General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPayroll Tax Cut Most horrifying decision ever
Worse than Bush tax cuts. Worse than McConnell tax cuts.
Im an employer. It hurts twice a month to pay payroll taxes. It hurts even more to defund Social Security.
Im absolutely sick to my stomach.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Repukes have that effect on rational people.
I sure hope Dems challenge this! And I hope & trust Joe will campaign against this. He has already spoken out against gutting SS & Medicare. I hope he continues to address this!
MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)Social Security ads
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Beat it like a drum!
Of course, repuke seniors will think it's a good idea because, you know, services grow on trees & taxes are bad.
not fooled
(5,791 posts)and they deserve it, so their beloved pukes will never make cuts that hurt THEM, only those other, undeserving people.
How dumb can these people be? Dumb enough to not realize that the same people who decades ago started cutting programs that helped poor people are now coming for programs that help the middle class.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)All the while lining their own pockets with funds from cut programs! 🤬
BKDem
(1,733 posts)MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)🤬
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)When Social Security was enacted. He said he welcomed their hate!
Let us see Mitch and Lindsey embrace this. Ben Sasse has already called the EOs slop!
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)rid SS taxes if re-elected .
.
In other words, he will dismantle SS, Medicare and Medicaid (Medi-Cal).
MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)Age warfare
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Many seniors live on SS! And depend on Medicare!
MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)DownriverDem
(6,205 posts)40% of Seniors rely solely on Social Security to survive.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Then all the folks on SSDI, too!
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Very inadequate, but it's something to eek by on.
mucifer
(23,373 posts)No big social security headlines.
MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)But I keep saying that
Squinch
(50,773 posts)MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)Ive been reading all morning and if you have the source handy I would greatly appreciate your giving me a link.
LisaL
(44,962 posts)Instead of a refund you might owe the government. Because Trump's order didn't change the tax laws, only that taxes are temporarily not being paid by you.
MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)yellowdogintexas
(22,114 posts)those taxes are not deductible if you itemize. What it will do is at a minimum stunt the growth of the SocSec fund and then the fund will run out. Current beneficiaries will see their monthly payment reduced over time and eventually there will be no money.
I suspect all hell is going to break loose over this, and all these people who are doing those great videos will tear up jack
He is really cutting off his nose to spite his face because it should cause him to lose the elder vote.
MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)Last edited Sun Aug 9, 2020, 11:54 AM - Edit history (1)
Ms. Toad
(33,915 posts)Payroll taxes are functionally just like income taxes, but most people don't realize that, since the withholding is an exact match for the tax due.
Those who might recognise it are the self-employed, or tipped employees.
You owe a fixed percent of your income in FICA taxes. Your router withhold it. It matches. No reconciliation required at the end of the year.
The directive to stop withholding throws that out of whack. You still owe the taxes -the only thing that changes is that your employer didn't collect them as you owed them (and didn't pay them to the government), So come tax time, you will still owe the taxes - and will likely have to write a a 6.2% check to the IRS to pay back that extra money that was in your paycheck from Sept through December.
Trump is using this threat of a significant tax liability to coerce voters to re-elect him. If I'm elected, week make this permanent (i.e. You'll never have to pay these taxes back . . . But if you don't, Biden won't rescue you, and you get a huge tax bill.)
Biden should probably pledge to create a refundable tax credit in the amount of any taxes not withheld by this obscene move. Taxes would be owed, the credit would cover them, the credit would come from the general treasury (ensuring this stunt did not harm social security.). It would, in effect be another stimulus bill. For now, trumps order means you get another small chunk of money in each paycheck -those taxes you owe, but which are not being paid as you go. A retroactive credit means you aren't hurt by it (i.e. Never have to take $ out of your pocket to pay those taxes.)
not fooled
(5,791 posts)because that's a lot easier to play games with and cut than if the funds go directly to Social Security.
Al Gore had it right with the lockbox. Of course many 'Muricans laughed at him at the time.
pukes are talented at hiding their tracks and playing the shell game so people don't realize what they are up to.
Ms. Toad
(33,915 posts)Most people don't understand how FICA taxes work, and will spend the extra money in their paychecks for the next 3 months - not realizing that they will need to reconcile them on tax day. Those people will be hurt by Trump's gambit.
AND - what I'm talking about funding is not social security, but a tax credit to hold taxpayers harmless for Trump's campaign stunt.
's
MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)whopis01
(3,467 posts)Here is the actual order:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/memorandum-deferring-payroll-tax-obligations-light-ongoing-covid-19-disaster/
It defers until the end of the year. Presumably it is all due back then.
However, Trump has stated that if re-elected he would make it permanent.
Essentially this is an artificial way of created a large tax bill for most people in January that can only be fixed by re electing Trump.
CousinIT
(9,151 posts)from General. In fact that's what he and Obama did in 2009.
But THEY can be trusted to do that. Even though yea, it's not good to have social security money coming out of the Gen Fund - because it's easier to meddle with and cut.
TRUMP has said he'd permanently keep the cuts ie: DEFUND SOCIAL SECURITY ENTIRELY.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)What kind of crap is that.
We all get personal loans now? whether we want them or not.
Squinch
(50,773 posts)CaptainTruth
(6,546 posts)It's like our income tax payment (the due date) was deferred from April 15 to July 15. The tax is still due, & it's the same amount, the due date has just been delayed. I saw one media source say it would be due "at the end of the year."
Edit to add: This assumes Congress does nothing. Congress could cut it, or extend the deferment, but only Congress can cut it.
MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)duforsure
(11,882 posts)Unless he knows the fix is in no matter the vote counts.
MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)gordianot
(15,226 posts)We will give you a little more time but know your life belongs to us.
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)Will immediately be mired in the courts, and Congress will hammer something out on Coronavirus relief in a few days. The EOs will eventually dissipate like other Trumpian brain farts and will be formally cancelled early in the Biden Administration.
This is me putting my Nostradamus hat on, of course.
Scarsdale
(9,426 posts)and is kept there just for the purpose of destroying all entitlement programs. It has been his mission for years. He doesn't need them since he has lined his pockets for years from wealthy donors who want this, too. Until all the traitors in the gop are thrown out of their cushy positions, we will not make any progress toward universal healthcare, either. McConnell is just as much a fan of Russia as tRump is. He is partnered with a Russian oligarch in an aluminum plant in Kentucky. He is a traitor who needs to GO, along with his wife who is just as corrupt as Moscow Mitch.
MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)to pull it off
yellowdogintexas
(22,114 posts)on these social support programs. Three of the poorest counties in the nation are in KY
Scarsdale
(9,426 posts)during the oxycontin epidemic, watching a TV program. They showed a poor town in Kentucky that had low employment, and many addicts. Republican reps. were bribing people to vote gop, by handing them pills. It was wide open bribery, yet nothing was done to stop it. Mitch has people brainwashed into thinking HE will save the poor. He is as big a con artists as tRump, no doubt about that. Vile excuse for a human being. Democratic reps. need to travel the backroads in these states that insist on keeping traitors in power, and inform them what is REALLY going on. I would wager that very few of these people even know Social Security and Medicare are on the chopping block.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Lonestarblue
(9,878 posts)Trump is moving at a faster pace to dismantle everything he can touch. The virus is out of control with no end in sight, and with schools starting across the country, infections will start spreading even faster.
Riots in Portland are giving Trump an excuse to return his secret police if he chooses. Oregon also seems out of control, or if it isnt the media is portraying it that way.
Trump is doing his best to destroy the postal service to prevent mailed ballots. And who can stop him? It seems no one. We no longer have an Attorney General working for uswe have a corrupt one working against us. Congressional hearings are good, but wheres the power to remove DeJoy?
And now Trump has usurped Congresss Constitutional role as the body with sole authority for taxing and spending. The Republican Supreme Court already gave him the green light for bypassing Congress when it allowed him to use defense money when Congress refused to allocate more money for his wall. Trump set up failure in Congress by sending Mark Meadows to Congressional negotiations to ensure that they would blow up, and he was successful. Democrats may be able to file suit to stop Trumps usurpation, but how long will that take? Meanwhile SS and Medicare funds are being robbed.
Trump and his team are looking at the same polls we are. And states like Florida, Texas, and Georgia where Biden is either ahead or close are run by Republican governors. Im sure the Trump campaign is working with Republican governors to do everything they can to prevent minorities, seniors, and any other bloc that favors Biden from voting. Does anyone really believe that DeSantis will do nothing to prevent Biden being elected?
Sorry, but my pessimism has taken over this morning because I think we will have nothing but chaos until the vote in November. Having to stay at home 98% of the time and being unable to see friends and relatives is definitely getting to me!
MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)Post Office and Social Security, the sacredness of the vote. Its all on the line.
durablend
(7,416 posts)If he wins he just finishes everything off. "You voted for me suckers! Too bad so sad! No backsies!"
If he loses he just finishes everything off. "This is what happens when people vote for Democrats! Find them and KILL THEM ALL!"
shanti
(21,670 posts)You're probably right. I can see it getting VERY ugly, people with nothing to lose. I just try to take it one day at a time. Trashy reality shows help.
Fla Dem
(23,347 posts)Essentially eliminating funding for Social Security and Medicare. Senior citizens will not respond well to this. Any that are still in his cult, may finally see the error of their ways.
I do not see the rational to this. Surely some of his advisers told him this would not be viewed favorably by his followers.
MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)Also a Florida Dem. Broward County
Fla Dem
(23,347 posts)SiliconValley_Dem
(1,656 posts)and because thats the case, businesses will likely continue withholding payroll taxes as per mormal
Tommymac
(7,263 posts)This little fact needs to be spread far and wide on the Internets...Lincoln Project where are you?
Hell, Democratic Party WHERE ARE YOU?
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)Wunnerful $300 check on April 15TH!
AllaN01Bear
(17,358 posts)there are a # of his supporters living here . they always feel immune to things like this , boy are they in for a shock and so am i. if the thing wins illeagly again in nov, we all need to hit the streets .
MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)roamer65
(36,739 posts)The IRS is the last thing in the world you want on your back.
MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)roamer65
(36,739 posts)Continue deductions from paychecks and if the government refuses the payments, put them in escrow until sanity returns.
MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)Have to give ADP a heads up to ignore this EO if possible
MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)Big Blue Marble
(4,978 posts)will continue to withhold and pay the payroll tax so they will not owe it later.
Spread the word this is just another Trump scam.
MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)Just texted partners. We will ignore EO and pay.
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)ecstatic
(32,566 posts)dramatically when the money has to be paid back. Millions will owe taxes. What a nightmare!