General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThat's between you and I
Should that drive me crazy? I hear it more and more.
How about we just retire the word "me"? Agree with I?
By the way, my punctuation in my question above is incorrect, as far as I know. Standard practice is to put the question mark inside the quotation marks, like so: How about we just retire the word "me?" Doesn't make much sense to I.
Mossfern
(2,487 posts)Or should I rephrase that to "Drives I crazy?"
Don't understand the standard placement of the question mark within the quote because "Drives I crazy" isn't a question.
Alliepoo
(2,216 posts)But I could swear that we were taught that the question mark goes outside the quotation marks.
Sanity Claws
(21,847 posts)See https://www.grammarly.com/blog/quotation-marks/
Where were you educated?
wackadoo wabbit
(1,166 posts)Unless it is part of the quoted material, the question mark goes outside of the quotation marks.
Source: I'm a former magazine editor.
wackadoo wabbit
(1,166 posts)From the CMS:
TheBlackAdder
(28,188 posts).
As a linguistics professor taught, the language can be relaxed, because as long as the message is delivered and understood clearly, in whatever garbled method, then the language was effective.
People can nit pick all day about punctuation and styles, such as the MLA which changes every year. I used to have to write papers and adapt the writing styles each year to match the current MLA guidelines. Primarily there are the APA, MLA & Chicago styles that are preferred by different academic departments. And when taking courses, some semesters I would have to write in all three styles, depending on the class and professor's preference.
In summary: Writing Styles are bullshit, and effectively a cottage industry to sell books and updates.
.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)He asked me "Do you know this?"
Did you hear him say "Screw this"?
Or at least that makes sense.
Mossfern
(2,487 posts)I remember when the first family in the neighborhood got a color TV.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)But nobody controls English. Theres no way to banish this common case error from the language.
-Laelth
Foolacious
(497 posts)for periods and commas; those always go inside the quote marks. Just between yourself and Iself.
Goodheart
(5,321 posts)You're saying this is correct:
He said "give me the money," and I happily obliged.
????
We need a new Punctuation Convention. Masks required.
Foolacious
(497 posts)And yes, it doesn't make much sense. The British and ostensibly Canadian style is to put the punctuation inside the quotes if the clause inside the quotes actually has that punctuation even if not quoted, and outside otherwise. That makes more sense. Being a dual Canadian/American, I tend to use the Canadian style (although it's begun to morph into the US style).
US & Canada:
He asked, "Will you give me the money?"
US & Canada:
Did he say, "Give me the money"?
US:
He said, "Give me the money."
Canada:
He said, "Give me the money".
Goodheart
(5,321 posts)eppur_se_muova
(36,261 posts)All quotes must be paired, and the second quote closes a clause; punctuation inside quote marks only applies to the quoted string; punctuation at the end of the sentence applies to the whole sentence.
So I would write a phrase such as:
Where the first ? indicates I am quoting a question, and the second that I am embedding the quote in my own question. Likewise with periods and exclamation marks, and in any order. Ms Turabian would not approve, but I've always disagreed on this one, and who died and made her queen anyway?
Goodheart
(5,321 posts)Makes sense to me, but I think you'd get get marks off in an English class. LOL
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)noun declensions and the nominative and accusative (objective) cases.
Imagine if we spoke Latin, and had to deal with ablative and dative cases, too.
Goodheart
(5,321 posts)TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)GoCubsGo
(32,080 posts)Because, I'm hearing "less" instances where it's supposed to be used, but isn't.
Goodheart
(5,321 posts)Goodheart
(5,321 posts)Shouldn't that be "cognition test", instead? How can a test be cognitive?
DavidDvorkin
(19,474 posts)But as for the punctuation, it depends on the country. In America, it's standard to put the question mark inside the quotation marks, but in many other parts of the English-speaking world, in this case, it would be outside because it's not part of the quotation.
wackadoo wabbit
(1,166 posts)In the U.S., the question mark goes outside the quotation marks unless the question mark is part of the quoted material.
Please see my posts upthread.
DavidDvorkin
(19,474 posts)I was thinking of commas and periods. I had to relearn where to place those when I moved to the US.
wackadoo wabbit
(1,166 posts)I can imagine what a pain it was having to relearn the American system.
The U.S. system of putting periods and commas always inside the quotation marks is highly illogical. Truth be told, I wish we'd use the more sensible convention used by the rest of the world.
ananda
(28,858 posts)If it's just one word or phrase, the quotes do not include
the whole sentence.
Backseat Driver
(4,391 posts)Here's the rules on how to use question marks; be sure to also view the link at the very end regarding terminal punctuation. I believe you used the question mark appropriately in your post because "me" is italicized as the specific word to be acted upon as the suggested action of the whole sentence.
https://www.thepunctuationguide.com/question-mark.html
BTW, there are rules about the how and when to use the idiomatic "how about" as well.
https://www.espressoenglish.net/difference-between-how-about-and-what-about/
Just between you and me, lol, just because you hear it more and more often does not magically turn using I into proper usage in that instance.
Here's a question for You, the All Powerful I." Are you part of the selfish "ME" generation that wants to abandon punctuation and grammar rules as a separatist, elite power play? Me bows to your infinite superiority in case you name me as a clandestine member of the grammar police.
I'm really just suggesting resources to back up correct usage of the question mark and asking other questions as a friend because I was once told not to use "I seen" because it was bad grammar. That friend said I'd forever be marked as uneducated. Forever after that scolding, I winced whenever I heard it used by others, among many other tabboo ways to speak; hence, my bias grows stronger about people in the same way suggested by that friend and yet most feel it rude to point out others' faults directly to their face, so I digress about whether or not you've sinned by mere suggestion of eliminating "me" from the English language, LOL! Actually, I think I'd figure out your meaning with whichever proper noun or pronoun you choose to converse or put to paper. There are far more important issues that need to be resolved where two or three gather together.
Goodheart
(5,321 posts)Caveman: "I have a new rock."
Next caveman: "That rock belongs to ME!"
Caveman: "Who the fuck is "ME"?
yellowwoodII
(616 posts)That should be "Here are the rules..."
Backseat Driver
(4,391 posts)mantis49
(813 posts)n/t
Shanti Mama
(1,288 posts)I find that people are using I where it should be me and then visa versa.
I wish my kids had learned sentence diagramming. I tried to teach me son when he was struggling with French. He eventually switched to Japanese and found it much easier!
I understand that English is a living language, evolving all the time. Still I long for "my" good old days. My mom's gold old days were related to choose instead of pick, which was what you do to fruit. And meat being cooked, not done. And Winston tastes good AS a cig should. etc
Leith
(7,809 posts)But.... if people would just form plurals withOUT a fucking apostrophe, my blood pressure would go back down to normal.
0rganism
(23,944 posts)admittedly it still bothers me a little when it happens, but my grouching on the topic made absolutely no difference to anyone.
i recommend proceeding as before, accept that it happens, just try to glean the underlying meaning and move on.
getting pissed over grammar generally doesn't help, and probably raises your blood pressure. do yourself a favor and let go. life is too short.
tblue37
(65,340 posts)My article on the issue:
"Quotation Marks: Where Do the Commas and Periods Go--and Why?"
http://grammartips.homestead.com/inside.html
Goodheart
(5,321 posts)I'm going to punctuate LOGICALLY from now, regardless of any stupid American conventions.
tblue37
(65,340 posts)DFW
(54,369 posts)I dont know when it got started. Doors fans, maybe? Jim Morrison once sang it in a song called Touch Me, and he died in 1971.
Same thing goes for using an apostrophe to form a plural. I have no idea where that came from. People who do that never learned it in any school on this planet, and yet it is very widespread. Be prepared for comments and complaints from grammar Nazis.