She Was Charged With Murder After Her Baby Was Stillborn. Now California's AG Has Stepped In.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

For more than nine months, five of them during a global pandemic, a 26-year-old woman named Chelsea Becker has been sitting in Kings County Jail, under a $2 million bail, for giving birth to a stillborn baby.

Becker has been there since November, when police arrested her and prosecutors charged her with murder. The District Attorney argued that Becker’s methamphetamine addiction had caused the stillbirth, citing a 50-year-old law that civil rights advocates say was never supposed to apply to pregnant women. It has put Becker at the heart of a national debate over criminalizing fetal death.

On Friday, however, California’s Attorney General Xavier Becerra intervened. In an amicus brief to end the case against Becker, Becerra argued the prosecution’s legal interpretation would lead to “absurd—and constitutionally questionable—results.”

"We believe the law was misapplied and misinterpreted,” Becerra said in a statement about the brief. “Our laws in California do not convict women who suffer the loss of their pregnancy, and in our filing today we are making clear that this law has been misused to the detriment of women, children, and families.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/she-charged-murder-her-baby-195504272.html

[babylonsister]

1. Props to AG Xavier Becerra. Sanity

Last edited Sun Aug 9, 2020, 08:22 PM - Edit history (1)

prevails, so far.

[stopdiggin]

2. Yay!

Of course, we all understand that there are (many) jurisdictions in this country where these same charges would not only be deemed legally appropriate and sound -- but roundly applauded.
--- --- ---

[mr_lebowski]

3. That is just awful ... glad the AG has stepped in ...

It does frustrate me, however, when people who are addicted to hard drugs like meth and opioids ... don't just terminate their pregnancies. Even though I'm a recovering addict myself with a great deal of empathy, I struggle with not feeling like that's a REALLY poor decision to decide to carry.

I know why a lot of them fail to do so ... it's because they think that being pregnant is going to finally give them the impetus to get serious about getting off the stuff. It's not uncommon for parents and loved ones to concur with this assessment and encourage this sort of thinking.

Then, sadly, it turns out to not actually be enough.

This all being said, as far as I know, being a meth addict doesn't increase the chances of miscarriage all that significantly. And while the baby isn't going to feel very well the first few weeks, I'm not aware of meth use during pregnancy causing permanent damage to the baby.

UNLIKE alcohol abuse ... which we do absolutely nothing about, legally.

[LisaL]

5. Well, the fetus had toxic levels of meth in his system.

So I am assuming her meth addiction did have a role in fetus' demise.
This was going to be her third child. First two were removed from her. I am not advocating for her to be charged, but I find it hard to have any sympathy for her.

[mr_lebowski]

7. Wow. Okay, so she was REALLY bad off with the stuff then ...

I was saying that afaik meth doesn't increase miscarriage probability but if you're taking SO MUCH that you're poisoning your fetus to death, then ... that's different from what I was considering.

Guessing she is an IV user and has been abusing it for a long time.

I wonder if they know that fetus was actually killed by the meth? 'Toxic Levels' is not synonymous with 'causing death'.

I used to consume enough opioids in a day (every day) to kill a small roomful of normal people, so I'm quite sure if I'd gotten hit by a bus the coroner would've reported I had 'toxic levels of opioids' in my system. Cause I did. Just not toxic to me.

I might actually be a little bit inclined to entertain the possibility of legally punishing someone who took so much dope they literally poisoned their fetus to death. I'd have to think more about that one.

[TexasBushwhacker]

8. The article says the fetus had 5 times the lethal amount.

"Kings County Medical Examiner’s Office, which conducted an autopsy. The exam found methamphetamine in the fetus’ system, a Times report states, that amounted to more than five times the level thought to be toxic. They ruled the case a homicide."

I have very mixed feelings about this one. While I think a murder charge is inappropriate, jail is probably the next best thing to residential rehab for this poor woman. She can't use drugs there.

[NotANeocon]

10. Since said fetus -

is NOT a tiny person floating in separate living quarters but an integral part of the pregnant woman, this mean that the only organism present had 5 times the lethal amount in ALL parts of her body.

[mr_lebowski]

16. Which almost certainly means that the woman also had 5 times the 'toxic level' in her system ...

Yet she is cooling her heels somewhere as we speak.

This is specifically why I asked if the coroner declared meth OD to be the cause of death. Because these are not synonymous observations ...

If they were clearly synonymous, then the mother would be dead as well.

[LisaL]

21. Well, it sure sounds that she had years to adapt to meth.

Her fetus didn't. I think it's obvious she could have much higher levels that would kill someone that hasn't been using meth for years. Just as an alcoholic can drink so much that the levels are lethal for someone not used to that much alcohol.

[mr_lebowski]

23. Effectively the fetus had longer to adapt because it was adapting from the moment it had a brain

Presumably she was using all along in her pregnancy, she is an addict after all.

If she'd be clean all along until one day she took 5 times the toxic level, she would've died along with the fetus because her tolerance would've gone away due to the abstinence.

All I'm saying here is that making the observation that the fetus had 5 times the level of meth thought toxic is not the same thing as concluding that the fetus died from the effects of an overdose.

That being said, coroner may not even be able to tell for sure.

[LisaL]

26. An adult female and a fetus might not tolerate the same levels of drugs.

By the way this was actually to be her fourth child, not her third child. Per that opinion article, she also used meth 3 days before the stillbirth. She could have used a particularly large dose, I presume.
"Of her previous three children, two had been born with methamphetamine in their systems and were removed from her custody. (She lost custody of the third baby after officials became suspicious about her stillbirth in September.)"
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2019-11-17/baby-born-dead-meth-make-a-murderer

[mr_lebowski]

29. It's possible, sure ... I'm not sure what I've said that would make you think I think otherwise :)

I'm just saying ... what said in my last post.

I'm simply saying that they are not synonymous observations.

Do I think it's entirely possible, and in fact even highly LIKELY the baby died from an overdose? Absolutely I do.

It's also possible it developed tolerance its whole time in the womb and did not directly die from the high levels of meth.

I was curious though whether the coroner had concluded that this was the case, because I might entertain supporting legal ramifications for that outcome. Maybe. I'd have to really think about it.

I definitely would NOT without that conclusion having been reached. That's it.

Check my very first post as to how I feel about addicts not getting abortions when they become preggers. I think that they ALL SHOULD. ESPECIALLY if they've already given birth to a baby with meth in its little system previously. I mean COME ON!!!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

18. "She can't use drugs there."

Never been to prison, I see.

[mr_lebowski]

24. I would bet that unless you're very connected, it's pretty hard to maintain a daily active meth

addiction in prison.

The handful of people at the top of the proverbial food chain probably could, but not some nobody.

[NotANeocon]

11. Remember -

- toxic levels - just like "levels that incapacitate" - is a subjective measure. Just because said levels can be measured does not mean that arbitrary levels designated legally actually do measure what is claimed.

[LisaL]

13. Well, if she gave meth to said fetus after he was born, would you argue the same thing?

That meth levels five times toxic limit don't mean anything? I am not saying she should be charged with murder. But I don't feel any sympathy for her whatsoever. Again, it was going to be her third child. The older two were removed from her. Right now it looks like she is not going to trial.

[mr_lebowski]

17. After it was born would be a different scenario for all kinds of reasons ...

Most importantly, she could dose the baby without dosing herself at the same level because it's no longer part of her own system.

Also, of course, a baby is a legal person.

I also have very little sympathy for her ... my point was that if the coroner confirmed that the high levels of meth killed the fetus, I might be more inclined to penalize her legally. It may seem trivial, but saying '5 times the level thought toxic were found in it's system' is NOT the same thing as concluding that the fetus died by OD.

If it were, the woman would also be dead, because she also had '5 times the level thought toxic'.

[LisaL]

22. Again, a non-user would likely be dead with that kind of meth levels.

But not her because she had years of practice, as far as I can tell. Her fetus didn't have years of practice.

[mr_lebowski]

25. Answered in the other thread :) nt

[NotANeocon]

27. Of course the fetus had years of practice-

since it was a part of the woman and its homeostatis was controlled by the woman's systems which had those years to adapt. That's commonly seen in FAS.

Fetal death is not an accurate description here - it is fetal rejection because the body of the pregnant person rejected the fetus. There may have been many reasons for this as, there always are for spontaneous abortion. Use of foreign substances might have contributed to the rejection.

[LisaL]

28. Do you know how long gestation period for a human is?

[NotANeocon]

31. Normal hominid gestation is 40 weeks BUT

we are talking about a part of the woman and all parts have equal experience.

When the organism divides the new organism created begins its own personal experience.

Yes that IS a paradox.

[Crunchy Frog]

33. That's not how the biology works.

And biology doesn't care about your political ideology. Just ask the dead anti maskers.

[NotANeocon]

35. Actually that is EXACTLY how mammalian pregnancy works -

- no matter what language the anti-women use to cover up their attempts to assign second class status to equals.

[Crunchy Frog]

36. Whatever you say.

[mr_lebowski]

15. I think I was pretty clear in the post you're replying to that I'm aware of this concept ...

When I said I used to take a daily dose of opioids that would kill a small roomful of normal people.

This is also why I was curious about whether the coroner said that OD was the cause of death.

Because I am aware that 'toxic levels' doesn't mean what many people assume it means.

[NotANeocon]

19. Of course. I would expect you to be aware.

However those who are not professional users would not be as familiar with the fact that legal levels are arbitrary and physically meaninglesss though not legally.

[Hekate]

4. Remember this when you hear people pushing fetal "personhood" laws. There's no help for...

...the pregnant woman in them. No food to nourish the woman (and thus her fetus), no residential treatment for an addiction, if any. No increase in workplace protections against poison and disease.

Just punishment that the pregnancy did not result in a perfectly-formed 8 pound infant.

I’m glad AG Xavier Becerra took note of this sad case.

[NotANeocon]

12. Remember also that -

- only one nation in the time humans have had laws has had the temerity to create a myth of fetal personhood to control and eliminate the rights of more than 1/2 the population.

[LisaL]

14. I wouldn't count on it being treatment like.

Addicts still manage to get their hands on drugs no matter where they are.

[Crunchy Frog]

6. I'm SO glad that I'm done having kids, and that they're both boys.

This country is in the process of turning into a pregnancy police state.

[NotANeocon]

9. It has been -

- both a pregnancy and birth control police state since RvW and the science ignorers boosted the war on women and their equal rights.

[Hekate]

38. I don't think Roe vs Wade means what you think it means. Please explain how you got to the belief...

...that Roe created “both a pregnancy and birth control police state.”

You either badly garbled your sentence, or you are woefully misinformed. Before I take the time to go into my usual explanation of this landmark legislation, I would like to know what I am addressing.

[NotANeocon]

41. Well let's see!

Yes - I know the story could start with new minted doctors for women in a war with the midwives who were smarter and more knowledgeable in this area of practice, more acceptable to women, and cutting into the income of these 'superior' men.

Or we could possibly start with Sanger attempting to give women more control over their own bodies and having her work manipulated by Comstock and his henchmen.

However the SCOTUS ruling in RvW was. for those who saw their androcentric world under attack. a blow similar to Brown for racists who believed segregation would last forever.

Groups who had been bitter enemies; Roman Catholics; The nascent but growing Evangelical Christian movement; Democrats and moreso Republicans who saw opposition to abortion as a method of gaining votes; anti-feminists; etc etc; joined as partners in a single bed to prevent the destruction of their world just as Brown had done to segregation.They also set their goal of overturning Roe as the only method of preserving their society as they were certain it should be.

I could continue with the long range planning of this singularity but I expect you see where I am coming from now.

[NotANeocon]

42. Curious -

Didn't like mu reply?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

20. Absolutely shameful. Criminalizing pregnancy loss is horrifying.

[LisaL]

30. Don't worry. AG stepped in.

Sound like she will be released and can proceed with having more children. This fetus was her fourth, after all, and I fail to see why she would stop.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

32. I know, I read the article.

[Stuart G]

34. Kings County California...30 miles south of Fresno, 50 miles northeast of Bakersfield..

I never heard of it, but there it is..hit the link, and check it out.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kings+County,+CA/

[niyad]

37. We need to remember that such cases involving fetal murder are used as a justification for

Outlawing abortion.

[SharonClark]

39. Ironically, since this woman was obviously not

seeking an abortion or even using birth control.

[Hekate]

40. Yes, which is why such laws are purely punitive when applied to women, & why those of us ...

...who are in favor of the complete spectrum of women’s health care are highly skeptical of personhood laws applied to fetuses. Somehow actual support services for women and children are left out of the equation. With the legal focus on the fetus as a separate person, it becomes a slippery slope into the first trimester, and suddenly PlanB itself becomes abortion.