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Thu Jul 9, 2020, 12:38 PM

Are Gorsuch and Kavanaugh now shielding themselves from impeachment?

"The guy is toast. The Senate is lost. Maybe we should pretend to be correct minded jurists?"

36 replies, 1293 views

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Arrow 36 replies Author Time Post
Reply Are Gorsuch and Kavanaugh now shielding themselves from impeachment? (Original post)
Goodheart Jul 9 OP
The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 9 #1
SoonerPride Jul 9 #2
getagrip_already Jul 9 #8
Polybius Jul 9 #23
getagrip_already Jul 9 #25
Wellstone ruled Jul 9 #16
The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 9 #19
Wellstone ruled Jul 9 #21
getagrip_already Jul 9 #26
The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 9 #27
getagrip_already Jul 9 #28
The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 9 #29
getagrip_already Jul 9 #30
grantcart Jul 9 #33
The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 9 #34
grantcart Jul 9 #36
ProudMNDemocrat Jul 9 #3
The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 9 #9
Kaleva Jul 9 #4
Goodheart Jul 9 #10
enough Jul 9 #5
safeinOhio Jul 9 #6
JCMach1 Jul 9 #7
muriel_volestrangler Jul 9 #11
irisblue Jul 9 #12
lagomorph777 Jul 9 #13
brooklynite Jul 9 #14
Goodheart Jul 9 #15
brooklynite Jul 9 #17
Goodheart Jul 9 #18
brooklynite Jul 9 #20
Goodheart Jul 9 #24
PTWB Jul 9 #32
Polybius Jul 9 #22
WhiskeyGrinder Jul 9 #31
mnmoderatedem Jul 9 #35

Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 12:39 PM

1. No, they were never in danger of impeachment.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 12:40 PM

2. +1

Unfortunately, they will be there for life.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 12:48 PM

8. Yeah, we would need a super-majority in the senate to do that......

No republican not up for re-election would agree to it after what is going to happen to collins and company (hopefully) this fall.. And there aren't enough of them up for close elections in any cycle to make a huge difference.

Of course, if he were criminally indicted on perjury charges and convicted, he might decide to resign if offered a pardon. But the gop senate wouldn't remove him, even if he were in prison and absent from the court. They wouldn't hand the seat to a dem potus under any circumstance.

There is no hook to remove a justice just because he or she is in jail (same for potus btw).

Besides, any indictment would be challenged as unconstitutional and would end up in scotus, and he would't have to recuse himself.

That's for each justice to determine is what they have always said.

Can we talk about packing the court(s) yet?

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Response to getagrip_already (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 01:52 PM

23. Even with 100 Democrats in the Senate, Gorsuch would not be impeached and removed

He hasn't done anything to warrant it. Kavanaugh on the other hand has.

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Response to Polybius (Reply #23)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 03:40 PM

25. I was only thinking of kav.... sorry.. n/t

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 01:29 PM

16. Depends on Bidens choice of AG.

or a Commission that investigates Trump Crime Syndicate and asked a Grand Jury for criminal indictments .

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Response to Wellstone ruled (Reply #16)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 01:41 PM

19. There's no evidence that either justice has done anything

even close to other acts that have resulted in the impeachment of federal judges. Only one Supreme Court justice has ever been impeached - Samuel Chase in 1803 - and he was acquitted. "After the 1800 elections, President Thomas Jefferson and the Democratic-Republicans sought to weaken Federalist influence on the federal courts. Chase's actions on the court had been accused of demonstrating bias, and Jefferson believed that Chase should be removed from office. The House of Representatives impeached Chase on eight articles of impeachment, all centering on Chase's alleged political bias. The Senate voted to acquit Chase on all counts..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Chase Most of the lower federal court judges who were impeached and removed from office had been convicted of serious felonies, usually bribery.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #19)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 01:47 PM

21. Okay,will except that premise

as of today. 2021 and beyond will be a reckoning for at least a decade for bringing Political Appointees to Justice,watch and see.

Kavanah will be Job One,he lied to Harris and that was his ticket out the door. Stick a pin in it.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #19)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 03:42 PM

26. well, there is a high probability kavanaugh lied to the senate during his confirmation hearing.....

If that is investigated and they find fire....

just saying, there is a better than even chance he lied under oath.

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Response to getagrip_already (Reply #26)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 03:43 PM

27. It will be difficult to prove and is unlikely to be investigated.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #27)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 03:45 PM

28. I wouldn't say unlikely.....

There is a blood lust growing. All it will take is a referal from the senate to the doj.... that and a dem controlled senate and doj... smov.

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Response to getagrip_already (Reply #28)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 03:49 PM

29. I don't see much of a blood lust, especially when you consider

that Kavanaugh has written or joined in a number of decisions against the Trump administration. I don't like him and I don't he should be there, but he actually isn't as bad, so far, as Thomas or Alito. If anybody ought to go it's those two.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #29)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 06:11 PM

30. everything trump touched must be undone...

fair or not. nuke it. As he sowed, so shall he reap.

But kavanaugh is a snake and can't be trusted. If he lied under oath, that is disqualifying for any judge, let alone someone who could become chief justice.........

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #19)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 06:46 PM

33. Disagree on Cavanaugh


If it is proven that he a) committed perjury and b) tampered with witnesses (apparently he sent emails coaching witnesses) he could be charged with either contempt of Congress or perjury.

He could be arrested.

He could be incarcerated, even for a short period.

I agree that there is no chance of impeaching him from the court directly but that if he was found to have committed felony perjury and obstruction he would be vulnerable if

1) It was intentional
2) material to a substantive fact
3) involved getting others to offer false testimony.

Under those circumstances he could be tried and convicted. If he was tried and convicted he could be impeached and removed and might even resign as a plea bargain.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #33)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 06:48 PM

34. If it is proved. Which will be difficult, and it is not likely to be investigated.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #34)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 07:14 PM

36. Normally difficult yo prove but in this case we know what that the evidence allegedly is


He said that Ramirez was shopping her story for personal gain and that he didn't contact anyone to lie about Ramirez but apparently there are texts doing exactly that (allegedly).

Woodward says he flat out lied about being a leak on a story. I read once that Woodward, having developed an affection for tapes records every interview.

Also when the Times declined publish it they did so only because they didn't want to violate source confidentiality not because it wasn't credible.

Lying before Congress must stop. We should have a special prosecutor investigate the obvious cases. Not arguing that we should "look until we find something" but we should not be giving passes out to cases where testimony was thought to be likely false based on known facts already in hand.

If we don't investigate Cavanaugh then we are giving permission for every SC nominee to lie going forward, every single one.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 12:41 PM

3. But Trump cannot be happy...

That they were in the majority today.

Expect Trump to tweet that Gorsuch and Kavanaugh BETRAYED him.

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Response to ProudMNDemocrat (Reply #3)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 12:50 PM

9. Exactly. Even though Gorsuch and Kavanaugh were not good choices,

they are not obligated to do favors for Trump just because he appointed them. This is why the lifetime appointment thing is actually good. We might be stuck with justices that we don't like (Alito and Thomas are actually much worse), but those justice are also not beholden to the president who appointed them and might not always toe the line. So far both Kavanaugh and Gorsuch have decided against the Trump administration in several cases. I don't expect either of them to become another Earl Warren, but it should be obvious to Trump that he can't count on their fealty. He's probably raging at Bill Barr about figuring out a way to fire them (which, of course, he can't).

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 12:42 PM

4. There's no evidence that they ever were in danger of impeachment.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 12:54 PM

10. Well, I know that, and you know that, but

I'm not one to summarily dismiss the self-serving nature of Republicans.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 12:43 PM

5. Nothing is further from their minds. NT

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 12:43 PM

6. As I was saying yesterday.

They knew he is nuts and a defeat by the SC might save the last of the Publican Party.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 12:45 PM

7. Roberts has developed an institutionalist concensus

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 01:15 PM

11. Maybe they're thinking long term - by the time they'll feel like retiring from the SC

the tide of public and corporate opinion will have shifted well away from Trump, so they've nothing to gain by making bad decisions on his behalf, and get the chance to build bridges with the SC judges they'll serve with for a long time - Roberts, Sotomayor and Kagan. Alito and Thomas might retire soon, and they see the wingnut welfare circuit still pledging fealty to Trump and think "better stay partisan".

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 01:19 PM

12. Who paid off Kegstands significant debts?

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 01:21 PM

13. More likely afraid of expansion of SCOTUS and dilution of their ungodly powers.

Plus term limits.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 01:27 PM

14. Why do you imagine they would be Impeached?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #14)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 01:28 PM

15. Huh? I don't imagine that.

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #15)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 01:33 PM

17. Your title: "Are Gorsuch and Kavanaugh now shielding themselves from impeachment?"

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #17)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 01:38 PM

18. I'm questioning THEIR imagination, not invoking my own.

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #18)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 01:42 PM

20. So, why would THEY be worried about Impeachment?

They (like everyone in Congress) knows that there won't be an attempt to Impeach anyone on the Court.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #20)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 01:59 PM

24. Because they know they shouldn't be there?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #14)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 06:13 PM

32. Leave him to his fantasy.

These folks are in no danger of impeachment and never were. They wouldn’t be if we held every single senate seat.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 01:50 PM

22. Hell no

Gorsuch never did anything to warrant impeachment anyway. He'd be acquitted 100-0.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 06:12 PM

31. Lol no.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Thu Jul 9, 2020, 06:57 PM

35. I'd hate to be the person who has to explain to trump

that you can't fire these guys.

I'm sure they had to explain it to him multiple times. Probably with sock puppets.

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