Why is Cuomo ok with reopening schools

[Trumpocalypse]

but not bars and restaurants?

[Ace Rothstein]

1. Because kids learning is much more important than being able to go out to eat or drink.

[Trumpocalypse]

3. Ok it's ok to risk their lives

as well as the lives of teachers and other school staff?

[Ace Rothstein]

4. Most of the teachers in our district want to be back to an in person environment.

There was an option to do in person or e-learning. They have enough parents choosing to do e-learning for one classroom of kids per grade level. There are 5 to 7 classrooms per grade level in our district so the overwhelming majority is choosing in person. We'll see how long it lasts but the e-learning wasn't actually teaching my 3rd grader anything, it was busywork.

[Dorian Gray]

50. My 3rd grader

Had tons of trouble with it too. But I’m not worried about her in the long run.

I’ve chosen hybrid, but it looks as though the school she attends will slowly roll out hybrid learning and we won’t be in the classroom until
October. Seeing as how plans keep changing, we are prepared for the potential of having to remain in distance. And the city’s barometer is 3% roi. I feel like At 2% (without an outbreak at her school) I’d be ready to flip the switch and move to at home learning.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

62. That's not what it's like in WI.

I mean, sure, I WANT to be back in-person, but that's not what should happen. E-learning isn't optimal for most students, but we can't be sacrificing lives for this.

[lindysalsagal]

2. I'm gonna go out on a limb here

and assume that we here on Du understand the value of education, especially for the young? Not to mention, daycare so parents can work.

Ok I don't want restaurants going out of business, but, yes, children and learning are the priority.

Having said that, I'm not expecting schools to remain open for long. Maybe a week: It's just not going to work, and parents are going to keep kids home.

We'll be back to zooming before october, until there's a vaccine.

[Shermann]

5. Cuomo has a metric for opening schools

As long as the state positivity rate stays under 3%, the schools can remain open. So he has a plan here with a defined metric. The WHO calls for a target of 5% - 10% here, so it is more stringent than that.

Contrast that with South Carolina's positivity rate of 16% where they are opening at the end of the month as well. Is there even a metric being employed?

Then you have whatever the hell is going on in Florida and Georgia.

[still_one]

7. Thank-you for setting the record straight. It is the districts that will still decide if they want

open, and how they want to open

They will be monitoring the situation, and as you point out as long as the rate stays under 3% they can open.

This is a very well thought out plan, better than most

[former9thward]

17. Cuomo's positivety rate is 5%.

De Blasio had wanted 3%. https://abc7news.com/reopen-schools-ny-covid-education/6359787/

[not_the_one]

42. Cuomo set goals and guidelines. If they were met, he would allow for re-openings to start.

He is living up to his word. Sort of like an ACTUAL, REAL leader.

But you can also be sure that if the rate starts going up, he will clamp down again. As he should.

[soothsayer]

6. Well the schools have to submit detailed plans about how they plan to do it safely

We’ll see what comes of that.

Link to tweet

?s=21

Link to tweet

?s=21

Andrew Cuomo
@NYGovCuomo
Every region is well below our COVID infection limit, therefore all school districts are authorized to open.

If the infection rate spikes, the guidance will change accordingly.

School districts are required to submit plans to NYS for review.

As schools reopen NYS is requiring all school districts to:

1) Post their remote learning plans & their testing/tracing plans online

2) Set dates for 3-5 discussion sessions with parents & community (prior to Aug 21)

3) Have at least one separate discussion with teachers alone

In schools as elsewhere, masks are required when social distancing is impossible.

Every student should plan to have one with them at all times.

If a student does not have a mask, the school will be required to provide one.

[still_one]

8. +++

[LizBeth]

9. He is doing it smart. ALL we are asking from Trump and republicans. Do it smart. Trump is NOT doing

it smart.

There are all kinds of measures, times in space, and ways of lowering risks being implemented. Not going to go thru it all here.

Another obvious, keeping bars closed is keep spread down, which will be another plus for everyone involved. They are in essence protecting the teachers and students by NOT getting covid. Asking a lot I know. Saving lives and helping with kids drinking without our social hours.

[Dorian Gray]

10. Because education

is essential and bars aren't?

[Trumpocalypse]

13. So it's ok risk teachers lives

but not the lives of bartenders?

[Tarc]

19. We all can't stay at home, forever.

What are parents of kids younger than 16-17 supposed to do if all the schools stay at 100% remote learning?

Most businesses have reopened by now, people need to go back to work. Not stay home while the kids toil away in Zoom chats.

[Trumpocalypse]

20. So getting everyone back to work

is more important than the lives of children and teachers? Where have I heard that before?

[Tarc]

21. It is a simple question, are you unable to think about an answer?

It's easy to sit in your armchair, making vague waves and generalizations.

So again;

A family with elementary-aged children and two parents with full-time jobs.

What
Do
They
Do?

[Trumpocalypse]

22. So it's parents who want to put

their children’s health and lives in danger?

[totodeinhere]

27. They suck it up. What if one of the children bring the virus home and it kills a parent or

a grandparent? The life of that parent is more important than any job. Protecting life is more important than anything else including the convenience of the parents.

[Tarc]

47. "They suck it up"

[totodeinhere]

48. Yes.

Suck it up. "To endure something painful, unpleasant, or otherwise dissatisfactory; to deal with or recover from some hardship or stress."

That is what they need to do in order to save lives.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

63. So when I get COVID because I have to teach so people can go work and I die, what do I do?

Or I bring it home to my wife and she dies? Or a student (or 10) in my classroom die? Or their parents die? Or their grandparents?

What
Do
They
Do?

[Tarc]

65. Learn about proper mask-wearing and social-distancing, for starters

[Cuthbert Allgood]

66. Yeah, it's that simple.

Thanks for the concern for kids and teachers going back to school in the middle of a global pandemic. It makes my heart warm.

[Tarc]

67. You're quite welcome

Education cures all.

[MrsCoffee]

73. Apparently not.

[totodeinhere]

26. It is a hardship for parents for sure. But if the chocie is between creating hardships for parents

and saving lives, I will always come down on the side of life. Life is priceless.

[Dorian Gray]

23. No and I didn't say or insinuate that....

I'm just saying that is one reason people want to get education back up and running. Here in NYC, it's a big discussion. I think schools are more important than bars. Bars are still shut. Should schools open?

I don't know the answer to that.

But if part of schools opening safely means that bars and other indoor venues that get over crowded have to remain shut to keep transmission of the virus below 1% in the city, I think that's a worthy tradeoff.

(But I wouldn't send my friends who teach or my kid into a school who had outdated ventilation systems in a place that did not wear masks. We are seeing what can be done with each individual school in the DOE here, let alone all the charters and private and parochial institutions throughout the city.)

[Trumpocalypse]

29. If schools are more important than bars

why is the health of teachers less important than bartenders?

[Dorian Gray]

34. It's not

That's a disingenuous argument. Drunk people gathered around maskless drinking alcohol in a bar vs. schools where there are social distancing guidelines and mask guidelines are two different things. And in private, parochial and public schools, teachers are being accommodated if they don't want to teach in person.

Schools are attempting to modernize their ventilation systems. Hopefully successfully. Do bars have HEPA filters? People are in bars to socialize and drink alcohol. The more alcohol consumption, the more judgment becomes fuzzy. So we would be counting tipsy people making decisions about mask wearing and social distancing? To what end?

Education is important. I think the city should make every accommodation to support the safety of the staff and children. I can't see bar owners doing that. And if a school building isn't safe to teach in, they shouldn't open. I can't see bar owners making that distinction at the expense of their bottom line.

[Trumpocalypse]

36. Tell that to teachers

who are being asked to risk their health and lives.

[Dorian Gray]

38. I'm married to a teacher

I used to be a teacher myself. About 75% of my friends are teachers. I have a kid in school. I know they're all varying degrees of nervous. But not one of them has opted out of in person yet. And every school they're working at is allowing teachers t choose distance learning if that's what they prefer.

We are in NYC. I have friends teaching in LA (they're doing distance), here in multiple boroughs, in NJ and CT. I tutor at a program that is doing distance this Fall. Schools have a threshold here where they will revert to distance in multiple circumstances. This is being thought out by each individual school. They're not throwing teachers into the classroom without masks at full capacity.

From what I see, we care immensely about the health of teachers. Schools are coming up with myriad plans to address their individual needs. Some will do distance until the October. Some will teach outside. All are reducing numbers of kids in classroom at one time. All are updating infrastructure to accommodate contactless cleaning/door opening/etc.

The UFT will have a large say in whether teachers go back. Teachers are not a monolith here. Many want to do distance. Many want to try to get back in the classroom.

[Trumpocalypse]

39. Prove that

Can you?

[Dorian Gray]

40. Meh...

I don't really care if you believe me or not.

[Trumpocalypse]

44. Thought so

If you want to know how real teachers think: https://www.instagram.com/p/CDriwxUBAN2/

[Dorian Gray]

49. I know teachers are concerned about their health

I didn’t say teachers want to go back to normal. You’re making arguments about things I’ve never said.

I HAVE argued that education is more important than bars and figuring out a safe way for teachers to go back to work would benefit society more than figuring out a safe way for bars to reopen. (In nyc. Bars are open in other places).

I don’t think teachers should accept that they need to go back into the classroom because they are heroes. They should demand safety upgrades and equipment.

You haven’t responded to any one point other than to say “you want to put teachers in danger”. That’s the last thing I want. It’s obvious you’re in this for the argument and nothing else. So enjoy the combat.

[Trumpocalypse]

51. So if education is more important than bars

Why is the health and lives of teachers and students less important than the lives and health of bartenders and waiters?

[Dorian Gray]

56. Why are supermarket cashiers

less important than bartenders? Why are doctors and nurses less important? Why are construction workers less important?

This is the game you are playing.

[Trumpocalypse]

59. All good questions

Maybe it is a game to you but not to me. It is a matter of health and life, especially children's.

[LanternWaste]

69. So you went from a sincere question in the OP...

to simply flailing about madly with widely inaccurate inferences when responses don't fit your own biases. Seems irrational... but no doubt, you'll rationalize your fallacies as something else.

[Trumpocalypse]

71. Oh there you go again

[Dorian Gray]

74. The initial question is good

and one that we are all grappling with here in NYC.

In BK, a group of principals in District 15 requested more time from the mayor to get their schools prepped.

I don't have a lot of faith that the DOE will do the work needed in schools and have the supplies needed to get things up and running safely. That's a BIG conversation, one about priorities.

But reducing the conversation to "YOU VALUE BARTENDER LIVES MORE THAN TEACHERS!!!!" is disingenuous at best.

Is the city/state/federal govt. doing all it can to make schools safe? (No.)

Should we prioritize getting children back into the classroom (Yes.)

Should we do that unsafely? (FUCK NO!)

Are NYC numbers at a threshold where, if we do things in a safe manner, we should consider gong back to school? (YES.)

Is the mayor prioritizing making public schools safe right now? (I fucking hope so.)

Will they be ready by September 10th? (Probably not!)

What can we do to get the physical structures ready? What can we do to get cleaning supplies and cleaning crews to each school? What can we do to purchase N95 masks for teachers and face shield? What can we do to hire more teachers t get smaller cohorts?


The fact that some people are struggling through those questions to prioritize education over bar openings doesn't mean we don't value teacher's lives. It means we value what they do for our kids more than anything. AND they deserve a HUGE pay raise and all the other considerations in the world.

[Yorkist]

11. That'll be because.....

......the kids education matters more than a persons desire to have a night out, and because the risk to kids is low.

And because when bars are closed, unfortunate as that is, it doesn’t prevent parents from going out to do their jobs.

[Trumpocalypse]

12. And because Teachers are more expendable

then bartenders and waiters? That doesn’t make sense.

[choie]

14. Those who think it's okay to reopen schools in NY state

obviously don't have to travel on public transportation like here in NYC.

[roamer65]

15. Schools should be online learning only for September.

Period. Nationwide.

Make the call each month.

[JI7]

16. I don't think he is saying they should be open like before

but combine home with in person. maybe a couple days of the week they can have some in person classes.

[Renew Deal]

18. Bars and restaurants are open with limited indoor seating and full outdoor seating

[Dorian Gray]

24. No indoor seating

at all in NYC. Throughout the rest of the state, it's a different matter.

[totodeinhere]

25. Because schools are essential. Bars and restaurants are not. n/t

[Trumpocalypse]

28. So it's ok to put the health and lives

of children and teachers at risk but not the lives of bartenders and waiters.

[totodeinhere]

30. No it is not OK to put anyone at risk but

It is essential that children be educated but it is not essential that people go to a bar to get drunk.

[Trumpocalypse]

31. And there are ways to educate children

without putting their lives and health in danger.

[totodeinhere]

32. Which is just what the state of New York is attempting to do.

Last edited Mon Aug 10, 2020, 02:04 PM - Edit history (1)

[Trumpocalypse]

33. Yet they are not willing to put the lives and health of

bartenders and waiters at risk. Interesting!

[Dorian Gray]

35. Waiters

have been working throughout this thing..... They're working now. Restaurants are open throughout the state. outdoor only in NYC, but waiters still working.

[Trumpocalypse]

37. Some are but not all

The issue is teachers and children who are being put at risk.

[Dorian Gray]

41. What do you think the UFT

Will choose to do?

Because they're more serious about the discussion of what is safe and what isn't and finding that threshhold than you are.

[Trumpocalypse]

45. Good for them

I wish them luck.

[totodeinhere]

43. Because as I said upthread, education is essential but going to a bar to get a drink

is not. So it's easier to close bars but not so easy to close a school.

[Trumpocalypse]

46. But the schools are already closed

The issue is why is it OK to put the lives and health of teachers and children at risk but not of bartenders and waiters.

[jmg257]

52. Bars and restaurants are open - I went to a bar on Friday. Had a bartender and everything.

Several waiters too.

But plenty of Restaurants I would definitley pass on, though - too busy, or outdoor by a highway.


It seems with the low test rate, Cuomo feels, if done right, schools can open safely.

[Trumpocalypse]

53. Where?

They are not open in NYC.

[jmg257]

54. Hudson valley - further up north too. Supposed to order food with drinks.

Must be allthat ‘phase 4’ stuff, etc.

[Trumpocalypse]

55. Cool

Things are still shut down here.

[Dorian Gray]

57. Sure they are...

if they serve food. Many are serving cheese sandwiches to comply with the restrictions.

Bartenders and wait staff are working all over the city.

There are restaurants all along Smith Street in Brooklyn that are full outside and have wait staff and the bartenders are mixing drinks.

So.....

[Trumpocalypse]

58. Not inside

As you noted only outside is open.

[Dorian Gray]

60. The staff are all working inside amongst each other.....

Where do you think they cook the food? Mix the drinks? Wash the dining equipment? Place orders? Plan the menu?


Don't they matter?

Or just the customers?

[Trumpocalypse]

61. They were re-opened to soon too

And here is from real teachers:

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

I stand with teachers, not with Betsy.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

64. Thank you. I (we) appreciate this.

The amount of hate teachers are getting online just because we don't want kids to die and want our workplace to be safe is mind boggling. That I have to see it on a liberal discussion board is confusing to say the least.

[Dorian Gray]

72. I haven't seen any hate

toward teachers here. I certainly haven't expressed any.

I have seen an attempt at discussion about how to make things safe and reasons why it's important t make education safe. They are al met with: WHY are you okay with teachers dying?

[Meowmee]

68. Imo they should all stay closed until

Covid is at a much lower percentage. You can do distance learning , or just read etc. children will
be ok. My mother taught my brother how to read at home before he ever attended school. People should be paid to stay home until it is over, if they have to work, then pay for home care etc. They may have to close again anyway when there are more outbreaks. Schools are major transmission spots for illnesses.

A lot of teachers are choosing retirement, some are afraid to criticize reopening. I have to agree with what a local teacher said- it is not realistic to expect young children to wear a mask all day and to follow social distancing rules.

[Trumpocalypse]

70. Well said nt