Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

SunSeeker

(51,378 posts)
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 01:49 AM Aug 2020

Bill Kristol: "No tax returns, no debates!"

Bill Kristol (@BillKristol) Tweeted:
There’ve been presidential debates since 1976. Candidates have released tax returns since 1976. Trump got away with not doing so in 2016, because Hillary was unwilling to make debating contingent on his doing so. Why should Biden be so accommodating? No tax returns, no debates!


34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Bill Kristol: "No tax returns, no debates!" (Original Post) SunSeeker Aug 2020 OP
I don't want Biden to take cues from Kristol, but other than that I like it... RockRaven Aug 2020 #1
There are some serious players aligning against Trump and the RNC.... OAITW r.2.0 Aug 2020 #2
Yes, who knew PatSeg Aug 2020 #25
K&R - "the enemy of my eneny..." in this moment we are aligned with those against Trump onetexan Aug 2020 #33
Why debate a spewing lying gaslighter? Really, what's the point? bullimiami Aug 2020 #3
Because with the two of them answering questions in the same forum, SeattleVet Aug 2020 #7
The contrast couldn't be clearer, already. coti Aug 2020 #8
This! BlueMTexpat Aug 2020 #10
+1 Gidney N Cloyd Aug 2020 #20
Unfortunately PatSeg Aug 2020 #26
+1 K&R - the Idiot is woefully ignorant and unfit. Biden will eat his lunch. BUT i do like the tax onetexan Aug 2020 #34
Because if someone refuses to debate, it's probably at least a 5% loss of voters Polybius Aug 2020 #16
Joe would be painted as a coward and it feeds into the "Joe is demented" thing they are pushing mucifer Aug 2020 #17
I get the point but Biden can handle it and Biden doesn't have to deal with misogyny JI7 Aug 2020 #4
I like the idea but don't think Joe will captain queeg Aug 2020 #5
But I suspect he doesn't want to debate. Laffy Kat Aug 2020 #6
I'm good with this. eom BlueMTexpat Aug 2020 #9
I think Trump wants debates--at least before there have been any. Afterward, maybe not DFW Aug 2020 #11
Guiliani had sent a letter to the debates commission asking for OnDoutside Aug 2020 #12
Personally, I like the no tax returns no debates ultimatum DFW Aug 2020 #13
I Also Want.. ProfessorGAC Aug 2020 #15
That works for me, too DFW Aug 2020 #21
I do too but I got the impression that Biden had already agreed to the OnDoutside Aug 2020 #18
I'm fine either way DFW Aug 2020 #19
The fact they're desperate to get an early debate is a strong indication OnDoutside Aug 2020 #22
I quite agree DFW Aug 2020 #23
And he'd enjoy sticking the knife into Biden, being as vindictive as OnDoutside Aug 2020 #27
Biden seems to have his own team, and I'm sure they have Trump all mapped out. DFW Aug 2020 #29
That's reassuring to know. OnDoutside Aug 2020 #30
Interesting idea and worth pushing Sherman A1 Aug 2020 #14
Hate the messenger, but the message is correct. Voltaire2 Aug 2020 #24
I want them to debate. I have no doubt that Joe would destroy him in any debate. n/t totodeinhere Aug 2020 #28
I think they should hold the debates in Yosemite National Park Poiuyt Aug 2020 #31
LOL SunSeeker Aug 2020 #32

RockRaven

(14,784 posts)
1. I don't want Biden to take cues from Kristol, but other than that I like it...
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 02:00 AM
Aug 2020

More as a poke at Trump than actual campaign policy. Biden DOES need some good face time with voters, after all.

But even getting the networks to commit to equal time blocks for speeches or long form interviews would be enough. Debating Trump in the traditional manner is the old pigeon-chess thing.

OAITW r.2.0

(23,862 posts)
2. There are some serious players aligning against Trump and the RNC....
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 02:09 AM
Aug 2020

Rubin, Boot,Krystal, Lincoln Project....the list grows everyday. They know what the real stakes are for this country.

PatSeg

(46,807 posts)
25. Yes, who knew
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 11:23 AM
Aug 2020

we would agree with people like Bill Kristol or David Frum? We truly are living in Bizarro World.

onetexan

(12,994 posts)
33. K&R - "the enemy of my eneny..." in this moment we are aligned with those against Trump
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 02:54 PM
Aug 2020

and we welcome their help, as he is their enemy as well.

I think it's an excellent idea to force the idiot to release his returns. Everybody knows Biden does not need to debate an Idiot.

bullimiami

(13,044 posts)
3. Why debate a spewing lying gaslighter? Really, what's the point?
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 02:12 AM
Aug 2020

Nothing trump says is worth any time or effort.

SeattleVet

(5,468 posts)
7. Because with the two of them answering questions in the same forum,
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 03:11 AM
Aug 2020

everyone will be able to compare and contrast, and see in a very graphic fashion which candidate is able to provide complete, concise, relevant, and lucid answers.

I don't think that tRump will come out of this looking good at all, especially once Biden starts to hit his trigger points and sore spots. He'll crumble quickly and start flailing once he gets pressed.

coti

(4,612 posts)
8. The contrast couldn't be clearer, already.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 03:13 AM
Aug 2020

Trump screws up and makes impeachable mistakes daily. It can't get any worse for him. A debate is only an opportunity for Biden to give the GOP gaffes to latch onto.

PatSeg

(46,807 posts)
26. Unfortunately
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 11:26 AM
Aug 2020

Not clearer to everybody. Some people honestly aren't paying that much attention or for some bizarre reason are undecided. I think the contrast will be very dramatic and effective.

onetexan

(12,994 posts)
34. +1 K&R - the Idiot is woefully ignorant and unfit. Biden will eat his lunch. BUT i do like the tax
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 02:57 PM
Aug 2020

returns release idea to needle the Idiot and bring it to the forefront for all Americans to see he hasn't live up to his promise of releasing them since 2015.

Polybius

(15,240 posts)
16. Because if someone refuses to debate, it's probably at least a 5% loss of voters
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 07:49 AM
Aug 2020

Imagine Trump saying that he wants to debate, or worse yet he shows up for all three debates and Biden doesn't.

mucifer

(23,374 posts)
17. Joe would be painted as a coward and it feeds into the "Joe is demented" thing they are pushing
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 07:54 AM
Aug 2020

Joe has to debate

JI7

(89,186 posts)
4. I get the point but Biden can handle it and Biden doesn't have to deal with misogyny
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 02:24 AM
Aug 2020

so he will be able to go after Trump without having to worry about people being offended he was too tough on him.

DFW

(54,059 posts)
11. I think Trump wants debates--at least before there have been any. Afterward, maybe not
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 04:44 AM
Aug 2020

I'm sure he's being coached by Fox Noise goons, who just say, "interrupt constantly and use more time than you are allowed, no one will dare stop you."

But Biden will not debate unless he is sure of moderators who are both forceful and neutral. If Trump accepts that, he'll get embarrassed so badly that he'll never agree to another one. More likely, he'll get told to complain about "bias" and call them off altogether.

Just like with elections, Republicans know perfectly well what happens when both sides have an even chance: Republicans lose.

OnDoutside

(19,908 posts)
12. Guiliani had sent a letter to the debates commission asking for
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 05:01 AM
Aug 2020

a 4th debate in early September, or the first debate to be moved up to early September, because they're now cognisant of the big increase there will be in early/mail in voting. THAT is where Joe should take a stand and say, release your tax returns and I'll consider it. Personally, I think he should let him swing for it, regardless.

DFW

(54,059 posts)
13. Personally, I like the no tax returns no debates ultimatum
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 05:07 AM
Aug 2020

The radical right will just try to spin it as Biden being too chicken, of course. But Biden can land a solid blow with "Trump promised the nation this 4 years ago. I think it's time for him to put up or shut up, and if it's shut up, I have more important things to do. We have a country that could use a little attention at the moment. I, at least, intend to give it mine."

ProfessorGAC

(64,427 posts)
15. I Also Want..
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 06:56 AM
Aug 2020

...realtime fact checking, so Biden doesn't have to spend his time calling out PINO's lies.
Let him use his time to make his points, let fact checkers point out the lies.
No tax returns, no way to check the propaganda, no debates.

DFW

(54,059 posts)
21. That works for me, too
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 10:51 AM
Aug 2020

No way Biden should let any debate turn into a freebie for Trump to regain lost ground.

And insist on microphones going dead if a candidate exceeds his allotted time by over ten seconds!

OnDoutside

(19,908 posts)
18. I do too but I got the impression that Biden had already agreed to the
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 10:31 AM
Aug 2020

current 3 debates. Wouldn't be the first time to be wrong !

DFW

(54,059 posts)
19. I'm fine either way
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 10:48 AM
Aug 2020

The Trumpanzees will find a way to hear brilliance even if Trump sings the last verse of "Rain" verbatim, and will find Biden's coherent speech to be "libbrul kommanism" even all he does is read from his iPhone directions to the nearest McDonald's.

A debate will neither impress nor sway anyone.

OnDoutside

(19,908 posts)
22. The fact they're desperate to get an early debate is a strong indication
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 10:55 AM
Aug 2020

that they know they're in trouble, and it's something Biden shouldn't agree to.

DFW

(54,059 posts)
23. I quite agree
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 11:10 AM
Aug 2020

Biden now negotiates from strength, Trump negotiates from weakness. Let's hope Biden acts like it.

No quarter. Biden must know by now that Trump would grant him none, were the shoe on the other foot.

OnDoutside

(19,908 posts)
27. And he'd enjoy sticking the knife into Biden, being as vindictive as
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 12:51 PM
Aug 2020

possible.

It's interesting to observe the strategy of the Biden campaign versus the Clinton campaign of 4 years ago, where I would have seen a lot of Clinton representatives on the MSM over the 6 months leading into the election, but beyond Simone Sanders and a couple of others there isn't the same visibility. My thought is that they are just getting out of the way of the Trump car crash, at least I hope that's what's happening !

DFW

(54,059 posts)
29. Biden seems to have his own team, and I'm sure they have Trump all mapped out.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 01:46 PM
Aug 2020

I knew several of Hillary's people and none of them are n team Biden. But Joe has been in the Senate for decades and was VP for 8 years. It stand to reason he would have his own trusted circle. He has stood down early in the face of media rock stars such as Obama and Hillary, but none stepped forward this time, so he did. As it was, he didn't jump in immediately, and as we all saw, he did one hell of a careful study of the map before doing so--more careful than some who jumped in before him, it would appear.

Joe has seen the advantage of letting his opposition crash and burn if they seem prone to doing so, and no one seems more prone to do that than Trump.

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
14. Interesting idea and worth pushing
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 06:44 AM
Aug 2020

But I don’t think debates are in the best interest of the Democrats at this point.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Bill Kristol: "No tax ret...