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Tue Jun 23, 2020, 10:49 AM

One Thing Leads to Another

Last edited Tue Jun 23, 2020, 12:45 PM - Edit history (1)



The West Point staggering ramp exit led to a long, incoherent ramble in Tulsa, which led to the defeated body language on the walk across the White House lawn. This led me to think about a few recent conversation with some friends and associates about Trump's mental state and physical health. I can easily sum up his mental state: Trump is, by every definition, a sociopath, and he is currently in a bitter, angry mood.

In a recent conversation, a person I know well and trust in terms of accuracy and I focused on Trump's recent behaviors. I stated that I think it fits firmly in what is to be expected of a sociopath. My friend said that this is obviously part of it, but that there is increasing concern among those in the administration, and republicans in both houses of Congress, about Trump's physical health.

I had seen a few people had suggested the ramp walk indicated Parkinson's disease, which I did not agree with. My friend said that he agreed it wasn't indicated at this time. Instead, he said that the republicans in DC were concerned that Trump has been displaying -- and not merely in one awkward attempt to walk down a ramp -- symptoms of progressive supranuclear palsy, a type of dementia that involves the gradual deterioration of the same parts of the brain that sociopathy is rooted.

There had been a thing on facebook about this after that ramp walk. I told my friend that I assumed it was wishful thinking upon anti-Trump people's part. He said three things that I found important: first, that it was people within the administration that were whispering about PSP months before the ramp walk, that I should speak to some medical experts, and that if indeed it is PSP, things will be far worse between now and January.

In the past, I would have immediately contacted a cousin who was the head of neurology at Temple, but he is no longer living. Luckily, as a result of long-term damage from boxing, and shorter-term issues from a serious brain injury, I know other medical professionals who patiently answer my questions. Thus, I focused on the two that are most responsive to my calls. Both of them, I should add, are generally non-political, a factor that prevented me from being able to keep their focus off of my issues when I was in their care.

Both said that one could never diagnose PSP without seeing a patient in person. The ramp walk alone could be related to several other factors. Both said that no one would look at Trump and say he appears to be in good health. In fact, his reportedly poor diet would be of interest to a physician, including if one were concerned about other symptoms of PSP that Trump has displayed at various times. But, at this point, PSP would be one of several "rule outs" a doctor would have in mind.

I asked one of the two if it was likely that his behaviors were simply those of an aging , over-weight sociopath under severe stress? She said that while mental health issues are not her area of study, it is one of several possibilities. She noted that from what she has seen since he entered the 2016 republican primary, his range of moods appears to be limited to paranoid, furious, and pleasure when bullying a target of his fears and anger.

She added one thing that sticks with me. The combination of sociopathy and PSP would create a synergy that would be especially dangerous to this country if Trump thought he was going to lose the November election. PSP can progress rapidly once a cluster of symptoms appear. One thing leads to another.

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Arrow 45 replies Author Time Post
Reply One Thing Leads to Another (Original post)
H2O Man Jun 23 OP
SoonerPride Jun 23 #1
H2O Man Jun 23 #5
luvtheGWN Jun 23 #13
LiberalArkie Jun 23 #14
Wounded Bear Jun 23 #2
H2O Man Jun 23 #6
niyad Jun 23 #3
H2O Man Jun 23 #7
coeur_de_lion Jun 23 #4
H2O Man Jun 23 #9
coeur_de_lion Jun 23 #25
H2O Man Jun 23 #28
malaise Jun 23 #8
H2O Man Jun 23 #10
malaise Jun 23 #11
H2O Man Jun 23 #29
malaise Jun 23 #30
H2O Man Jun 23 #32
BarbD Jun 23 #12
H2O Man Jun 23 #31
blakstoneranger Jun 23 #15
H2O Man Jun 23 #33
Hermit-The-Prog Jun 23 #16
H2O Man Jun 23 #36
Pluvious Jun 23 #17
H2O Man Jun 23 #37
calimary Jun 24 #38
malthaussen Jun 23 #18
H2O Man Jun 24 #39
Demsrule86 Jun 23 #19
H2O Man Jun 24 #40
Demsrule86 Jun 24 #43
H2O Man Jun 24 #44
Demsrule86 Jun 24 #45
CaptainTruth Jun 23 #20
H2O Man Jun 24 #41
cp Jun 23 #21
H2O Man Jun 24 #42
UTUSN Jun 23 #22
NNadir Jun 23 #23
ProfessorGAC Jun 23 #24
tblue37 Jun 23 #26
spanone Jun 23 #27
JHB Jun 23 #34
H2O Man Jun 23 #35

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 10:52 AM

1. Great and insightful post. Thank you.

Last edited Tue Jun 23, 2020, 11:52 AM - Edit history (1)

As an aside I saw The Fixx in concert last year in Oklahoma City. They were great.

I think trump may try to burn the country to the ground if he loses or thinks he will lose. He is a dangerous sociopath for sure.

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 11:44 AM

5. I always liked that song.

Nothing beats seeing a good concert!

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 12:24 PM

13. Yes. He will want to.

BUT....he cannot do it alone.

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 12:28 PM

14. I think he has been trying to do that by attempting to get Covid to kill a lot of people.

People so far are not cooperating with his indoor incubators though.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 10:53 AM

2. Ominous...

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 11:47 AM

6. Yes, definitely.

There is a lot of decay in this country. I can say that young people are giving me hope.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 10:57 AM

3. Disturbing

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Response to niyad (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 11:48 AM

7. Very much so.

I never expected to live long enough to see a time that competes with 1968.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 11:00 AM

4. Even to the untrained eye

He is desperately ill, mentally and physically.

I would take hope from your essay except I believe the GOP senate will keep him in office no matter what is wrong with him. They've had numerous chances to ditch him and they haven't done it. IMO they are pinning their hopes on vote suppression as we've seen in Kentucky.

rump might become more dangerous but nothing will be done about it.

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 11:56 AM

9. I agree.

I discussed the republicans with my old friend. He said that an example of how low they are going is this Kayleigh McEnany, the press secretary. In 2016, she was anti-Trump during the republican primaries, often noting that he was a threat to their party. Today, he said, she is worse than Kellyanne Conway, who at least complains about Trump when she is in private. But McEnany has gone beyond being an enabler, to being a cult member.

He said the only one from the House or Senate that might be willing to take a stand is Willard "Mitt" Romney, but we know that he will fold under pressure. The rest of them fear Trump, including those who like and dislike him. Their primary concern remains their own re-elections, and they will betray their oath of office and their country willingly.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #9)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 02:20 PM

25. I think they would find their elections more successful

if they ditched rump and I can't understand why they are so reluctant.

That is why I think they are counting on massive voter suppression in order to stay in power.

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #25)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 04:42 PM

28. While I agree,

we have to keep the nature of the cowards.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 11:55 AM

8. Another great post

His decline is clear as day

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Response to malaise (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 11:58 AM

10. Thank you!

Despite the danger he poses, I must admit that I took some degree of pleasure in seeing his pout-walk across the White House lawn. He knows the rally was a pathetic flop. Of course, he will only blame others.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #10)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 12:01 PM

11. That will be my lasting memory of the end

It was that night.

Given your experience, I knew you'd have access to the finest minds on these matters.

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Response to malaise (Reply #11)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 04:44 PM

29. I know it

goes against who I wish to be, but I absolutely cannot quit laughing when I see that! I'd like to be someone that never takes pleasure in anoth human being's suffering, but I just love seeing that dick-dripping acting like a spoiled child.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #29)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 04:48 PM

30. That photo is the literal unraveling

A thing of beauty - it will be the cover photo for more than a few books - and you have lots of company taking pleasure in this one.

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Response to malaise (Reply #30)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 04:58 PM

32. Yes!

My cousin has gotten both of us laughing about it several times! It's a treasure!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 12:23 PM

12. My fear is he is being backed into a corner.

Not just angry, but furious about not winning the election -- And, all those enablers surrounding him that fear their potential loss of power.

We have to watch and be wary of what things lead to another.

GOTV is our only hope.

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Response to BarbD (Reply #12)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 04:56 PM

31. I agree 100%

He is definitely more prone to unstable thinking -- hence, dangerous actions -- under pressure. And the people around him lack the character to ignore his craziest shit as a few of the original people reportedly did.

Getting out the vote is essential.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 12:32 PM

15. I think he has a severe form of arthritis!

 

You can hide it better with medication. But even then it screws with your muscle tissues and nerves. It'l make you body do things you don't want it to do. There was a guy who had it so bad his hands would curl up and close in a fist unexpectedly and there would be nothing he could do about it. He couldn't unclinch cause it would clinch back up. Only after a while his hand would go back to normal.

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Response to blakstoneranger (Reply #15)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 05:00 PM

33. Interesting.

That would definitely need to be on the list of "rule outs" a doctor would consider. Thank you.

My oldest brother had something similar as the result of a stroke. My hands do not function as they once did, as a result of the arthritis that resuled from repeated damage in boxing.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 12:39 PM

16. Another OP posted today suggested a stroke affecting the left side of his brain.

Sorry, I don't have a link.

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Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 09:51 PM

36. Right.

There are lots of "rule outs" that his doctor should be looking into. Several possibilities. I found that the experts I spoke with were able to list things I've never heard of before. But a stroke is definitely a possibility.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 12:44 PM

17. How nice they're all concerned about its health...

But how about the health of the Republic too ?!!

Great piece waterman, thanks for sharing.

Btw, your proofing missed a typo in the first sentence "lanfuage."

Cheers m8.

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Response to Pluvious (Reply #17)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 09:57 PM

37. Seriously, right?

What a bunch of cowards. I am reminded of Erich Fromm's 1973 classic, "The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness." He detailed how a sociopath, surrounded by anti-social people, can rise to power, and when they do so politically and socially, there's always a rapid, often violent decay.

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Response to Pluvious (Reply #17)

Wed Jun 24, 2020, 10:26 AM

38. Yeah. No kidding.

How about the health of the Republic? And of whatever’s left of our democracy?

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 12:57 PM

18. I agree with your doctor friends.

I am very suspicious of any long-range "diagnosis" of health, mental or physical. There is too wide a range of possibilities, and too much opportunity for observational bias, nevermind wishful thinking. I cringe a little every time some "expert" says "he's this or that."

His actions speak clearly enough to know he is a danger to society, regardless of the causes. Fortunately, to do the worst damage, he needs cooperation from many others, and he doesn't have enough leverage to get his way in most things.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #18)

Wed Jun 24, 2020, 12:06 PM

39. I tend to agree .....

with the exception of sociopathy, which generally requires an expert to have access to information well beyond what one can get from the self-reporting of an individual.

You make a great point about him not having the cooperation he needs to accomplish many of his most destructive goals. At the same time, there are no longer people in the White House/administration who dare to say no to him.

I was talking to my son last night about the November election. He was stressing that right now, our focus has to be encouraging people to prepare -- now, today -- to vote by mail in November.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 01:07 PM

19. My Dad lived almost ten years with PSP...his mind was clear...but he had difficulty walking,

speaking and swallowing...it is a terrible disease. Dudley Moore had it too; however, it was not associated with Sociopathic tendencies, and my Dad was in his right mind until the day he died. He chose to refuse antibiotics for a bacterial infection and made his wishes known to the Doctors. The first symptoms are stiffening and often seizures.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #19)

Wed Jun 24, 2020, 12:11 PM

40. Thank you for sharing

your family's experience, which had to have been painful for you. First-hand knowledge of the disease is clearly more valuable than speculation.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #40)

Wed Jun 24, 2020, 12:36 PM

43. It is a terrible disease...My Dad was treated with Parkinson drugs and anti seizure medicine.

They worked for a time...falling is often common...my Dad fought it and lived to see his Grandchildren but there came a time when he was done with it. and chose to end all treatment. We were all there at the end.

My Dad was a remarkable man and invented the first blow in insulation that was based on carbohydrates and did not contain formaldehyde. He was an engineer who retired and taught himself organic chemistry in our garage...he like most in the field was not as careful about the chemicals as he should have been and I believe there is a link to such exposure and this Palsy.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #43)

Wed Jun 24, 2020, 01:34 PM

44. That is one thing

that both doctors I spoke with said: there appear to be environmental factors associated with being exposed to toxins.

Your Dad sounds like a Good Man, and a Good Father. Again, I thank you for sharing what has to be painful to remember. I really appreciate it.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #44)

Wed Jun 24, 2020, 05:43 PM

45. Very kind of you to say that. He was a wonderful man...

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 01:15 PM

20. One of my favorite songs. And I'm mainly a rock/metal guy.


Thanks for the insightful post, & the great song.

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Response to CaptainTruth (Reply #20)

Wed Jun 24, 2020, 12:13 PM

41. It is a great song.

I had the radio on when I was writing the OP, and it seemed to be the perfect fit.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 01:27 PM

21. Thoughtful post, thank you.

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Response to cp (Reply #21)

Wed Jun 24, 2020, 12:13 PM

42. Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 01:30 PM

22. Whatever he's got, all we need to know is that he never should have inflicted himself in our lives

and that all of his enablers are at least as bad as him for not stopping him to begin with and not removing him soon after.

We've heard diagnoses since Day 1, have seen surveys and essays by hundreds of mental health professionals, and have not been able to make successful the pitiful political remedies against the odds of his political scavengers of their own power.

I read massive volumes about HITLER and the Third Reich in my adolescence, and there are millions of words more ever since, and I still view the occasional new video covering ever more nooks, crannies, and nuances of that period and that man/Adolf HITLER. And it will be for scholars and yes medical/psychological analysts to document whatever the fuck is wrong with THIS one/TRUMP - *after he's gone*.

Our predicament right now is not to diagnose him now unless it's for the useless 25th Amendment, but rather to extricate ourselves the fuck out from this jerk creep. All the current glowing polls better not burst our bubble on Election Day, because that's apparently the only way out. And we've seen how all of our "constitutional" remedies and protections and rights are not worth toilet paper.

And so are meditations on his physical, mental, and amoral/immoral conditions.

***********ON EDIT: I really shouldn't inject myself into threads if I am too contrarian for its theme, and especially if I haven't performed due diligence in studying it to be sure I can participate well. These are lessons I've never learned and why I get myself into trouble here sometimes. I don't mean to rain on other people's discussion, and discussions *do* belong to those who want to pursue them, not for others like me in this case. And I definitely don't want to argue, although I tuned in because it interested me to the point of eliciting an opinion within me (which I *could* keep to myself). So this is my opinion, and everyone is perfectly free to skip past it without argument and enjoy the thread.







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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 01:59 PM

23. Interesting. I did a quick search on Google Scholar for publications since 2019...

...and called up this paper: Safety of the tau-directed monoclonal antibody BIIB092 in progressive supranuclear palsy: a randomised, placebo-controlled, multiple ascending dose phase 1b trial (Lancet Neurology, Volume 18, Issue 6, June 2019, Pages 549-558)

...which is about a phase 1B (safety) trial of a potential treatment, which describes the symptoms as these:

Progressive supranuclear palsy is a neurodegenerative disease that causes impairments in physical function, including gait, postural stability (resulting in falls), speech, and swallowing, as well as in cognition and behaviour, such as apathy and frontal dementia.1 Individuals with the classic form of the disease, progressive supranuclear palsyRichardson syndrome, have progressive ocular motor impairments and frequent falls. Progressive supranuclear palsy imparts a substantial caregiver and economic burden; individuals with the neurodegenerative disease require a wide range of services, many of which are provided by unpaid caregivers (ie, family and friends).2 Currently, no disease-modifying therapies for progressive supranuclear palsy exist.1 Present therapeutic approaches, including levodopa, are palliative and generally provide only transient symptomatic benefit.1 Inevitably, progressive supranuclear palsy is fatal, and death occurs a median of 7·3 years after symptom onset.1,3


I haven't heard anything about frequent falls, but if it is the case that he has this disease - I'm in no way competent to judge - the good news is that he's likely die sooner rather than later.


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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 02:07 PM

24. Great Post For Two Reasons

1. It's excellently written and interesting.
2. You used a clip of one of my Top 10 all time favorite bands. Saw them twice!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 02:22 PM

26. K&R for visibility. nt

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 02:30 PM

27. ⭐️K&R⭐️

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 05:03 PM

34. It's always something. If it's not one thing, it's another.


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Response to JHB (Reply #34)

Tue Jun 23, 2020, 09:47 PM

35. Ha!

Very well done! Very good!

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