West book with me to a school board meeting. I like to arrive early to any and all public meetings; more, I value every few minutes I have to read. Hence, the book.

During the meeting, the most conservative of the school administrators noticed the book. He said that he had had the chance to listen to West speak last week. “You know,” he told me, “although I disagree with him on lots of things, he is so polite, and so well-spoken, that his intelligence forces you to think.”

Also, as we do a “book club/review” each month, the superintendent passed out copies of a book he wants all of us on the board to read. When he saw my West book, he said, “Let’s do that one next.”

I am confident that our society can not only benefit from the Power of Thought delivered by Cornel West, but that if we listen closely enough, we’ll figure out what it is we want to do. And that will define what type of people we want to be.

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Re: Cornel West (Original Post) H2O Man Sep 2012 OP
which of his books did you have at the meeting? grasswire Sep 2012 #1
"Cornel West: A Critical Thinker" H2O Man Sep 2012 #2
K&R Solly Mack Sep 2012 #3
Thanks! H2O Man Sep 2012 #10
I'm well. Hope you are too. Solly Mack Sep 2012 #14
I read his "Brother West" autobiography. Manifestor_of_Light Sep 2012 #4
Interesting. H2O Man Sep 2012 #11
Free will is...... DeSwiss Sep 2012 #5
Thank you. H2O Man Sep 2012 #21
last I checked he and his buddy Tavis goclark Sep 2012 #6
The record speaks for itself. Citizen Worker Sep 2012 #7
They might not be mistaken. PDittie Sep 2012 #8
I've yet to hear H2O Man Sep 2012 #12
You missed his rant on his seats for the Inauguration? Epic fail for him. nt msanthrope Sep 2012 #23
Party line myopia. Comrade Grumpy Sep 2012 #16
Who's your president? Their president is Obama just1voice Sep 2012 #20
"My President" - ? JackRiddler Sep 2012 #54
Nice thoughtful post Waterman malaise Sep 2012 #9
Thanks! H2O Man Sep 2012 #28
thanks for the story bigtree Sep 2012 #13
Of all the responses H2O Man Sep 2012 #29
:) bigtree Sep 2012 #30
I have a great deal of respect for Mr. West lunatica Sep 2012 #15
Right. H2O Man Sep 2012 #43
I've admired Cornell West for years proud2BlibKansan Sep 2012 #17
Cornell West? CORNEL. Pet peeve of mine, and no thread on him fails to deliver. nt msanthrope Sep 2012 #22
While I haven't H2O Man Sep 2012 #39
You are too kind. proud2BlibKansan Sep 2012 #57
My comment was H2O Man Sep 2012 #61
calling the President a “black mascot of Wall Street oligarchs and a black puppet Whisp Sep 2012 #18
That may not meet your definition of polite proud2BlibKansan Sep 2012 #24
If I had said that very same thing, I would have rightly been called a racist. Ikonoklast Sep 2012 #32
I respectfully disagree. H2O Man Sep 2012 #36
Obama self-identifies as black kwassa Sep 2012 #50
I've heard H2O Man Sep 2012 #51
Your point? kwassa Sep 2012 #52
Listen to H2O Man Sep 2012 #53
sorry, haven't the time. kwassa Sep 2012 #55
We all make choices. H2O Man Sep 2012 #56
You would do well to make your own point directly. kwassa Sep 2012 #58
Right. H2O Man Sep 2012 #60
I am interested H2O Man Sep 2012 #34
West said that around the time everyone was piling on the President Whisp Sep 2012 #41
I'm not questioning H2O Man Sep 2012 #44
I think there is a difference between asking to be told what to do, Sirveri Sep 2012 #19
Valid point. H2O Man Sep 2012 #37
I had the weirdest dream about Cornel West AngryAmish Sep 2012 #25
I would hesitate H2O Man Sep 2012 #38
I had a friend who thought she could get last minute tickets recently ismnotwasm Sep 2012 #26
Interesting. H2O Man Sep 2012 #40
We seem to have very few thinkers in our society, but Dr. West is one of them. sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #27
Agree, 100%. H2O Man Sep 2012 #45
k&r... spanone Sep 2012 #31
Thanks! H2O Man Sep 2012 #46
Wonderful! K&R n/t OneGrassRoot Sep 2012 #33
Thank you! H2O Man Sep 2012 #47
“Never forget that justice is what love looks like in public” Zorra Sep 2012 #35
Beautiful! H2O Man Sep 2012 #48
''The Goodness of Truth.'' Octafish Sep 2012 #42
Thanks, My Friend! H2O Man Sep 2012 #49
Ok. I will be the proverbial smear of shit on the shoe. bluestate10 Sep 2012 #59
I respectfully disagree H2O Man Sep 2012 #62
Cornell West. David Zephyr Sep 2012 #63
I loved your OP. Zorra Sep 2012 #64
although it may sound cliche, G_j Sep 2012 #65

Solly Mack

(90,740 posts)
3. K&R
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 03:09 AM
Sep 2012

“ Who wants to be well-adjusted to injustice? What type of human being do you want to be? “ -- Cornel West

Precisely.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
4. I read his "Brother West" autobiography.
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 03:21 AM
Sep 2012

After a while it got ridiculous.

All his friends were wonderful, his family was close-knit and supportive, his church was supportive.....it sounded like a fantasy of no conflict & no setbacks.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
11. Interesting.
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 12:00 PM
Sep 2012

While I don't know West -- other than from reading and seeing him on tv -- I'll offer a possible explanation, based upon someone I do know.

If a person reads Rubin "Hurricane" Carter's autobiography from the mid-1970s, "The Sixteenth Round," they are confronted with the anger and agony of a man who is unjustly sentenced to "triple life" for a crime he did not commit. And if that same person reads Dr. Rubin Carter's follow-up autobiography from this year, "Eye of the Hurricane," they are treated to a very different description and interpretation of his life.

Both are accurate. It's just that they were written from very different points of view.

(I still have the cassette tapes that Rube made, as an inmate, that were part of the writing process. I also had the opportunity to discuss the second book while in process. Hence, my ability to say each is an accurate reflection of who he was/is at the time.)

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
5. Free will is......
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 04:20 AM
Sep 2012

...the right to Awaken in your own good time.

- Your daughter has it right. All the answers we seek, can only be found within.......

K&R


H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
21. Thank you.
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 08:40 AM
Sep 2012

I never buy more than two cantaloupes at a time.

Beatle George's song "Within You/ Without You" remains a favorite.

goclark

(30,404 posts)
6. last I checked he and his buddy Tavis
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 04:25 AM
Sep 2012

were complaining about My President.

Unless they stop that...in this tough Race....I don't trust anything they say.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
12. I've yet to hear
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 02:21 PM
Sep 2012

Cornel West "complain" about the President. He has accurately pointed out things that the President has said that he would do and hasn't. And some things that he believes President Obama can and should do. More, President Obama said early on that he welcomed such conversation. It's a good thing, all around, and that would be especially true in times of close electoral contests -- though I don't think this election appears to being a nail-biter.

Indeed, if one wants college & university students to be active participants in today's society, then West's points are essential. One can hardly make a pro-democratic statement that claims that young folk should be good cogs, and faithfully vote once every two- or four years, without examining all the issues involved in each contest. What a horrible idea that is. No, we want active, thinking, rational participation. Too many "adults" have failed that test of citizenship. I'm mighty thankful that West continues to speak out.

 

just1voice

(1,362 posts)
20. Who's your president? Their president is Obama
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 01:48 AM
Sep 2012

Do you have a different president? Perhaps you're Canadian?

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
54. "My President" - ?
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 09:48 PM
Sep 2012

Seriously? I thought this was supposed to be a secular, representative democracy based on rational principles, not fealty to Big Leaders. Are you a Democrat or a Followercrat?

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
28. Thanks!
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 02:08 PM
Sep 2012

I think that my OPs are becoming more nice and politely thoughtful as I get older and moldier. But I am even surer that as I continue, I'll come out with a splattering of angry, hostile, and increasingly meaningless ones! (smile)

How the heck are you? What's new in your neighborhood, my Wonderful Friend?

bigtree

(85,919 posts)
13. thanks for the story
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 02:38 PM
Sep 2012

I identify very strongly with Brother West. The Truth you wrote of flows freely from Cornel's throat on the way out from his large, large heart. It ALWAYS pays to stop and experience that Truth, as Brother West lays it down so generously in front of us.

. . . I was marching in one of the anti-war protests one chilly day - a bit down the street from the White House. The had given us a permit to march pass the front gate. and I looked beside me and there he was; by himself, looking a little chilly with his trademark scarf obscuring most of his face. It hadn't been that long since he had been treated for cancer and he looked somewhat frail, but, we were marching. I know I was tired and beat, I can just imagine . . .

I struck a conversation . . .small talk about the crowd. The most substantive remarks were about the surprising and gratifying number of youth who had taken time to attend. We agreed that was the most important part of the day.

We reached the front of the WH and Jesse Jackson and Cindy Sheehan joined the march from the side by the park for the photo-op . . . I shrank back and lost my marching friend. Very memorable day, nonetheless . . .

Very nice to hear about the youth in your story. Thanks for sharing.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
29. Of all the responses
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 02:12 PM
Sep 2012

on this thread, I like your's the best. I've been thinking of how to best respond to it ...... and all I can come up with is, "Thank you"!

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
15. I have a great deal of respect for Mr. West
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 02:47 PM
Sep 2012

He has a brilliant mind without the usually accompanying conceit and disdain for lesser intelligent humans.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
43. Right.
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 08:49 PM
Sep 2012

I admire his ability to convey respect for others. It stands out, in my opinion, even more so when he is engaged in debates on television shows ..... where respect for the "opposition" is largely missing.

proud2BlibKansan

(96,793 posts)
17. I've admired Cornell West for years
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 02:54 PM
Sep 2012

As for your book club, have you read Diane Ravitch's The Death and Life of the Great American School System?

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
39. While I haven't
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 04:35 PM
Sep 2012

read it yet, I definitely will. And I am sure that I'll recommend it to the others on the board, and administrators and teachers.

Thank you. I really do appreciate the recommendation. For years now, I've found that DUers tend to recommend good boojks ..... and that the DUers who I have the most respect for tend to suggest the very best reading material. So I expect this book to be "top shelf" outstanding -- just like you.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
18. calling the President a “black mascot of Wall Street oligarchs and a black puppet
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 03:00 PM
Sep 2012

of corporate plutocrats.”


yeh, so polite and well-spoken he is.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
32. If I had said that very same thing, I would have rightly been called a racist.
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 02:28 PM
Sep 2012

West gets a pass, however, although what he said was indeed a racist comment.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
36. I respectfully disagree.
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 04:14 PM
Sep 2012

On the part about West getting a pass. First, because I don't think the comment, in context, is at all "racist." Hence, reasons 2 through 10 are not necessary.

Still, I think that to be accurate, we should refer to President Obama as brown. He's as close to white as he is black. But the wide span of public perception includes many points of view that -- sadly -- have great difficulty with brown folks, especially those with one white and one black parent. Discussing that can be difficult, due to numerous factors in our culture.

This, of course, is merely my opinion. It's based upon life experience, as well as reading and listening to Cornel West. I recognize that others, such as yourself, have just as much right to your opinions.

Peace,
H2O Man

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
50. Obama self-identifies as black
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 09:16 PM
Sep 2012

Identify him the way in which he chooses to be identified.

I don't think West's statement about Obama is at all racist. It is a stupid statement, however, and identifies West as an enemy of Obama. I have in the past, and still think West, and Tavis Smiley, practice an old and tired form of black politics that have been usurped by Obama's success. They are not handling their diminished role as self-appointed spokesmen for black America very well.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
56. We all make choices.
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 10:18 PM
Sep 2012

There are three "released" versions of the song. You would benefit from listening to each of them. But it is up to you.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
58. You would do well to make your own point directly.
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 10:47 PM
Sep 2012

John Lennon has nothing to do with this issue.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
60. Right.
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 11:46 PM
Sep 2012

Hence, I did not suggest that you read a Lennon biography. I did recommend that you listen to a specific song, for a very specific reason. You would do well to do so.

The ball is in your court.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
34. I am interested
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 02:47 PM
Sep 2012

in the context that this particular quote comes from. I have heard him say either this, or something very close, in a way that was not offensive to me.

Every President in modern times has worked for Wall Street and corporate plutocrats. The only two that even attempted to do otherwise were FDR and, to a lesser extent, JFK.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
41. West said that around the time everyone was piling on the President
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 05:08 PM
Sep 2012

and the likes of Jane Hamsher and those of her kind ruled most of the topics on DU, how Obama was a caver, do nothing President that sold us all out to Wall Street and deliberately and solo passed on the Public Option. Even the pundits that largely support the President now (msnbc) had their piece of him because it was the fashionable and easier thing to do. I remember.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
44. I'm not questioning
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 08:54 PM
Sep 2012

your memory, your sincerity, or your intelligence. I apologize if it came off sounding like I was.

I do think that it would be possible for us to hear the same statements, and interpret them in a different manner.

That a US President works for Wall Street et al is not surprising to me. If a person works for McDonalds, from janitor to manager, they work for the corporate owners. If they forget that, they lose their job. Presidents work for the corporate owners of America. That isn't to say that there is "no difference" between candidates/politicians. Indeed, the difference between Obama and Romney is the difference between sugar and shit.

Sirveri

(4,517 posts)
19. I think there is a difference between asking to be told what to do,
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 01:02 AM
Sep 2012

and being given ideas on what to do.

"I want to achieve social justice, what do I do."
It's just short form for asking the person what techniques they have identified that they think work. Some might want to become soldiers taking marching orders, but isn't that their choice to make?
It is one thing to desire to fix an identified problem, but it is useless unless one also has the tools to combat the problem and knows how and when to use those tools.

 

AngryAmish

(25,704 posts)
25. I had the weirdest dream about Cornel West
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 11:16 AM
Sep 2012

In the dream I was friends with him for years. But he would never buy lunch. I always had to do it. I woke up pissed at Cornel West.


H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
38. I would hesitate
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 04:17 PM
Sep 2012

to call that a "dream." Thus, I strongly suggest limiting your meals out with West to either breakfast or supper.

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
26. I had a friend who thought she could get last minute tickets recently
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 11:20 AM
Sep 2012

To one of his speaking engagements, I knew she wouldn't be able to-- he's extremely popular in the Seattle area, but I didn't want to shatter her hopes. She expressed her disappointment later and I just sighed with her I'd love to hear him in person. I even have the version of "The Matrix" where you can watch the movie with his analysis In the background.

But I haven't read that book, I'm going get it right now. Thank you

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
40. Interesting.
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 04:45 PM
Sep 2012

My daughter said that she was surprised that there were actually many empty seats there, when she saw him. I would expect that more often, tickets can be hard to get.

Your story reminded me of sometime from long ago. Rev. Jesse Jackson was speaking at SUCO in Oneonta. Myself and three political associates made the drive. On the way, one person was saying that Jesse was a con man, and another agreed with him. I said that he was, like each and every one of us, sad and weakly human -- but that at that time, he was doing God's work. The two then made fun of me. So I said, balancing the utmost seriousness while holding my tongue in cheek: "We will see a sign tonight."

There was a long line at the Student Union building. When we eventually were "next in line," the couple ahead of us learned that there was only one ticket left. She bought it. gave it a second thought, and then gave the ticket to me. She politely refused my offer to pay for it.

As I had drove, my three associates had no choice but to wait for me. They opted to watch Jesse's presentation on a screen in the next building. And, on the ride home, the pair who had been so negative had changed their opinion of Rev. Jackson.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
27. We seem to have very few thinkers in our society, but Dr. West is one of them.
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 11:42 AM
Sep 2012

"Who wants to be well-adjusted to injustice".

A good question. And the more that question is asked, the less likely we will be to remain a society which appears to already be far too well adjusted to injustice.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
45. Agree, 100%.
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 08:56 PM
Sep 2012

Well said. Thanks for that.

I was hoping for intelligent and thoughtful responses to my OP. There are many here. And, as always, your's stands out.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
35. “Never forget that justice is what love looks like in public”
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 03:10 PM
Sep 2012

“To be a Christian is to live dangerously, honestly, freely - to step in the name of love as if you may land on nothing, yet to keep on stepping because the something that sustains you no empire can give you and no empire can take away.”

“Since justice is what love looks like in public, you can't talk about loving folk if you're not fighting for justice.”

― 3 quotes ~ Cornel West

Looking for it is step one. Figuring it out is step two. Putting it into practice is step three.

Figuring it out is step 4...




H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
49. Thanks, My Friend!
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 09:01 PM
Sep 2012

I'm mighty proud of those four, myself.

From time to time, I like to remind my wife that my Grandfather had the last two of his 14 children while in his early 70s. She tells me to "go slam it in the car door." I'm not sure what she means by that .....

bluestate10

(10,942 posts)
59. Ok. I will be the proverbial smear of shit on the shoe.
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 10:47 PM
Sep 2012

Cornell West can't tell someone what to do because he hasn't figured that out himself. It is easy to be a complainer, making a real, tangible difference is much tougher. President Obama has long made and still is making a concrete, immediately tangible difference in people's lives. Cornell West writes books, gives speeches and at the end of it all, the people that follow him just have ideas spinning around in their head with no fucking idea of how to make those ideas into realities.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
62. I respectfully disagree
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 12:02 AM
Sep 2012

with you on your first two points, and agree with you on the third.

You aren't a shit smear on a shoe -- you are not like Paul Ryan at all.

Cornel West is in a very different position than any/every politician. I'd note that Minister Malcolm X stated that he would not run for political office, because he felt he could do more from the outside, than on the inside. Malcolm was a teacher, not a politician. West, too, is engaged in the role where he believes he can do the most good.

President Obama -- who also writes books, and who worked as a teacher -- believes he can do the most good as a politician. And almost everyone, including his strongest supporters, find one or two things, however small, that they think he could or should do differently. That's human nature.

In reality, President Obama is doing exactly what he can do -- and in the current circumstances, he could not do otherwise. For "things" to change, people must necessarily change first -- including Barack Obama, his supporters, and yes, even the Democrats and members of the Democratic Left who demand change. And, before people can change, their thinking must change -- not only the way they view the world, including politicians, but also themselves. All of humankind's great and nearly great and almost great teachers have understood this simple Truth. It was Malcolm's central message. It's the common point of all theology and philosophy. And it is, of course, exactly what Cornel West is teaching.

Yet human beings -- precisely because they are human -- resist that simple Truth. They want conditions to change, while they stay the same. Hence, the value of both West's patience, and sense of humor.

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