WTF did James Madison mean??

[intrepidity]

From this article discussing presidential pardon power:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/07/trump-commutes-roger-stone-sentence/606877/

(Nadler) told me a story about the 1788 convention where Virginia decided to ratify the Constitution. The delegates were discussing the pardon power when one of them suggested that it was too broad and should be narrowed. “What if the president engaged in a criminal conspiracy and pardoned his co-conspirators?” the delegate asked, according to Nadler. “And James Madison answered, ‘Well, that could never happen, because a president who did that would be instantly impeached.’”

Even if a president *were* impeached for doing so, it wouldn't revoke the pardon. Did Madison really say this? Was he really that naive? And "instantly" no less. He couldn't have actually said this.

Any insights, please?

[Laelth]

1. The founders assumed the impeachment power would be much stronger.

Historically, it has been a complete failure. Only three Presidents have been impeached, and none of them were removed from office by the Senate.

I don’t know whether or not Madison said what is alleged above, but I can easily imagine him thinking that impeachment would serve as a deterrent to presidential misconduct.

-Laelth

[unblock]

4. well, it did get rid of nixon.

true, nixon didn't stick around to be formally impeached and removed, but he only resigned after being told (importantly, by senators from his own party) that that was his imminent fate.

surely nixon would have served out his second term in full were it not for the power of impeachment.

[hlthe2b]

3. He (wrongly) assumed that looming impeachment would be a deterrent to Presidents corrupting pardon

and commutation system.

Yes, he did say it. He wasn't implying that impeachment would revoke a corrupt pardon, but rather that Presidents would be deterred from doing so in the first place.

Madison, for all his imagination, did not anticipate an entire enabling corrupt political party like today's Republicans.

[unblock]

5. truth is, they were revolutionaries.

they understood that no government is perfect and they couldn't anticipate or prevent every manner of corruption.

for the most part, the separation of powers concept has served us pretty well, and party unity usually didn't allow really egregious corruption until donnie.

but then, they figured that revolution was the ultimate plan b.

[abqtommy]

6. Don't forget that tRUMP doesn't operate in a vacuum. He's a product of the corrupt reTHUGS,

cultists and sPUTIN. Who woulda thunk there'd be so much corruption around?

[pansypoo53219]

7. the founders could not imagine fux gnewz.